Interesting Article on First Class Airline Seats

[TotallyOz]

The number of first-class cabins is shrinking.

 

A small but growing list of airlines are eliminating or reducing rows in the most expensive part of their aircraft as customers increasingly look for cheaper seats.

The global slowdown has put a damper on first-class flying as fewer corporate travelers can afford $15,000 seats. Premium traffic on international flights — which includes business and first class — fell 16% in 2009, the International Air Transport Association says. While demand has improved this year, premium traffic in August was still 11% down from the pre-downturn size in early 2008, it says.

 

Here's what's going on:

 

• AirTran (AAI), which is being bought by Southwest Airlines, will drop first-class seating once the merger is completed next year. Southwest (LUV), which has never had first- or business-class seats on its planes, says it'll phase out AirTran's first-class service.

 

• United Airlines has been revamping its long-haul aircraft since 2007 to reduce and improve first- and business-class seating while installing more coach seats. United's (UAL) merger with Continental Airlines has also triggered speculation that United may abandon its first class after the merger and adopt Continental's simpler approach of flying only two cabins: business and economy.

 

United "is evaluating which configuration or configurations make the most sense based on customer demand," United spokesman Rahsaan Johnson says. "Continental has fewer 13- and 14-hour flights than United does."

 

• Australian carrier Qantas said earlier this year that it's eliminating first-class service on most of its long-haul flights except for a few flagship routes to Los Angeles and London from Australia.

 

• British Airways received delivery on some Boeing 777s last year that didn't have first class for the first time but says it will invest $150 million to upgrade existing premium seats.

 

"There's been a clear trend for long-haul international flights to reduce or eliminate first-class cabins on all but the most lucrative and competitive routes," says Bryan Saltzburg of TripAdvisor.

 

Most aircraft flying in the U.S. typically have just two cabins: economy and a premium offering labeled business or first class. Demand for first class also has remained sluggish because airlines have dramatically improved business-class service in recent years, says Matt Daimler of SeatGuru.

 

Read more: http://www.azcentral...l#ixzz12kWLyhr6

 

 

[kokopelli]

I think it is necessary to bear in mind the First Class section is something few or any of us ever have the chance to experience. Business Class has enough luxury to make international flight tolerable. Although since NWA and Delta merger the food in Business Class is crap.

[Guest beachlover]

Two things to note:

 

1. I think many Business Class products are offering today, what first class used to offer 5-10 years ago.

 

2. The rise of "Premium Economy" should be noted. Premium Economy seems to offer much of what many business class products used to offer 5-10 years ago.

 

In some cases, premium economy is so good it makes the incremental increase in value offered by business class relative to the cost increment questionable. For example, the Qantas premium economy product is rather close to its business class offering.

 

Hence, I think in a few years it may be the case that...

 

1. Airline kept adding on more value to their three product lines (first/business/economy) and increasing the price.

 

2. They went too far. Now first class has become a product, which not enough people want to pay for.

 

3. The industry has unknowingly "corrected itself" by introducing premium economy and removing first class.

 

4. Now it's back to the old three class system, except instead of being called first/business/economy, it's called business/premium economy/economy!

 

Time will tell...

[pong]

1.domestic USA does not have that much to do with Thailand.

2.In these parts of the world-Asia and the like, 1st cl. is not for Joe Common, but for people who fly on others expense: Minusters, superhigh government officials, members of the Royal family etc.

Even if you have booked and paid-you will be bumped if someone much higher in the Thai hierarchy turns up-even at last moment.

But finally I think that forums like flyertalk are better fit for these things.

[kokopelli]

Two things to note:

 

 

 

2. The rise of "Premium Economy" should be noted. Premium Economy seems to offer much of what many business class products used to offer 5-10 years ago.

 

In some cases, premium economy is so good it makes the incremental increase in value offered by business class relative to the cost increment questionable. For example, the Qantas premium economy product is rather close to its business class offering.

 

This is not my experience. I have flown Business Class 10 years ago and it is now better then before except for the food. Premium economy is a poor second (although better than economy) except for Thai Air which offers a decent premium economy seating. For those interested check out the seating for premium economy on www.seatguru.com for various airlines.

[kokopelli]

 

But finally I think that forums like flyertalk are better fit for these things.

 

Perhaps, but there is nothing else to discuss on this forum anymore.

[Guest]

First is too expensive for all but multi-millionaires or people who spend money like they are in that category.

 

A good business class seat offers everything most people need, usually including a seat that's fit to sleep on, which is the most important factor on an overnight flight to Bangkok.

Spending

[PeterRS]

I agree that most airlines have improved the business class product to the point where there is little difference with first class, apart from first having more space and slightly better F&B. Hardly surprising since it is business class that produces the most revenue for the legacy carriers. I recently flew long distance in premium economy and was not impressed. It seemed much more like the economy of the old days (25+ years ago). The only major difference was seating being 8 abreast rather than 10.

 

I find it quite interesting that most long-haul airlines have gone from 2 classes, to 3, now to 4, and back to 3 again for those where first disappears. But as airlines continue attempts to maximize revenues, I can see 4 classes becoming the norm. Business will be the new First. Premium Economy will be upgraded, and there will be yet another enhanced Economy section. That's because there

[Guest beachlover]

This is not my experience. I have flown Business Class 10 years ago and it is now better then before except for the food.

I think that's what I said... You might have misread.

 

Premium economy is a poor second (although better than economy) except for Thai Air which offers a decent premium economy seating.

Yeah, I think premium economy really varies across different carriers.

 

I recently put someone on a Qantas Premium Economy flight after a couple of Qantas business class flights and they were really impressed (not surprising since Qantas won an award for best premium economy recently).

 

They felt the only worthwhile benefit from business now is lie flat seats, which you really only need on overnight flights... But that's their opinion.

 

First is too expensive for all but multi-millionaires or people who spend money like they are in that category.

 

A good business class seat offers everything most people need, usually including a seat that's fit to sleep on, which is the most important factor on an overnight flight to Bangkok.

Totally true... First class is kind of silly money, I think. You might do it once or twice and for really long flights but not otherwise.

 

even an economy emergency row seat is OK for the daytime return flight.

I sleep fine in economy class seats. On my last overnight flight I paid $80 for an emergency row seat and slept even better. Slept 6 hours straight and didn't wake up until just before landing.

[kokopelli]

 

 

Yeah, I think premium economy really varies across different carriers.

I recently put someone on a Qantas Premium Economy flight after a couple of Qantas business class flights and they were really impressed (not surprising since Qantas won an award for best premium economy recently).

They felt the only worthwhile benefit from business now is lie flat seats, which you really only need on overnight flights... But that's their opinion. quote.

 

Premium Economy on Qantas has a pitch (distance from seat to seat) on 747s of 38"; on A380-800(the really big planes) of 38"to 42". Thai Air has a pitch of 42" on A340-500. Believe me, it is not same same as a 60"+ pitch as in Business Class. But, Thai Premium Economy is bearable even if a 17 hour flight and far cheaper then Business.

[Guest Astrrro]

The driver for these changes is that it is not always PC for execs to fly First Class which sounds like a place for the rich and famous but OK if it is labeled Business Class which sounds like a place where u can get work done.