RockyRoadTravel Posted July 19 Posted July 19 31 minutes ago, Bingo T Dog said: You're assuming that MAGA extremists would have a problem with that? Look at their track record of attacking representative democracy. Supreme Court welcomed a flood a dark money into elections with Citizens' United (against democracy). The Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act. De Santos refused to implement an Initiative passed by Florida voters to re-instate voting rights to people who had completed their jail time. The list goes on and on of attacks on democracy by the MAGA element in the USA. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members Suckrates Posted July 19 Members Posted July 19 6 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said: I know you want to believe Jesus saved Trump so he could have his way with America. I simply believe Trump survived, which is a good thing. The fact that I don't want the gross old lying felon to have his way with America is simply my opinion. Like Trump, you do not understand the difference, clearly. Steven, please tell me WHY its a good thing Trump survived the shooting ? Is it because if he had not, his replacement would have been a younger, smarter version of him ? That would be the only reason that would make ANY sense to me, or that I could accept. . xpaulo 1 Quote
RockyRoadTravel Posted July 19 Posted July 19 4 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said: I know you hate facts, @EmmetK. So I assume you have not tried to download the dataset, right? Pew wants me to register to actually look at the data, and that's not something I generally register with websites to do. I disagree with you. He doesn't hate facts, he hates all the facts. He loves cherry picking bit of pieces of random numbers that support his preconceived bias. Thankfully he's probably not involved in any job that requires objectivity. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members Suckrates Posted July 19 Members Posted July 19 3 minutes ago, RockyRoadTravel said: I disagree with you. He doesn't hate facts, he hates all the facts. He loves cherry picking bit of pieces of random numbers that support his preconceived bias. Thankfully he's probably not involved in any job that requires objectivity. Thats always CULT behavior. If information doesnt fit your narrative, manipulate it so that it DOES...... The story you tell ALWAYS has to favor the Cult leader. Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted July 19 Author Members Posted July 19 5 minutes ago, Suckrates said: Steven, please tell me WHY its a good thing Trump survived the shooting ? Is it because if he had not, his replacement would have been a younger, smarter version of him ? That would be the only reason that would make ANY sense to me, or that I could accept. . That's a no brainer. Darkly comic pun intended. Much better to beat the felon and liar at the ballot box, not with an assassin's bullet. Yes, I've read the books about the dark history of the CIA. Here's a fun thing. My crazy Mom was once at the house of Isabel Allende for dinner, who knows a bit about the CIA and assassinations. My Mom had no idea about the author, or her assassinated uncle. Regardless, America 2024 is not Putin's America. We don't kill our political opponents. Quote
Members Suckrates Posted July 19 Members Posted July 19 2 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said: That's a no brainer. Darkly comic pun intended. Much better to beat the felon and liar at the ballot box, not with an assassin's bullet. Yes, I've read the books about the dark history of the CIA. Here's a fun thing. My crazy Mom was once at the house of Isabel Allende for dinner, who knows a bit about the CIA and assassinations. My Mom had no idea about the author, or her assassinated uncle. Regardless, America 2024 is not Putin's America. We don't kill our political opponents. I respectively DISSENT ! stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members Suckrates Posted July 19 Members Posted July 19 Even if Trump does LOSE the 2024 race, we wont be rid of him. Then will start another 4 years of Big LIE 2024, protest, accusations, conspiracies, lawsuits and HIM dominating the news... I just want him GONE ! Can we at least win the House and Senate for some pushback against him ? Quote
Moses Posted July 19 Posted July 19 1 hour ago, EmmetK said: @Moses You are correct! For your information: I think that Trump isn't better than Biden is. Trump is also disaster for US - neonazi orange clown. Both are disasters. Just different disasters. All I'm saying here: Dems are losing to Reps now. unicorn 1 Quote
EmmetK Posted July 19 Posted July 19 2 hours ago, Suckrates said: A Harris/Trump matchup could be quite interesting.... Cackles can run on her record as Dementia Joe's border czar. Visited the border twice in 3.5 years 11 million + unvetted illegals walked across the border. They were given free housing, free medical, free cell phones, free debit cards, free... well, you get the picture Laken Riley: Nursing student. Jogging on the U. of Ga. campus. Abducted, raped, and killed by a Biden illegal from Venezuela. Christopher Dadd: Washington State trooper. 27 years old. On duty at a DUI checkpoint. Killed by a Biden illegal from Mexico. Left a wife and daughter behind. Aiden Clark: 11 years old. Killed by a Biden illegal from Haiti (crossed thru the southern border). Travis Wolfe: 12-years old. Killed by a drunk driver from Venezuela. A Biden illegal from Venezuela. Jocelyn Nungaray: 12-year old Houston girl. Beaten and killed by two Biden illegals from Venezuela. Rachel Morin: Mother of five from Maryland. Murdered by a Biden illegal from El Salvador. Dem campaign ad: Vote Democrat. Cackles Kamala will do for America what she has done for the southern border. The GOP/Trump playbook is ready to flood the airwaves with ads depicting the lives of these Americans snuffed out by illegal aliens who entered the country illegally while Cackles was in charge of the border. Can't wait.... TRUMP/VANCE 2024 MAGA stevenkesslar 1 Quote
RockyRoadTravel Posted July 19 Posted July 19 43 minutes ago, EmmetK said: Cackles can run on her record as Dementia Joe's border czar. Visited the border twice in 3.5 years 11 million + unvetted illegals walked across the border. They were given free housing, free medical, free cell phones, free debit cards, free... well, you get the picture Laken Riley: Nursing student. Jogging on the U. of Ga. campus. Abducted, raped, and killed by a Biden illegal from Venezuela. Christopher Dadd: Washington State trooper. 27 years old. On duty at a DUI checkpoint. Killed by a Biden illegal from Mexico. Left a wife and daughter behind. Aiden Clark: 11 years old. Killed by a Biden illegal from Haiti (crossed thru the southern border). Travis Wolfe: 12-years old. Killed by a drunk driver from Venezuela. A Biden illegal from Venezuela. Jocelyn Nungaray: 12-year old Houston girl. Beaten and killed by two Biden illegals from Venezuela. Rachel Morin: Mother of five from Maryland. Murdered by a Biden illegal from El Salvador. Dem campaign ad: Vote Democrat. Cackles Kamala will do for America what she has done for the southern border. The GOP/Trump playbook is ready to flood the airwaves with ads depicting the lives of these Americans snuffed out by illegal aliens who entered the country illegally while Cackles was in charge of the border. Can't wait.... TRUMP/VANCE 2024 MAGA You're presenting evidence supporting gun controls - well done. I never thought you'd see a light from that dark echo chamber you live in. stevenkesslar and Bingo T Dog 1 1 Quote
Members Suckrates Posted July 20 Members Posted July 20 5 hours ago, EmmetK said: Cackles can run on her record as Dementia Joe's border czar. Visited the border twice in 3.5 years 11 million + unvetted illegals walked across the border. They were given free housing, free medical, free cell phones, free debit cards, free... well, you get the picture Laken Riley: Nursing student. Jogging on the U. of Ga. campus. Abducted, raped, and killed by a Biden illegal from Venezuela. Christopher Dadd: Washington State trooper. 27 years old. On duty at a DUI checkpoint. Killed by a Biden illegal from Mexico. Left a wife and daughter behind. Aiden Clark: 11 years old. Killed by a Biden illegal from Haiti (crossed thru the southern border). Travis Wolfe: 12-years old. Killed by a drunk driver from Venezuela. A Biden illegal from Venezuela. Jocelyn Nungaray: 12-year old Houston girl. Beaten and killed by two Biden illegals from Venezuela. Rachel Morin: Mother of five from Maryland. Murdered by a Biden illegal from El Salvador. Dem campaign ad: Vote Democrat. Cackles Kamala will do for America what she has done for the southern border. The GOP/Trump playbook is ready to flood the airwaves with ads depicting the lives of these Americans snuffed out by illegal aliens who entered the country illegally while Cackles was in charge of the border. Can't wait.... TRUMP/VANCE 2024 MAGA Its quite interesting how you cherry picked this particular statement from my post, and ignored the rest, the part about Trump being a Felon. It shows you are incapable and unwilling to accept the TRUTH about your boy. Only when you ACCEPT the truth will you be able to break the cancerous fever you have. Cackles is a better choice than Trump ANY DAY of the fucking week.....America needs a laugh more than it needs a LIE. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
RockyRoadTravel Posted July 20 Posted July 20 14 hours ago, Suckrates said: Cackles is a better choice than Trump ANY DAY of the fucking week.....America needs a laugh more than it needs a LIE. 50% of Americans would vote for a bag of rice over Trump - just based on a careful weighing of the issues of truth telling, competence and morality. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted July 20 Author Members Posted July 20 20 hours ago, EmmetK said: Laken Riley: Nursing student. Jogging on the U. of Ga. campus. Abducted, raped, and killed by a Biden illegal from Venezuela. I hope they bring this up. First, how many women has Trump raped? Why don't Republicans hold this gross old man with gross grabby hands responsible for raping women? He is a felon! There is no question that Trump is a rapist. Who the fuck is a raping lying old rapist to talk about rape? Let's repeat that, so it is clear: Donald Trump is a raping lying felon. That is a fact! Donald Trump presided over a massive 30 % murder spike in America. Donald Trump brought guns and death and murder to America. Donald Trump is who you want if you want more murder. That is a fact. FBI: 2020 homicides up nearly 30%, largest 1-year jump ever Murder. Murder. Murder. Death. Death. Death. Guns. Guns. Guns. That is the factual legacy of Donald Trump, failed President who lost. Republicans won't even do anything about the specific types of assault weapons that almost killed Trump. Despite the fact that an overwhelming bipartisan majority of Americans wants an assault weapons ban. The Republicans are weak and useless when it comes to doing things that STOP MURDER. Including of their own President! What weak, useless, hypocritical assholes. They run a rapist for President, a felon, a loser, and then want to talk about how they win will with a rapist and criminal who only lies when his lips are moving. You don't give a shit about one of those individuals murdered. You are using their names to support the candidacy of a lying, raping felon. Homicides See Historic Decline In 2023 Early 2024 Data Show Promising Signs of Another Historic Decline in Gun Violence U.S. gun homicides are declining dramatically, down 13.1 percent since 2023 and 16.4 percent since 2021. If you gave a shit about murder, you would start by admitting that Biden and Harris have done a great job reversing the spike in murder and violent crime that Trump was absolutely weak and ineffective and useless in doing anything about. You'd want to have a serious discussion about why Trump's policies (flood America with guns) failed and why Biden and Harris have had way more successful policies. But you don't give a shit about actual murder and rape. Nor do you care about immigration policy. Like Trump, you would rather see bipartisan efforts fail so Trump can lie and you can elect your raping felon. Your idea of "unity" is to put a lying raping felon who lost in 2018, 2020, 2022, and 2023 on stage for 90 minutes so he can lie, and lie, and lie. The only thing we can agree about is that the Joe Biden of 2020 and 2022 - when the red wave disappeared - is AWOL, and sick. So the Democrats have a temporary and tragic problem with one guy, who happens to be POTUS. It is being fixed. Other than that, you ain't got shit. Well, you do have some things. Lies. Lies. Lies. Murder. Murder. Murder. Guns. Guns. Guns. Rape. Rape. Rape. And a lying rapist felon who loses every time. I can't wait for Kamala to get on a stage with him and call out his lies, his rape, and his horrific track record on murder and violent crime and rape! And please, make sure Trump makes a point to demean and degrade the accomplishments of a Black woman who was very effective at throwing rapists like Trump, and murderers, into prison! Get used to her smile, and her hope. Quote
RockyRoadTravel Posted July 20 Posted July 20 3 minutes ago, stevenkesslar said: I hope they bring this up. First, how many women has Trump raped? Why don't Republicans hold this gross old man with gross grabby hands responsible for raping women? He is a felon! There is no question that Trump is a rapist. Who the fuck is a raping lying old rapist to talk about rape? Let's repeat that, so it is clear: Donald Trump is a raping lying felon. That is a fact! Donald Trump presided over a massive 30 % murder spike in America. Donald Trump brought guns and death and murder to America. Donald Trump is who you want if you want more murder. That is a fact. FBI: 2020 homicides up nearly 30%, largest 1-year jump ever Murder. Murder. Murder. Death. Death. Death. Guns. Guns. Guns. That is the factual legacy of Donald Trump, failed President who lost. Republicans won't even do anything about the specific types of assault weapons that almost killed Trump. Despite the fact that an overwhelming bipartisan majority of Americans wants an assault weapons ban. The Republicans are weak and useless when it comes to doing things that STOP MURDER. Including of their own President! What weak, useless, hypocritical assholes. They run a rapist for President, a felon, a loser, and then want to talk about how they win will with a rapist and criminal who onlty lies when his lips are moving. You don't give a shit out about one of those individuals murdered. You are using their names to support the candidacy of a lying, raping felon. Homicides See Historic Decline In 2023 Early 2024 Data Show Promising Signs of Another Historic Decline in Gun Violence U.S. gun homicides are declining dramatically, down 13.1 percent since 2023 and 16.4 percent since 2021. If you gave a shit about murder, you would start by admitting that Biden and Harris have done a great job reversing the spike in murder and violent crime that Trump was absolutely weak and ineffective and useless in doing anything about. But you don't give a shit about actual murder and rape. Nor do you care about immigration policy. Like Trump, you would rather see bipartisan efforts fail so Trump can lie and you can elect your raping felon. Your idea of "unity" is to put a lying raping felon who lost in 2018, 2020, 2022, and 2023 on stage for 90 minutes so he can lie, and lie, and lie. The only thing we can agree about is that the Joe Biden of 2020 and 2022 - when the red wave disappeared - is AWOL, and sick. So the Democrats have a temporary and tragic problem with one guy, who happens to be POTUS. It is being fixed. Other than that, you ain't got shit. Well, you do have some things. Lies. Lies. Lies. Murder. Murder. Murder. Guns. Guns. Guns. Rape. Rape. Rape. And a lying rapist felon who loses every time. I can't wait for Kamala to get on a stage with him and call out his lies, his rape, and horrific track record on murder and violent crime and rape! And please, make sure Trump makes a point to demean and degrade the accomplishments of a Black woman who was very effective at throwing rapists like Trump, and murderers, into prison! Get used to her smile, and her hope. That was a very measured statement. How do you really feel? stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members unicorn Posted July 20 Members Posted July 20 On 7/19/2024 at 12:00 PM, stevenkesslar said: ...First, tens of millions did vote for Kamala Harris as Vice President. They did not vote for Mike Johnson, or Nancy Pelosi, or Porky Pig. They voted for Kamala Harris. They voted for her in the 2020 election. They voted for her in the 2024 primary... ...Second reality check I think you missed, which is also a major talking point of anyone actually running national elections. There would be massive legal and financial problems for any person not named Joe Biden running for POTUS, unless that person is named Kamala Harris. That is mostly because of money and infrastructure that belongs to the Biden/Harris campaign... ...As far as your ability to diagnose dementia, I'm honestly a bit skeptical. That has been addressed before by someone else on the board with medical credentials, which i don't have. But I agree with your non-professional point... Stop the BS about people voting for Harris. VP's are not on any primary ballot, so it's factually incorrect, and you know it, that "they voted for her in the 2024 primary." While it is technically true that she was on the ballot in the general election in 2020, you, and everyone else, knows damn well that people vote for the candidate that they want for POTUS, and not separately for the Veep. I don't know enough about the technicalities about campaign finances (nor, I strongly suspect, do you), to know of the intricacies of campaign finance laws to know whether, if Biden steps down voluntarily, the money somehow vanishes, or gets returned to the donors. I doubt that's the case. I suspect the problem comes in if Biden refuses to step aside, as almost everyone (except you) seems to be encouraging him to do. What is clear to almost everyone (except you) is that if Biden stays in the race, the results will almost certainly be catastrophic for the Democratic Party and the US in general. I thought you knew I was a medical professional, and have correctly diagnosed dementia multiple times in my career. While it is helpful to be able to administer cognitive tests (which Biden has said he refuses to take), and also important to know that other medical conditions, such as syphilis, B12 deficiency, and hypothyroidism have been ruled out, the diagnosis is made primarily on the basis of behavioral observations, both by medical personnel and by those who know the person over time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alzheimer's_disease#Diagnosis "...AD is usually clinically diagnosed based on the person's medical history, history from relatives, and behavioral observations...". (Note: while AD is the most common form of dementia, Biden may have Parkinsonian Dementia, or some other form entirely) When my mother developed dementia, the long-term care insurance companies sent specially-trained RN's to confirm her primary care physician's and neurologist's diagnoses. When they went to her house, her long-term house-keeper was there, and the RN asked my mother what the housekeeper's name was. My mother couldn't recall, which essentially cinched the diagnosis (especially since my mother had a Ph.D.), although she also failed the MOCA test. I'm not sure if my mother's physicians actually also administered MOCA tests. The verbal history of her behavior (calling the police to report her car stolen because she couldn't remember where she parked it, leaving the gas on in the house, and so on) was enough (in addition, of course, to ruling out other forms of dementia). As is common for those with dementia, my mother thought her loved ones, physicians, and so on, were all in a conspiracy to falsely diagnose her. This is similar to Biden, who thinks that his closest friends, including Pelosi and Obama (who chose him as his running mate), are in a similar conspiracy: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/19/us/politics/biden-drop-out-2024-election.html?te=1&nl=the-morning&emc=edit_nn_20240720 "...Mr. Biden has been around politics long enough to assume that the leaks appearing in the media in recent days are being coordinated to raise the pressure on him to step aside, according to people close to him. He considers Representative Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker, the main instigator, but is irritated at Mr. Obama as well, seeing him as a puppet master behind the scenes. The friction between the sitting president and leaders of his own party so close to an election is unlike anything seen in Washington in generations — especially because the Democrats now working to ease him out were some of the allies most critical to his success over the last dozen years. It was Mr. Obama who elevated Mr. Biden from a presidential also-ran to the vice presidency, setting him up to win the White House in 2020, and it was Ms. Pelosi and Senator Chuck Schumer, the Senate Democratic leader, who pushed through his landmark legislative achievements...". The only two people I know who don't think Biden should step aside are Biden himself and you. Things that make you go hmmm. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
EmmetK Posted July 20 Posted July 20 2 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: I hope they bring this up. First, how many women has Trump raped? Why don't Republicans hold this gross old man with gross grabby hands responsible for raping women? He is a felon! There is no question that Trump is a rapist. Who the fuck is a raping lying old rapist to talk about rape? Let's repeat that, so it is clear: Donald Trump is a raping lying felon. That is a fact! . Maybe because Republicans and Most Americans don't believe the bs that the fake news media is feeding them. Americans fondly remember the halcyon days of the Trump administration. Secure borders, peace in the world, etc. Americans don't want a feeble, old Mr. Magoo impersonator (who couldn't recall the name of his own Defense Secretary) in the White House. Period! And you can bloviate with all of your soporific hyperbole you want (Nobody reads it anyway. That I can assure you), but facts are facts. if you don't believe me: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden TRUMP/VANCE 2024 MAGA stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Bingo T Dog Posted July 20 Posted July 20 13 minutes ago, EmmetK said: Maybe because Republicans and Most Americans don't believe the bs that the fake news media is feeding them. Americans fondly remember the halcyon days of the Trump administration. Secure borders, peace in the world, etc. Americans don't want a feeble, old Mr. Magoo impersonator (who couldn't recall the name of his own Defense Secretary) in the White House. Period! And you can bloviate with all of your soporific hyperbole you want (Nobody reads it anyway. That I can assure you), but facts are facts. if you don't believe me: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-biden TRUMP/VANCE 2024 MAGA THE GREAT DAYS OF HIDING COVID FROM THE AMERICAN CITIZENS AND THEN TELLING US TO USE DISINFECTANT AND SUNLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! COVID WILL BE GONE BY EASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted July 20 Author Members Posted July 20 1 hour ago, unicorn said: I don't know enough about the technicalities about campaign finances That's correct. Here's the reality check that matters, if you want to base your argument on reality. Quote Biden's campaign reported to the Federal Election Commission last month that it had $91 million in the bank at the end of May, a significant sum though less than the $116 million the Trump campaign told the FEC it had in the bank. Both campaigns are due on Saturday to disclose updated financial figures through June. COULD A DIFFERENT DEMOCRAT TAKE CONTROL OF THAT MONEY? Experts on campaign finance law disagree on how readily the money could change hands. Saurav Ghosh, a lawyer at the Campaign Legal Center, a non-partisan watchdog group, said there are two scenarios in which control of Biden's money could be seamlessly transferred to a new candidate: If that candidate were Vice President Kamala Harris, or if Harris became the running mate of a new candidate. As Biden's current running mate, Harris' name appears alongside Biden's on the campaign's registration documents. There are many other campaign issues that are vital. Since what this is about is not Biden's incapacity to be POTUS tomorrow. It is about Biden's inability to win based on voters' concern about his incapacity to lead an effective campaign and serve for four more years. That concern is shared by 2 in 3 Democrats, including me. And I assume you. Jen O'Malley Dillon was on Morning Joe Friday talking about the thousands of door knockers who went out and did voter ID and persuasion the past weekend. You need a campaign team, a massive GOTV operation, ads, money, everything. So the strategy of the Biden campaign is clear: "Stop worrying, start working." They are arguing that any candidate other than Biden at the top of the ticket just slows the machine down. Which is true. The machine is now sputtering. But their message is clearly failing. I think the right analogy is that most Americans have decided that the battery in the machine simply needs to be replaced. Again, 2 in 3 Democrats have. And if we are talking about campaign law, campaign management, campaign infrastructure, or campaign message, the best replacement battery is Kamala Harris. At least, that is what almost everyone good at campaign mechanics is saying. And you are saying you just don't know enough. So I would suggest you Google it and listen to what they are all saying. I think it is fascinating. 1 hour ago, unicorn said: What is clear to almost everyone (except you) is that if Biden stays in the race, the results will almost certainly be catastrophic for the Democratic Party and the US in general. You should read what I am actually posting, and have been for quite a while. I agree with Allan Lichtman. Ideally, Biden should step aside as nominee, and resign as POTUS. Not based on a dementia diagnosis, but based on his party's political diagnosis. But he won't resign, it sounds like. I think that's just reality, at least as of today. But you may disagree. I think Team Pelosi is forcing him to step aside as nominee. It is ugly to watch. But they will apply just as much pressure as they need to to force him to step aside as the Democratic nominee, reluctantly. Again, it is ugly and painful. But I think we both agree what she is doing is wise, correct? 1 hour ago, unicorn said: Stop the BS about people voting for Harris. We obviously disagree about Kamala Harris. I'm a huge fan of Michelle Obama. If I smoked a lot of pot, it could be fun to get high and imagine what another Obama campaign and Presidency could look like. Or I could just watch porn and jack off. Either way, it has nothing to do with reality. You will not agree with this. But I think the political reality is that from 2020 on there has been a political marriage between Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and the leadership and base of the Democratic Party. I don't think they can remove both Joe and Kamala, for political reasons. And I think Team Pelosi, which is the center of organization of what is happening, knows this. Part of the reason why is that everyone who voted for Joe in Fall 2020 knew they were voting for Kamala. That's 81 million people. Part of the reason why is that everyone who voted for Joe in the 2024 primary (which you and I both agree was lame) knew they were voting for Kamala. Part of the reason is Nancy's #2, Jim Clyburn, who helped birth the Biden/Harris ticket in 2020, has made it absolutely clear he will go nuts if they try to move Kamala out of the way. I could go on with many other reasons, which I think you don't know about or perhaps don't care about. Anyway, my own political judgment is that the only alternative to Biden in the real world is Kamala Harris. If you disagree, great. Who do you think would be better, and what is their path to winning the nomination? I'm not saying that in some alternative America Kamala Harris would be my first choice. My own spoiled grapes argument is I wanted Warren in 2020. Had she been the nominee, I think (Lichtman would agree) she would have won. Her health is fine. And we would not be having this problem. But if I have to blame it on anyone right now, I blame it 100 % on Joe Biden. It's a tragedy. But he doesn't know when it's time to step out of the way. Since you like to talk about things you say you don't know much about, I'll share another hard story about political leadership and resigning. I recall a meeting very early in my own career with Senator Proxmire (D, WI) and my boss Gale Cincotta, mother of the anti-redlining movement. Prox was the populist Chair of the US Senate Banking Committee, and absolutely critical to everything we did: the passage of the Community Reinvestment Act, the passage of the Home Mortgage Disclosure Act, a $1 billion Community Home Buyers Program with Fannie Mae and GE Capital that was my pet project at the time. That helped lay the groundwork for Bill Clinton's very effective homeownership push in the 1990's, which did a great job building wealth among working class White, Black, and Hispanic homeowners. Prox was like God to us. So he tells us in a private meeting in his office he is going to soon announce his resignation. He talked about how he saw colleagues of his being wheeled into the Senate chamber, who had no clue what they were voting for. DiFi is of course a recent example. I suspect every member of Congress has seen this, and fears it. So Gale was shocked, and it was in her nature to say he really shouldn't resign. And Gale was right that we never ever ever had a hero like that again. This is probably unrealistic on my part. But I believe if someone who took no money from the bank lobby and who had the integrity of Prox had been around 15 years later, he could have actually stooped the subprime predators who the Republicans unleashed from 2003 to 2008. Maybe a horrible American tragedy could have been stopped. Anyway, that's part of my life story. I respect what Nancy Pelosi is doing. Biden should have been like Prox. Now he is being forced out, painfully. He certainly had every opportunity to do what Bill Proxmore and most political leaders do. Which is know when it is time to leave. Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted July 20 Author Members Posted July 20 39 minutes ago, EmmetK said: Maybe because Republicans and Most Americans don't believe the bs that the fake news media is feeding them. Americans fondly remember the halcyon days of the Trump administration. Secure borders, peace in the world, etc. Typical. You can't respond with facts. So you argue facts are fake. You can't and won't talk about how Trump killed factory jobs with his inept policies and useless tax cuts to billionaires, that did not create factory jobs but did grow a huge deficit Shame on the MAGA bullshit and MAGA lies. You want to talk about rape and murder. But you can't talk about how Trump led a 30 % murder spike in one year, or how Biden reduced murder and violent crime. You can't admit that Harris threw lying rapist felons like Trump in jail. So you lie. You make up lies and fantasies which most Independents and most Americans don't buy. Good luck with that. Trump has peaked. It is all downhill from here. His lies, his rape, his contempt for free and fair elections, his criminal behavior, and his lack of integrity will simply not work for America. It doesn't surprise me that you don't see the current polls - Trump is +3 - as a problem for Trump, not Biden. You see only what you want to see, with MAGA-colored glasses. What I take heart in is that we are living through a month that nobody would believe if it were in some novel. One party's leader is almost killed, and he is treated like Jesus. Even though most Americans and Independents say in polls that he is a felon who should step aside. Another party's leader is being humiliated on a daily basis, by his own close friends and party leaders, and will continue to be until he is forced to resign. Susie Wiles could not have hoped for more. Other than she's hope this was happening in October, not July. Which is exactly the problem you can't see. If Trump can only get to +3 when everything is going his way in a way that seems almost unimaginable, what happens when the Democrats unify around somehow who is not Joe Biden? Every other Democrat in Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, and Nevada is kicking their Republican opponent's ass. I have it on good word that Susie Wiles is worried about that. Why aren't you? Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted July 20 Author Members Posted July 20 Again, is the problem her smile? Or you don't like effective Black women who throw lying rapist felons like Trump in ail? Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted July 20 Author Members Posted July 20 1 hour ago, unicorn said: When my mother developed dementia, the long-term care insurance companies sent specially-trained RN's to confirm her primary care physician's and neurologist's diagnoses. When they went to her house, her long-term house-keeper was there, and the RN asked my mother what the housekeeper's name was. My mother couldn't recall, which essentially cinched the diagnosis (especially since my mother had a Ph.D.), although she also failed the MOCA test. I'm not sure if my mother's physicians actually also administered MOCA tests. The verbal history of her behavior (calling the police to report her car stolen because she couldn't remember where she parked it, leaving the gas on in the house, and so on) was enough (in addition, of course, to ruling out other forms of dementia). My mother had long term care insurance, and vascular dementia. So I can only comment on that. First, if I am comparing Joe Biden to my mother at that point, there is no comparison. Biden is the sanest man in the world. There are things that happened around that time I now associate with dementia, but did not at the time. The last time I flew her out to visit me in California for a week, my mother shit her pants in a shopping mall. She told me one night she wanted canned spaghetti for dinner, so I stopped and bought a can. Then I cooked the chicken I had prepared for both of us and ate alone. The next day she flew into a rage about how I made her eat food out of a can. You get the picture. I do know you're a doctor, and I am not one. I regret in retrospect that I did not have a clearer picture of what was happening. Regardless, my non-demented Dad was very old (90's) and slowing down, and my brother who was my Mom and Dad's health POA was very busy. So I asked him to let me handle my Mom's dementia diagnosis for purposes of activating her long term care, which I did. I had to get medical professionals, including her own doctor, involved. I got two different mental health diagnoses. I am good at being a bureaucrat. And I did what I needed to do to get my parents' long term care based on a dementia diagnosis activated. Biden is in much better shape than either my 90ish Mom, who was demented, or my 90ish Dad, who was still mentally sharp as a tack. Even though my Dad exhibited many of the characteristics of old age Biden does. I'd be curious to see poll results of whether people think Biden should resign immediately. As opposed to step aside as nominee. My guess is the answer would be most Democrats and probably most Independents would not see any need for Biden to resign. There is no medical diagnosis. I think the main issue, at least among most people I talk to, is that they don't think he can be POTUS in 2028 - not 2024. There is one useful historical precedent here. Quote The staff “told stories about how inattentive and inept the president was,” Cannon recalled to journalists Jane Mayer and Doyle McManus in Landslide: The Unmaking of the President, 1984-1988. “He was lazy; he wasn't interested in the job. They said he wouldn't read the papers they gave him—even short position papers and documents. They said he wouldn't come over to work—all he wanted to do was to watch movies and television at the residence.” Somehow we survived Reagan. And there is no evidence Biden won't read short position papers or only wants to watch movies at his residence. lookin 1 Quote
RockyRoadTravel Posted July 20 Posted July 20 2 hours ago, EmmetK said: Americans fondly remember the halcyon days of the Trump administration. When Trump sucked the last fumes out of the Obama recovery, before leaving us fighting over toilet paper. Man, Trump was incompetent. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
RockyRoadTravel Posted July 20 Posted July 20 2 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: Somehow we survived Reagan. Barely. His voodoo economics is still the basis of attack on middle and working-class Americans. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members unicorn Posted July 21 Members Posted July 21 3 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: ... Here's the reality check that matters, if you want to base your argument on reality... There are many other campaign issues that are vital. Since what this is about is not Biden's incapacity to be POTUS tomorrow... Part of the reason why is that everyone who voted for Joe in Fall 2020 knew they were voting for Kamala... Since you like to talk about things you say you don't know much about... Well, you didn't admit you were factually wrong about voting for her in the 2020 primaries. That's you, but at least now you're admitting she was only on the ballot in November. Research strongly suggests VP picks only have an effect in the VP's home state (which is why Trump--or his advisors--wisely picked the Ohio Senator, from a swing state). That also makes intuitive sense. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/7/18/vance-or-harris-does-a-vp-pick-help-win-the-us-election#:~:text=In the last election%2C Biden,on Biden's popularity among voters. "Even if presidential candidates perform marginally better in their running mate’s home state, as some studies suggest, their overall national popularity seems largely unaffected. In the last election, Biden announced Harris as his VP on August 11, 2020. Based on the voting analysis platform FiveThirtyEight’s average of 2020 presidential election polls, Harris did not have a significant impact on Biden’s popularity among voters....". You sure have a wild imagination, for someone who accuses others of not paying attention to facts. And it's silly (to put it politely--rather than say stupid) to say that the election might be about Biden's ability to carry out his duties tomorrow. Obviously whoever is elected in November would have to carry out those duties until January 2029. Neither candidate fits that bill, as both are going downhill fast. It's questionable whether Biden will be able to carry on his duties until January, but I think that few people believe he'll have that capacity for 4.5 more years. The saving grace for Biden is that at least he's not a complete whacko like Trump--who God knows how he will react when he goes all paranoid, the way Biden is now, believing his best friends are plotting against him. As I've said before, my preferred candidate would be Michelle Obama, if she were to accept, since she polls the best. Also, as I've said before, I believe Klobuchar would probably have a good chance against Trump. I'm fine with Harris, who at least has a reasonable chance against Trump (which Biden does not). Also, it's silly (at best) to say that Biden hasn't been diagnosed with dementia, or Parkinsonism, or anything else. We do not have access to his medical records (for obvious reasons), so to make such a declaration is off-base. (We do know, however, that a Parkinson's specialist has come to the White House multiple times. Whether Biden is taking meds for Parkinsonism is between Biden and his physicians). Maybe you should, as you yourself suggested, just JO and watch porn. Pelosi (and myself), prefer an open nomination process, rather than automatically giving Harris the nomination: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/19/us/politics/nancy-pelosi-joe-biden-drop-out.html?te=1&nl=the-morning&emc=edit_nn_20240720 "Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, the former speaker, recently told her colleagues in the California delegation that if President Biden were to end his campaign she would favor the “competitive” process of an open primary rather than an anointment of Vice President Kamala Harris as the new Democratic presidential nominee...". Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted July 21 Author Members Posted July 21 1 hour ago, unicorn said: Well, you didn't admit you were factually wrong about voting for her in the 2020 primaries. That's you, but at least now you're admitting she was only on the ballot in November. You're a doctor, not a political professional. Nor are you a lawyer. So I'm really not sure why you want to litigate this point. First, I assume that is a typo. My point was about the 2024 primaries, not 2020. Second, my point is that I, like tens of millions, voted for Kamala in BOTH the 2020 general election and 2024 Democratic primary. If you want to litigate whether the name "Kamala Harris" was in small print on the ballot, go ahead. But you've once again focused on some legalistic detail and missed the whole point. I think there is only one choice not named Joe Biden available to the Democratic Party. And that is Kamala Harris. I think we mostly agree the dam has broken on Biden. I'm not sure why you want to litigate this. Other than you would rather have Michelle Obama run. Give her a call and see if you can talk her into it. 😉 1 hour ago, unicorn said: Also, it's silly (at best) to say that Biden hasn't been diagnosed with dementia, or Parkinsonism, or anything else. I think if Biden had been diagnosed with dementia or Parkinsons, we would know. Don't you? I think he actually did an excellent job in the BET interview doing two things: 1) Establishing that while he is old, and looks weak, he is not demented. And 2) Establishing the right criteria for why, hypothetically, he should resign either now or into a second term. He said the reason he would do it is if he is diagnosed with some medical condition that makes him incapable of serving. He's right. Republicans will of course argue he was demented in 2012. Or he was demented in 2020. Or he was born demented. Or whatever. Unless Trump, who can't speak coherently, can tell us what the hidden diagnosis is, it is total political bullshit. What is not total political bullshit is that Kamala Harris will make Trump look very old, and very creepy, by comparison. Just like the raping lying felon he is. I think this is very important. When Biden announces he is no longer the nominee, he will be crucified by Republicans calling on him to resign. There will be this whole bullshit ritual of "When did you know he was demented, and what did you do?" So this is a key point. Is there proof that Donald Trump is a crook? YES. We have proof. Is there proof that Donald Trump is a rapist? YES. We have proof. Is there proof that Joe Biden is demented? NO. There is zero proof. Biden can be both a good President from 2020 to 2024 and the wrong Presidential candidate for 2025 to 2028. It has nothing to do with dementia. And at this point I'm not even sure what the word "choice" means, realistically. Biden has been so fatally damaged by his own party leaders that this is now impossible to reverse. And even if Biden's dwindling base of supporters says, "Those elitist horrible pigs! Barack Obama! Pig! Nancy Pelosi! Pig! Chuck Schumer! Pig! Hakeem Jeffries! Pig! Disgusting elitist pigs - every one!" there's still a problem. A poll says 2 in 3 DEMOCRATS want Biden to resign. More than one poll. And, let's not forget, 57 % of Americans want Donald Trump to resign, too. So who is going to listen to the people? I think Trump's MAGA supporters are fucked, and fucked, and fucked. They will say this is a coup. Right. Tell us about coups, Donald Trump. Tells us about cops, and hanging Mike Pence, and breaking the bones of the cops you adore. Liar. Thug. Crook. Harris was the #2 chosen by a collective 95 million voters. 81 million in 2020, and 14 million in 2024. Polls say most Democrats, most Independents, and almost all Republicans think Biden is too old, and they want him gone. He can choose, and almost certainly will choose, to step aside. Polls also say most Americans want Donald Trump gone, too. Because he is a crook, a liar, and a rapist with no integrity. Will Trump listen to American voters and step aside? We'll see how Susie Wiles deals with that little problem. Democratic consensus solidifies around Harris, should Biden step aside Quote It’s not that everyone has suddenly coalesced – but exhaustion is gelling into consensus. I laughed when I read that statement. Because I think it is one of the most honest statements I have read. As fucked up as everything is right now, for Democrats, I actually do see this as a blessing in disguise. Both for Democrats, and America. If 2 in 3 Democrats say Biden should step aside, that's a lot of people. Biden is a massive drag on the young voters Democrats desperately need to win, in particular. Harris will fire them up. And it's absolutely predictable that old rich white donors would say (name a White male) should be the candidate instead. And they may not be wrong. Who knows? I can see how Andy Beshear or Roy Cooper or Joel Shapiro or Mark Kelly might be great, moderate candidates. Or not. Either way, donors don't get to choose. The interesting bet now is which one of those White moderate guys will be Kamala's running mate? Or maybe Kamala will double down and go for Gretchen. I bet we will be there soon. That statement about exhaustion is very true. The smartest people in the room (to name a few, Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and Jim Clyburn) probably knew right away that any road around Joe Biden had to go straight to Kamala Harris. But they have sat back while the MSM entertained this set of amusing ideas. Like maybe Taylor Swift should host a primary. Or whatever. But at some point, sooner and sooner, Biden will get tired of fighting. And the donors will just STFU and give their money and want to get on with it. And hopefully we have not nailed our coffin shut by dumping Biden, as Lichtman is very wisely warning us. The good news I take out of his Keys is that every serious Democrat saying anything on TV or social media is using the word UNITY. (If you are interested, here's Jim Clyburn today preaching the gospel of unity. Having resurrected Biden from the dead in 2020, his job now seems to be to make 100 % sure there is no road around Biden that does not lead to Harris.) I do have one request. When you ask Michelle to be the Democratic nominee, and she says no (I'm just guessing), I have a Plan B. Could you ask her to be the one to nominate Kamala, and make the speech about why we need Kamala now? I can not think of a better person to summon the nation to unity and integrity than Michelle Obama! Quote
