Guest anonone Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I am too much of a newbie to know about the twilight bar of old. From everyone's description, it appears to be a place of great memory. I will chime in on the discussion about the big cock show versus more "innocent" nudity. I am much more aroused by casual views of the male body then a full on fuck show / porno type of setup. This can be at the go go bars as well. Much more interesting to watch a scantily clad dancer really bopping on stage as opposed to the bored looking guy pumping his cock. That is also why I enjoy hanging out at the gay beach near Jomtien. Lots of great views, guys playing around, laughter and fun. A more innocent environment then a crowded fuck show. I am not sure why, but I swear the sexiest thing is a cute young Thai guy giving my a wai, with a big smile on his face. Makes my heart skip a beat more than any fuck show. But maybe this is just me...perhaps I have discovered a new fetish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 In some bars they wear cut away shorts or even small loincloths & cannot wait to show everything off to the customers. I think I am right in saying this is confined to only 2 or 3 bars in Pattaya. I don't know of any bar in Bangkok where it happens overtly, although there is a tiny one where 'getting down to basics' is so in your face it is, in my view, totally boring. Indeed, my overall impression from visiting quite a number of bars in Bangkok over the years is that there is a great deal more personal modesty around than there was 20 - 30 years ago. I am much more aroused by casual views of the male body I couldn't agree more I am not sure why, but I swear the sexiest thing is a cute young Thai guy giving my a wai, with a big smile on his face. Makes my heart skip a beat more than any fuck show. The catch to this is, I guess - can a bar owner make money out of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoochaai Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I am not sure why, but I swear the sexiest thing is a cute young Thai guy giving my a wai, with a big smile on his face. Makes my heart skip a beat more than any fuck show. While I agree that young Thai men giving a 'wai' is something very graceful and charming that makes my heart beat faster, yet I deem a totally nude lad even more appealing. But as I said before, his being nude shouldn't be the main attraction, it should be more of something rather casual. I have very fond memories of the sight of good-looking guys 'dancing' naked on a stage while they were fooling around and teasing each other so that they were no longer really aware of their being nude. It just seems something quite natural. (In order not to be misunderstood: I am sensible of the fact that the bar setting as such isn't really natural. The only natural setting in a certain manner would be taking a shower together with football players after a match, but that's no good for an evening entertainment.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lonelywombat Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 The posters this thread would have loved Nautilius which was located in soi 1 just behind the Dusit, during the 90's.. The water tank comprised one full wall and there were 3 circular windows through which you could watch naked boys swimming. There was a ladder out of sight and the boys would stand on, gulp in some fresh air and harden up ready for another swim. Sexual antics often occurred but it is hard to successfully penetrate underwater. There was another bar on Buddha Hill that opened after Nautilius closed. That was open air pool and the water very cold.. There was the normal go go show on a stage in front of the pool and twice a night naked boys swimming, Throb has never been able to replicate what used to happen there. I was there once in rainy season and had a regular off who was a swimmer. On the rainy nights when there were no customers the boys often had naked sword [erection] fights not in the pool, and it was both innocent and erotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni21 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 When you guys speak of "nude" and "natural" being appealing, do you mean nude with a softie or must it be a steelie (which usually implies a tourniquet)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anonone Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 When you guys speak of "nude" and "natural" being appealing, do you mean nude with a softie or must it be a steelie (which usually implies a tourniquet)? For me, nude with a softie in this setting has more appeal. Not so much about the sex at this point, just the absolute beauty of male body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoochaai Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 For me, nude with a softie in this setting has more appeal. Not so much about the sex at this point, just the absolute beauty of male body. Same with me - I couldn't agree more. In fact, it's not about sex, it's about beauty and aesthetics! That said, the odd hard-on can be very aesthetic, too, but it has to occur naturally, i.e. due to natural arousal, and not because if wanking like mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Same with me - I couldn't agree more. And same with me. Clearly some of us here would patronise such a bar and probably be prepared to pay some level of premium. As has been discussed earlier, though, the key will be whether Thais would support it. We know that in Bangkok most of the bars only exist because of Thai patrons. They would die out if they depended purely on farang and tourists. Would Thais patronise such an establishment - or have they perhaps moved on from the old Twilight model? If my memory is correct, most of the patrons of the old Twilight and other bars of that period were not in their 20s. They were a slightly older clientele. Was this because the drinks prices compared to the wages and salaries of those days made it more difficult for younger patrons? Or were the younger generation just not interested? And is the present younger generation of Thais now more interested in saunas (which are cheaper) and discos (which stay open longer and where drinks are cheaper) than they are in any go-go bar format? Talking to friends' boyfriends, I have a feeling that go-go bars hold little interest for most of them. If that is the case, is this discussion merely an academic exercise? I certainly hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I thought gogo bars appealed to more mature clients as that's where they go to find willing partners in their late teens and their twenties. Many young Thais can fine people of their own age group in the discos, so they have no need to patronise the expensive gogo bars. As for total nudity in bars, surely the law is the only reason why there are not some nude bars remaining? I'm sure there would be sufficient customer demand and staff supply to sustain at least a few such bars. However, when nudity is banned, bars find they can satisfy the customers with dancers wearing underwear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoochaai Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 As for total nudity in bars, surely the law is the only reason why there are not some nude bars remaining? I'm sure there would be sufficient customer demand and staff supply to sustain at least a few such bars. However, when nudity is banned, bars find they can satisfy the customers with dancers wearing underwear. Sorry, but this kind of reasoning simply doesn't make sense, especially in a country like Thailand. As we all know, there are seedy routines like f*** shows in some bars which is clearly against the law - and still it happens. The question is whether tea money is paid and whether the price is right for the BIB to turn a blind eye. Why this scheme doesn't work with relatively tame nude dancing in bars, escapes my understanding... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Sadly I didn't discover Thailand early enough to experience the nude bars referred to above. However, if you google nudity in thai bars, there are umpteen references which imply it was commonplace in straight gogo bars until the law banned it. Perhaps the f*ck shows bring in enough customers to fund all the tea money. Some bars get a lot of customers for these shows. However, perhaps the increment in turnover from getting gogo dancers to just take their clothes off would not cover such costs. Having them wear tiny loin cloths possibly satisfies both the law and quite a few of the customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I thought gogo bars appealed to more mature clients as that's where they go to find willing partners in their late teens and their twenties. Generally I think this is true. But in Soi Twilight, I recall seeing many younger patrons up till only a year or so ago. Some could have been Asians from other countries, but quite a number were definitely Thais. I would see many come in small groups, select some boys, wait for the shows when they all seemed to thoroughly enjoy the parts which leave many westerners cold - the drag, lip-synching, comedy routines - and then disappear with their offs. When I say "young", it's hard to be sure of their precise ages. But they looked like anything from later 20s to 40s. Future Boys was one venue where a lot of younger Thais congregated, which makes it all the more curious why that bar collapsed. But back to nudity. In Chiang Mai last year, I noticed in a couple of bars the use of revealing netting which would be unwound to show all, meaning a tied-off state of arousal. If the bars can get away with that, then surely they could similarly get away with a reveal of more natural states? But could the Bangkok bar owners be persuaded this would bring in customers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoochaai Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 But back to nudity. In Chiang Mai last year, I noticed in a couple of bars the use of revealing netting which would be unwound to show all, meaning a tied-off state of arousal. If the bars can get away with that, then surely they could similarly get away with a reveal of more natural states? But could the Bangkok bar owners be persuaded this would bring in customers? Indeed, this would be very desirable. That said, certain things in Thailand do not happen according to business logics. It has been mentioned a thousand times that most customers do not like the ladyboy mamasans and, in fact, deem them rather off-putting. Looked at in that light, ladyboy mamasans are detrimental to business and still, most bar owners stick with them. The argument that it's these mamasans only who make sure that money comes in isn't really convincing... The same lack of business logics applies to the entertainment program inside the bars. While f*** shows and bars having underage boys must be much more expensive in terms of tea money and, if raided, are clearly more of a contravention of the current law, relatively tame nude dancing would certainly be cheaper and, if raided, probably not that much of an offense. Therefore it's really hard to grasp why the latter is not on offer at all, at least not in gay bars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 "Ours not to reason why . . . . !" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lonelywombat Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Some interesting feedback comparing the shorts worn by boys at Krazydragon and Happyboys, where the boys come to the table to seek reward for looking at or feeling the goods. To quote an expat "In most cases they are happy for a quick squeeze for 20 baht and move on. If they stay longer it is usually a boy drink and maybe 100 baht. Several people liked the look of a boy in silk shorts with perhaps no underwear, if they remained on stage. They liked the look of something swinging there and preferred that to having an erection in your face. 3-4 boys masturbating at a time for a show but at arms length to the audience, perhaps one ot two show per night, has been referred to as the middle ground that would also appeal to the boys who have not become so brazen, yet. In the old Twilight, many boys did not do full nudity and yet we keep coming back to it with our fond memories. The lap laps worn by the boys at the Jungle Boys bar were too often lifted often without the boys agreement. But if onstage they would fit in with the midway concept to what is missing ATM. I think laps no underwear would be quite sexy. In discussions, PM's and email, it has been suggested that there are still many very handsome boys coming down from Issan all the time. Not all are so desperate to go the complete monty and quickly become aware the bars that require 2 pairs of underwear to hide the bulge dont get much business. You can add to my initial classifications Most Brazen XBoys and Dynamite Brazen Krazyboys and HappyBoys Less Brazen [ some advanced nudity] Mic bar, Forest House, Nice Boys and probably Good Boys. The bars classified as less brazen all have boys sitting around showing their wares, and jerking whether on stage or just sitting anywhere. The rest from my experience do not have boys exposing themselves. It is not a coincidence they rarely do great business. Maybe there is room for another category, that of Tease. But would anyone go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 In the old Twilight, many boys did not do full nudity and yet we keep coming back to it with our fond memories. Memory can and does play tricks on one occasionally, but I would swear all the boys in Twilight had to dance naked for most of the 1980s (at least since I started visiting in the early part of that decade). Indeed, I can recall the 2 elderly mamasans frequently telling a boy that it was time to get the briefs off and up on the stage. Even boys who sat with a customer buying them drinks had to excuse themselves for a few minutes every now and then to go up and 'perform'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lonelywombat Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Memory can and does play tricks on one occasionally, but I would swear all the boys in Twilight had to dance naked for most of the 1980s (at least since I started visiting in the early part of that decade). Indeed, I can recall the 2 elderly mamasans frequently telling a boy that it was time to get the briefs off and up on the stage. Even boys who sat with a customer buying them drinks had to excuse themselves for a few minutes every now and then to go up and 'perform'. \ The two elderly ladyboys were the owners , [ugh is there another term for ladyboys our age] ran the place with an iron fist. I did know several shy boys who went on stage naked with the jocks in one hand covering their goodies. Once on stage they shifted their undies occasionally changing hands and those on the extreme sides of the stage got a peak. We used to offer selected boys 100 baht for a flash. Even then some boys did not do the full monty. On any given night up to 25% did not do a full flash, let alone the JO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoochaai Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I did know several shy boys who went on stage naked with the jocks in one hand covering their goodies. Once on stage they shifted their undies occasionally changing hands and those on the extreme sides of the stage got a peak. That's precisely how I remember it as well. Some boys were very straightforward and not shy to stand on stage fully nude, whilst others tried to cover their willies with their undies. By the way, those elderly ladyboys in that bar did a very good job by enforcing discipline amongst the boys. However, they did not pester the guests! I wish mamasans these days were the same. Anyway, it was that mixture of straightforward and shy boys on stage that I found very appealing. And the idea of the boys dancing in their undies first and getting nude at a specific time (9 p.m. or 10 p.m.) was very good too. I remember that I used to be looking forward to that crucial moment when nude dancing started! I wish there was a bar like that these days - I'd be a regular there for sure, calling in every night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lonelywombat Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 That's precisely how I remember it as well. Some boys were very straightforward and not shy to stand on stage fully nude, whilst others tried to cover their willies with their undies. By the way, those elderly ladyboys in that bar did a very good job by enforcing discipline amongst the boys. However, they did not pester the guests! I wish mamasans these days were the same. Anyway, it was that mixture of straightforward and shy boys on stage that I found very appealing. And the idea of the boys dancing in their undies first and getting nude at a specific time (9 p.m. or 10 p.m.) was very good too. I remember that I used to be looking forward to that crucial moment when nude dancing started! I wish there was a bar like that these days - I'd be a regular there for sure, calling in every night! You forgot the little middleaged man. not tall and going bald, who was front of house. A bit of a mouse and under the thumb of the two dragon ladies.He walked around with his flashlight , acted as door man, on busy nights pushed people mainly thais to sit close up on stools, threw whatever weight he had around and I did not take him seriously. Twilight was where I first heard "me shy" They would come off the stage without showing anything and come and stand next to us,for a quick flash a feel and 100 baht.. The modesty wore off, but there was always another one or two to replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoochaai Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Well, this discussion clearly shows that there are bar goers out there who wish some venue with a Twilight-like format would come back. If anyone knows of such a place or has recently seen a bar that offers some male nude dancing, please, let us know. (If it's some information that's inappropriate for a post in a public forum, please, email or send a private message. ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 others tried to cover their willies with their undies That was always slightly disappointing but they still had to get their pants off before going up on stage. And if you sat on the left side of the bar, there was not much left to the imagination You forgot the little middleaged man . . . Twilight was where I first heard "me shy" Of course! He was a real character, always bustling around like something out of Lord of the Rings or the Harry Potter movies. As for the shyness, I think, as I said before, that that may be more pronounced amongst young men now - at least in Bangkok, although I have absolutely no statistics to back that up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni21 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 As for the shyness, I think, as I said before, that that may be more pronounced amongst young men now - at least in Bangkok, although I have absolutely no statistics to back that up. I have no data either. Generally speaking the Thais and Malays are a lot shyer than the Chinese, Koreans or Japanese when it comes to nudity, but then when I start to think about the basis of this very statement, I realise my experiences are limited to all-male settings like saunas. Even in saunas, though, the Thais are distinctly shyer than their East Asian cousins. I therefore wonder. . . if the Thais already start off as shyer in all-male settings, and some of you have observed that they have become even shyer in gogo bars of late, might it be related to the increasing entry of female customers to bars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fountainhall Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Generally speaking the Thais and Malays are a lot shyer than the Chinese, Koreans or Japanese when it comes to nudity I think two factors have influenced this. For centuries, the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese bathed in public bath houses. They became so used to the nude form that it held no special interest to them. Nudity as such was just an accepted part of everyday life. I imagine the same was true in the old Malaya and with the original Chinese settlers in Singapore. What almost certainly changed their attitudes was the arrival of the British colonialists with their perverted ideas of Victorian and religious morality. Such a shame, in many senses! might it be related to the increasing entry of female customers to bars? Do you mean in the sense that many of the boys are straight and may therefore be more embarrassed in front of the opposite sex? But I remember quite a number of ladies attending the old Twilight. I do not think that is a new thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest finally Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 This thread made me reread the book "Bangkok Boy..The story of a stolen childhood". It tells the story of a guy who starts working at a bar in the...I guess..early 90ies. Interestingly the bar where he worked opened at midday. The rates for shorttime were 1500 already then. He does not mention that the boys HAD to dance in the nude though some did to tease customers. He mentions that his interview before working took just one minute and that he did nothave to show his "assets" or go to the room with the mamasan before working. Don t know how it works nowadays but I heard from a boy I was very close with that some captains of Hotmale..back in 2008.. took advantage of the newbies and "tried them out". I highly recommend this book bec. it gives a look at the other "side of the coin".... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I imagine the same was true in the old Malaya and with the original Chinese settlers in Singapore. What almost certainly changed their attitudes was the arrival of the British colonialists with their perverted ideas of Victorian and religious morality. Such a shame, in many senses! I'm sure you are correct, but we British cannot be blamed for such attitudes in Thailand? Generally, societies also evolve from shy & reserved, to being more open. Except for cases where intolerant Taliban like elements take over (e.g. the Victorians). I very much doubt an increase in shyness has anything to do with the loss of nude bars. Surely the law is the only reason there are no no longer any nude bars? Some gogo dancers are not clearly shy about getting it out in a few bars named earlier. However, if they wear something around the waist, perhaps they comply with the letter of the law, even if their tackle is hanging out. I do accept quite a few would not like to dance in the nude, but there would be enough willing to staff a few bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
