The New Airport Link BKK-City: What a Mess!

[Guest YardenUK]

Comparing Thailand to Singapore seems unfair - it is like comparing France to Monaco.

 

I am sure if we compare the Thailand of today with the Thailand of 3 or 4 decades ago, there is an incredible tangible improvement in so many spheres of life, not least transport infrastructure.

 

Yes there are inherent political issues than continue to resurface in various guises, and corruption is still part and parcel of everyday life for so many Thais, but overall I feel that Thailand has come on leaps and bounds in only a few decades, and I like to give due credit where credit is due.

[Guest beachlover]

I think you need to take a closer look at some of Thailand's neighbors. As successful as say Cambodia, Burma and Laos...that successful????

 

The first line, which I was quoting was comparing it to Singapore.

 

Having said that, Thailand is certainly more successful than the three you mentioned... Not that out-doing Cambodia or Burma, with the disasters these countries turned into, is an especially great feat.

 

Thailand is fairly successful in its own right, but it still has a long way to go, as the article mentions.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

The first line, which I was quoting was comparing it to Singapore.

 

Having said that, Thailand is certainly more successful than the three you mentioned... Not that out-doing Cambodia or Burma, with the disasters these countries turned into, is an especially great feat.

 

 

 

But those are Thailand's neighbors...most of the Thailand land borders these three countries, with a amall connection to Malaysia.

[Guest beachlover]

They're still regional neighbours, which is what counts.

 

The Malay-Thai border is a pretty major one. Some elements of Southern Thailand seem to be more like Malaysia in some ways than they are Thai.

[Guest fountainhall]

Comparing Thailand to Singapore seems unfair - it is like comparing France to Monaco , , , overall I feel that Thailand has come on leaps and bounds in only a few decades, and I like to give due credit where credit is due

Comparing present day Thailand to SIngapore is, of course, not fair. Look back 50 years, though. Singapore was mostly a swamp. Even Lee Kwan Yew believed it could never make it on its own, hence the ill-fated merger with then-Malaya. Then compare the development of the two countries and see where they now stand economically. The gap is far wider than that between France and Monaco, in my view. What Thailand has lacked is the vision, drive, determination, energy and sheer guts to pinpoint its failings and grab its opportunities in order to drag the country forward economically.

 

You could also look at the other tiger economies of Hong Kong and Korea. What they have achieved in the last 50 years is nothing short of miraculous. Whilst Thailand has indeed come on by leaps and bounds - especially in the last quarter century (and credit is certainly due to those who made that happen), looking back is really rather meaningless. What the article pointed to was the future and how Thailand is to develop further. Given the desperate state of education in the country and cultural values which "amputate the mind and dismember the soul", he is not optimistic. Nor am I, unless some drastic changes are made.

[Guest badcdn]

And what does any of this chatter have to do with the topic?

[Guest fountainhall]

And what does any of this chatter have to do with the topic?

Seems like you haven't read the topic through - not surprising, I suppose, given the volume of posts we now have to wade through (but that's tackled on other threads)!!

 

The topic of this thread is the "Mess" of the new Airport Railway.

 

The first day of commercial run was nothing but a mess

Posts since then have included the reasons for not only the mess but the underlying social and economic factors which will ensure there will be similar mess-ups in future. It is all perfectly relevant if you just read the whole thread.

[Guest beachlover]

What Thailand has lacked is the vision, drive, determination, energy and sheer guts to pinpoint its failings and grab its opportunities in order to drag the country forward economically.

 

True... it also probably failed to address a lot of things, which have and continue to hold it back, like corruption.

 

If you look at Singapore's history, Lee Kwan Yew and his management team systematically developed and implemented solutions for each one of Singapore's threats and weaknesses.

[Guest fountainhall]

If you look at Singapore's history, Lee Kwan Yew and his management team systematically developed and implemented solutions for each one of Singapore's threats and weaknesses.

Equally, they examined closely their strengths and opportunities. The development of Changi Airport is one of the most obvious. No-one, apart from Lee and his team, believed that the construction of a mega airport would be anything other than a huge waste of money. Lee realised that with air traffic growing by leaps and bounds, flights on the kangaroo route had to stop somewhere. He was determined that SIngapore be that hub. And look at Changi now! Look at government-owned Singapore Air now!

[Guest YardenUK]

Not disagreeing with anything that fountainhall has said, but where are the millions of peasant farmers in Singapore? On top of that there was no former colonial power throwing lots of development cash at Thailand - most of Thailand's neighbours were all former colonies of western powers who as part of the independence deals allocated annual amounts of cash (guilt money some may argue).........I still maintain Thailand has done incredibly well and while it is easy to criticise, it is a tad unfair.

 

It isn't as if the countries we all come don't have serious problems at their core, including corruption (just done with more subtlety), a massive ever-growing gap between rich and poor, and often questionable transport infrastructure plans.

[Guest beachlover]

Yeah, totally right. Investing in Changi Airport is a given now... but back then, it would have been a huge expense/investment (relative to their means).

 

It took a phenomenal degree of vision and foresight to shape the country it is today... but look how much it's paid off. They're running circles around their neighbours.

[Guest beachlover]

where are the millions of peasant farmers in Singapore?

 

Singapore did have a very unskilled labour force back then. This is why investment in education was one of their key strategies... to attract investment from multinationals.

 

Thailand does make a lot of mistakes, but it gets there in the end... just with a bit more pain than is necessary.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

They're still regional neighbours, which is what counts.

 

The Malay-Thai border is a pretty major one. Some elements of Southern Thailand seem to be more like Malaysia in some ways than they are Thai.

Let me see...did you ever think that the some elements of NE Thailand seem to be more like Laos in some ways than they are Thai??? What a unique concept.

[Guest fountainhall]

Not disagreeing with anything that fountainhall has said, but where are the millions of peasant farmers in Singapore? On top of that there was no former colonial power throwing lots of development cash at Thailand ........I still maintain Thailand has done incredibly well and while it is easy to criticise, it is a tad unfair.

You are right. Each country should be judged on its own merits rather than in comparison to others with totally different problems and history. But I have to come back about Singapore's labour force at Independence. I don't think it is true that Britain threw money at Singapore. Britain by then just did not have the cash! (Or am I wrong?) At Independence, Singapore had a huge unemployment problem and a very severe housing shortage. A lot of the land was agricultural, but the new government invested heavily in education to develop first a semiskilled and then a highly skilled workforce. At the same time, it embarked on a huge housing development programme and provided major incentives for foreign investment.

 

Singapore, like Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan, had no choice. They had ever-growing populations, few natural resources and a very low overall standard of living. They have always had to look outwards to better themselves. Thailand, it seems to me, has not felt that to be so essential to its development. On the other hand, it had, I believe, a more stable society that was prepared, until more recently, to accept its lot. Thailand has developed by leaps and bounds since I first visited in 1980. But can it continue to do so with such a low priority given to education and at least an examination of the factors which have enabled the Asian tigers to develop at a much faster rate?

[Guest beachlover]

Singapore, like Hong Kong, Korea and Taiwan, had no choice. They had ever-growing populations, few natural resources and a very low overall standard of living. They have always had to look outwards to better themselves. Thailand, it seems to me, has not felt that to be so essential to its development. On the other hand, it had, I believe, a more stable society that was prepared, until more recently, to accept its lot. Thailand has developed by leaps and bounds since I first visited in 1980. But can it continue to do so with such a low priority given to education and at least an examination of the factors which have enabled the Asian tigers to develop at a much faster rate?

 

I think that's very insightful.

 

Perhaps, Thailand has always been comfortable enough where it is. Pain and discomfort are often what motivates people to do things. Countries like Singapore had plenty of this... the pain of facing a very bleak future unless they found a way to develop themselves.

[Guest beachlover]

Let me see...did you ever think that the some elements of NE Thailand seem to be more like Laos in some ways than they are Thai??? What a unique concept.

 

This doesn't make Malaysia any less significant a regional neighbour.

 

Thailand has done better than Indonesia and the Philippines too.

 

In fact, out of the countries in SEA, I think Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei are the only ones to be economically stronger than Thailand. That's no mean feat.

[Guest fountainhall]

Perhaps, Thailand has always been comfortable enough where it is. Pain and discomfort are often what motivates people to do things. Countries like Singapore had plenty of this... the pain of facing a very bleak future unless they found a way to develop themselves.

Oh dear! Oh dear! And you think the future for countless millions of Thai poor is anything less than bleak? KhorTose and Hedda - where are you when we need you?

[Guest beachlover]

Not as bleak as Singapore would have been if they hadn't taken effective action... At least Thaiand has land and resources. Singapore had neither.

 

Anyway, I said that referring to Thailand as a whole. Perhaps many Thais just don't care that much about the poor... or perhaps they have the attitude of, "they can work their way out of poverty if they want to... ".

 

I think many of the middle-class Thais believe the poor are primarily poor because they make poor decisions and/or are lazy. I think there's some validity in that.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Not as bleak as Singapore would have been if they hadn't taken effective action... At least Thaiand has land and resources. Singapore had neither.

 

Anyway, I said that referring to Thailand as a whole. Perhaps many Thais just don't care that much about the poor... or perhaps they have the attitude of, "they can work their way out of poverty if they want to... ".

 

I think many of the middle-class Thais believe the poor are primarily poor because they make poor decisions and/or are lazy. I think there's some validity in that.

 

What is the fixation with Singapore...this is a Thailand board. Singapore is a city that just happens to be a country...There is no comparison of Singapore to Thailand...it is apples and tomatoes.

[Guest YardenUK]

What is the fixation with Singapore...this is a Thailand board. Singapore is a city that just happens to be a country...There is no comparison of Singapore to Thailand...it is apples and tomatoes.

 

Thank you Sacramento, Sir - that's what I was trying to say, but you did it far more succintly than me! It struck me as a crazy and unfair comparison.

[Guest beachlover]

Other people are talking about comparing countries... so I reply. One of them happens to be SG.