Bangkok & Pattaya October / November 2024

[spoon]

When discussion about tips, there are two parts of this. One is the quoted rate, and accepted rate by the boy if there is haggling down. Another is anything above quoted or agreed amount after service has beend done. While the former miggt have a general going rate based on location or local/foreigner or twink/hunks etc, the later is totally up to the discretion of the customer. 

Both parts will be driven by the market forces. The more of the supply available, going rate might be cheaper, and vice versa. The more generous customers willing to pay higher tips than going rate, i firmly believe itll make the service provider work harder for next time, and will keep them around longer in the business too. Furthermore, this will also entice more new comers to come to the scene, as they know the rewards are great.

When i see people complaining about lack of boys, newer guys no longer interested working in sex industry etc, maybe its the pittance of a tip they gets is to be blamed. If 1.5k baht is the rate 12 years ago, and people now only want to pay 700, do we expect more guys will want to work for less? 

On the other spectrum, we now also have those instafamous, influencer, onlyfans creator etc who charges quite high rate to hire them, and for me, that is also totally understandable. 

Do i think higher rate equals better quality service? In my narrow personal experience, yes, especially on subsequent meets. Will higher rate change my decision to hire them again? Yes. If its too expensive even for me, i wont be taking him as many times id want. For example, i couldve taken him 4 times in a trip if he charges 1k less, but only take him 3 times. 

Again, i agree that tips should go hand in hand with inflation and it is what will keep replenish new guys on the scene. If i know anyone who overpay, i should thank them for the incentive they gives to keep guys who gives great services to maintain in the industry so i can enjoy the guy too in the future hehe.

[bkkmfj2648]

5 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

How can you expect still to pay the same as more than 10yrs ago? 

Thank you for having the courage to write this @emiel1981 as this is something that BURNS my ass when I see that some people want to underpay our guys - especially after 10 years of static prices.  Inflation is REAL and I am sure that many of the visitors here to LOS have received inflation raises in their salaries and/or pensions - so why shouldn't our guys merit an inflation increase after 10 years.

After living here in Pattaya for 2 years now as a new retiree, I see first hand how our guys struggle - especially during the low season when the Jomtien Supertown Complex is a ghost town and our guys still need to eat, pay the rent, live their lives, etc.

We need to remember that in the prior year's low season that there were 6 suicides.  This year I have not heard of any new suicides.

Let's give our guys a break - they deserve it.

[Olddaddy]

6 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

Also: offering a boy 700baht and him accepting this, is that just making a good deal or is it maybe using the boy because he is desperate for some money

It's a business transaction,just same as you go on Airtasker for a painter or plumber ,you offer a price ,they can decline or accept 

I don't know their financial background 

[reader]

For one hour massage sessions in shops with minimum tip or no stated minimum, I use 1k as the basic starting point and supplement it upward for very satisfactory service. I use same scale in SK or Silom. 

I definitely prefer shops with stated minimums because they’ve telling you what is the accepted going rate. 

its not rocket science.

 

[Keithambrose]

3 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Thank you for having the courage to write this @emiel1981 as this is something that BURNS my ass when I see that some people want to underpay our guys - especially after 10 years of static prices.  Inflation is REAL and I am sure that many of the visitors here to LOS have received inflation raises in their salaries and/or pensions - so why shouldn't our guys merit an inflation increase after 10 years.

After living here in Pattaya for 2 years now as a new retiree, I see first hand how our guys struggle - especially during the low season when the Jomtien Supertown Complex is a ghost town and our guys still need to eat, pay the rent, live their lives, etc.

We need to remember that in the prior year's low season that there were 6 suicides.  This year I have not heard of any new suicides.

Let's give our guys a break - they deserve it.

You make very good points, as does Spoon and emiel1981. To say, as Olddaddy does, that it's a business transaction, misses the point. I have said before that the idea of screwing a boy down (pun intended), to a ludicrously low level, is unacceptable, in my view, especially boasting about it on line. So I'm with you on this.

[vinapu]

10 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

Funny to see boy prices almost always lead to (small) discussions

because somebody else's money always generates a lot of heat.

My habit is always to ask boy up front how much he wants. If he quotes too low, nothing stops me from giving him few satangs more at end of session. If he quotes high I either bargain down or end discussion politely. But I like to settle financial beforehand.

Hate money discussion in the room and mercifully it almost never happens but had few cases when guy agreed on compensation and then tried to extract more under some pretext. Death sentence in my eyes.

On another hand we should accept that boys have their own calculation what constitutes good or bad deal for them  as they know better their circumstances. Thus not always 700 is exploitation   and not always,  say 4000 , is greed as he may have in his sight even more generous / naive customer.

[vinapu]

10 hours ago, emiel1981 said:

 

After round trip in China, Hong Kong and Vietnam I will be back in Bangkok 4 more nights before heading home. Probably will write something about these Bangkok nights also next month. 

Have fun there and let us know how you are doing from time to time. Bangkok waits for you impatiently

[Olddaddy]

I find the boys nowadays far different from the boys 20 years ago

Now it's all business ,nothing personal just business 

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, Olddaddy said:

I find the boys nowadays far different from the boys 20 years ago

Now it's all business ,nothing personal just business 

There wasn't an iPhone yet....gotta maintain their status, it's much more important today than back then.

That's just one example........... sex is transactional with them, so be it.

TONS of stories about how when the shoe is on the other foot, where the guy has the upper hand and we bend to their needs/desires..... not always with a satisfactory outcome........it's a 2 way street.... if they blow your mind in sex, no need to get like a little school girl and start throwing cash at them either, see if round 2 or 3 are as good, and take it from there.

Or why stop at 2k in Pattaya... buy a motorbike, laptop or a 3 baht gold chain... if you're going to be generous, do it, lol

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, floridarob said:

Or why stop at 2k in Pattaya... buy a motorbike, laptop or a 3 baht gold chain... if you're going to be generous, do it, lol

and why not if that makes donor/ customer happy and feeling better ?

I don't know about laptop and gold chain but know boys who got motorcycle ( not motorbike, mind you ) and another who got new Iphone .

Nothing wrong in paying well over market and be generous if one can afford it. I , for one , don't buy BS that such customers are spoiling market for others. Boys  know real market conditions and won't be spoiled by such rare experience.

On another hand there's crooked  ethics of such over-generosity  - there are probably more deserving people with more pressing needs than young and strong men who can easily make a living by honest work, and yes by that I mean also prostituting for fair, market rate.

 

15 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

... this is something that BURNS my ass when I see that some people want to underpay our guys ......

......... and our guys still need to eat, pay the rent, live their lives, etc.

15 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Let's give our guys a break - they deserve it.

I  can't agree with you more and at the same time disagree as strongly as I can.

As I said above , nothing wrong with being generous , even very generous as definitely we can afford it (otherwise we wouldn't be there) and it's nothing wrong with making other happy.

On another hand guys themselves must be first to remember they need to eat , pay the rent , live their lives , etc. Those things are needed to be paid for and it's why boys went for their type of carrier.

In order to make money, like every person in business they need to strive to provide acceptable services at competitive price.  Skipping on their promised obligations, cutting on time under stupid excuses, asking for money without any effort to provide anything in exchange are not good business practices.

After last trip when I encounter that type of behavior almost every second day I'm no longer willing to be bleeding heart for boy's troubles as I suspect lots of them are self inflicted wounds.

  It's very hard to feel for guy who I treated with generous supper before our LT session and then as early as next evening he is asking me for money claiming he did not eat for two days because he did not have customers. Oops I'd say.

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

I find the boys nowadays far different from the boys 20 years ago

Now it's all business ,nothing personal just business 

No wonder 'old' in part of your nick.

I's all business now and it was all business back in 2001, year of my first trip. Then in bar one met grumbling guys who were saying the same , comparing it to 80-ties

Sure ,  we may have an impression they were more affective  then  but reason for that is in mirror in comparison to old photos.

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, reader said:

For one hour massage sessions in shops with minimum tip or no stated minimum, I use 1k as the basic starting point and supplement it upward for very satisfactory service. I use same scale in SK or Silom. 

I definitely prefer shops with stated minimums because they’ve telling you what is the accepted going rate. 

 

+1

same same here, 1000/1hr, 1500/1.5 hrs that my benchmark unless minimum tip is stated higher. If it's lower I still pay my benchmark at least.

Even in more upscale places  like Jey or Senso ,  most guys state as their minimum acceptable 1500-2000 for 1.5 hr session

[Keithambrose]

4 hours ago, vinapu said:

and why not if that makes donor/ customer happy and feeling better ?

I don't know about laptop and gold chain but know boys who got motorcycle ( not motorbike, mind you ) and another who got new Iphone .

Nothing wrong in paying well over market and be generous if one can afford it. I , for one , don't buy BS that such customers are spoiling market for others. Boys  know real market conditions and won't be spoiled by such rare experience.

On another hand there's crooked  ethics of such over-generosity  - there are probably more deserving people with more pressing needs than young and strong men who can easily make a living by honest work, and yes by that I mean also prostituting for fair, market rate.

 

I  can't agree with you more and at the same time disagree as strongly as I can.

As I said above , nothing wrong with being generous , even very generous as definitely we can afford it (otherwise we wouldn't be there) and it's nothing wrong with making other happy.

On another hand guys themselves must be first to remember they need to eat , pay the rent , live their lives , etc. Those things are needed to be paid for and it's why boys went for their type of carrier.

In order to make money, like every person in business they need to strive to provide acceptable services at competitive price.  Skipping on their promised obligations, cutting on time under stupid excuses, asking for money without any effort to provide anything in exchange are not good business practices.

After last trip when I encounter that type of behavior almost every second day I'm no longer willing to be bleeding heart for boy's troubles as I suspect lots of them are self inflicted wounds.

  It's very hard to feel for guy who I treated with generous supper before our LT session and then as early as next evening he is asking me for money claiming he did not eat for two days because he did not have customers. Oops I'd say.

I think skipping on obligations,  suddenly  finding the family buffalo has died, etc, is a different  issue from scewing the price down to an unacceptably low level. I  find a common one comment now is they they need to pay the rent.  I have no problem  with ignoring that, or even cutting off the guy, even if he was good. I have had same issues in UK,  where, to be fair, the rent is much higher!

[reader]

43 minutes ago, Keithambrose said:

I think skipping on obligations,  suddenly  finding the family buffalo has died, etc, is a different  issue from scewing the price down to an unacceptably low level. I!

+1

I’ve posted about this in the past but it bears repeating. I know many incidents in the standard Silom shops (where there aren’t any minimum tips) where punters will tip zero to 100 baht. Many of the boys will hand it back to them. I know these boys personally and know their service level is high. 
 

[bkkmfj2648]

1 hour ago, Keithambrose said:

I think skipping on obligations,  suddenly  finding the family buffalo has died, etc, is a different  issue from scewing the price down to an unacceptably low level. I  find a common one comment now is they they need to pay the rent.  I have no problem  with ignoring that, or even cutting off the guy, even if he was good. I have had same issues in UK,  where, to be fair, the rent is much higher!

Thank you @Keithambrose for supporting the sensitivity of this delicate topic that deserves dignity for our guys.

https://digitalcommons.uri.edu/dignity/vol2/iss4/10/

Click on the hyperlink once the above document opens to see the actual study/report that is some 30 pages long.  It mainly focuses on the male sex industry in Chiang Mai, with its peculiar set of demographics, but in my opinion applies to all of Thailand.

My hope is that if you are sincere and take the time to read it you will truly begin to understand the plight of our guys that give us comfort, that in my opinion, also deserve our protection and nurturing from the nasty side of this industry.

 

1 hour ago, reader said:

I’ve posted about this in the past but it bears repeating. I know many incidents in the standard Silom shops (where there aren’t any minimum tips) where punters will tip zero to 100 baht. Many of the boys will hand it back to them. I know these boys personally and know their service level is high. 

+2 @reader - yes this is VERY true.  The same is true here in the local Jomtien massage shops where the guys are VERY vulnerable to ignorance and/or cheapness by the visiting punters - especially if the masseur is working freelance, where his ONLY source of income are from the customer tips {above mentioned report in the .pdf document states this several times}.  As I have written before in other forum posts about this topic I blame the massage shops for not indoctrinating the incoming customer on the expected tip culture for said massage shop.  I note that in BKK that often when you sit down with the manager to select your massage oil, masseur, desired program, etc. the manager will often explain the expected tipping culture or show you a placard which clearly states it - in this way the masseur is protected from cultural ignorance of the customer and/or stinginess.  Unfortunately, this practice is almost non-existent here in Jomtien and then there is noone to protect our local masseurs.

And some of my local massuer friends have told me that one of the questions that they first ask to the prospective punter is, "where do you come from?", and if it is a certain set of countries then they will know to only expect a 20 to 100 baht tip for 60 minutes of work - so, sometimes they will decline the customer and/or try to explain to them the expected tip - but that is difficult, as the punter will then make a verbal fuss - thus creating a potentially confrontational situation which Thai people hate - as that goes against their cultural upbringing.  Therefore, if the shop manager would do like they do back in BKK this problem could be alleviated.

[kram987]

Thanks to all for interesting info.  I will drive in about two weeks for my first visit in 5 years,  so have been busy lurking on these pages for info.

[floridarob]

19 hours ago, vinapu said:

I , for one , don't buy BS that such customers are spoiling market for others.

I've experienced it so many times over the years when we're discussing prices and they say, such and such a client pays thousands to just watch him J/O, or talks about the iPhone they bought, other gifts.or something along those lines, to which my canned reply is I'm not him...... business is business...

[vinapu]

12 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

As I have written before in other forum posts about this topic I blame the massage shops for not indoctrinating the incoming customer on the expected tip culture for said massage shop.

 ........

And some of my local massuer friends have told me that one of the questions that they first ask to the prospective punter is, "where do you come from?",

very good points.

No doubt shops not informing people  about minimum tips are doing disservice to both their guys and clients.

We may assume that most tourists are doing their part about learning customs of host country but it's hard from universal in my opinion. Specially in this age when every information seems to be at fingertips, people are neglecting to do their homework about their destination , not only sex industry related. 

A lot of tourists may be knowingly  playing stupid , claiming they assumed that 500 massage fee includes everything , boys compensation included, thus declining further tip and even pretending to be offended that tip was required but I'm sure there will be those  from non-tipping culture which  sincerely assume price is all in , just like in Japan. And in more expensive places  like Jey , Senso , Prince , VCK or Glam with massage fees in excess of 1000   they may be partially absolved. 

So I agree , shops and boys should be doing better job informing clinets about their obligations and tipping practices.

...................

good to know that boys are more assertive in their own , well understood interest.

When I contacted Grindr guy in May about coming to my room , his first question was " will you give me money?"

 

[vinapu]

19 minutes ago, floridarob said:

I've experienced it so many times over the years when we're discussing prices and they say, such and such a client pays thousands to just watch him J/O, or talks about the iPhone they bought, other gifts.or something along those lines, to which my canned reply is I'm not him...... business is business...

all true , all good as long as boy is compensated fairly, not cheaply, fairly.

always in my mind will stay situation from BBB where my intended boy was kept by lady customer as drinking companion for whole evening  an at end of that session was tipped princely 100 baht   (one hundred ).

But I guess those situations are levelling of with excessively generous customers. The same boy showed me another night his semi- permanent customer, Malaysian ship captain,  who pays him  3000 or 4000 just for in-the -room drinking session, both dressed. 

[vinapu]

14 hours ago, reader said:

I know many incidents in the standard Silom shops (where there aren’t any minimum tips) where punters will tip zero to 100 baht. Many of the boys will hand it back to them. I know these boys personally and know their service level is high. 
 

hopefully from time to time some generous prince appears and will lavish , say, newest IPhone on lucky boy. Rarely but it does happen.

[bkkmfj2648]

2 hours ago, vinapu said:

always in my mind will stay situation from BBB where my intended boy was kept by lady customer as drinking companion for whole evening  an at end of that session was tipped princely 100 baht   (one hundred ).

That guy would earn 100 baht in 5 minutes when he would be enchanted with the famous "Vinapu tuck" experience.

and he would not need to sit with a lady customer all night long getting drunk, which could lead to the possibility of not being able to perform in bed should he be offed.

[vinapu]

36 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

That guy would earn 100 baht in 5 minutes when he would be enchanted with the famous "Vinapu tuck" experience.

and he would not need to sit with a lady customer all night long getting drunk, which could lead to the possibility of not being able to perform in bed should he be offed.

I wanted off him for a massage so it would be 1500 at least , usually  I don't do " tuck"  to boys I'm intended to off given night.

[reader]

My stays are long so I have to apply some self discipline when it comes to renumeration. I’ve just about given up bar offs for the pleasures of massage. I have fixed upper limit and I remain within it, regardless of how attractive the masseur. The older I get the more I’ve come to acknowledge that I don’t have to have the most handsome guy with best body. Perfectly satisfied with time-proven guy whose company makes me happy. Perfectly content to leave models to big spenders.
 

[floridarob]

2 hours ago, reader said:

t I don’t have to have the most handsome guy with best body. Perfectly satisfied with time-proven guy whose company makes me happy.

My best sex has usually been with guy next door types....the better looking, the more time they spend looking in the mirror 🤷‍♂️

[Scott_UK]

32 minutes ago, floridarob said:

My best sex has usually been with guy next door types....the better looking, the more time they spend looking in the mirror 🤷‍♂️

Yeah, often the case!