The Thailand Dream....

[Guest imin2it2ru]

I briefly visit to BKK Thailand severely years ago. Although my time was limited, I did manage to visit the a boy bar show, go to Babylon, get a massage and become familiar with all the delights Thailand has to offer like my young Thai tour guides wonderful

[Gaybutton]

If you meet the eligibility requirements for a retirement visa and can be assured of receiving enough money each month, by pension or otherwise, then all you have to do is buy your airline ticket, pack your bags, and come on over.

 

If you're going to need a job in Thailand to support yourself, then it's not going to happen. Even if you can find a job that pays enough and you can get a work permit (very difficult to get), what happens if something goes wrong, such as the place you're working for going out of business, getting fired, an accident, illness, or something else? I wouldn't try counting on that. It's too great a risk if you have to depend on a job to be able to stay in Thailand.

 

You said it yourself. You were here a grand total of once, briefly, and that was several years ago. In other words, you really know nothing at all about the realities of living in Thailand.

 

If, despite that, you're going to think with your crotch rather than with your brain, then if you do try to come over on a permanent basis, make sure you leave yourself an escape route and a life to go back to in case things don't work out the way you seem to be hoping and expecting.

 

You did not indicate your age. If you're younger than 50, for the time being my advice would be to save up until you have enough to come back for more holidays in Thailand whenever you can.

 

Bear in mind, coming here for a holiday is one thing. Living here is quite another. From your post, I can see that sex is your main reason for wanting to be here. Everything you mention in your post is about bars, massages, and sex. You brought up nothing else. Others may disagree, but sex alone is, in my opinion, nowhere near enough of a reason to come to Thailand on a permanent basis. You need time to really get to know Thailand and all that is involved in living here. If you truly believe living here means only a lifetime of sexual paradise, and that's all there is to it, then you're dreaming and not being at all realistic.

 

In your own post you said you were only in Thailand once, for a brief time, and that was several years ago. In other words, you know virtually nothing about the realities of living in Thailand. You need time here, a lot of time, to even begin to know what you're getting into if you eventually intend to make Thailand your home.

 

If despite that you're still going to do your thinking with your crotch rather than with your brain, then if nothing else make sure you leave yourself an escape route and a life to go back to in case things don't work out the way you seem to be hoping and expecting.

[Guest]

If you truly believe living here means only a lifetime of sexual paradise, and that's all there is to it, then you're dreaming and not being at all realistic.

 

Really? I thought that was the only reason to be here. Or there other reasons? If so, I guess I forgot them.

 

Seriously, I suggest that the poster lives in Thailand for 3 or 4 months on an extended holiday to see if this is a move he wants to make.

 

Like GB said, it is so different living in LOS than in visiting it.

[aussie_]

I would follow the advise of Gaybutton and Gay Thailand very closely. I have visited Thailand many times and still consider that I have much to learn about living in Thailand permanently, which also is my plan for the future. I believe that you do have more than "sex" on your mind because we all appreciate the freedom regarding gay lifestyle that we can have in Thailand and do not have in our home towns.

 

Before making any decisions about selling up and moving you really need to spend more time in Thailand. Travel through the country, talk to other farangs about what it is like living in Thailand. Most are happy to give advise.

[bkkguy]

we all appreciate the freedom regarding gay lifestyle that we can have in Thailand and do not have in our home towns

 

I suppose it depends on where your home town is and your experiences in Thailand - after 15 years of visiting/living here if I compare Bangkok (a city of some 10 million people) with my home town of Sydney (a city half that size), while Bangkok may be somewhat "tolerant" of gay sex and have a greater selection of commercial sex options and venues, Sydney is much more "accepting" of gay lifestyles at both the government and society level and it has a much greater variety of "non-commercial" gay sex and gay venue options.

 

as a gay falung in Bangkok you may rarely be confronted with anti-gay sentiments but that is more Thai politeness and "tolerance" than "acceptance" - most of my Thai gay friends here, particularly middle class, particularly Thai-Chinese, are much more desperate to escape family pressure to be "normal" than are my gay friends in Sydney, but for some families here the possible financial advantages of a son having a falung "friend" make the whole thing OK

 

yes there is some homophobic violence in Sydney but you are also starting to see some anti-gay aggression here as well, and the loony religious right is always a worry in Australia but the indifference to addressing gay issues in Thailand is depressing at best

 

and yes you may see katoey everywhere here, at schools and even employed at your local bank or 7-11 but the whole "gay" Vs "katoey" issue for Thais Vs westerners is a whole other issue!

 

Having lived as an openly gay man in both Sydney and Bangkok I would say my reasons for living in Bangkok have little to do with "the freedom regarding gay lifestyle that we can have in Thailand", but your mileage may vary!

 

bkkguy

[Gaybutton]

Really? I thought that was the only reason to be here. Or there other reasons? If so, I guess I forgot them.

You mean riding your bicycle from Chiang Mai to Amsterdam, and then on to the North Pole was not among your reasons? I certainly never thought your apartment full of boys had anything to do with it . . .

 

By the way, did anyone other than me notice I screwed up my own earlier post by talking twice about not knowing the realities of living in Thailand? I just now noticed that. I guess when I wrote that post I was thinking with my crotch again. I have to give my hands a rest and remember to send them flowers . . .

 

"I came for the waters."

- Humphrey Bogart, 'Casablanca'

[Guest RichLB]

I agree with GB and GayThailand. You definitely need to visit Thailand far more than just once before even thinking about retiring here. And, do not consider doing it on a budget. It's tough enough adjusting to a different culture without having to worry about finances. One can get by cheaply here, but it isn't much fun.

 

I, of course, know nothing about you, but from what I infer from your post, it sounds like coming out is an issue for you. Thailand is far more permissive of gays than most places in the US - at least for farang. But, coming out is really more dependent on self acceptance than it is on where you live. I don't think it's wise to come to a place like Thailand to find peace with being gay. True, sex is abundant here, but my guess is that that alone will not make you happy. As I'm sure you know, being centered and proud of who you are is essential - especially when creating a whole new life for yourself.

[Guest]

Well for a start, it's about time you visited Thailand again for one or more holidays. Make sure it's for you.

 

I'm saving & investing like hell, so I eventually have the option of a very early retirement to Thailand, or a neighbouring country.

I'm also interested in any ideas people may have to earn substantial money in Thailand right now. I haven't seen many well paid jobs for native English speakers advertised for in Thailand. Why should there be, when it's cheap to employ a local?

[Gaybutton]

it's cheap to employ a local?

Not only is it cheap, it's also the law. That's why it is very difficult for a farang to obtain a work permit. A work permit will not be issued to a farang if it is a job that can be filled by a Thai citizen. In years past, many farang supplemented their income by providing private English lessons. I wouldn't recommend it. You need a work permit for that too and you are unlikely to get it because there are plenty of Thais proficient in English. You can't even do many kinds of volunteer work without a work permit. I would not advise even trying to work without first consulting both a Thai attorney and Immigration.

 

When I first started coming to Thailand, and long before I knew what I was doing, I had made friends with a Thai boy who was setting up one of those night market stalls. He was selling inexpensive shoes. I helped him place shoes on his display case. I found out later if I had been caught doing that I could have been arrested, heavily fined, deported, and blacklisted from ever returning to Thailand. The bottom line is don't even think about doing any kind of work without a work permit.

 

Another aspect of living in Thailand is everything is relative. People tend to want what they can't have. When I lived in the USA I would have murdered my mother to have just about any one of these Thai boys. Now that I live here, it's ho-hum. I'm certainly not complaining, but just knowing if I want a young gent for some "companionship," all I have to do is pick up my telephone any time I want - 24/7, it is no longer something I can't have.

 

Before living here, all I could think about was my next trip to Thailand and the boys. As soon as I arrived for a holiday the first thing I wanted to do was hit the bars and take a boy off. I, like most holiday makers, was in the bars every night and looking for boys at the beach every day. Now that I live here, I rarely even bother with the go-go bars anymore. My focus is no longer primarily boys, bars, booze, and sex. It's not that I've lost interest in sex. Not hardly! But the fact that it is so readily available here and that I can have it any time I want, I no longer need bars to find exactly what I'm looking for.

 

Before living here I thought I would want to be in the go-go bars every night for the rest of my life. Now, quite frankly, I find them rather boring, expensive, and I don't go very often.

 

I know I've been in Thailand a long time when given the choice, quite often instead of running out to the bars I end up deciding to stay home and watch some video about UFOs that RichLB tells me I "must see."

 

The point is, if the only reason you want to move to Thailand is the availability of sex, then in my opinion that's not enough of a reason and probably the wrong reason in the first place. If you want to move to Thailand and be here for the rest of your life, then you need more than just bars and sex as the motivation. You also need to make a life for yourself. You need to be happy. You need to establish a circle of friends. You need to have things to do. And, very important, you need to have enough money to be able to afford the life you really want. If you truly need a job in order to have enough money, then I think you would be making a grave mistake by moving to Thailand.

[Guest]

I'm interested in this too. I strongly suspect the majority of expats are retired & earning enough money for a very early retirement is one obvious option.

 

However, if anyone else is living in Thailand pre-retirement, it would be interesting to hear about it.

 

Also, if you like it that much, why don't you take at least one long holiday there each year?

[Guest imin2it2ru]

Thanks you all for responding to my post and providing really great inside information.

 

I certainly don

[Gaybutton]

I certainly don’t plan on making this huge transition without doing my homework first

Doing your homework is not the problem. It's knowing what homework to do.

 

It's one thing to move from place to place within your own country. It's quite another when you're moving to a totally different country. Besides boys and sex, now you're also moving to a place where you don't read or speak the language, where no matter what you do you'll still always be an outsider, and where just about anything and everything is completely different from the life you've led for 50 years.

 

And then there's all the little, insignificant things. When you get your first electric bill, for example, would you know how and where to pay it without having to ask somebody? Since it is entirely in Thai, would you even know that it's an electric bill? If you lose it, would you know what to do? Of course, that's not a problem, but you'll encounter plenty of little things like that, especially while you're new here, and for some, loads of those little things can add up to a major big thing.

 

And then there is the exchange rates. How would you like to have a decent monthly pension, and find it consistently eaten away by the exchange rates? If you're dependent on exchange rates, you better be prepared for the ups and downs. And right now, I could sure use some ups.

 

If it makes you feel any better, the day I moved to Thailand, as I was stepping on the plane I couldn't help some last minute jitters and thinking, "What the hell am I doing?" But now that I've lived here a number of years, my only regret is that I couldn't have moved here 10 years sooner.

[Guest RichLB]

Now that we've all delivered the warnings (making sure you have enough money to enjoy yourself, not planning to work here, culture shock, etc.) maybe some words of welcome would balance all that.

 

Firstly, it's often a relief to live a life free of sexual frustration. Sexual permissiveness and the availability of young men are so prevalent here, that is impossible.

 

Making gay farang friends in Thailand is far easier than it was for me in the US. We start off with some things in common which makes initial contact easy - ie, dealing with the frustrations of doing things the "Thai way". Newbies enjoy laughing together as they share their cultural mistakes and long time residents never tire of giving advice.

 

You will undoubtedly find your social circle far more diverse than in your home country. For me, in the US I tended to cluster around people who were like me - similar education, similar economic position, similar professional standing, etc. Here in Thailand my friends run the gamut. There are some barely scraping by and some outrageously wealthy, some highly intelligent and some not so bright, some with lots of "get up and go" and some stick in the muds, etc. But what they all share in common is that they have shed the shackles of doing the expected by moving to a foreign culture like Thailand.

 

Boredom is seldom an issue here. Even the most mundane thing can become an adventure (GB's example of paying the electric bill for example). Think about going grocery shopping and being confronted with all those strange looking vegetables and fruits, not having any idea what they are, and picking up some items for dinner. And n Pattaya, the city fathers do their best to make traveling from place to place an adventure - road work that makes your old route impassable, traffic stops to allow dignitaries to pass quickly while the rest of us wait, traffic lights that either don't work or are ignored completely, etc. Everything is an adventure.

 

Oh, the list of the fun living in Thailand goes on. But, if you prefer to create a life which mirrors that of your previous life, that option is here, too. There are plenty of farang oriented supermarkets, cable and satellite television, multiplex movie theaters, internet service (more reliable than its reputation), and just about everything else you're accustomed to.

 

Bottom line, if you do decide to retire in Thailand, I'm pretty sure you will not be disappointed. But, again, do your homework first!!!!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

When I was preparing to move here a few people asked me what I would do if I decided I didn't like it after moving here. I told them if I didn't like it I would pack up and move back to the US. Since I had been coming once or twice a year for 10 years I felt I knew enough to know I wouldn't be sorry. Granted, there were a few things I hadn't thought about, but nothing major. I have not regretted for one minute my decision to move here. My life is richer and fuller than ever before in my life, especially the last few years since I met my bf.

[Guest beachlover]

1. Why haven't you been back to Thailand since that first visit so many years ago? You should really make a few visits to get to know the country much better while you're considering the move. Do you take any overseas holidays?

 

2. Yuck... I would go out of my mind if I was a gay man living in some of the smaller or more conservative areas of the States. Especially if there weren't Asians around (I'm Asian). You might be better off in the more multi-cultural, vibrant and liberal cities like San Fransisco or New York.

 

3. When you move, leave yourself a "golden bridge to retreat across" should anything go wrong. I.e. Make sure you retain your property or a in the States. Keep your spending in Thailand low to start with.

 

4. Some might not like anyone saying this... but think about what you will do in Thailand to ensure that once your necessary pursuit of material wealth is complete, you can still remain occupied with a spiritually happy lifestyle. People are happiest when we are challenged and doing something worthwhile.

 

Don't become one of the bitter old farang who do nothing productive, contribute nothing to the community and have little to occupy their time or challenge their mind.

 

5. When it comes to hook ups and partners in Thailand, consider the downsides of going after the low hanging fruit and consider the advantages of getting to know good ordinary working or middle class Thais...

 

What vocation/industry do you work in? I haven't seen anyone mention this yet but, depending on your circumstances, it may be possible for you to work in Thailand. Many professional expats earn a substantial income (even by Western standards) working in Bangkok in finance, banking, consulting, IT, hospitality (management), legal and marketing/advertising... just as they do in many Asian countries where Western Educated expats are highly sought after and well paid.

[Guest]

I've done the unreadable electricity bill payment thing, although not in Thailand.

Surely all you need is some advice from a friend for the first bill, then it should be easy thereafter? All you need to do is mark up the first example of the bill.

 

Exchange rates require more advance planning. Anyone still working should invest a proportion of their portfolio in the Asian Pacific region to provide some level of currency hedging for the anticipated retirement to the region. Even in the UK there are some terrific Asia Pacific investment trusts (AAS & SST). As the US financial markets are somewhat larger, I figure there must be equivalent trusts there too.

Then with online stockbrokers, it's quite easy to trade directly on the Hong Kong & Singapore stock exchanges (for example).

 

And above all else, start taking some more holidays in Thailand.

[MrBill]

Really? I thought that was the only reason to be here. Or there other reasons? If so, I guess I forgot them.

 

No, not JUST sex. Nong Nooch Orchid Garden & Culture Center is another... watching those elephants paint the t-shirts can be very enticing

[kokopelli]

 

And n Pattaya, the city fathers do their best to make traveling from place to place an adventure - road work that makes your old route impassable, traffic stops to allow dignitaries to pass quickly while the rest of us wait, traffic lights that either don't work or are ignored completely, etc. Everything is an adventure.

 

Hmmm, now that is a stretch of positive spin! Next time I will have to remember that when caught up in traffic.

[Bob]

A lot of good advice...at least by the guys who are actually here.

 

I occasionally get amazed at people who want to move over here who really haven't been here all that much. Seems not too smart to me - to make that kind of radical change without knowing much about where you're going. And occasionally, whether seeing people post about it or actually talking with falang friends, I'm amazed sometimes at the lack of knowledge about expenses one ought to expect. I presume these people live somewhere presently and understand that there are such things as electric bills, water bills, cable television bills, internet bills, laundry bills, medical insurance needs, that you do need to eat everyday, that you'll have transportation expenses, etc., etc.

 

Presuming somebody is going to cut all ties with their home country (if not, don't forget that you have those on-going expenses), making any plan to move here to Thailand based on inadequate funds or based on the hope that you'll find a job that will make up for those inadequate funds is pure folly to me. And, while Z's advice about proper investment strategy is sound, I think you'd be nuts to move here if your financial health is so thin as to be majorly affected by a change in the exchange rates.

 

As a minor point, the electric bills here (and water bills, tv cable bills, etc.) are hardly difficult to figure out even if you can't read Thai at all. What you owe is printed in plain old arabic numbers in baht.

[Guest]

Anyone who had retired to Thailand in 2007 with an income in GBP would find their costs have increased by 37% in just 3 years due to exchange rates alone. Over a 20 year timescale, it could be much worse, who knows.

 

Of course if your retirement income is about 10 times what you might spend in Thailand, it doesn't matter much.

However, not many of us will have that kind of income, so if you expect to have a pension of 1.5x your expected expenditure, there's always a possibility this margin will be eroded by exchange rate movements.

 

If the US keeps running the printing presses, a few years of high inflation could result in big falls in the value of the dollar. The same goes for the British Pound.

[Bob]

In case people don't know and may be interested, you can get a somewhat fair interest rate on bank accounts here in Thailand (more than double what you can get in the states).

 

I use the 800k baht requirement for the 1-year visa so I always have at least that amount set aside permanently. Recently, the lady at SCB told me that had a special account that I could get 3-4% interest and that account would qualify for the one-year visa (I note this as not all cd's and other savings accounts qualify for the one-year visa - meaning, more precisely, that the bank won't give you the standard letter for certain accounts).

 

In any event, for those able and interested, keeping funds in Thailand of course protects you against any exchange rate changes and currently provides you with a heck of a lot more interest than you're going to get in the west (at least in the US).

 

P.S. I keep a separate SCB account for living expenses and that account pays a lousy 1/2 of 1% interest (about what one of my US accounts gets).

[Guest beachlover]

Anyone who had retired to Thailand in 2007 with an income in GBP would find their costs have increased by 37% in just 3 years due to exchange rates alone. Over a 20 year timescale, it could be much worse, who knows.

 

Of course if your retirement income is about 10 times what you might spend in Thailand, it doesn't matter much.

However, not many of us will have that kind of income, so if you expect to have a pension of 1.5x your expected expenditure, there's always a possibility this margin will be eroded by exchange rate movements.

 

If the US keeps running the printing presses, a few years of high inflation could result in big falls in the value of the dollar. The same goes for the British Pound.

Very sensible and have to agree with that. I remember only a couple of years ago the British Pounds were worth AUD$2.50. Now they're barely worth AUD$1.50. Ouch!

 

If you're moving to Thailand aged 50 you really need to be prepared for scenarios, which have a fair likelihood of occuring 15 to 25 years down the track.

[Guest voldemar]

If you're moving to Thailand aged 50 you really need to be prepared for scenarios, which have a fair likelihood of occuring 15 to 25 years down the track.

The only way for an American to be prepared for a period of next 15=20 years is to be prepared to move back to US and most of current expats will be forced to do that much earlier. Thus, for those people who dream about retirement in Thailand, just do it while you can.

[Guest]

The only way for an American to be prepared for a period of next 15=20 years is to be prepared to move back to US and most of current expats will be forced to do that much earlier.

 

As far as I know, the average American is free to buy & sell shares on most of the major stockmarkets. He can also invest in overseas funds which diversify away from the Dollar. [That's certainly how it is over here in the UK]

 

So if he invests a very large proportion of his portfolio abroad, that would be largely insulated against dollar weakness. So why should he be forced to return home, if his investments maintain their value? Am I missing something here?

 

Obviously it would have been better to build up a diversified portfolio of overseas investments over the last 10 years, or longer.

[Guest Yaya]

Excellent, excellent posts. GB, GT, et al as always have provided great insights. Good advice to follow. And RickLB has provided some great positives.