reader Posted July 12 Posted July 12 6 hours ago, vinapu said: But yes, I agree we should leave running bars to the owners as they are ones who really see bottom line even if at times they don't notice what they see. Reminds me of what the butcher told the man who asked to borrow money. “I have agreement with the bank. I don’t loan money and they don’t sell knock wurst. vinapu 1 Quote
macaroni21 Posted July 13 Posted July 13 8 hours ago, forrestreid said: On that topic, does anybody know if Big Tool in Walking street in Pattaya, is still going? I can't answer that question, but isn't @abidismaili in Pattaya at the moment? Also, this is best placed in the Gay Pattaya forum. There is an instagram account https://www.instagram.com/club_pattaya_legacy/ , maybe those who are more savvy can follow it and see dates of its latest posts? Quote
macaroni21 Posted July 13 Posted July 13 14 hours ago, reader said: Why is massage business performing as indeed a traditional business compared to the bars? One factor that I believe goes unappreciated is culture. While farangs—particularly those from Europe and North America—are accustomed to lap dances and more intimate customer contact, Asians love the show for itself: the drag queens, the pageantry, the dancing, the comedy. They come to be entertained. Farangs come for the display of bodies. In the end, the bosses aren’t stupid. They’re aware of what attracts us but they’re more attuned to the numbers: who’s paying admission and buying those bottles. You're on to something there. I agree that lap dances are virtually unknown throughout Asia and so it may be something Asian customers in Thai bars would not be demanding. But these things can change. After all, near-naked gogo girls and boys twirling themselves around poles also came to Asia quite late. While it is true that some bars with cabaret-type shows are doing well and their audiences seem to be majority Asian, I would be careful not ascribe it to an Asian preference for shows. After all, the offing bars - bars which downplay their shows and focus more on selling their boys - are also predominantly Asian in their customer traffic. Think Hotmale, Fresh Boy, Moonlight (and Toy Boys in Pattaya). I remember a dinner party some years ago in Singapore with a whole bunch of gay Singapore guys - friends of friends - many of whom were frequent visitors to Thailand. They dissed the cabaret-type shows and very much preferred the ambiance of offing bars; they were also very much into "massage" places. I think a better explanation lies in the hetero/gay divide. IMO the bars with splashy shows appear to do better not because they attract Asians, but because they attract heteros. I see the current gogo bars slowly bifurcating into (a) show bars and giving up the offing side of its business. A handful of bars remain as (b) offing bars. By "Show bars" I mean places like The Venue in Pattaya where taking a boy out is not on the agenda (with rare exceptions depending on the dancer). These bars may have a courtesan side to it, where the performers sit with customers, teasing and flattering them for biggish tips, and enticing customers to splash on bottles. I think that's where BoyzBoyzBoyz has gone, and the 1,000-baht off fee may be a signal that they're not interested in offs anymore (I also wonder if a different off fee applies to female customers). More and more, I see Jupiter (Bangkok) evolving in this direction. In my estimation, show bars can be very profitable, but in Bangkok with its high overheads, they will also need to be more hetero-women-oriented than gay-oriented because they need the traffic in volume. Eventually, e.g. Jupiter, they may discontinue the offing side of its business and just focus on shows and courtesans. An uncoming report in ShamelessMack, from a recent visit to Banana Room, will illustrate this transformation. Toy Boys (Pattaya) is an example of a pure offing bar - essentially a brothel that displays its service-providers in a drinking environment for customers' selection. I think A-bomb (Pattaya) is too. Hotmale is coming close. What little show Hotmale has now is entirely performed by its numbertag boys, with no katoey component. Fresh Boy, Tawan/The One, Dream Boys Pattaya are close to being like Hotmale; the drag component of their shows is shrinking and may in time disappear altogether. What performances remain after that would be amateurish dick displays -- which would be in line with a business objective of encouraging offs. Because offing bars have little appeal to heteros - we've heard again and again that the straight women seldom take boys off even when they go into these bars - pure offing bars have to remain small and therefore have to watch their costs very carefully. Like massage shops, pure offing bars can be viable though they will have higher overheads (e.g. wages to boys in attendance, rent in expensive parts of the city, tea money to you-know-who), but then they also sell drinks unlike massage shops. (Actually, they need to rent less floor space than a massage parlour). The uncomfortable in-between would be places like Dream Boy Bangkok and Moonlight. Currently, they are trying to be both a show bar and an offing bar. How long can this uncomfortable straddling of both sides last? If I have to make a wild guess, I think Dream Boy will evolve towards a show bar* and Moonlight will evolve towards an offing bar - perhaps a more respectable one without flashing dicks. *Shows don't have to be slick cabaret acts. Banana Room seems to be leading in this space. Dream Boy, if it evolves into a place that is mainly a show bar, may find itself squeezed into the niche of offering shock value freak shows to hetero traffic. It already has older performers whom few customers would consider offing, hired to perform its explciit shows. jamiebee and vinapu 2 Quote
Kiwi306 Posted July 13 Author Posted July 13 I replied to this thread yesterday, but somehow it didn't go through, so I'll try again. It was bad enough last year discovering that the inimitable Babylon sauna had closed but Tawan was still great, even though in a smaller venue. So I will certainly visit Tawan bar in its new form and hope that it still meets expectations. Another question then. Could someone please recommend a bar where you are likely to find guys who are a bit beefier and where you won't be charged an arm and a leg for entrance and offing. However, I didn't mind those charges at Tawan when I last visited, as I knew what I was likely to encounter there. jamiebee 1 Quote
abidismaili Posted July 13 Posted July 13 2 hours ago, macaroni21 said: I can't answer that question, but isn't @abidismaili in Pattaya at the moment? Also, this is best placed in the Gay Pattaya forum. There is an instagram account https://www.instagram.com/club_pattaya_legacy/ , maybe those who are more savvy can follow it and see dates of its latest posts? I have been back in the Netherlands since last Sunday Quote
vinapu Posted July 13 Posted July 13 3 hours ago, Kiwi306 said: Another question then. Could someone please recommend a bar where you are likely to find guys who are a bit beefier and where you won't be charged an arm and a leg for entrance and offing. However, I didn't mind those charges at Tawan when I last visited, as I knew what I was likely to encounter there. with exception of models off fee at Moonlight (1000 for models but still 500 for floor guys ) for all I know all bars in Bangkok are more or less on the same pricing level, 500 admission , drink included , 500 off fee . Banana is cheaper but beefier guys there would be rarity . Tawan , Moonlight, Jupiter, Dreamboys , Hot Male , in this order are 5 bars where you see some meat on the some guys at least, other three are twink kingdom Kiwi306, jamiebee and Tantric 1 2 Quote
reader Posted July 13 Posted July 13 I believe ggobkk’s current post “Time to return” sheds some light on the discussion. His report about Good Boy is spot on and makes the case that it’s unlikely to deviate from its successful format of showcasing the boys to give them the best shot at making money the old fashion way: tips, drinks and offs. Although Jupiter has a distinct niche in the market, I doubt it could maintain its current stable if getting offed was not on the table. Guess what I’m saying is that if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it to satisfy the minority farangs. Asians, gay or otherwise, ring the cash registers far more often. vinapu 1 Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 13 Posted July 13 22 hours ago, vinapu said: Galia omnia est divida in partes tres I didn't know Julius Caesar made it to Bangkok! Not sure what he would have made of go go bars! vinapu 1 Quote
vinapu Posted July 14 Posted July 14 13 hours ago, Keithambrose said: I didn't know Julius Caesar made it to Bangkok! Not sure what he would have made of go go bars! I ask him tomorrow and let you know jamiebee and reader 2 Quote
jason1975 Posted July 14 Posted July 14 17 hours ago, reader said: I believe ggobkk’s current post “Time to return” sheds some light on the discussion. His report about Good Boy is spot on and makes the case that it’s unlikely to deviate from its successful format of showcasing the boys to give them the best shot at making money the old fashion way: tips, drinks and offs. Although Jupiter has a distinct niche in the market, I doubt it could maintain its current stable if getting offed was not on the table. Guess what I’m saying is that if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it to satisfy the minority farangs. Asians, gay or otherwise, ring the cash registers far more often. Even though bars such as Jupiter and Dreamboys make much of their profits from customers ordering whisky bottles, it cannot do away with offs as their many Asian customers (both male and female) frequently take the guys off besides drinking with them. The guys are obviously happy with offs as they earn $$$! I believe its unlikely for any bar in Silom area to transform to a full show-only bar. Probably the one successful show-only bar that I can think of is Fake Club but that is far away from Silom and is mostly patronised by local Thais. 10tazione, jamiebee, vinapu and 1 other 4 Quote
macaroni21 Posted July 14 Posted July 14 23 hours ago, Kiwi306 said: Could someone please recommend a bar where you are likely to find guys who are a bit beefier and where you won't be charged an arm and a leg for entrance and offing. However, I didn't mind those charges at Tawan when I last visited, as I knew what I was likely to encounter there. @vinapu has given a good reply. A lot depends on what @Kiwi306 means by "beefier". All the time we see different tastes among members of this board, and different ways of understanding what looks like similar terms. I have found that even among my own friends, they have vastly different understandings of the word "beefier", and what I have learnt from observation is that it may depend on the speaker's own size. If the speaker is 70kg, then 80 - 85 kg is likely to look beefy (assuming it's not mostly fat). But if the speaker is himself 90 kg, then an 85 kg sex worker will fall short. The beefier ones in Tawan are in the 90 - 100 kg range. Very few of the "beefier" ones in the other bars would be more than 85 kg, and when they are, it's not as much muscle as the Tawan guys. Take for example these Models (that's what the bar calls them) from Moonlight. ttps://www.facebook.com/MoonlightBangkok/videos/4976894425769483 Generally speaking, they'd be the biggest or most sculpted boys Moonlight has. Vinapu reported that their off fee is 1000 baht (I'll take his word for it since I have no personal experience). What's the tip they expect in the hotel room - 5000 baht? Moonlight has some good-looking boys in their rotation (what he calls "floor boys") but they are not quite the same standard as their Models. My estimate is that they are mostly in the 60 - 75 kg range. I can't link to examples since these guys are not on Moonlight's social media. ... just adding context to what Vinapu has said. jamiebee, Kiwi306 and vinapu 1 2 Quote
vinapu Posted July 15 Posted July 15 On 7/14/2024 at 12:32 AM, macaroni21 said: Generally speaking, they'd be the biggest or most sculpted boys Moonlight has. Vinapu reported that their off fee is 1000 baht (I'll take his word for it since I have no personal experience). What's the tip they expect in the hotel room - 5000 baht? Your guess is about right, it's a while since I offed model from there but from their mamasans I know they expect 5000 to 7000 K ,It seems that some Jupiter guys are trying to go in that direction as well, not without success. But as always a lot depends of our negotiating skills and time of night perhaps as well as closer to closing times boys may be more amendable to more reasonable fees reader 1 Quote
ggobkk Posted July 15 Posted July 15 I was on planes most of last Thursday and Friday and, so, didn’t get a chance to read this topic when I saw it and decided is was a must read before updating my return to Thailand report. Much of the second installment is related to club hopping and the changes I noted since I last visited in May 2023. I learned a few things and confirmed some thoughts/suspicions. With a few real facts. Just a walk to Phat Pong@2 tells that from the Weed dealer and pink Wrestling emporium to Foodland a plethora of plethora of bars, clubs including those that feature Phat Phongs traditional welcomes have infiltrated the retreat founded when Sklylight disappeared onto construction dust. I will confirm Vinapu’s Moonlight pricing based on pre-covid pricing experience. I’ll leave other things to my own topic section measuring memories and reality. Memory goes back to the mid-80s where my experience was mainly ar NYC’s Adonis where I knew how to nod and wink and met. Now in a foreign land, I hesitantly (maybe the younger me was nervous) letting a barker hustle me into a club for boys and men with men on stage and on staff. I think maybe from the staff explained numbers to me. I winning b guide k me on an introduction tour that he had given many times prior. There were a number of rooms upstairs where we adjourned for a shower annd jacuzzi and some introductory but advanced credit stamp study. I must have shown some promise as my tutor offered to walk me back to my hotel and to be my guide the next day. Memories My appreciation goes out to Reader, vinapu, and macaroni21 as well as others for making this topic informative. One can never be toooooo old to read and learn. reader and vinapu 2 Quote
vinapu Posted July 15 Posted July 15 4 hours ago, ggobkk said: One can never be toooooo old to read and learn. ...and to use that information to make vacations more interesting and exciting Quote
Members sydneyboy1 Posted July 16 Members Posted July 16 I think the model Mr Nicky at Moonlight is a stunner. Has anyone here offed him? Quote
vinapu Posted July 16 Posted July 16 9 hours ago, sydneyboy1 said: I think the model Mr Nicky at Moonlight is a stunner. Has anyone here offed him? you can always count on me, lol I did twice but it's old story, from October 2018 as reported here https://www.gayguides.com/forums/topic/12040-short-time-october-2018-adventures/page/3/ day 1 and 8. after that trip somehow I never offed him as got enamored with one of their floor boys A and after covid also with Y, reader and sydneyboy1 1 1 Quote
jason1975 Posted July 16 Posted July 16 On 7/15/2024 at 3:26 PM, vinapu said: Your guess is about right, it's a while since I offed model from there but from their mamasans I know they expect 5000 to 7000 K ,It seems that some Jupiter guys are trying to go in that direction as well, not without success. But as always a lot depends of our negotiating skills and time of night perhaps as well as closer to closing times boys may be more amendable to more reasonable fees 5k to 7k is for long time I presume? Quote
vinapu Posted July 16 Posted July 16 1 hour ago, jason1975 said: 5k to 7k is for long time I presume? never heard anybody offed model from Moonlight long time so it looks it may be for perhaps unrushed , but still short time. One of my forum friends when getting quotation from mamasan of 8000 for certain model switched to half price floor boy and was very happy. Either boys are too greedy or they know market better than us and know that it's what they will get frequently enough to stick to their prices. As I often say , it's market economy and plenty of reasonably priced options exist. It's matter of some leg work only. Neither they owe us an off nor we owe one to them. Quote
AsianExplorer Posted July 16 Posted July 16 On 7/11/2024 at 10:13 AM, macaroni21 said: He can't take a boy back. they can book a love hotel for a very low price for you. vinapu 1 Quote
Kiwi306 Posted July 18 Author Posted July 18 I went to Tawan (One) bar last night. There were only about 4 customers there. Three boys were standing on the stage and a few others were sitting around, mainly glued to their phones. I remember the days when you would walk in and the boys would automatically come up and start fondling you. The purpose of my visit was to meet up with one of the guys who had left such an impression on me last year. Then he appeared and recognized me immediately. So back to the hotel we went. He was meant to be in the show which was due to start in 15 minutes. I told him I would wait for the show, but we decided to leave straightaway anyway. So I didn't get to see the show, but I will stay for it next time. Times are tough for these Tawan guys. No work for 3 months and now they have to put up with low patronage. I hope there will be a bigger crowd at the weekend. jamiebee and vinapu 2 Quote
vinapu Posted July 18 Posted July 18 16 minutes ago, Kiwi306 said: Times are tough for these Tawan guys. No work for 3 months and now they have to put up with low patronage. I hope there will be a bigger crowd at the weekend. it could be just bad luck, my friend who visited mid week about 2 weeks ago told me bar was pretty full. But fact the he went with you right away not waiting for show seems to confirm that times are tough. Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 19 Posted July 19 On 7/18/2024 at 5:21 AM, vinapu said: it could be just bad luck, my friend who visited mid week about 2 weeks ago told me bar was pretty full. But fact the he went with you right away not waiting for show seems to confirm that times are tough. Does the fact that this is the low season, so called, make a difference? Are there a lot more customers in the high season? Quote
vinapu Posted July 20 Posted July 20 4 hours ago, Keithambrose said: Does the fact that this is the low season, so called, make a difference? Are there a lot more customers in the high season? of course it does and for some bars it may be unsurmountable obstacle to survive till next high season - see sad fate of Sol Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 20 Posted July 20 7 hours ago, vinapu said: of course it does and for some bars it may be unsurmountable obstacle to survive till next high season - see sad fate of Sol Thanks. I am sure that you are doing your best to help out! vinapu 1 Quote
