Neighboring countries compete with Thailand for foreign retirees

[KeepItReal]

2 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Cape Town used to be very violent,  with people living behind barbed wire fences, and signs saying, 'Armed response team in 5 mins'. In our boutique hotel, in a leafy suburb on the way up to Table Mountain, we were advised not to walk 1km to a restaurant,  too dangerous  they said. The 'township', nearby, which  had over one million people, was heartbreaking. Our black waitress, who lived there had sent her 5 year old daughter away, as she was worried  that she would be raped! Her husband  had been murdered.  Have things changed?

Sure, there is crime. But there is crime everywhere. I compared Cape Town with a similar sized city in the USA, Memphis TN, Baltimore MD and found the crime rate comparable. Like most cities, there see neighborhoods you should avoid and some local knowledge will bring down the risk of being impacted by crime significantly. 

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

@reader 

And if you had the joy for working for the UN - then there is another additional separate tax regime to worry about.

Seems nice problem to be forced to deal with.

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

Sure, there is crime. But there is crime everywhere. 

But people living behind barbed wires and worried about there 5 y.o being raped is far from universal

[KeepItReal]

On 8/24/2024 at 9:23 PM, vinapu said:

But people living behind barbed wires

It's okay. You don't have to visit. I will take care of corrupting those handsome young men all by myself! It's a burden, but I shoulder it well!! 😋😋

[Olddaddy]

On 8/23/2024 at 8:54 AM, unicorn said:

My thoughts would involve wondering why, with the information given in the original post, one would want to retire in Thailand rather than in the Philippines or somewhere else entirely. In Thailand, it sounds as though one gets double-taxed, probably can't get real permanent residency status or citizenship, can't own property, and I'd have to learn an entirely new writing script, adapt to driving on the left, and so on. Probably things are no more expensive in the Philippines than in Thailand. My sense, especially from reading this forum, is that one can even express oneself more openly in the Philippines (I keep seeing references to "He who cannot be named," and to lèse-majesté laws when it comes to Thailand). 

I'm completely baffled as to why anyone would choose Thailand over the Philippines to retire, except perhaps someone coming from a country in which one drives on the left side who doesn't want to adapt to a different driving style. I'd be curious to hear any rationale as to why someone would pick Thailand over the Philippines or somewhere else less hostile to foreigners spending money there. 

I guess when I think of Philippines I think of chaos, bad infrastructure ,constant horny beeping 

I mean obviously there are areas in the Philippines which are modern but it's not progressing like Thailand 

There are areas I guess that could be "retirable" ,maybe Cebu ,Boracay ,can't think of anywhere else though 

I don't think it's "beautiful" like Thailand.

Most of the guys are Tops which is good and they like to kiss and he affectionate 

I find Filipino guys more aggressive though than Thai guys and more dominant 

[bkkmfj2648]

Hi @Olddaddy, can you please expand on why Boracay is "retirable"?

As part of my 4-4-4 plan I hope to go on an exploratory trip to The Philippines to find places that are "retirable".

I will avoid Manila for the same reasons why I could not live in Bangkok.

I will start my journey in Cebu City, as it is "near" the sea with my understanding that the Mactan - Newtown area is the most similar to Jomtien - but with the crazy traffic it can take 1 hour to reach the nice Cebu City IT Park and Business Center near the Ayala mall.

So, I am thinking that perhaps it would be better to choose a condo in one of the Cebu City high rises with a balcony view of the sea (though it is quite far off into the distance) - as opposed to a mountain view.

Does Boracay have anything similar?

I see from Twitter that there are plenty of guys available with even the "edging" fetish experience - which is almost impossible to find here in Jomtien.

[Olddaddy]

2 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Hi @Olddaddy, can you please expand on why Boracay is "retirable"?

As part of my 4-4-4 plan I hope to go on an exploratory trip to The Philippines to find places that are "retirable".

I will avoid Manila for the same reasons why I could not live in Bangkok.

I will start my journey in Cebu City, as it is "near" the sea with my understanding that the Mactan - Newtown area is the most similar to Jomtien - but with the crazy traffic it can take 1 hour to reach the nice Cebu City IT Park and Business Center near the Ayala mall.

So, I am thinking that perhaps it would be better to choose a condo in one of the Cebu City high rises with a balcony view of the sea (though it is quite far off into the distance) - as opposed to a mountain view.

Does Boracay have anything similar?

I see from Twitter that there are plenty of guys available with even the "edging" fetish experience - which is almost impossible to find here in Jomtien.

I liked some parts of Cebu ,it's like a mini Manila but more farangs and more friendly.

Constant horny beeping got to me with one morning 4am ,I was in a uber with the guy starts beeping his horn ,no other traffic around ,he is condition just to beep beep beep his horn.

So I told him ,"you know there's no traffic around ,no need to beep your horn " 

Oh he said I forget 

 

[bkkmfj2648]

@Olddaddy - can you say why Boracay is a "retirable" place ?

[vinapu]

18 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

@Olddaddy - can you say why Boracay is a "retirable" place ?

For sure they have cementary there

[bkkmfj2648]

1 minute ago, vinapu said:

For sure they have cementary there

hahahaha - but @Olddaddy never responded to my questions to him - instead I got a reply about beeping horns

perhaps I should have instead @vinapu asked @Olddaddy about the cemeteries in Cebu City and Boracay ??

I am super confused on what is the required methodology to be able to ask @Olddaddy a question?

any clues or suggestions ?

[reader]

They can't possibly beep horns any more than they do in Hanoi.

But perhaps he was more hooked on the "horny" and not the horn.

[unicorn]

11 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

hahahaha - but @Olddaddy never responded to my questions to him - instead I got a reply about beeping horns

perhaps I should have instead @vinapu asked @Olddaddy about the cemeteries in Cebu City and Boracay ??

I am super confused on what is the required methodology to be able to ask @Olddaddy a question?

any clues or suggestions ?

Try leaving him a private message. He may not be following this string. Click on the envelope icon on the upper right of this page. 

[bkkmfj2648]

an update on the original topic

https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2860812/law-to-tax-income-from-overseas-in-the-works

[reader]

 

From Pattaya Mail

EDITORIAL

Kulaya Tantitemit, director-general of the Revenue Department, has indicated to the Bangkok Post that she is preparing significant new legislation. Under current rules, effective January 2024, Thais and foreigners residing here for 180 days or more in a calendar year will be taxed on foreign-sourced, assessable income when such cash is remitted into the country, regardless of when sent. A wave of panic has set in amongst the expat community, especially pensioners, although the opinions of banking and legal experts range from a don’t worry green signal to a hot potato red. Thus “savings” are not taxable, but there is no consensus about what “savings” are, or could be.

But The Revenue, as reported in the Bangkok Post as recently as September 7, is preparing to amend the law to collect tax from any Thai or foreign resident (as defined above) who derives foreign-based income even if they do not bring such income into Thailand. This is unprecedented. The director-general justifies this move by referring to the principle of worldwide income which argues that all income earned by an individual is taxed by the country of residence. Some other south east Asian countries, including Cambodia, technically can tax the overseas income of resident aliens but choose largely to ignore the issue. For now anyway.

It is important to recognize that this latest Revenue announcement would require parliamentary approval for a clear change in the tax laws. At this stage, it is not obvious that the suggestion will receive the rubber stamp of the legislature. For example, many rich and influential Thais may dislike the notion of declaring their worldwide income wealth which remains permanently overseas. There is no timescale and no evidence that the latest proposal is under parliamentary consideration even though it was first mooted last June. There is now a new premier and Cabinet in office following the resignation of prime minister Srettha Thavisin who had originally asked the Revenue to look for ways of broadening the tax base, presumably to increase government funds to pay for populist policies.

Ms Kulaya pointed out that the proposed rule changes will depend on international cooperation and information exchange as Thailand is already a member of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development for tax information exchange amongst countries. There are many other complications too. For example, foreign holders of the 10-year Long Term Residence visa are exempt from taxation on foreign income remitted to Thailand, a very popular marketing ploy. However, they may not be exempt from worldwide income not remitted to Thailand unless a special clause was included in any legislation.

Many of Pattaya Mail’s readers are older foreigners living here mainly or wholly on pension income and inheritances which have already been taxed in the home country. They are aware of double taxation treaties, but mostly unaware of the complex detail in 61 very different agreements and what they actually mean. The Revenue could now or in the future ignore income under double taxation arrangements, or alternatively argue that any tax paid to the home country is merely a “credit” to put alongside any further tax liability in Thailand. Generally speaking, Thai taxes are more expensive than, say, those in the US or the UK in most categories. Our advice to readers at the moment is to wait for clarification, if any, on the grounds that any tax due for 2024 is not due for collection until January-March 2025. Thailand is no stranger to surprise announcements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bkkmfj2648]

12 minutes ago, reader said:

Our advice to readers at the moment is to wait for clarification, if any, on the grounds that any tax due for 2024 is not due for collection until January-March 2025. Thailand is no stranger to surprise announcements.

and this is the part that I do not agree with.

If you wait too long then you won't have time to properly implement a proper tax minimalization plan.

Phase 1 of the new tax regime (possibility that funds that you transfer into Thailand from abroad are deemed as "assessable income" IF you are a tax resident) is already effective since 01-Jan-2024.

This additional proposal is to tax your global foreign-based income -> even if not brought into Thailand is truly unprecendented.

16 minutes ago, reader said:

preparing to amend the law to collect tax from any Thai or foreign resident (as defined above) who derives foreign-based income even if they do not bring such income into Thailand. This is unprecedented.

If you already live here and are planning to take advantage of the idea to avoid being a tax resident (you do not reside in Thailand for more than 180 days in a calendar year), then you need to get busy to determine where you will live for 181 days outside of Thailand.

My 4-4-4 plan is to live only 4 months in Thailand during 2025, 4 months in Vietnam, and 4 months in The Philippines.  Then I will intentionally top up my Thai bank account in 2025 for expenses occurred in both years 2025 and 2026.  This strategy will allow me to live for the full 12 months in Thailand in year 2026 - where I will be deemed as a tax resident - but I will not have any assessable income in 2026 - as it was brought into Thailand in year 2025 when I was not a tax resident.

This strategy, can go out the window, depending on what Thailand will do regarding our global income that is earned outside of Thailand.

For now, I am hoping to buy time and to learn about retirement life in Vietnam and The Philippines to keep my options open.

[bkkmfj2648]

Sexy Jett Gunther (Bangkok realtor and former journalist with The Thaiger), recently interviewed Thomas Carden on his Youtube channel, from AIT (American International Tax Advisers) - This is the same tax expert that I saw his presentation that was made back in June at the PCEC (Pattaya City Expat Club).

 

[reader]

Finally someone who knows exactly what he talking about!

If I found myself in this situation, his firm would be my fist stop.

[bkkmfj2648]

53 minutes ago, reader said:

If I found myself in this situation, his firm would be my fist stop.

I agree @reader - I already chatted with Mr. Thomas Carden at the PCEC meeting about my 4-4-4 plan, which he fully endorsed.

However, that tax minimalization strategy only worked with the Thailand Revenue Department change that was introduced effective 01-Jan-2024 regarding the current "Remittance Based Territorial Tax Regime".  Unfortunately, it won't work once Thailand introduces the above mentioned transition:

• from a "Remittance Based Territorial Tax Regime" - which would require me to stay out of Thailand for 181 days in year 2025, top up my Thai bank account in 2025, and then stay for the full year in Thailand in year 2026.
• to a "Worldwide Global Tax Regime" - the implementation of this would negate the possibility to stay in Thailand for more than 180 days in 2026 (or any year for that matter) - because of the Global Income element - which looks at income outside of Thailand and does not care when it would be remitted into Thailand, like the above tax minimalization option allows for.

The article implies that the Hi-So of Thailand may try to block the implementation of the "Worldwide Global Tax Regime", but I read on another forum that the OECD is strongly pushing Thailand to adopt this tax regime - as it was delayed when Thailand was under the military ruled junta - which ignored outside influences on Thailand - so the OECD (and some say even the WEF) are putting extreme pressure on Thailand to hurry up and catch up and adopt this tax regime.

[Keithambrose]

2 hours ago, reader said:

Finally someone who knows exactly what he talking about!

If I found myself in this situation, his firm would be my fist stop.

Bit kinky?

[reader]

22 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

Bit kinky?

How so?

[bkkmfj2648]

34 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

his firm would be my fist stop.

 outch

[reader]

LOL 😊

 

[bkkmfj2648]

Interesting opinion piece from Ben Hart - an American attorney who became a Thai citizen regarding the new proposed global taxation issue --> he calls it, "Kill the Golden Goose"

 

 

[reader]

From Pattaya Mail

tax reform and the Golden Goose

By Barry Kenyon

Integrity Legal, an influential network of law firms in USA and Asia, has condemned the proposal of the Thai Revenue Department to tax Thai and foreign residents on their worldwide income irrespective of whether those monies are brought to Thailand. The current regulations (effective January 2024) permit only the taxing of “assessable” income actually transferred from abroad.

In their latest video, the Bangkok-based firm points out that a worldwide policy ruling would strongly deter investment in Thailand, especially as Thai Revenue has no actual jurisdiction to control assets outside the country. If such a radical policy were to be introduced, it would first require a formal change in Thai law which is by no means a formality.

Meanwhile Pichai Chunhavajira, the finance minister delivering a keynote address Shaping Tomorrow, said that current personal and corporate income tax rates remain higher than in competition countries and should be rejigged. He made no mention of the income tax situation for Thai and foreign tax residents. Not a single government spokesperson so far has endorsed, or even commented on, the Revenue’s radical proposal to tax worldwide income, even though first mooted last June.

Social media in Thailand has prophecies that the issuing of annual extensions of stay are about to become dependent on income tax clearance in Thailand. There has been no confirmation from the Cabinet or the immigration bureau. Such a policy would present all manner of problems. For example, many holders of longterm visas, such as Elite, spend less than six months per year in Thailand, whilst notional tourists can easily exploit the new visa exempt rules to clock up more than 180 days in a calendar year. A person’s visa status does not magically show tax liability, or the lack of it.

Thai Revenue, of course, has the role of recommending courses of action to increase national tax income. However, Integrity Legal’s warning that the Golden Goose is in danger of self-assassination illustrates the threat of continuing silence by government ministers or the Cabinet. As many expats threaten to quit living here and the national economy continues to struggle, the need for proper debate is already well overdue.

 

[bkkmfj2648]

29 minutes ago, reader said:

However, Integrity Legal’s warning that the Golden Goose is in danger of self-assassination illustrates the threat of continuing silence by government ministers or the Cabinet. As many expats threaten to quit living here and the national economy continues to struggle, the need for proper debate is already well overdue.

Thanks @reader for sharing this with us.  The last 2 sentences rightly sums up the dilemma.

In my opinion, this NOT the time to for the Thai government to play the game of:  "Mum's the word"