Speaker Mike Johnson embraces violence against Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff

[stevenkesslar]

Johnson denies Trump would use the military on Democrats

Sorry, Mike.  This kind of vague embrace of violence against Democrats is wrong.

Nancy Pelosi's husband almost died thanks to the deranged and unhinged rhetoric Trump and MAGA have used against her for years.  So it is wrong, wrong, and wrong to stand behind Donald Trump and defend his lies and lust for violence when he says shit about how Nancy Pelosi is "evil" and "crazy" and "Marxist."  

I'm pretty sure college educated moderate voters can read the actual words Trump used.  He did not say, "If violent leftists start to to burn down businesses on Main Street, I will call out the National Guard."  He did not say that.  He did not mean that.  Mike Johnson is a spineless worm for embracing Trump's pointed calls to violence.

The words Trump used are very specific and focused:   Communist, Marxist, Adam Schiff, Pelosi, sick, crazy.   "They're so evil."   Last I checked, Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi were not known to be violent protesters burning down buildings in San Francisco or LA.  They are respected national leaders who are about to be re-elected in landslides.

If there was any question about the impact of this kind of murderous, violent rhetoric, that ended the day a MAGA nut tried to kill Pelosi's husband.

Quote

David DePape spoke for more than an hour in which he tearfully recounted about how his political leanings went from leftist to right-wing after reading a comment on a YouTube video about former President Donald Trump.

Johnson is a moral worm for embracing yet more language promoting violence and undermining the rule of law.  Johnson is absolutely wrong in stating that this kind of sick and violent language "resonates with the American people".  This only resonates with the kind of violent MAGA supporters who beat the living shit out of cops on January 6th.

It's a perfect example of why so many Republicans and Independent conservatives can not even hold their nose and vote for Trump anymore.

[Suckrates]

48 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said:

Johnson denies Trump would use the military on Democrats

Sorry, Mike.  This kind of vague embrace of violence against Democrats is wrong.

Nancy Pelosi's husband almost died thanks to the deranged and unhinged rhetoric Trump and MAGA have used against her for years.  So it is wrong, wrong, and wrong to stand behind Donald Trump and defend his lies and lust for violence when he says shit about how Nancy Pelosi is "evil" and "crazy" and "Marxist."  

I'm pretty sure college educated moderate voters can read the actual words Trump used.  He did not say, "If violent leftists start to to burn down businesses on Main Street, I will call out the National Guard."  He did not say that.  He did not mean that.  Mike Johnson is a spineless worm for embracing Trump's pointed calls to violence.

The words Trump used are very specific and focused:   Communist, Marxist, Adam Schiff, Pelosi, sick, crazy.   "They're so evil."   Last I checked, Adam Schiff and Nancy Pelosi were not known to be violent protesters burning down buildings in San Francisco or LA.  They are respected national leaders who are about to be re-elected in landslides.

If there was any question about the impact of this kind of murderous, violent rhetoric, that ended the day a MAGA nut tried to kill Pelosi's husband.

Johnson is a moral worm for embracing yet more language promoting violence and undermining the rule of law.  Johnson is absolutely wrong in stating that this kind of sick and violent language "resonates with the American people".  This only resonates with the kind of violent MAGA supporters who beat the living shit out of cops on January 6th.

It's a perfect example of why so many Republicans and Independent conservatives can not even hold their nose and vote for Trump anymore.

But there are still enough that WILL, enough to get him ELECTED. 

[stevenkesslar]

6 hours ago, Suckrates said:

But there are still enough that WILL, enough to get him ELECTED. 

We're about to learn, aren't we?

I've been tuned out for several weeks, in part because I spent a few weeks in Chicago with my family, including a great one week hiking trip with two brothers.  So I am on overload these past few days because I am watching YouTube videos and reading lots of articles by pundits catching up with what is going on.  It is a slightly closer race right now than it was a few weeks ago.  Even though it was close then.  And you do have me worked up what is appropriately called the INSANE bullshit that passes for the Trump campaign. 

There is no way this election should be close.  But whatever happens, I do think one reason it is closer than it should be is all the unhappiness about inflation and higher prices that people feel, whether it is completely rational or not.

This new Trump call for going after "the enemy within" is a perfect example of the bullshit.  We just learned Mitch McConnell said Trump was a genuinely despicable human being. Even though he now says Republicans are all on the same team.  Kevin McCarthy ripped into Trump's asshole during the Jan. 6th attack on democracy.  But within months he was sucking his cock at Mar A Lago.  Mike Johnson owes his job to the crazies who took McCarthy out.  So he doesn't even pretend to uphold basic norms of decency anymore.  He'll just explain away a clearly fascist statement by Trump, as if Trump was really talking about protecting buildings on Main Street.  Not arresting Schiff and Pelosi because they expect Trump to uphold the law himself and not be a felon. 

Again, you are using the tight word:  This is INSANE.  And we should be calling it INSANE.

Some other scattered comments on this theme we have been working on two threads about how this election is different.   And we should not even be talking about grocery bills when one of the candidates on the ballot is a fascist whack job.

Bill Kristol, in a new interview with AB Stoddard, agrees with you.  We already worked this over on another thread.  But he argues that at this point no one in the very small camp of undecided voters is really going to change their mind because they learn something new about Kamala's housing policy.  But they may change their mind if what is drilled in during the closing weeks is that Trump is an unhinged, unchecked, dangerous threat to America.  And all you have to do is speak to lots of people in Trump's first Administration, starting with Mike Pence and lots of generals, to know that.  Our hope has to be that the 52 % of Americans who NEVER have favored Donald Trump will all vote against him.  And almost all of that 52 % will vote for Kamala Harris.  Only 47 % of voters do not favor Harris.  So it could happen.

Kristol also relayed a discussion he had with a friend who started with this: "This is really bad."  Meaning it is really bad that something like 48 % of America will actually vote for a proven raping, lying, fascism-loving, dangerous felon.  Who keeps moving his party closer and closer to rationalizing away or even defending violence and fascism.  Like Mike Johnson just did in his ugly statement above.

That said, Johnson is not wrong when he defends the fact that this insane and violent language resonates with the part of the American people who are core Trump supporters.  They clearly love the authoritarian, fascist rhetoric.  Again, this is really bad.  74 percent of Republicans and 36 % of Independents think it would be good for Trump to be dictator for one day. Only 26 % of Republicans say it would be a bad thing.  Again.  THIS IS REALLY BAD.

AB Stoddard is a bit right of center, and Kristol used to work for Dan Quayle.  It should be noted that Dan Quayle is one of the people who urged Mike Pence NOT to listen to his asshole fascism loving boss, and instead defend The Constitution.  Like Al Gore did in 2000 and Hillary Clinton did in 2016.  This reflects the fact that right now democracy doesn't even really depend on Democrats, other than the fact that they have to get out and vote.  It depends on Independents and centrist Republicans who are not natural allies of a liberal black female Democrat from San Francisco, as least as it relates to ideology or policy.  The gamble here is in part that Americans will willingly elect a woman who is beyond doubt more liberal than the average American instead of Trump.  And who excites the Democratic base. 

One final excellent point that Kristol made.  About why the last two weeks should be about trashing Trump for being the clearly unhinged and unchecked menace he is.  Kristol says Harris has been a better campaigner than Trump, running a generally better campaign.  But he thinks Trump's campaign has been better at one specific thing: paid ads, especially in swing states.  I haven't seen these ads on my own TV, since I live in California.  But here is one example that clearly shows why moderate or conservative voters could be persuaded that Kamala is too liberal for America.   This is probably a big reason the race is a little closer in swing states: 

It's worthwhile for any Democrat like me to watch that ad.  We went a bit off the rails in 2019 and 2020, when lots of Democrats were saying things like this.  Biden notably DID NOT say these things, which is why he won the nomination.  So if we don't want Donald Trump, we better clean up our act.  Harris has now learned that lesson.

So Trump has been using his money to trash Harris, in her own words.  So Harris will be smart to close by making the case that Trump is dangerous, in his own words and the words of people like Vice President Mike Pence.  It's a well documented fact now.

Poll: Voters repelled by election denial and overturning Roe — and drawn to economic proposals

I found that to be generally good news, and reflective of what @KYTOP was arguing on the Fox News threads.  Voters do want to talk about the economy, stupid.  Its good news that candidates who talk election denial, overturning Roe v. Wade, and also tariffs are losers.  Again, Harris should be and is hitting hard on all those.  

The list of six issues that over half of voters will be more likely to support a candidate who speaks up for is interesting, in order:  expand domestic oil and natural gas production, expand a federal child tax credit to $6000, deploy the military to the border, tax large corporations making record profits, restore the federal right to abortion, increase deportation of undocumented immigrants.  Three of those inherently favor Trump, and three inherently favor Harris.  I think that helps explain why the election is a toss up, if it is decided on policy. 

I've never seen the idea of an expanded federal child tax credit score so highly in polling.  I would bet if we had the crosstabs a lot of White, Hispanic, Black, and Asian working class families - some of whom support Trump - like that idea.  It also supports my view that if Democrats want to win they need to go back to what worked pretty well for Bill Clinton:  economic populism tied with cultural moderation, especially on hot button issues like immigration and whether the government should pay for prisoners to get sex changes.

One other wonky point about fascism and violence loving MAGA idiots.  You can make a half-assed argument, as this guy tries to, that all of this is very rational, actually. Trump supporters think the system is broken and favors the rich and powerful.  So why not elect an outsider who will shake the system up?  Stated that way, it kind of makes sense. 

If I wanted to give a concrete example, I'd point to 2009 and the global financial crisis.  In my telling, I would blame it on Republicans who ran EVERYTHING from 2002 to 2006 and let Wall Street do whatever toxic things they wanted to do that blew up the global economy.  But even if everyone agreed on that, Obama bailed out the banks, and none of them went to jail. Meanwhile, working class and middle class America suffered.  It's no surprise this basically helped destroy the Republican Establishment, and created an opening for Donald Trump to lead a fake peasant's revolt that failed.  If you generously assume he even tried to help peasants by cutting his own taxes and trying to take their health care rights away, because his conservative donors and supporters liked the cruel idea.

The point to me is that people who know very little about politics and rarely or never vote - the very shaky voters who Trump is absolutely counting on to win - are idiots if they think the way to solve a real problem is to give more tax cuts to billionaires.  Most informed Americans who tend to actually vote get that, as that poll shows.  And Harris should be shouting it over Brett Baier's rude interruptions, as she did.  A $6000 child tax credit would cost a lot less, and do a lot more good for struggling working class families with kids, than more tax cuts to billionaires.  Most voters get that, too.

Since I mentioned my family, I have to tell you this is hardly the worst of times, financially or politically.  My two brothers and I, who just had a blast hiking for a week. are all examples of well off guys who are financially way better off since we all voted for Biden in 2020.  But the funny part to me is that one of these brothers is a Bloomberg moderate Democrat, who really did not sit well with the idea of Bernie Sanders in 2016 or 2020.  And the other is, like our deceased Dad, a John McCain moderate Republican, patriot, and veteran.  That brother voted for Trump in 2016, because he is conservative and thought Trump would be better for the economy.  But in 2020 he went out of his way to call Trump a "megalomaniac" and proudly vote for Biden.  Now, like many centrist college educated Republicans, he is voting for Harris.  He despises Trump.

So two things, as the guy that has always been the Clintonian Democrat in my family with perceived leftwing tendencies.  Thank you, Donald Trump, for radicalizing my brothers.  Now I almost sound like the moderate by comparison.  And both of my brothers are way more engaged in politics than they have ever been.  And they are very committed to the idea that Harris has to win, and we have to move on from this bullshit. 

The prize at the end of this that is possible is some kind of meeting in the middle:  a new centrism that is based on patriotism and the rule of law and values that are more centrist and common than anything else.  If Harris wins and is the one leading that, it will be left of center.  But if most Americans are like my brothers, they are not going to stand back and let Trump win.  

That which does not kill us makes us stronger.

 

[Suckrates]

Trump supporters and potential Trump voters are finding his increasingly erratic and Insane behavior and language Amusing.   They like how hard he is hitting Kamala and the Dems, and the more he does it, the more they egg him on to get even worse.   It appears the entire slice of Trump Americana is in lock step to "own the Libs" this time around, and I really fear for the country if Trump loses, what these people will do this time....Its a truly dangerous and unknown  situation, and the Israel/Iran situation is making things worse, because people are using Bidens bad unwavering decisions on Israel as their excuse to NOT vote for Harris, especially the younger voters....They still see Kamala as an extension of Biden, and she hasnt done enough to distance herself from Biden policy decisions on the war that are unfavorable.    That could sink HER.  

Four more years of Trump sickens and frightens me, and even if he drops dead early into his term, then we are stuck with lunatic Vance, who is a younger, smarter, MORE dangerous and hateful person than Trump. 

I better apply for my Canadian Visa and start researching housing real soon..... 

[stevenkesslar]

4 hours ago, Suckrates said:

Trump supporters and potential Trump voters are finding his increasingly erratic and Insane behavior and language Amusing. 

It actually is amusing, in two ways.  "Eating dogs and cats" is amusing in that it really does make Trump sound like an idiot and freak.  Some of the other slightly more subtle things - if you can call vague threats to arrest Schiff and Pelosi subtle - are easy for me to take as dark humor in a Quentin Tarantino sort of way.  You can imagine how funny it would be if all the Democrats in Congress were burned to death alive in a theater, like the Nazis in Inglorious Bastards.  Or Nancy Pelosi being strung upside down naked in a barn.  Very Tarantino.  It's all kind of weirdly funny.  Until someone actually tries to kill Pelosi or her husband.

And then the third way it is amusing is you again have to wonder whether this is all just a sick joke Trump and MAGA are pulling on themselves, to their detriment.  Like when and how did Trump win in 2018?  Did calling defeated House Republican Mia Love someone who "gave me no love" take away all the Republican losses?  Did beating the shit out of cops and calling it "a day of love" in January 2021 mean Trump was POTUS from 2021 to now?  Did backing some idiot Black dude in Georgia who talked about horny cows in pastures get Warnock beaten in 2022?  When has this worked?  When did election denier Kari Lake get elected because she denied an election?  Where is the actual win?

Part of my catch up diet includes a double dose of Mark Halperin.  So this is an interesting recent 20 minute interview of him with Michael Smerconish.  At 15:30 they have this brief discussion about how this is not erratic and insane rhetoric.  It is calculated theater and entertainment that somehow gives Trump access to voters who don't answer pollsters but manage to show up and surprise on election day.  And these are people who are cynics and losers to a large degree.  They think politics is flawed and crooked, and they just want Trump to burn the fucker down.  Why would they give a shit if some cop gets her jaw broken?  It was her own damn fault for carrying a gun and protecting RINOs who don't understand cop beaters were just there for their "day of love".

I get the concept.  And the proof of theory is that everyone is worried shitless that if Trump outperforms the polls by 3 or 4 or 5 points again because the crazies come out in droves, like in some of those swing states in 2016 and 2020, he wins.  But the other proof of theory is that except in 2016, when he ran a real insurgent campaign that was felt and seen as a real insurgency, this shit deeply alienates the majority of voters.  It is very well documented that about 52 % of Americans will vote AGAINST this fucked up nonsense EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.  Like 2018.  And 2020.  And 2022.  And 2023.  And already multiple times in 2024.

When does this actually work?  Is Trump just pulling a joke on himself?  Because that would be extremely funny, seeing what an actual dumb fuck and despicable moron he is.

[Suckrates]

5 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

It actually is amusing, in two ways.  "Eating dogs and cats" is amusing in that it really does make Trump sound like an idiot and freak.  Some of the other slightly more subtle things - if you can call vague threats to arrest Schiff and Pelosi subtle - are easy for me to take as dark humor in a Quentin Tarantino sort of way.  You can imagine how funny it would be if all the Democrats in Congress were burned to death alive in a theater, like the Nazis in Inglorious Bastards.  Or Nancy Pelosi being strung upside down naked in a barn.  Very Tarantino.  It's all kind of weirdly funny.  Until someone actually tries to kill Pelosi or her husband.

And then the third way it is amusing is you again have to wonder whether this is all just a sick joke Trump and MAGA are pulling on themselves, to their detriment.  Like when and how did Trump win in 2018?  Did calling defeated House Republican Mia Love someone who "gave me no love" take away all the Republican losses?  Did beating the shit out of cops and calling it "a day of love" in January 2021 mean Trump was POTUS from 2021 to now?  Did backing some idiot Black dude in Georgia who talked about horny cows in pastures get Warnock beaten in 2022?  When has this worked?  When did election denier Kari Lake get elected because she denied an election?  Where is the actual win?

Part of my catch up diet includes a double dose of Mark Halperin.  So this is an interesting recent 20 minute interview of him with Michael Smerconish.  At 15:30 they have this brief discussion about how this is not erratic and insane rhetoric.  It is calculated theater and entertainment that somehow gives Trump access to voters who don't answer pollsters but manage to show up and surprise on election day.  And these are people who are cynics and losers to a large degree.  They think politics is flawed and crooked, and they just want Trump to burn the fucker down.  Why would they give a shit if some cop gets her jaw broken?  It was her own damn fault for carrying a gun and protecting RINOs who don't understand cop beaters were just there for their "day of love".

I get the concept.  And the proof of theory is that everyone is worried shitless that if Trump outperforms the polls by 3 or 4 or 5 points again because the crazies come out in droves, like in some of those swing states in 2016 and 2020, he wins.  But the other proof of theory is that except in 2016, when he ran a real insurgent campaign that was felt and seen as a real insurgency, this shit deeply alienates the majority of voters.  It is very well documented that about 52 % of Americans will vote AGAINST this fucked up nonsense EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME.  Like 2018.  And 2020.  And 2022.  And 2023.  And already multiple times in 2024.

When does this actually work?  Is Trump just pulling a joke on himself?  Because that would be extremely funny, seeing what an actual dumb fuck and despicable moron he is.

 

Well, it ALL comes down to this, doesnt it ?    SANE Democracy or CRAZY Autocracy !   The people will decide and either rejoice for Freedom or get what they asked for and pay a very huge price. 

    

[EmmetK]

10 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

SANE Democracy.....

 

Sane?

There is absolutely NOTHING sane about Cackling Kamala.
NOTHING!

 

TRUMP 2024
MAGA

[Suckrates]

23 minutes ago, EmmetK said:

Sane?

There is absolutely NOTHING sane about Cackling Kamala.
NOTHING!

 

TRUMP 2024
MAGA

Hey Dude, whatever YOU think of her (which is what Trump tells you to think), she SANE compared to YOUR guy, who has shown the past few weeks, is a raving, angry LUNATIC.... I guess thats why he needed that "musical interlude" in Pennsylvania town hall to unwind instead of answering voter questions?    The comic dancing and swaying calms him, right ?    So appropriate for a President of the US.... And you take issue with Kamala "laughing"     Dumb Ass. 

[stevenkesslar]

4 hours ago, EmmetK said:

There is absolutely NOTHING sane about Cackling Kamala.

Poor thing.   I feel for you.   She may even cackle when she takes the oath of office.

2018:  Loser

2020:  Loser

2022:  Loser

2023:  Loser

2024:  Loser

Well, I'll be a nice guy and send you a copy of Ave Maria.  The Pavarotti version the loser likes.  It consoled him at whatever that weird town hall thing was.  Poor Kristi!

[stevenkesslar]

Harris on Kelly reports: Trump ‘wants unchecked power’

John Kelly, Donald Trump’s longest-serving chief of staff, told The New York Times the former president is “certainly an authoritarian” who “falls into the general definition of fascist.”

 

It's encouraging that every time the sick fascist wannabe says sick and violent stuff, revealing what a prick he really is, there is an equal or stronger force that stands for American values that opposes Trump.  So Trump's thug statements about throwing Pelosi and Schiff in jail and further pissing on democracy and the rule of law brought out General Kelly, who knows full well that Trump is a wannabe Friend of Adolph.

Of course the sick lying fuck now has to disown Kelly and lie more. He has to argue we should not believe what we hear from conservatives like his former Veep, his former Defense Secretary, his former Chief of Staff, his former National Security Adviser.  All of whom say this guy has dictatorial values, and he does not uphold democratic standards of the rule of law.

This is exactly why the sick lying ME ME ME dictator wannabe is going to lose.

 

[Suckrates]

We know Trump wants unchecked power,  he's been saying its since his appeals in all his indictments, so what's the big news here ?    And since the Supreme Court has granted his wish, Trump 2.0 will be quite destructive and transformative for America. 

[lookin]

If you believe that authoritarian followers make up most of Trump's base, which I do, and if you understand authoritarian followers, which I think I do, it explains much of the otherwise puzzling loyalty of Trump's base.

Authoritarian followers need a leader.  It doesn't matter what Trump does (as he himself has said), they will stick to him until another leader comes along that they can attach to.  They will vote against their own interests rather than give up their leader.

I don't think they'll magically change just because someone points out the failures of their leader.  They've already taken that into account.

We can despair that they're so illogical, we can tell them what lies in store for them, and/or we can try to reason with them, but that's not how authoritarian followers work.  They need a leader to give them the simple answers they need to manage their fear of 'the other'.  Trump is their leader and they will not give him up until there's someone else to take his place.  They will not go without someone to follow.

At least that's how I see it, and it's the one explanation that makes all the pieces fit together - for me anyway.

My own hope is that, while they may stay with Trump as their personal leader, they won't necessarily turn out to vote.  Trump has told them for years that elections are 'rigged' and that votes aren't reliable.  He has also held out the threat that he will claim the presidency even if he loses the vote.  I doubt there are many Democrats who believe their votes don't matter and, with any luck, that will tip the scales. 🤞

[Suckrates]

5 hours ago, lookin said:

If you believe that authoritarian followers make up most of Trump's base, which I do, and if you understand authoritarian followers, which I think I do, it explains much of the otherwise puzzling loyalty of Trump's base.

Authoritarian followers need a leader.  It doesn't matter what Trump does (as he himself has said), they will stick to him until another leader comes along that they can attach to.  They will vote against their own interests rather than give up their leader.

I don't think they'll magically change just because someone points out the failures of their leader.  They've already taken that into account.

We can despair that they're so illogical, we can tell them what lies in store for them, and/or we can try to reason with them, but that's not how authoritarian followers work.  They need a leader to give them the simple answers they need to manage their fear of 'the other'.  Trump is their leader and they will not give him up until there's someone else to take his place.  They will not go without someone to follow.

At least that's how I see it, and it's the one explanation that makes all the pieces fit together - for me anyway.

My own hope is that, while they may stay with Trump as their personal leader, they won't necessarily turn out to vote.  Trump has told them for years that elections are 'rigged' and that votes aren't reliable.  He has also held out the threat that he will claim the presidency even if he loses the vote.  I doubt there are many Democrats who believe their votes don't matter and, with any luck, that will tip the scales. 🤞

 

At this point, its just Prayers and Luck.   The people have already made up their minds even if they DONT want to admit to doing so.... Turnout, turnout, turnout !

[KeepItReal]

On 10/21/2024 at 9:04 AM, EmmetK said:

 

TRUMP 2020

MAGA

I will pray for MAGA leadership. 🙏  Psalms 109:8. 

"May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership."

(As seen in 2009 when the GOP put this on bumper stickers aimed at Pres Obama.)