The New Airport Link BKK-City: What a Mess!

[Guest travelerjim]

As reported by Thaivisa.com today:

 

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/393401-suvarnabhumi-airport-link-what-a-mess/

 

Oh, Poor Airport Link

 

BANGKOK: -- Finally, the Airport Rail Link is officially opened for commercial services on Monday (Aug 23), after seven years of construction. The high-speed trains, though, do not look as new as they should. In fact, they look as if they had been bought at a clearance sale. Even Chinese trains look far more dashing.

 

The 28-kilometer rail route costs more than 30 billion baht in investment and has been subject to a vast amount of criticisms and negative press. Much of the grilling has been directed towards the project contractor, Sino-Thai Engineering and Construction.

 

Despite its name, the Airport Rail Link isn't actually connected to any airport. According to the original plan, the route should have linked Don Muang Airport with Suvarnabhumi Airport, but ended up with the last stop only at Phaya Thai Station in Bangkok’s downtown area.

 

What’s worse, the station does not even connect with a BTS station which is just a short distance away.

 

The first day of commercial run was nothing but a mess. Commuters paid full fares, but could not check in their luggages because the Thai Airways counters were closed and no one knows when they will open.

 

Hundreds of current Airport Rail Link staff are not full-time employees of the State Railway of Thailand (SRT). The railway authority hired Sasin Institute of Chulalongkorn University to recruit people and oversee salary payments on its behalf.

 

It remains unknown which organization these employees are working for. Who will be held responsible when problems arise? How desperate it is to see how the SRT and Thai politicians wasted precious tax payers' money.

 

Anyone who has been to Makkasan Station must have been upset about its poor condition that does not reflect the enormous investment put in. I cannot explain exactly how it looks. You’ve got to see it with your own eyes. Compared with Hong Kong’s Airport Rail Link, the difference are like heaven and hell.

 

The road system around the Makkasan Station has not been expanded to accommodate more future traffic. Those who regularly pass through the area, especially during rush hours and on rainy days, would know well how terrible the traffic can be.

 

Whoever is thinking about boarding the Airport Link train at the Makasan Station to Suvarnabhumi Airport should give it a second thought, because they could miss their flights. If anything, using the motorway could be a better choice.

 

Moreover, travelers are not safe from hassles when they travel via the rail link to the international airport. They have to heave their luggage upstairs from the train station in order to check in at the airline counters on the forth floors.

 

The Ministry of Transport has anticipated an operating loss in the first three years. But I doubt whether the SRT could really break even after the 3-yr period. Or the Airport Rail Link is destined to be in the sea of red ink forever just like our clunky rail services.

 

-- Tan Network 2010-08-26

[Guest GaySacGuy]

With the traffic at a complete standstill during rush hours, even a bad train system should be better than the highway. I was able to use BART out of the San Francisco Airport, and found it really neat...the station is on the departure level of the airport.

[Guest fountainhall]

With the traffic at a complete standstill during rush hours, even a bad train system should be better than the highway. I was able to use BART out of the San Francisco Airport, and found it really neat...the station is on the departure level of the airport.

This was all SO expected, yet everyone seems taken by surprise! There really is absolutely no excuse for such incompetence when other new airports around the region have mostly got it so right. (I'll bet the taxi drivers are happy about it, though.)

 

As the article mentions, Hong Kong is the perfect example that should have been followed. The train departs from inside the airport terminal on the same level as arrivals (like the BART it is easy to push your baggage cart right to the train doors), and the two in-town terminals are extremely user friendly. The AoT might recall that the Hong Kong airport train opened many months before the airport itself even came into operation.

 

An excellent example of more basic in-town terminals without check-in counters are those on the Narita Express in Tokyo. Connecting at Tokyo and Shinjuku stations is easy once you know how to navigate your way around those huge complexes. Even though the platform in Narita is under the arrivals area, the high-tech baggage carts are designed to be used on the first set of escalators!

 

I just cannot see any way I will use the airport train.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I was going to be leaving from Narita after arriving by bullet train from Osaka. I had my plan all mapped out so I wouldn't get lost in the huge labyrinth. As I was wending my way I came to a corridor that I was supposed to take. There was a guard there directing people to go somewhere else. Damn! I was really in a pickle until a friendly Japanese man saw my consternation and explained to me how to go where I needed to go.

[Guest fountainhall]

I had my plan all mapped out so I wouldn't get lost in the huge labyrinth. As I was wending my way I came to a corridor that I was supposed to take. There was a guard there directing people to go somewhere else. Damn! I was really in a pickle until a friendly Japanese man saw my consternation and explained to me how to go where I needed to go.

It took me 3 or 4 trips to discover the various ways of descending into the stygian gloom of that monster station! Thereafter, it's a breeze! But for first timers, a general rule of thumb is to allow 5 extra minutes, watch the route being taken by most of those with large suitcases - and go with the flow For anyone who then misses the train - drinks are on me

[Guest]

As far as I know the Shinkansen still doesn't run to Narita. It's necessary to take a comfortable but not particularly fast Narita Express from Tokyo to Narita. Or have things changed in the last few months? At least it works.

 

KL is has some dubious public transport arrangements.

 

The monorail from city centre stops a good distance short of the main railway condition, so you need to walk across a piece of wasteland to get to the station.

 

Then the station is accessed via a narrow escalator.

 

The airport train goes to the main KL terminal, but there is no rail link to the low cost airline terminal (LCCT), so you need to almost use what resembles a "back entrance" out of the airport to find a bus to the LCCT.

 

Then the LCCT itself resembles a large corrugated iron bus shelter.

 

BKK airport is miles ahead of this.

[Guest fountainhall]

As far as I know the Shinkansen still doesn't run to Narita. It's necessary to take a comfortable but not particularly fast Narita Express from Tokyo to Narita. Or have things changed in the last few months? At least it works.

 

KL is has some dubious public transport arrangements. The monorail from city centre stops a good distance short of the main railway condition, so you need to walk across a piece of wasteland to get to the station. Then the station is accessed via a narrow escalator.

 

The airport train goes to the main KL terminal, but there is no rail link to the low cost airline terminal (LCCT), so you need to almost use what resembles a "back entrance" out of the airport to find a bus to the LCCT. Then the LCCT itself resembles a large corrugated iron bus shelter.

 

BKK airport is miles ahead of this.

You are correct about the shinkansen. The shinkansen run on dedicated track with dedicated sections of stations. To justify the cost, they'd need much more volume to build a special line to Narita. After all, the long Tokyo/Osaka trains run every 6 - 8 minutes and are generally full.

 

Personally, I don't quite agree with your comment about the Narita Express. It runs on existing track used by huge numbers of other trains daily. So it can not get up to the speeds of the shinkansen, Bangkok's Airport Rail or Shanghai's Maglev. It also has to slow down considerably to get past the Chiba connurbation. But Tokyo station to Narita in 53 minutes when the limousine bus can take double that in the rush hour, is pretty good in my book. And at around ¥3,000 compared to ¥24,000+ for a taxi, it is - relatively speaking - far better overall value than Bangkok.

 

Re KL. the lack of a link between the monorail and the airport train is a real drag, especially when it is pissing with rain. However, I doubt if many people take the monorail specifically to get to the airport train terminus. For a start, the monorail trains are too small and its route far too restrictive. With taxis being still quite cheap, I have seen most people taking taxis to the terminal to pick up the train. The lack of any decent service between the main KLIA (the main airport) and the LCCT is another drag. But then low cost travel is just that - "low cost". I see lots more people taking the many buses to the LCCT than the train.

 

If ever Bangkok builds an LCCT, what you will get is something similar to that at KL (and also now in Singapore) - a big barren shed with absolutely basic facilities - nothing more. Anyone presently thinking Suvarnabhumi's main passenger terminal is bad will find it heaven on earth compared to any new LCCT. After all, you get what you pay for!

 

I note you do not mention Hong Kong. It's airport train on dedicated track is not particularly fast either, although it does have to slow down for two intermediate stops. Certainly, at 23 minutes, it is slower overall than the Bangkok train. But the location of the terminals, ease of use, the facilities, food & beverage outlets, check-in procedures etc. are all so consumer friendly, it is no wonder it is regarded as the 'model' in the region.

[Guest]

In KL, I recall the airport train runs to "KL Sentral" station (unless the memory is playing tricks). Not terminating the monorail inside the station is just dumb.

 

As for BKK airport, well I think it's my favourite large terminal. I look forward to trying the rail link.

[Guest fountainhall]

As for BKK airport, well I think it's my favourite large terminal. I look forward to trying the rail link.

Oops! Sorry I have to disagree again. To be fair, Suvarnabhumi has been slowly improving, but it still has so many flaws to sort out.

 

I guess it takes a year or 2 for new airports to become fully up to scratch, but BKK still has years of work ahead if it is to match the sheer speed and efficiency of Hong Kong. Like BKK, HKG is basically grey metal and glass. When it opened, it was 'cold' and functional. Now it has become much more trendy with lots of different coffee shops, the introduction of a greater variety of shopping (especially at the lower end), more colour, etc.

 

I wonder if you ever used the main airport at KL (as opposed to the ghastly LCCT)? I like the design a lot.

[llz]

This topic translated from the Thai Rath is full of shit and obviously completely biased - for whatever reason.

I did not use the SARL until now as I am now in Europe for still seven weeks : however what I have read here and there about it, is mostly positive despite the usual teething troubles.

 

Despite its name, the Airport Rail Link isn't actually connected to any airport. According to the original plan, the route should have linked Don Muang Airport with Suvarnabhumi Airport, but ended up with the last stop only at Phaya Thai Station in Bangkok’s downtown area.

-- Tan Network 2010-08-26

 

I don't remember having read anything about Suwanaphum having closed ?

 

 

 

What’s worse, the station does not even connect with a BTS station which is just a short distance away.

-- Tan Network 2010-08-26

 

A bridge to Phayathai has just been completed. And a convenient passageway from Makkasan to MRT Ploenchit station is scheduled.

 

 

 

The first day of commercial run was nothing but a mess. Commuters paid full fares, but could not check in their luggages because the Thai Airways counters were closed and no one knows when they will open.

-- Tan Network 2010-08-26

 

Announced everywhere since a long time ... This will come, one day ...

 

 

 

Moreover, travelers are not safe from hassles when they travel via the rail link to the international airport. They have to heave their luggage upstairs from the train station in order to check in at the airline counters on the forth floors.

-- Tan Network 2010-08-26

 

Many passengers travel on the light side and will have no problmem with this. And the SARL will provide a nice link to the airport for those who work there or who have to greet a friend, and also to the eastern suburbs of Bangkok.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Liz brings up some interesting ideas and thoughts. I too feel the article is definitely one-sided in the negative sense. For someone who has had to get to the airport often, it may be a really great thing.

[Guest fountainhall]

For someone who has had to get to the airport often, it may be a really great thing.

Despite my own criticisms, you are certainly correct. For some business travellers outwith the rush hour and for single budget travellers, for example, I am sure it will be become heavily used. However, putting the opening teething problems to one side for a moment, the fact remains that once the price rises to Bt. 150 in January, it will cease to be competitive with taxis for the vast majority of travellers.

 

If you are a couple or a family, what is the point of paying Bt. 300 or more for the train, when you will still need to get a taxi from the terminal to your final destination? Unless you are travelling in the rush hour peaks when the expressways will be jammed, a door-to-door taxi from the airport will be more convenient, only a little more expensive and probably take no longer than your total journey time by the train/taxi route. If your trip coincides with the rush hour peaks, you will end up stuck in in-town traffic whether you like it or not! And that assumes that there will be plenty of taxis waiting at Makkasan so you don't have much of a wait. If experience at other airports in the region is anything to go by, in the middle of heavy monsoon rains the chances are you will have to wait quite a long time for one to appear.

 

As part of an overall long-term airport strategy, the original plan to extend that train link to Don Mueang makes so much sense. If passengers could be assured of a 35 or so minute ride on one train between the two airports, almost all the logical arguments for not making Don Mueang the LCC base disappear.

[Guest fountainhall]

There is an excellent editorial in today's The Nation about the recent discussions over the airport railway. I quote part of it.

 

There is an old saying in Thailand that warns people about "drowning in shallow water". The gist of it is that the strategy may be sound, but if the logistics are not there, the end result could prove to be disastrous.

 

Unfortunately, logistics has never been Thailand's strong point, and the recently launched high-speed train that is supposed to link central Bangkok to the main international airport at Suvarnabhumi in 15 minute is another example of how we just can't seem to get things right. In fact, we can look at just about every public transportation system here and make the same argument. But because the airport link is the latest in a long line of massive infrastructure projects, it makes a good peg to the argument that this country is amateurish when it comes to logistics and public planing.

 

For years, Thailand has touted itself as the springboard to other countries and regions in Southeast Asia. Foreign visitors and investors would come here, take trips elsewhere in the area, then return here before heading home. We love to think in strategic terms because it allows us to fantasise about the "big picture" and our central place in the region and the wider world.

 

But strategy and logistics are the language of professionals and those with a sense of responsibility and accountability. Like it or not, these small details are the very thing that will prevent us from "drowning in shallow water".

It then goes on to discuss the airport itself.

 

Transport is one thing, but then there are the numerous problems at the airport itself. The old complaints from the days of Don Mueang have never been dealt with. Today, the "ghost" taxi-drivers and touts are still permitted to roam the arrivals hall looking for victims they can rip off through inflated fares. And how many times are authorities going to relocate the legitimate metered taxis? Common sense tells us that the metered taxis should be waiting right outside the arrival hall so travellers don't have to drag their luggage down to the first floor. But no, this is Thailand, and we just have to make things inconvenient.

It then ends on a rather pessimistic note -

 

Perhaps Newsweek was right all along. Our comparative advantage appears to be golf and sex tourism

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/28/opinion/Airport-should-be-a-model-not-an-embarrassment-30136775.html

[Guest beachlover]

In KL, I recall the airport train runs to "KL Sentral" station (unless the memory is playing tricks). Not terminating the monorail inside the station is just dumb.

 

As for BKK airport, well I think it's my favourite large terminal. I look forward to trying the rail link.

 

Really? I always thought BKK Suvarnabhumi Airport was a hole. It's big and impressive, but generally very bare bones and cold on the inside.

 

The airside area and waiting area at the gates for departures are usually crap... few eateries and amenities. Arrivals is fairly hectic and confusing.

 

It definitely has none of the well-thought design and functionality world-class airports like Sydney, Changi, Hong Kong and KL have.

[Guest beachlover]

There is an excellent editorial in today's The Nation about the recent discussions over the airport railway. I quote part of it.

 

 

It then goes on to discuss the airport itself.

 

 

It then ends on a rather pessimistic note -

 

 

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/28/opinion/Airport-should-be-a-model-not-an-embarrassment-30136775.html

 

Those are good observations... Unfortunately, Thai people tend to shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to these sort of things. They just don't seem competent.

 

You would think, when billions of baht are to be expended building stuff like this, the team behind it would think things through an plan it out properly.

[PattayaMale]

There are many examples of good mass transit from air ports in many cities around the world. Thailand could have studied the successful ones and incorporated the successful designs into its new system.

 

I don't think anyone thinks that most of the mega projects in Thailand are without a lot of corruption and graft. What is unfortunate is that most accept this as normal for Thailand. Even the Thais.

 

In Pattaya, a simple road project went on for years. And after being opened less than a year it is falling apart. Most projects are like this, even simple ones.

 

Too bad. It does not have to be like this. Thais are as smart as everyone else. So why does this go on?

[Guest beachlover]

True... the wastage caused by these mistakes are enormous. Maybe this is a downside to the much liked (by Thai-loving farangs) mai pen rai attitude.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

There are many examples of good mass transit from air ports in many cities around the world. Thailand could have studied the successful ones and incorporated the successful designs into its new system.

 

I don't think anyone thinks that most of the mega projects in Thailand are without a lot of corruption and graft. What is unfortunate is that most accept this as normal for Thailand. Even the Thais.

 

In Pattaya, a simple road project went on for years. And after being opened less than a year it is falling apart. Most projects are like this, even simple ones.

 

Too bad. It does not have to be like this. Thais are as smart as everyone else. So why does this go on?

 

That's a good question. Could it be because the corruption goes on at all levels..down to the rice farmer being paid to vote for a certain candidate. There doesn't seem to be anyone over the age of six in this country that isn't or hasn't been involved in taking some kind of bribe!!

[Guest fountainhall]

You would think, when billions of baht are to be expended building stuff like this, the team behind it would think things through an plan it out properly.

I have no doubt corruption plays a major role. As soon as one politician or senior member of the military learns of a major infrastructure project, he'll start buying up the land. Others will jump on the bandwagon. When the government then tries to appropriate the land, the owners put up all sorts of negotiating obstacles to get the price way higher than it should be.

 

We should remember, too, that other countries often have similar sorts of problems. In the early 1960s when Japan realised that Tokyo's Haneda was too small, they planned a major new facility at Narita. This was to have 5 runways. The protests of local farmers and residents (probably with political help) resulted in delay after delay. When the airport opened in 1978 - 7 years late! - it had just one runway. Continuing protests over land compensation continued for years and years, thereby delaying the construction of a second runway and terminal until 2001/2, just in time for the World Cup. That runway had to be considerably shorter than planned. Only recently has it been extended so that it can finally handle 747s. Add to that the 13-year delay in getting the Narita Express train up and running - and you can see that Japan' s bureaucratic and corruption problems are as bad as Thailand's.

 

But The Nation's editorial points to more than just inefficient bureacracy and corruption. My personal view is that the lack of quality education is another massive root cause. I also feel it involves partly a blinkered view of specific projects resulting in a particularly narrow focus and a basic inability to see the bigger picture, partly a national culture which values obeying orders and a deep-rooted desire to avoid confrontation above innovation and pushing the envelope, and particularly a degree of national fear which dictates that "we don't need to learn from others."

 

The editorial ends by saying: "Thais are as smart as anyone else." I am sure this is largely true. But I will go way out on a limb now. Whilst I think Thais are indeed smart at being individuals, I do not see them as being as good as everyone else at working together for the common good of their work unit, their company, their industry or their country. And until that culture changes, problems will continue.

[Guest beachlover]

I wonder if the initial studies, strategy, infrastructure design and construction are done by Western firms or Thai firms. If it was all done by Thai firms from the start this would explain a lot. I can't imagine a competent Western consulting, engineering or construction firm screwing up this badly... or wanting to put their name on a project where external factors may play such a detrimental role.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Wow, you certainly have a low expectation of Thai firms, or an awfully high expectation that Western firms can do so much better...let's see, like the contractors to the government that are "Western" firms working in Iraq and Afghasistan...those kine of Western firms???

[Guest fountainhall]

Today The Bangkok Post has jumped on the education - or lack thereof - bandwagon. Here are parts of a truly excellent article from its Thai editor titled "Is Thailand getting more stupid?" This really makes one think what is happening to this country. (The highlights are mine).

 

Once upon a dream, Thailand's national agenda was to battle with Singapore for regional supremacy in terms of human and economic development.

 

Once upon a dream we talked of becoming one of the "Asian Tigers'', roaring with the likes of Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Korea and the aforementioned Singapore.

 

Today the reality is we meow like a little pussy cat, wet and shaking in the cold, fearing that other alley cats like Cambodia and Vietnam will eat us up.

 

About two million children aged between three and 17 nationwide, or about 11% of the country's school-age population, are not receiving even the basic education, according to the Quality Learning Foundation (QLF).

 

As well, the number of workers with an education background below primary level stands at 21.6 million people, or 60% of the country's labour-age population.

 

According to Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study, Thailand's scores have dipped over the past decade, and the country now ranks in the bottom third of the 36 countries that participated.

 

Since 2007, student performances in Thailand's O-Net national exams have fallen steadily in all five core subjects: Thai, maths, science, social studies and English.

 

If the question is, is Thailand getting more stupid, the answer is no. If the question is, is Thailand getting more stupid relative to other countries, the answer is a resounding yes - because while others are in a foot race to provide "the opportunities to pursue happiness'' for their citizens, we just keep crawling on our hands and knees . . .

 

 

Our society isn't crumbling, we aren't falling apart, but rest assured that the numbers do not lie - we are getting more and more stupid relative to others. If every one of us does not lend a hand, then rest assured of something else - all Thailand will ever achieve is mediocrity.

 

I have read articles and listened to politicians and bureaucrats talk about education reform. I have interviewed ministers and officials about creative economy.

 

And this I can tell you; to this day I still have no idea what they were talking about. The problem is: I don't think they do either . . .

 

 

Because the most blatant action I have seen the government take on the issue of education is trying to prevent university students from expressing political ideas and organising political activities that are contrary to the official stance.

 

Not to mention the usual censorship we all know so well. Censoring ideas and opinions is amputating the mind and dismembering the soul, consequently forcing the young (and the public in general) to become stupid.

 

I have read and heard the media expound lyrical poetry against government restrictions and censorship, while at the same time the media itself is most adamant in delivering "appropriate'' content by "appropriate'' people to the public in upholding "tradition''.

 

That is not only self-censorship, it is hypocrisy. It is amputating the mind and dismembering the soul, consequently forcing the young (and the public in general) to become stupid . . .

 

 

Every week I teach at a university and last week I asked the students, growing up, what is the question your parents and teachers hate the most? They answered with a resounding "why''. Adults hate to be asked "why''. I then asked what happened when you ask ``why''.

 

The answer was a couple of "whys'' was tolerable, but too many "whys'' and they are told to be quiet and are accused of being disruptive and disrespectful. At best, they are told to go and find out the answers themselves.

 

Not in the spirit of adventure and self-discovery, however. But because the adults are exasperated and clueless, hence they are told to go and find out for themselves without any guidance, without direction or a map. Not even a flashlight.

 

Does this not amputate the mind and dismember the soul, consequently forcing the young to become stupid?

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/193467/is-thailand-getting-more-stupid

[Guest beachlover]

That's an interesting article. No doubt Thailand has a long way to go to become as successful as many of its neighbours.

 

"Once upon a dream, Thailand's national agenda was to battle with Singapore for regional supremacy in terms of human and economic development."

 

... Shit, they sure lost that battle!

 

I don't know what it is. Thais have so many wonderful qualities I love. But logical, rational planning and follow-through just doesn't seem to be one of their strengths.

 

I know I'd rather spend time with Thais... But I'd rather employ Singaporeans.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

That's an interesting article. No doubt Thailand has a long way to go to become as successful as many of its neighbours.

 

"Once upon a dream, Thailand's national agenda was to battle with Singapore for regional supremacy in terms of human and economic development."

 

... Shit, they sure lost that battle!

 

I don't know what it is. Thais have so many wonderful qualities I love. But logical, rational planning and follow-through just doesn't seem to be one of their strengths.

 

I know I'd rather spend time with Thais... But I'd rather employ Singaporeans.

 

I think you need to take a closer look at some of Thailand's neighbors. As successful as say Cambodia, Burma and Laos...that successful????

[Guest fountainhall]

I think you need to take a closer look at some of Thailand's neighbors. As successful as say Cambodia, Burma and Laos...that successful???

To be fair on the author of the article, he talks about a possible future scenario -

 

Today the reality is we meow like a little pussy cat, wet and shaking in the cold, fearing that other alley cats like Cambodia and Vietnam will eat us up