Under the influence . . .

[lookin]

Gotta admit, this whole ‘influencer’ thing pretty much snuck up on me.  We had class presidents and prom kings and queens in my salad days but we didn’t follow them around and try to act like them.  Fact is our ‘B’ group had more activities going on that the ‘A’ group would come and join.  There were more of us and we were more active.  So it seems strange to me now that millions of kids and young adults are latching on to some pretty shallow ‘influencers’ and trying to mimic their moves and their thoughts, such as they are.  Maybe it’s because young folks spend so much time on their screens where shiny objects draw the most attention.

The idea that Russia or anybody else would spend millions of dollars hiring ‘influencers’ to brainwash their followers - influencees? - caught me by surprise and made me worry that independent thinkers might be a dying breed.

But I realize it’s the same kind of worrying that I do about authoritarian followers and that they’re probably cut from the same cloth as social media followers.  If so, they'll likely be a steady third of the population.

I try my best to understand what makes followers tick and to honor the choices they make - or, more likely - the choices they don’t make.  I sure wouldn’t want to log in to a website every day to find out what I’m supposed to think.

Except maybe this one.  Every day, it seems my esteemed fellow posters do all the research and lay out the facts so thoroughly that all I need to do is hit the ‘Like’ button.

And if Putin wants to slip them a fistful of rubles, who am I to make waves?  

[Pete1111]

I remember growing up in the Midwest, our newspaper was highly regarded.  Our Sunday paper was monstrous.  So much great content to pour over.  We had a weekday edition, and also an afternoon edition delivered 6 days a week.

As a kid I recall hearing complaints our newspaper was slanted.  I thought to myself "what is wrong with them, complaining about the newspaper?"

I lived in a lower middle class neighborhood. Most homes had the newspaper delivered, all the editions.  Not getting the newspaper seemed unthinkable.  So, who were these cranks complaining about the newspaper,  I thought.  

At one point one of my most respected grade school teachers suggested not everything we read in the newspaper is true.   I recall thinking "but how can that be?"

But the reality was reporting behind the Iron Curtain wasn't the only place where the editing was jiggered a bit to suit a purpose.  Not everything published in the NYT for example was meant to report news as much as to sell newspapers.

Fast forward to today, newspaper circulation and readership tends to be digital.  NYT now even has podcasts.  The idea of media influence is a lot more apparent to me and likely everyone than it was back in the days when we mostly treasured our newspaper back home.  There seems to be enough transparency and evidence to learn we should question a lot of what we hear now from corporate media. 

One might wonder what exactly drives Sinclair, Fox, OAN and Newsmax to color their news into alternate facts.  Is it merely greed?  I expect so.

Why does corporate media tend to parrot the alternate facts already trumpeted by right wing media as if they deserve reporting, while rarely including fact checking of the lies? 

Today I listened to a corporate media piece on Omaha, Nebraska.  They interviewed a couple that supported Trump.  When asked why, they agreed how only Trump is willing to tell the truth.

That upset me, how ridiculous that story was, and how corporate media needs to take responsibility for their role in fostering such a false opinion of Trump.

So what should we think about Russian money that paid for production of propaganda spread by influencers on YouTube?

How corporate media has reacted to this reminds me of Captain Renoir in Casablanca.  We're shocked how false news was easily spread by funneling money from Russia!

Does anyone remember that $20,000,000 the NRA funneled to the 2016 Trump campaign came from Russian oligarchs.  The lamestream media is willfully acting stupid.

The DOJ is on their game.  The media ought to do a better job connecting the dots that the election interference spread by the influencers cited by Merrick Garland directly benefits Russia and Trump.

But they don't.  Corporate media isn't doing their job.

My last point to the OP is if you reach the point where you doubt whether the folks trying to help, such as board members, might actually be on the take, one can't blame you.

One fellow on Daddy's board parroted so much Kremlin garbage that I accused him of being a Russian troll.  I was eventually banned from that board.  I don't miss it.

I don't know what to tell you, other than keep on your toes and be careful when it seems others merely want to hit your emotional hot buttons.

[stevenkesslar]

21 hours ago, lookin said:

The idea that Russia or anybody else would spend millions of dollars hiring ‘influencers’ to brainwash their followers - influencees? - caught me by surprise and made me worry that independent thinkers might be a dying breed.

And the problem is ............... ?

Let's be clear about this.   Influencers, almost by definition, are critical thinkers.   Why else would they be influencers?  So the fact that Genocide Man will pay American influencers to trash Biden and trash NATO actually proves that critical thinking is alive and well.  In the United States.

In Russia, critical thinkers are also alive and well. Unless they don't like Vlad.  Those critical thinkers are dead and buried.

Russia is where you go if you DO NOT want to be an influencer.  At best, Russia is where you go if you are pals with a genocidal monster and you want to make money helping turn other Russians into fertilizer.  Woo hoo!

 

Now, of course, there have been many well known Russian influencers who were not sent to become fertilizer in Ukraine.  They simply ended up being shot in the head, or poisoned, or had the misfortune of flying in an airplane that blew up.

So is there a problem in the United States of America?  Or is the problem in Genocide World?  Is the problem perhaps with Genocide Man, and his murderous authoritarian tendencies?

Whadaya say Vlad?

Awwwww.   What an adorable mass murderer of women and children.  And Russian influencers who don't kiss his ass, of course.

I posted this article in another thread, but this fits here:

Quote

How has the Kremlin been able to infiltrate far-right media so effectively?

The main reason is that they share a similar ideology. This kind of traditionalism and conservatism is something that Russia would also like to promote.

Quote

There are also these kinds of narratives promoted by people on the left. It is an extremely cynical system where the whole idea is to polarize the U.S. population by providing extreme ideologies and extreme ideas and push them to a U.S. audience.

Quote

What about the superspreader accounts does the Kremlin find useful?

These people, they are also idolized. They have huge fan bases. Huge superspreader social media personalities — they are being listened to and they are believed. So they are also a very good hub for spreading any narratives that would be pro-Kremlin narratives.

Quote

Influencers with a fanatic following are far more successful at spreading disinformation than bots and trolls, he [a disinformation scholar] told POLITICO Magazine in an interview.

 

So social media has given us influencers who get rich, in part thanks to Genocide Man.  They say things many people like to hear, and that Genocide Man wants them to hear.  Like we should cut Ukraine loose and let Genocide Man kill as many women and kids as he wants.

And the problem is?

The Republican Party in particular has a long history of isolationism.  The most successful Republicans - Eisenhower, Reagan, the Bushes - have pushed NATO and alliances.  So Vlad did not invent isolationism.  When isolationism thrives in the GOP, they lose.   Like in 2020.  I'm a Democrat.  And the problem is?

Okay, okay.  I get it.  There is huge divisive conflict in the US.   As a result, turnout in US Presidential elections is higher than before, almost at historically unmatched levels.  Black men are no longer 3/5s of a person.  Black men are POTUS.  Now we'll see if a Black woman can be POTUS  (unless she changes to be White, of course 😲).

 

Democracy is thriving.  And the problem is?

Okay, okay.  I get it.  All of this is completely fucking up the US economy.

The stock market is at all times highs.  The US is the technology leader of the world.  Meanwhile, Vlad is the genocide leader of the world.  He is very good at figuring out how to keep the failed Russian economy going by turning his people into fertilizer and killing Ukrainian women and children.  Meanwhile, the US economy is beating China, Europe, and everyone else.

And the problem is?

Let the influencers influence.  Let Vlad pay them his genocide money.   Kamala Harris will lead a thriving multi-racial democratic capitalist economy.  Murderous Vlad will lead a failing and genocidal kleptocratic authoritarian mess.

Eventually, that will influence the Russian people.  Just like the Soviet Union, Vlad's limp, weak, and failing Russian Federation will collapse of its own rot and evil.

But don't take my word for it. Listen to what the influencers are saying:

Ukraine war: Russia faces revolution and collapse within 10 years, experts say

• Nearly half of respondents to a think tank’s poll expect the country to break up by 2033, and over a fifth think it is likely to become a failed state

[Pete1111]

11 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

And the problem is ............... ?

Let's be clear about this.   Influencers, almost by definition, are critical thinkers.   Why else would they be influencers?  So the fact that Genocide Man will pay American influencers to trash Biden and trash NATO actually proves that critical thinking is alive and well.  In the United States.

In Russia, critical thinkers are also alive and well. Unless they don't like Vlad.  Those critical thinkers are dead and buried.

Russia is where you go if you DO NOT want to be an influencer.  At best, Russia is where you go if you are pals with a genocidal monster and you want to make money helping turn other Russians into fertilizer.  Woo hoo!

 

Now, of course, there have been many well known Russian influencers who were not sent to become fertilizer in Ukraine.  They simply ended up being shot in the head, or poisoned, or had the misfortune of flying in an airplane that blew up.

So is there a problem in the United States of America?  Or is the problem in Genocide World?  Is the problem perhaps with Genocide Man, and his murderous authoritarian tendencies?

Whadaya say Vlad?

Awwwww.   What an adorable mass murderer of women and children.  And Russian influencers who don't kiss his ass, of course.

I posted this article in another thread, but this fits here:

 

So social media has given us influencers who get rich, in part thanks to Genocide Man.  They say things many people like to hear, and that Genocide Man wants them to hear.  Like we should cut Ukraine loose and let Genocide Man kill as many women and kids as he wants.

And the problem is?

The Republican Party in particular has a long history of isolationism.  The most successful Republicans - Eisenhower, Reagan, the Bushes - have pushed NATO and alliances.  So Vlad did not invent isolationism.  When isolationism thrives in the GOP, they lose.   Like in 2020.  I'm a Democrat.  And the problem is?

Okay, okay.  I get it.  There is huge divisive conflict in the US.   As a result, turnout in US Presidential elections is higher than before, almost at historically unmatched levels.  Black men are no longer 3/5s of a person.  Black men are POTUS.  Now we'll see if a Black woman can be POTUS  (unless she changes to be White, of course 😲).

 

Democracy is thriving.  And the problem is?

Okay, okay.  I get it.  All of this is completely fucking up the US economy.

The stock market is at all times highs.  The US is the technology leader of the world.  Meanwhile, Vlad is the genocide leader of the world.  He is very good at figuring out how to keep the failed Russian economy going by turning his people into fertilizer and killing Ukrainian women and children.  Meanwhile, the US economy is beating China, Europe, and everyone else.

And the problem is?

Let the influencers influence.  Let Vlad pay them his genocide money.   Kamala Harris will lead a thriving multi-racial democratic capitalist economy.  Murderous Vlad will lead a failing and genocidal kleptocratic authoritarian mess.

Eventually, that will influence the Russian people.  Just like the Soviet Union, Vlad's limp, weak, and failing Russian Federation will collapse of its own rot and evil.

But don't take my word for it. Listen to what the influencers are saying:

Ukraine war: Russia faces revolution and collapse within 10 years, experts say

• Nearly half of respondents to a think tank’s poll expect the country to break up by 2033, and over a fifth think it is likely to become a failed state

 

There are flat earth critical thinkers that produce charts and graphs just as impressive as yours.   The number of people in the West that believe the earth is flat is growing surprisingly fast, thanks to this brand of influencer. 

More importantly,  I  think about recent history where influencers caused genocides in Myanmar and Rwanda.   Pre-internet influencers made their mark as well.  The Khmer Rouge.  The Third Reich. 

Influencers around the world are demonizing journalists so that more and more are being attacked, even in the US.

 

Is there a problem?

Merrick Garland says yes.

 

  I agree.

 

[Suckrates]

19 minutes ago, Pete1111 said:

 

There are flat earth critical thinkers that produce charts and graphs just as impressive as yours.   The number of people in the West that believe the earth is flat is growing surprisingly fast, thanks to this brand of influencer. 

More importantly,  I  think about recent history where influencers caused genocides in Myanmar and Rwanda.   Pre-internet influencers made their mark as well.  The Khmer Rouge.  The Third Reich. 

Influencers around the world are demonizing journalists so that more and more are being attacked, even in the US.

 

Is there a problem?

Merrick Garland says yes.

 

  I agree.

 

 

IMO Merrick Garland IS a problem,   he is the reason we are stuck with a criminal that is unable to receive accountability.  Garland sat back and delayed all investigation into Trump crimes.   Hence the reason Trump hasnt been tried for most and isnt in prison.  Garland is a scared little bot intimidated by Trump and has no business as the head of DOJ...   Garland is a PUSSY. 

[Pete1111]

To the OP, of course I could be wrong.   Does anyone else ever have the slightest doubts?  It's human nature after hearing the same lies over and over

    In Russia the opposition has either given up or they doubt themselves or both.  Perhaps Putin and Trump know what's right for everyone.

So yeah, maybe I'm wrong.  Maybe Trump tells the truth.  Maybe the earth is flat.   Maybe the election was stolen.  Critical thinkers and influencers like Mike Lindell think they have pretty solid evidence.   Let's give his side a voice instead of fact checking him and ruling against in court.    What could go wrong?

 

[lookin]

10 minutes ago, Pete1111 said:

To the OP, of course I could be wrong.

Quite the contrary.  I may have been a bit too cute with the irony in my post.  I think you and I see things pretty much the same way.

Most of the focus seems to be on the influencers and, in posts gone by, on the authoritarian 'leaders'.  And that's appropriate, necessary and fine with me.  But I also have been looking closely at authoritarian followers and, lately, on those who are influenced by the social media influencers.

Authoritarian followers caused a lot of trouble in Hitler's Germany.  I read an account from one of Hitler's secretaries about the day after Hitler committed suicide.  Civilian staff in the bunker were slipping away to make it through Berlin toward the American soldiers in the west.  Most of the military staff were trying to do the same thing, but many were shot outside the bunker by German soldiers who had taken an oath of loyalty to Hitler and they considered any soldier who wanted to escape to be a traitor and deserving of death.  They considered this 'oath of loyalty' to Hitler to be in force, even though Hitler was dead.  Those are the kind of authoritarian followers who give me the willies.

The Trump followers who marched to the Capitol on January 6th to "Hang Mike Pence" give me the willies too.  And, while I'm not as rattled by those who 'follow' the Tenet Media influencers who took money from the Russians to fill their followers' heads with anti-democratic ideas, the day may soon come when I am.  A follower with a computer is one thing but a follower with brass knuckles and a gun is quite another.

I think it's shortsighted not to understand these authoritarian followers, what makes them tick and, most important, how to make sure they don't end up following someone who wants to mobilize them against what still remains of our democratic society.

We definitely need to pay attention to the influencers but, in my opinion, we need to pay attention to the 'influencees'.  There are many more of them and, when led down a destructive path, they can tear a nation apart.

My preference, of course, would be for a society full of independent thinkers who look at a wide range of information and reach their own conclusions.  But history and social research tells us that there will always be a subset of followers.  If that's the case, we need to find a way to reach them and make sure they don't get pulled along toward destructive behaviors.

[stevenkesslar]

1 hour ago, Pete1111 said:

More importantly,  I  think about recent history where influencers caused genocides in Myanmar and Rwanda.   Pre-internet influencers made their mark as well.  The Khmer Rouge.  The Third Reich. 

Is there a problem?

Merrick Garland says yes.

All true.  

Granted, you used some of the most extreme examples.  But you're right.

I was not endorsing right-wing influencers, or saying they are correct.   I was simply saying this is nothing new.  Your examples prove my point.

@lookin's point is that "independent thinkers might be a dying breed."  In the Third Reich, independent thinkers were a dying breed.  As were Jews, and Gays, and anyone who disagreed with Der Fuhrer.  It worked for a while. 

And then it was crushed.  And now it is hated and used forever as an example of the worst people can be.

Trump is already remembered as the worst Presidents can be.

There's another line I often think about relating to Putin and his disinformation that fits in well here.

Trump and right-wing influencers are a threat.  But they are also a stress test for democracy.  So far, democracy is working.

[stevenkesslar]

42 minutes ago, lookin said:

But history and social research tells us that there will always be a subset of followers.

 

42 minutes ago, lookin said:

We definitely need to pay attention to the influencers but, in my opinion, we need to pay attention to the 'influencees'.  There are many more of them and, when led down a destructive path, they can tear a nation apart.

That's the point.

Your points on authoritarianism are always excellent.  It is a huge challenge.  And you can make a great argument that the real problem is not authoritarians, or authoritarian-friendly influencers.  The real problem is those authoritarian followers.  Without throngs of authoritarian followers, you can't have authoritarian leaders.

My point is that in the US, so far, the best answer is to let democracy work.   In Hungary, this idea ain't working so great.  Check back with me in a year.  I am hoping Trump and MAGA are crushed.

A lot of historians draw a parallel between now and the Civil War.  I buy that.  Back then you can argue you needed two things.  You needed to let democracy work.  And you needed to let war work.  Lincoln was a democratic solution to a different form of authoritarianism rooted in upholding slavery, one of the worst crimes against humanity ever.  Lincoln is revered today.  He also led a successful war.  He was also killed for it.  These things ain't pretty, for sure.  MAGA is not pretty.

Harris is trying something interesting.  Instead of making Trump bigger like Biden did - "the battle for the soul of our nation" - she is making him small.  He's just a small, weird old guy who grabs pussies and keeps bungling everything.   He can't talk without a meaningless word salad coming out.  He can't lead.  In effect, she is telling America, "We are smarter than this.  Don't be fooled by dum dums."   We'll see how it works.