reader Posted July 31 Posted July 31 From TechCrunch A federal district court in New York has ruled that U.S. border agents must obtain a warrant before searching the electronic devices of Americans and international travelers crossing the U.S. border. The ruling on July 24 is the latest court opinion to upend the U.S. government’s long-standing legal argument, which asserts that federal border agents should be allowed to access the devices of travelers at ports of entry, like airports, seaports and land borders, without a court-approved warrant. Civil liberties groups who advocated for the ruling praised the judgment. “The ruling makes clear that border agents need a warrant before they can access what the Supreme Court has called ‘a window into a person’s life,’” Scott Wilkens, senior counsel at the Knight First Amendment Institute, one of the groups that filed in the case, said in a press release Friday. The district court’s ruling takes effect across the U.S. Eastern District of New York, which includes New York City-area airports like John F. Kennedy International Airport, one of the largest transportation hubs in the United States. A spokesperson for U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), the agency responsible for border security, said it was “reviewing” the court’s decision. “CBP cannot comment on pending criminal cases, and will continue performing its vital national security mission consistent with law and policy,” said CBP spokesperson Justin Long. The court ruling regards a criminal case involving Kurbonali Sultanov, a U.S. citizen whose phone was taken by border agents at JFK Airport in 2022 and told to provide his password, which Sultanov did when officers told him that he had no choice. Sultanov later moved to suppress the evidence — alleged to be child sexual abuse material — taken from his phone by arguing that the search violated his Fourth Amendment rights. The U.S. border is a legally fuzzy space, where international travelers have almost no right to privacy and where Americans can also face intrusive searches. The U.S. government asserts unique powers and authorities at the border, such as conducting device searches without a warrant, which law enforcement cannot normally use against someone who had crossed onto U.S. soil without first convincing a judge of enough suspicion to justify the search. Continues at https://techcrunch.com/2024/07/29/us-border-agents-must-get-warrant-before-cell-phone-searches-federal-court-rules/ vinapu and KeepItReal 1 1 Quote
vinapu Posted July 31 Posted July 31 step in the right direction for sure. Under pretext of antiterrorist measures and later sexual exploitation and fighting human trafficking slowly but surely , one by one , we are being spied by the states to extend Hitler and Stalin only could dream about. Do not assume that if you don't have anything compromising you are good to go. Once I was made subject of extensive search only because agent got suspicious why my travel diary has baby ( fully dressed, relax) on it's cover. " Interesting" was his comment when I explained that it was first thing on the shelf when I was buying one. Another case was coming from Lithuania but agent took an interest in my Thai and Cambodian stamps in passport and pulled me aside for further questioning why I go there so often. Even me being assertive with remark ' office , I'm coming from Lithuania, not Cambodia" did not stop him from asking to go through my pictures on the camera ( I did not have smartphone then ). Gave up fast after seeing all that baroque Vilnius churches and gothic Trakai castle No, it was not on American border so no sense singling USA out. When I remark sometimes that I fondly recall my crossings to USSR in it's day , believe you me , I'm sincere . xpaulo, floridarob and reader 3 Quote
Mavica Posted August 1 Posted August 1 15 hours ago, reader said: A federal district court in New York has ruled that U.S. border agents must obtain a warrant before searching the electronic devices of Americans and international travelers crossing the U.S. border. Yes. Why not? Quote
vinapu Posted August 1 Posted August 1 2 minutes ago, Mavica said: Yes. Why not? up to now agent's answer would be ' because" Mavica and floridarob 1 1 Quote
Mavica Posted August 1 Posted August 1 1 minute ago, vinapu said: up to now agent's answer would be ' because" Agreed. All of us - without regard to political leanings - should question the power exerted by agents of governments. If there's sufficient cause to invade our privacy, let that be shown to an authority higher than a Border agent or local police officer. Quote
Members unicorn Posted August 1 Members Posted August 1 Great news for escorts who come to the US. I'm not sure if that applies to laptops or tablets... Quote
thaiophilus Posted August 1 Posted August 1 21 hours ago, reader said: The U.S. government asserts unique powers and authorities at the border, such as conducting device searches without a warrant, which law enforcement cannot normally use against someone who had crossed onto U.S. soil without first convincing a judge of enough suspicion to justify the search. Because of that, my former employer had an absolute rule: no employee was to carry company-owned IT (smartphones, laptops, whatever) across the US border under any circumstances. Going to the US on business? Once safely across the border, buy a new device, connect to the corporate VPN and download whatever you need. Before returning, wipe and discard the device. vinapu 1 Quote
KeepItReal Posted August 1 Posted August 1 1 hour ago, thaiophilus said: Because of that, my former employer had an absolute rule: no employee was to carry company-owned IT (smartphones, laptops, whatever) across the US border under any circumstances. Going to the US on business? Once safely across the border, buy a new device, connect to the corporate VPN and download whatever you need. Before returning, wipe and discard the device. That is a little extreme - were they drug dealers?? 🤭 unicorn and Mavica 2 Quote
thaiophilus Posted August 1 Posted August 1 no, but they had learned the hard way "what They don't know can't be used against you" Mavica 1 Quote
Mavica Posted August 1 Posted August 1 I think most immigration agents have the authority to examine electronic devices. I've traveled to Canada and twice underwent secondary inspection during which I was instructed to turn-on my laptop, iPad and Cellphone ... and provide my e-mail password. About an hour after each inspection I was on my way, without difficulty. Riobard 1 Quote
Members unicorn Posted August 1 Members Posted August 1 29 minutes ago, Mavica said: ... I've traveled to Canada and twice underwent secondary inspection... I will agree that Canadian customs and immigration can be among the most obnoxious on the planet. Do you have any idea why you've gotten such thorough inspections? Have you had similar issues in other countries? floridarob, Riobard, TMax and 1 other 3 1 Quote
Members Riobard Posted August 2 Members Posted August 2 3 hours ago, unicorn said: I will agree that Canadian customs and immigration can be among the most obnoxious on the planet. “Yannick, he swears he’s the guy from Dances With Wolves but I’m not buying it!” unicorn 1 Quote
xpaulo Posted August 2 Posted August 2 On 7/31/2024 at 10:36 AM, vinapu said: Do not assume that if you don't have anything compromising Absolutely! Last year, I was referred for secondary screening for the first time in my life coming home to Canada because I was away for six weeks and only had a small carry on suitcase. That was because on a previous trip to Barcelona I got dizzy going up two long staircases in a subway station with a regular carry on suitcase. I have some heart issues and decided to downsize my bag to the minimum. Fortunately it was a woman officer who went through my stuff, rather than a macho punk like the one who decided I was suspicious. Mavica, Riobard, TMax and 2 others 3 1 1 Quote
Members unicorn Posted August 2 Members Posted August 2 4 hours ago, xpaulo said: Absolutely! Last year, I was referred for secondary screening for the first time in my life coming home to Canada ... Yikes. I didn't realize what jerks they could be even with their own citizens. But they were nice with us when we flew into Victoria 2 months ago. I was dreading the experience, but we just went through, like we usually do in all other countries. Quote
Moses Posted August 2 Posted August 2 21 hours ago, thaiophilus said: Because of that, my former employer had an absolute rule: no employee was to carry company-owned IT (smartphones, laptops, whatever) across the US border under any circumstances. Going to the US on business? Once safely across the border, buy a new device, connect to the corporate VPN and download whatever you need. Before returning, wipe and discard the device. You may use cloud storage. Backup everything to the cloud (better two: manufacturer's cloud + Google cloud), then wipe gadget to factory setup - like it was at time when you bought it, then cross border and restore phone data from cloud. unicorn and Riobard 1 1 Quote
Members Riobard Posted August 2 Members Posted August 2 I have been searched twice as a Canadian entrant. One was fun because the young Montreal Little Italy hunk asked me why my upper left cheek muscle (my face, pigs) seemed to be involuntarily twitching; it happens when sleep-deprived. He wrapped things up after he asked me to open the toiletry kit containing douche bulb, a few salt packets, KY, condoms, and an aquarium motor. The other inspection was a very pleasant sociable young woman who, similarly, endured the toiletry bag exposure, but with a contraband undeclared apple packed to avoid bruising. No Apple phone inspection and not asked to activate it. Apple not confiscated. 90% of secondary inspections are triggered by the electronic kiosk stage. Human agents override about 60% of them. So the majority were already primed and a minority of the first majority are deemed search-worthy according to discretion. Therefore, your chances of being considered to be suspicious yet not searched are far greater than being subject to secondary inspection based purely on officer discretion. If you are not arriving as an Iranian or Jamaican national there is not much worth grousing about. Quote
Members Riobard Posted August 2 Members Posted August 2 6 hours ago, Moses said: You may use cloud storage. Backup everything to the cloud (better two: manufacturer's cloud + Google cloud), then wipe gadget to factory setup - like it was at time when you bought it, then cross border and restore phone data from cloud. Yeah, that’s the kind of strategy that triggers border inspection “accidents”. Apart from the fact that I refuse to voluntarily live in a world that requires that level of absurdity. Quote
Keithambrose Posted August 2 Posted August 2 16 hours ago, unicorn said: I will agree that Canadian customs and immigration can be among the most obnoxious on the planet. Do you have any idea why you've gotten such thorough inspections? Have you had similar issues in other countries? Sorry to hear that. I have never had problems. Last year when I went through Toronto, everything seemed to be done by machine! Quote
Members Riobard Posted August 2 Members Posted August 2 12 hours ago, xpaulo said: Absolutely! Last year, I was referred for secondary screening for the first time in my life coming home to Canada because I was away for six weeks and only had a small carry on suitcase. That was because on a previous trip to Barcelona I got dizzy going up two long staircases in a subway station with a regular carry on suitcase. I have some heart issues and decided to downsize my bag to the minimum. Fortunately it was a woman officer who went through my stuff, rather than a macho punk like the one who decided I was suspicious. I hope your heart condition is stable or improves. Sciatic muscle spasm inclination is my Kryptonite if I cannot rely on bag wheels. I have mapped out a unique yet quick way to get by subway from El Prat to lodgings with minimal endless corridor and staircase luggage hauling. Quote
vinapu Posted August 2 Posted August 2 9 hours ago, Moses said: You may use cloud storage. Backup everything to the cloud (better two: manufacturer's cloud + Google cloud), then wipe gadget to factory setup - like it was at time when you bought it, then cross border and restore phone data from cloud. while smart it may raise another set of scrutiny - who carries phone without anything on it , specially when it looks well used already ? KeepItReal and Mavica 2 Quote
TMax Posted August 2 Posted August 2 Well guys good luck coming into Australia then, coming back after one trip to Thailand the customs in Perth took me aside for an electronic search (first time ever for me), handed over the phone, camera and even offered up the laptop but they didn't bother with the laptop (nothing that would interest them on it anyway) and shortly returned with phone and camera with nothing found. Talking with the lady customs officer, she explained that they were mostly looking for porn as that was the whole conversation and I have absolutely no doubt as to what "type" of porn they were looking for, the nasty illegal type. I never have issues with electronic searches or even customs searches in general so they can search all they want, hell I'll even volunteer to do a strip search for them reader 1 Quote
xpaulo Posted August 3 Posted August 3 9 hours ago, Riobard said: I hope your heart condition is stable or improves. It's working normally now and I think the dizzy periods I get are from the medication. I inherited a weak heart muscle that in itself is not a killer, but can trigger heart failure in conjunction with things like cocaine use, excessive alcohol use or illnesses. TMax 1 Quote
vinapu Posted August 3 Posted August 3 4 hours ago, TMax said: ... hell I'll even volunteer to do a strip search for them I did not know you are so cruel TMax 1 Quote
Members unicorn Posted August 3 Members Posted August 3 6 hours ago, TMax said: ... Talking with the lady customs officer, she explained that they were mostly looking for porn... Is porn illegal in Australia? I know that in the US, the issue has been escorts who come in on a tourist visa, but have evidence on their phone that they had appointments set up to do escort work, in violation of their visas. I can't imagine that just having porn (among consenting adults, of course) on one's phone is illegal. After all, it's available to anyone with internet access. vinapu 1 Quote
TMax Posted August 3 Posted August 3 1 hour ago, unicorn said: Is porn illegal in Australia? Only when trying to bring it through customs at airports without declaring it, people can still by legal porn DVD's in shops but what they are mostly looking for at airports are the illegal type like beastiality and under-age porn, rape etc (or in customs language "questionable material"). A young guy was caught last year brining in porn that he recorded of himself and Thai bargirls (all legal age) but he failed to declare it and got in a bit of trouble for not declaring it. The electronic searches by customs are also done randomly. vinapu 1 Quote