Deleted Post

[TotallyOz]

Per the request of the owner of a bar, we removed a post which suggested the management of the bar had underage guys working there. We do not normally remove posts as it is not productive to do so, but this thread went to far and the accusations made against the bar were not acceptable on the site.

 

I stayed out late tonight to see a few of the bars in action. I went to the bar in question to see if the posters were accurate. I went with a Thai guy who is 22 and has been around in Sunee for a few years. I asked him to help me to access the guys in the bar that looked young. We had 5 of them over for drinks. I let my Thai guy choose and told him to pick the ones he thought looked young. One guy did not have an ID but said he was 18. As I did not see the ID, I cannot verify that. The other 4 were all over 18. One was in fact 24.

 

I did not see any groping of any of the guys. I did not see any oral. I did not see any erections. I did not see anything involving a customer and a dancer. On the contrary, it was very mild and low key. There are bars in many areas that I have seen much action between the customer and the dancer. This did not happen tonight.

 

Perhaps I hit an unusual night. Perhaps, they removed all the younger looking guys before the show started. I do not know. I do know that 4 of the 5 I had for drinks had ID and their face was on the ID card and they were all over 18.

[Guest gonefishing]

With all due respect to those concerned, I would suggest that any publicity naming bars where under-age boys can be found is playing straight into the hands of those who may use this information as a "guide" for their own ends. No matter how well-intentioned those raising the point may be, rightly or wrongly the end result is free publicity for those bars and an up to date source of information for those looking for it. While it may appear to be an easy way out, the only pragmatic solution is to minimise any mention of this illegal and unpleasant aspect of the bar / street scene.

[Gaybutton]

Once again, I'll point out that accusing and naming bars that employ under-age boys places this board in legal jeopardy due to the libel and defamation laws in Thailand.

 

Some people think the names of bars where you just know under-age boys are employed ought to be posted. The solution is very simple. If you want to name the names and make the accusations, just start up your own board. That way you can name all the names you want and make all the accusations you want and then you get to be the one who has to deal with the legal consequences.

 

I've always had great admiration for those who visit web sites and then decide to tell the owners and moderators how to run it. So, go ahead and start your own board. When you do, then you can show us all about how you're going to do it differently from the way we do things on this board.

[khaolakguy]

The actions of the Moderators in this matter speak volumes for the priorities on this forum.

[Gaybutton]

The actions of the Moderators in this matter speak volumes for the priorities on this forum.

 

Absolutely right. The owner of this board should have let the posts stand, placed himself in jeopardy of legal action by the bar(s) in question, be forced to remove the posts anyway, probably be forced to close the web site entirely or see it blocked, violate Thai libel and defamation laws, and go to great expense in order to preserve accusatory posts that were backed up with no proof of any kind. Maybe he'll decide to do it differently next time . . . just as soon as he sees you start up a board that permits the same sort of posts that were deleted.

[Guest PapaDavid]

Once again, I'll point out that accusing and naming bars that employ under-age boys places this board in legal jeopardy due to the libel and defamation laws in Thailand.

How can it be libel or defamation if the accusations are true?

Does it mean in Thailand that someone can sue you for libel or defamation just because they don't like what you say, even if it is true.?

 

I believe that the deletion of this thread is partly because the subject was getting too close for comfort for some of the people who frequent this board and Sunee Plaza.

[Guest A Rose By Any Other Name]

How can it be libel or defamation if the accusations are true?

Does it mean in Thailand that someone can sue you for libel or defamation just because they don't like what you say, even if it is true.?

 

I believe that the deletion of this thread is partly because the subject was getting too close for comfort for some of the people who frequent this board and Sunee Plaza.

 

Blah, blah, blah! Let it go for Christ's sake. This isn't a freakin' democratic society, it is a privately owned website. Like it, great. Don't like it, get out!

 

TR The Rose

[TotallyOz]

How can it be libel or defamation if the accusations are true?

Does it mean in Thailand that someone can sue you for libel or defamation just because they don't like what you say, even if it is true.?

 

I believe that the deletion of this thread is partly because the subject was getting too close for comfort for some of the people who frequent this board and Sunee Plaza.

 

As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. I do believe I met you one time. Since we are not friends, I won't tell you what I really think, I will just refer you to the post below your last one. The Rose hiit it on the nail. Get over it or move on. I hear the real estate market in Pattaya is on a downturn, if you have a place here, sell while the getting's good.

[Gaybutton]

How can it be libel or defamation if the accusations are true?

Does it mean in Thailand that someone can sue you for libel or defamation just because they don't like what you say, even if it is true.?

 

By Thai law that is exactly what it means. You can be sued for libel and defamation even if you have iron-clad proof, if it is deemed to be detrimental to a business. We don't make the Thai laws, but we do have to abide by them. If you truly believe that anyone running this web site has some sort of hidden agenda, then you simply are wrong.

 

You can argue about it with us all you want, but we are not going to place this web site in legal jeopardy. Once again, if you are adamant about posting the names of bars you feel ought to be accused, you are at liberty to start up a web site of your own. We're not going to do that here and like it or not, that's the way it is going to be, period.

[Guest PapaDavid]

By Thai law that is exactly what it means. You can be sued for libel and defamation even if you have iron-clad proof, if it is deemed to be detrimental to a business.

 

Must be something dreamt up by Thaksin and his cronies

 

I was not aware of this and if it is the case, I bow to your greater knowledge and fully understand the need to delete this thread and references to particular bars. It is just a pity that unacceptable behaviour and practices can be swept under the carpet and unsavoury businesses can flourish as a result.

Let us just hope that the new constitution, when it is drafted and approved, will address this archaic law and bring it into the 21st century !

 

[Guest PapaDavid]

As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. I do believe I met you one time. Since we are not friends, I won't tell you what I really think, I will just refer you to the post below your last one. The Rose hiit it on the nail. Get over it or move on. I hear the real estate market in Pattaya is on a downturn, if you have a place here, sell while the getting's good.

 

I've have never met you, Thank God. I would remember if I had from your habit of putting down anyone with whom you don't agree. You always say that they don't know what they are talking about or alternatively are lying - must be a programmed response on your computer.

 

As for the Rosie (or is it Chris in disguise?) I long ago placed him on ignore. If he and you (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't like the truth now and again you are free to use the ignore button on my posts.

 

I am assuming that your last sentence is a veiled threat against me? You will be happy to know that I don't have a place in Pattaya.

[TotallyOz]

I am assuming that your last sentence is a veiled threat against me? You will be happy to know that I don't have a place in Pattaya.

 

LOL No dear, it was not a veiled threat. I am a pussycat and don't threaten anyone. It was an attempt at humor. However, since you don't live here and don't have real estate holdings here, you are not affected by all the coup and immigration rumors. Many of us that admit to living here do worry about it. Many don't.

 

I've have never met you, Thank God. I would remember if I had from your habit of putting down anyone with whom you don't agree. You always say that they don't know what they are talking about or alternatively are lying

 

Please point these posts out to me.

 

If he and you (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't like the truth now and again you are free to use the ignore button on my posts.

 

"The truth. You can't handle the truth." A Few Good Men (Aren't Jack and Tom just wonderful in this movie?)

[Guest PapaDavid]

Please point these posts out to me.

 

 

Far too many to waste my time checking over. Look at your posting record and you will easily find them.

 

[TotallyOz]

Far too many to waste my time checking over. Look at your posting record and you will easily find them.

 

haha. Again. As usual, you don't know what you are talking about. But, thanks for proving my point.

[Gaybutton]

This evening I went to one of the bars that now does a nude show to see for myself. Everyone had a wonderful time, including the boys and the customers. I saw no under-age boys. The boys get to decide for themselves whether they want to participate. Many chose not to participate. There was nothing unsavoury about it at all, in my opinion. As a matter of fact, I thought it was just the thing many gay go-go bars ought to do. The boys were clearly having fun. It beats hell out of watching boys looking bored out of their minds, just standing on the stage half-heartedly moving a knee back and forth.

 

GayThailand has never put anybody down, except for you. Instead of consistent paranoia, you would be far better served to stop complaining about everything. You do have some good posts on this board, but the complaints and accusations you keep coming up with just don't hold water and it ought to be obvious to you by now that nobody lends any credence to them.

 

The libel and defamation laws were in effect long before anyone ever heard of Thaksin. I'm glad you at least see our position.

 

I've have never met you, Thank God.

 

And Will Rogers never met you, did he?

 

 

 

 

[khaolakguy]

Happy to know that both GT and GB have checked the bar in question and found that there were no under age guys there. As I wrote, I had never been there, but I am reassured that the concern expressed by several posters was apparently misplaced. As this is the case, presumably the owner would no longer mind if the name of the bar is mentioned or further promoted here? It seems a shame to miss out on the publicity!

 

I understood that this forum was hosted abroad, and that therefore the usual concern about Defamation did not apply, as a Thai Court would be unable to prove ownership of the site, and that therefore any action by a complainant was pointless.

 

Probably not worth all the hassle anyway, of upsetting people, if the point of having the site is just for personal fun.

[Guest jomtien]

Happy to know that both GT and GB have checked the bar in question and found that there were no under age guys there. As I wrote, I had never been there, but I am reassured that the concern expressed by several posters was apparently misplaced.

 

 

 

There was more than one bar in question. I'm glad you are reassured. Just remember that some posts holding differing viewpoints, even when NOT naming any bars, have been removed.

 

 

[Gaybutton]

Happy to know that both GT and GB have checked the bar in question and found that there were no under age guys there. As I wrote, I had never been there, but I am reassured that the concern expressed by several posters was apparently misplaced. As this is the case, presumably the owner would no longer mind if the name of the bar is mentioned or further promoted here? It seems a shame to miss out on the publicity!

 

I understood that this forum was hosted abroad, and that therefore the usual concern about Defamation did not apply, as a Thai Court would be unable to prove ownership of the site, and that therefore any action by a complainant was pointless.

 

Probably not worth all the hassle anyway, of upsetting people, if the point of having the site is just for personal fun.

 

Great logic, and we're still not going to mention the name of the bar(s). Perhaps you forgot about the fact that the owner of at least one bar asked that we don't and it is our intent to comply with his wishes. If the bar owner wants us to advertise for him, following his request, then he will submit a new request or he is at liberty to personally post an ad. You said it yourself . . . "presumably." Sorry, but we're not going to be goaded into posting the names based on your presumption.

 

It wouldn't matter if this web site is hosted on the moon. Some of us live here and we do not intend to try to circumvent Thai laws. If a bar owner, or anyone else for that matter, wishes to file a lawsuit against the web site owner, do you really believe he would have any problems finding the name of the owner? Do you think they don't already know anyhow?

 

You wrote, "therefore the usual concern about Defamation did not apply, as a Thai Court would be unable to prove ownership of the site, and that therefore any action by a complainant was pointless." Which Thai law school did you attend? Assuming you're a Thai attorney and are well enough versed in Thai law to know how the system works, and you also know for a fact that the usual concern doesn't apply, perhaps you'll be willing to represent this web site in court if a lawsuit does occur if we decide to follow your advice about naming bars.

 

I'm sorry, but the web site owner has already made it clear that the names of the bars are not going to be posted. I agree with him and I believe the other moderators also agree with him. It's not worth the risk. Nobody visiting Pattaya will have the slightest bit of trouble finding those bars on their own, so you might as well give it a rest.

[Guest A Rose By Any Other Name]

Must be something dreamt up by Thaksin and his cronies

 

I was not aware of this and if it is the case, I bow to your greater knowledge and fully understand the need to delete this thread and references to particular bars. It is just a pity that unacceptable behaviour and practices can be swept under the carpet and unsavoury businesses can flourish as a result.

Let us just hope that the new constitution, when it is drafted and approved, will address this archaic law and bring it into the 21st century !

 

OH MY GOD. STOP THE PRESS! Did Papa Puke just admit to lying? It is about time! Perhaps next time, you will think about what you say before you start typing away. And, in terms of the new government wiping out corruption... Don't hold your breath, Pukey. It's going to take a lot more than that to straighten out the multitude of corruption found on all levels in Thailand.

 

TR The Rose

[Gaybutton]

OH MY GOD. STOP THE PRESS! Did Papa Puke just admit to lying? It is about time! Perhaps next time, you will think about what you say before you start typing away. And, in terms of the new government wiping out corruption... Don't hold your breath, Pukey. It's going to take a lot more than that to straighten out the multitude of corruption found on all levels in Thailand.

 

TR The Rose

 

Oh, I don't think PapaDavid was lying. He was merely mistaken.

 

Corruption? What corruption? Thaksin rooted out all the corruption. Didn't you know that? He also made sure nobody in Thailand is poverty stricken anymore and he made life just wonderful for all the Thai people. They all have plenty of money now. Why, the boys are even paying the "farang" now. The farms all have young, healthy water buffalo too and all the grandmothers are also in perfect health. Corruption? Surely you jest . . . .

[Guest gonefishing]

Libel laws aside, why are some people so keen for this forum or any other to publish a guide to where to find under-age sex in Pattaya, which is exactly what they are clamouring for? Clearly, they protest too much .....

[Guest pete1969]

The truth is that one can find workers under 18 in almost every bar in LOS. The prudent person who doesn't want to commit a felony offense should always ask to see a boy's ID before they take him off. The ID may be fake, so make sure the pic is obviously the boy in front of you.

 

I think it silly to not only ask website owners to place themselves at legal risk but to also think that publicly naming bars where one thinks underage workers are available to off will in any way solve the problem of sex with underage boys in LOS. These bars pay top dollar for police protection, and too much noise about them (especially by locals who are known in the community) could bring reprisals by local mafia or others.

 

If one is offended by these bars or their business practices, then don't go to them. Ask other farang to always check a boy's ID and to not engage in illegal activities. Sadly, in LOS, there in not much more a farang can do, especially if that farang lives in the local community. In LOS, one stays out of other people's business.

 

Pete

[Gaybutton]

Libel laws aside, why are some people so keen for this forum or any other to publish a guide to where to find under-age sex in Pattaya, which is exactly what they are clamouring for? Clearly, they protest too much .....

 

I understand what you're saying and in many cases my guess is that you're right, but loaded questions make for unfair assumptions too. Someone recently posted that merely being in the Sunee Plaza area makes one a pedophile.

 

To me, it's similar to the Niddy's Nook brouhaha. The Niddy's Nook haters have probably done more to bring business their way than anything else could have done. Many people are going there out of curiosity. Now, many people will probably patronize certain bars not because they are pedophiles, but out of sheer curiosity after reading all the hoopla about what goes on. I really do not think it is fair to imply that people must be pedophiles simply because they want to know the locations of these bars.

[Guest Thaiquila]

he Niddy's Nook haters have probably done more to bring business their way than anything else could have done. Many people are going there out of curiosity. Now, many people will probably patronize certain bars not because they are pedophiles, but out of sheer curiosity after reading all the hoopla about what goes on. I really do not think it is fair to imply that people must be pedophiles simply because they want to know the locations of these bars.

 

Don't forget the cheeseburger. It's the best in Pattaya, yah know...

 

Thaiquila

[Guest thrillbill8]

By the way, why is it in BKK they can have "shows"on soi Twilight and yet in Pattaya there doesn't seem to be any. (I know,after you see the melted candle wax show, the black light show on neon paint, the foam show, the whip show, and the doggie show...brings the expression "same-same"). Why is it in Pattaya, it is all go-go boy bars and no DJ's or Balcony or Telephone Bar where you can run into area working Thai gays for a conversation that are not those skinny money boys trying to tell you how wonderful you are?