60-days on arrival waiver

[macaroni21]

9 hours ago, ChristianPFC said:

When I started traveling in SEAsia 2014-2016, I first went to countries where I could enter visa free (for Germans: Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Vietnam), and once I had seen them and no particular reason to return, I went to countries that require a visa (Lao, Cambodia, Myanmar). Now the offerings of Cambodia and Myanmar more than compensate for the effort and expense to get a visa, but starting from zero, visa free countries first for me.

Interesting... You don't mention Thailand. Have you visited yet, 🤣 ?

[reader]

From Pattaya Mail

Expats angry at huge concessions in latest Thai visa announcements

By Barry Kenyon

Longstay expats with expensive visas say the new 60 days visa-exempt policy and the 180 days Destination Thailand Visa have made the Elite visa and the annual extensions of stay for retirement and marriage worthless. Geoffrey Fisher, a Brit who recently paid 900,000 baht (about 20,000 UK pounds) for the five year Elite visa said he had wasted his money as more or less anyone can now stay in Thailand almost indefinitely for a paltry sum.

The disenchanted argue that the 60 days visa-exempt can evidently be extended at local immigration for 30 days more followed by a border run to start the whole process again. Some immigration officers at Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi airport have allegedly told new arrivals they can now do as many border runs as they like. Separately, the five years and multi-entry Destination Thailand Visa (DTV) offers 180 days on entry for 10,000 baht (around 200 UK pounds) plus the chance to extend for a further 180 days. The process can then be repeated by briefly leaving the country.

American expat Dan Silverman, who holds a yearly extension based on retirement, said, “It’s just ridiculous. I have to keep 800,000 baht in a Thai bank, obtain medical insurance, face ever-changing regulations and regularly report my Thai address throughout the year, or be fined.” He added, “And for what, when you can come and go as you please with the new visas?” Views such as this are currently being voiced widely on social media as expats digest the latest visa announcement.

Of course, the critics may be over-reacting. Information officially published so far does not specify the number of times the visa-exempt discretion may be used. The DTV requires a cash bond or other proof of 500,000 baht. It is principally aimed at digital nomads and freelancers working for foreign companies (not Thai based) and applicants are expected to show to embassies contracts of employment or portfolios of work undertaken.

Yet the foreign affairs ministry also accepts DTV applications from participants in Thai “soft power” activities such as Thai cooking classes, Muay Thai training, medical treatment, music festivals or seminars. Although applicants have to show some relevant documentation on application, there is wide concern about the ambiguities. One expat with a one year marriage extension said, “Would an appointment letter from a hospital for extracting your teeth enable you to get 180 days plus an extension of 180 days? Does a foreigner learning Thai cuisine need five years to learn how to cook?”

Immigration consultants say that the basic problem is that the foreign affairs ministry controls visas from embassies, but the immigration bureau under the interior ministry is responsible for extensions and what happens after arrival. Immigration lawyer Jessataporn Bunnag said, “The DTV throws a great deal of responsibility on embassies to check out initial applicants and on the immigration bureau to monitor extensions and repeats.” He expected some clarification once the impact of the changes had been analyzed.

Meanwhile, the Bangkok Post suggests that questions may be emailed to deeperdiveThailand@gmail.com Next week that newspaper will interview Narunchai Niddad, deputy director of consular affairs at the foreign affairs ministry. One is bound to wonder how many of the beneficiaries of the new visas will understand that, once they are in Thailand for six months or more in a calendar year, they become tax residents of Thailand and subject to the income tax policy of the Thai Revenue Department. Whatever that is.

[Moses]

24 minutes ago, reader said:

The disenchanted argue that the 60 days visa-exempt can evidently be extended at local immigration for 30 days more followed by a border run to start the whole process again. Some immigration officers at Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi airport have allegedly told new arrivals they can now do as many border runs as they like.

Bullshit

"foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry"

https://www.mfa.go.th/en/publicservice/questions-answers-on-thai-visa?cate=5d5bcb4e15e39c30600068d3

 

[vinapu]

8 hours ago, reader said:

Geoffrey Fisher, a Brit who recently paid 900,000 baht (about 20,000 UK pounds) for the five year Elite visa said he had wasted his money as more or less anyone can now stay in Thailand almost indefinitely for a paltry sum.

 

people like to complain about everything. Mr. Fisher can stay for his 5 years , no worries while people using new rules don't know if in year or three rules may be changed. That's first. Second,  as with all investments sometimes we win , sometimes we lose. We all bought non-refundable tickets or book non-refundable hotel rooms only to see them going on 30% off sale 4 days later . Or bought a visas only to see requirement removed week later. 

Moses post underscores it.

As for 'new' tax rules, quite a few complaining expats are screaming murder not realising that those mirror exactly rules at their own country. Definitely my case ( rules , not screaming)

[reader]

Mr. Fisher wasn't screwed over; he's getting exactly what he contracted for. I think his real bitch is that he doesn't like the idea that the lowlifes (most of us) are getting a better deal if we choose to take advantage of it.

[roughjock]

On 7/20/2024 at 5:46 PM, Moses said:

Bullshit

"foreigners who enter the Kingdom under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry"

https://www.mfa.go.th/en/publicservice/questions-answers-on-thai-visa?cate=5d5bcb4e15e39c30600068d3

 

This must be wrong, I’ve definitely been in Thailand more than 90 days within the last 6 months.

[Moses]

40 minutes ago, roughjock said:

This must be wrong, I’ve definitely been in Thailand more than 90 days within the last 6 months.

https://munich.thaiembassy.org/de/page/visaexemption

Please note that a total stay of 90 days within 180 days (from the first day of entry) may not be exceeded. If a longer stay is planned, a visa must be applied for in advance.

https://london.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/84498-faq

Furthermore, foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

https://brussels.thaiembassy.org/en/page/faq

Furthermore, foreigners who enter Thailand under this Tourist Visa Exemption Scheme may re-enter and stay in Thailand for a cumulative duration of stay of not exceeding 90 days within any 6-month period from the date of first entry.

So, looks like it really exists

[roughjock]

I entered Thailand at the end of January and stayed for 60 days. I left for 7 days and then returned for 30 days. That’s 90 days. I did more travelling and later returned for 5 days in June. Now, in July, I am here for 14 days.

That’s 109 days in 173 days. On my latest entry stamp, I am valid to stay until September 19. I did have a METV for the first 90 days, so perhaps this is why?

[Moses]

50 minutes ago, roughjock said:

so perhaps this is why?

IMHO: "90/180" rule is implemented by MFA, but border guards aren't part of MFA and their computer system doesn't control "cumulative duration" yet, and guys on the border have no time to manually count "cumulative days", they just check overstay by latest stamp in the passport and maybe "no more than 2 border crossing by land or sea per year" rule.  

[vinapu]

or perhaps those rules are valid from  moment  when 60 days visas were implemented ?  just a guess.

But I think Moses is right about guards taking easy route

[Patanawet]

19 hours ago, Moses said:

IMHO: "90/180" rule is implemented by MFA, but border guards aren't part of MFA and their computer system doesn't control "cumulative duration" yet, and guys on the border have no time to manually count "cumulative days", they just check overstay by latest stamp in the passport and maybe "no more than 2 border crossing by land or sea per year" rule.  

Once again, I suggest looking at today's  YouTube TNT from Tim Newton.
Again he cites current examples of arrivals  -- confusing matters even further. 

 

[reader]

The Pattaya Mail has published an editorial, calling for among things a limit on 60-day visa exemptions. They want to reverse one of the major achievements of the former government as it applies to both foreign tourist and its ASEAN neighbors.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/immigration-and-the-new-government-469019

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, reader said:

The Pattaya Mail has published an editorial, calling for among things a limit on 60-day visa exemptions. They want to reverse one of the major achievements of the former government as it applies to both foreign tourist and its ASEAN neighbors.

https://www.pattayamail.com/latestnews/news/immigration-and-the-new-government-469019

they are making quite sensible points about possible abuse of right to repetitive entries without any limits on new 60 days visa

[macaroni21]

From the Pattaya Mail: "The obvious solution is for the incoming Thai government to limit entries under the visa-exempt scheme to one or two in any twelve months’ period."

Terrible idea:  There are business travellers who need to enter the country more than 2 times within 12 months.

Basically, the problem is that the Foreign Ministry is making policy (and announcing three different versions of it) without coordination with the Immigration Department, and without ensuring that the latter can implement it. Typically TIT.

[10tazione]

If you want to limit anything, it would make more sense to limit the number of days in the country, not the number of entries. A 2-week holiday with a side trip to Cambodia ist already 2 entries.

 

[ChristianPFC]

  

On 7/20/2024 at 10:31 AM, macaroni21 said:

Interesting... You don't mention Thailand. Have you visited yet, 🤣 ?

I meant going to other countries in SEAsia as visa runs from Thailand.

  

On 8/18/2024 at 11:31 PM, vinapu said:

they are making quite sensible points about possible abuse of right to repetitive entries without any limits on new 60 days visa

Days/entries to Thailand are an upper limit, not a right. Even with a valid visa, it's at the discretion of the officer to let you in.

Maximum of 90 days visa exempt within 180 days would affect me, as I spend about 120 of 180 days.

On entry, immigration does not know how long I'm going to stay (unless they ask to see a flight out of Thailand, but I can take a later flight). If I enter within the 90 of 180 days, but depart with more than 90 of 180 days, what is going to happen? Or they calculate how long I can stay without violating 90 of 180, and stamp me in accordingly? I have to watch how this is implemented with other travelers before I get into this position.