Kiwi306 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 I am looking for recommendations for bar shows, especially erotic. It seems that Tawan in its new form has gone downhill. I am likely to visit it anyhow at some point, but I would appreciate what other bars are worth visiting. Cheers. Quote
Members Riobard Posted July 11 Members Posted July 11 IMO Moonlight is the least pedestrian of a generally poor showing over the better part of a high season month’s visit. To each his own, and my bias is driven by 48 years of strip club interfacing, I do grasp the appeal of a night out in a club atmosphere, but erotic payoffs in BKK seemed better and more naturalistic when arranged to occur in private settings. As interesting posters like @macaroni21have pointed out … apologies if I have distorted here … the clubs could inflate appeal more broadly with hotter guys than currently exist giving private lap dances and not necessarily obligated to execute more advanced sexual interaction. They could conceivably be selective in going further with clients based on their appraisal of match-ability. vinapu, jamiebee and BL8gPt 3 Quote
Popular Post macaroni21 Posted July 11 Popular Post Posted July 11 Thanks, @Riobard for those kind words. Lap dances inject scaling into bars' product offer - that's what started me on this suggestion. It's like this: most businesses would try to offer a range of products to suit different budgets. For example, airlines have first class, business class, premium economy, economy. and then major airlines often have a low-cost subsidiary too. Shampoo makers usually have different brands at different price points, and each brand may have different bottle sizes, again to cater to a diverse market. Less visible is that the lower end of the product ranges are used to generate volume and thus spread the fixed costs. What has struck me about gogo bars in Thailand is that they really have just one product and one price point - the off fee (500 baht?) and after that, the compensation to the boy, now averaging 2000 - 2500 baht. If the customer is not prepared to spend that amount, the customer gets next to no satisfaction from a visit. It's an all-or-nothing set-up. There are potentially plenty of customers who could be attracted with additional product offers. For example, a customer who has come from a massage with happy ending, and (being older, perhaps) does not think it worthwhile to off a boy for another full-service bed-romp. Or a customer, e.g. from a middle-income country, who is travelling in a group and sharing a room. He can't take a boy back. Lap dances can pull some spending out of these customers and provide some thrill and fun, even if not the full works. In turn, a reputation for lap dancing pulls more customers into a bar, and drink sales go up (generate volume and spread the fixed costs - rent, wait staff). It's equally important to see it from the other angle. For the boys working in bars, it's currently also a ridiculous all-or-nothing set-up. They either hit jackpot on the night they're on duty (with an off) or go home empty handed, save for a 100-baht tip or two. Lap dances allow them to earn a bit more (e.g. 400 baht for 10 minutes?), and they can serve more than one customer a night, so that there is a lower risk of a night with no income and having to go back to his lodgings with empty pockets. This makes the bar attractive for boys to work in. The bar can also attract boys to work there who are happy to give lap dances but are otherwise reluctant to be taken out i.e. boys who would exhibit and interact superficially to make money but don't do full sex. This can be a two-edged sword for the bar's reputation, but if carefully managed can still work. Sorry @Kiwi306 that I am going off topic. Personally I don't think there is any worthwhile erotic entertainment in Thai gogo bars anymore. The only one I can think of is X-boys Pattaya, but it's quite rough at the edges. Beware too, the last time I was there, the off fee was 800 baht! Lucky, vinapu, Riobard and 3 others 5 1 Quote
Members Riobard Posted July 11 Members Posted July 11 All excellent points, @macaroni21. Do you think there is any legal prohibition to a VIP area with lapdance options? That format is the usual playbook for female stripper bars elsewhere and the general guidance for male entertainer equivalence. I just don’t know all the rules there in spite of substantial exposure to Patpong, but I assume the model that we mutually propose is all above board. vinapu 1 Quote
macaroni21 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 It's very hard to imagine that a bar permitted (in one way or another) to provide big-cock parades and other acts involving nudity on its main stage is prohibited from nudity in some screened-off corner, but TIT, so I don't really know. But there's a simple work-around if there is a prohibition. If I were a bar, I'd rent a satellite location a short walk away, a simple upstairs room or two. A room can be divided into 2 or 3 screened corners. When a customer orders a lap dance, he pays at the counter, and the boy takes him to that satellite location. The boy is told by the bar that he must return within, say, 10 minutes. The bar also keeps the customer's seat and drink for his return. Riobard, jamiebee, vinapu and 1 other 4 Quote
Members Riobard Posted July 11 Members Posted July 11 26 minutes ago, macaroni21 said: But there's a simple work-around if there is a prohibition. The Patpong mayoralty is yours to lose. vinapu and jamiebee 2 Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 11 Posted July 11 46 minutes ago, macaroni21 said: It's very hard to imagine that a bar permitted (in one way or another) to provide big-cock parades and other acts involving nudity on its main stage is prohibited from nudity in some screened-off corner, but TIT, so I don't really know. But there's a simple work-around if there is a prohibition. If I were a bar, I'd rent a satellite location a short walk away, a simple upstairs room or two. A room can be divided into 2 or 3 screened corners. When a customer orders a lap dance, he pays at the counter, and the boy takes him to that satellite location. The boy is told by the bar that he must return within, say, 10 minutes. The bar also keeps the customer's seat and drink for his return. All very sensible. vinapu and jamiebee 2 Quote
vinapu Posted July 11 Posted July 11 lots of good ideas from you two above, there's only one problem - how to introduce them in practice if none of you owes the bar. I'm not trying to be sarcastic here, believe me. Idea of lap dances is great and I too wonder why Thai bars did not catch on it (yet ?). It has advantage of cheap fun although , say , 5 lap dances at 400 , 10 minutes each , comes to 2000 which can be exchanged for more intimate and comprehensive performance but that is for clients to assess if it's worthwhile. Second advantage is allowing for familiarize ourselves with potential off, exchange Lines etc without going full off way. I still am big fan of Thai bars and always can't wait to be back from day of return from my trip but one thing I fully agree with those less enthusiastic. Owners lack creativity and are content with established way of doing things whether they work or not and only change they can envision is raising prices. Last creative invention I can think of was Moonlight decision to create separate class of models and there was a lot of buzz around idea in it's time but even that seems to be fizzling out as turnaround is too slow and novelty become stale bread. jamiebee and BL8gPt 2 Quote
vinapu Posted July 11 Posted July 11 5 hours ago, Kiwi306 said: I am looking for recommendations for bar shows, especially erotic. It seems that Tawan in its new form has gone downhill. I am likely to visit it anyhow at some point, but I would appreciate what other bars are worth visiting. Don't be discouraged by what you read about here. Downhill for one may be uphill for another. For every client lamenting demise of f***k show will be another one relieved that such display is no longer there. Friendly and uninhibited approach of Tawan guys may be tiresome for those who prefer to be left alone ponding their choices and they may like Jupiter better with their boys disinterested looks. Two advices I gladly repeat for 427th time , all you need is just one bar and one boy in it and always go and see for yourself. things change from Wednesday to Saturday even in the same bar so two visitors may report different goings. As for erotic, you will not see frontal nudity in Moonlight and only sometimes glimpse in Jupiter but you may in all other BKK bars. F**; shows seem to be absent at the moment but that may change at any moment. For everything else it may be matter of luck and personal taste. I.e i find shower show (Banana, Fresh Boys, XBoys pattaya may provide for those ) erotic if at least one of performers is on hunky side but not if both are in urgent need of nutritious meal. I can provide long list of our members who disagree with me immediately and counter that hunks are good to move furniture , not to perform on the stage jamiebee and BL8gPt 2 Quote
bkkmfj2648 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 1 hour ago, macaroni21 said: What has struck me about gogo bars in Thailand is that they really have just one product and one price point Macaroni - you are GREAT. I wish that you were the mayor of Pattaya - as you could make things so much better here..... You wrote in the context of gogo bars, but if you have visited the Jomtien Supertown Complex - with the boring bar manager mantra of: "farang sit farang drink", those 30+ bars are so ripe for your philosophy to add some true entertainment and/or alternative value otherwise it just continues to be so boring... vinapu and jamiebee 2 Quote
vinapu Posted July 11 Posted July 11 3 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said: You wrote in the context of gogo bars, but if you have visited the Jomtien Supertown Complex - with the boring bar manager mantra of: "farang sit farang drink", those 30+ bars are so ripe for your philosophy to add some true entertainment and/or alternative value otherwise it just continues to be so boring... I don't remember who said it first , Plato , Spinoza or perhaps Edith Piaff " men bored in boy bar is bored with life" jamiebee and reader 2 Quote
vinapu Posted July 11 Posted July 11 8 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said: Macaroni - you are GREAT. +1 Quote
bkkmfj2648 Posted July 11 Posted July 11 1 minute ago, vinapu said: " men bored in boy bar is bored with life" well that definitely does not describe me. My life outside of the Jomtien Supertown Complex is VERY full and complete with little or no extra free time to squeeze in more activities. reader and vinapu 2 Quote
macaroni21 Posted July 12 Posted July 12 11 hours ago, vinapu said: Owners lack creativity and are content with established way of doing things whether they work or not and only change they can envision is raising prices. Indeed, we've discussed this before, but the funny thing is that such inertia is only in the Thai gogo and host bars. In the massage sector, they behave as any business would behave. They have a range of product offers as evidenced by the lengthy menu boards outside their shopfronts or on their Line advertising: Foot massage, Thai massage, Oil massage, Aroma oil massage, Coconut oil massage, Scrub combos. 60-minutes, 90-minutes, 120-minutes. Many Saphan Khwai places, in their Line feeds, spell out which boys are top, which are versatile. Their tip ranges also vary, some as low as 800 baht, others (GooGuy, for example) ask for 4,000 baht. More recently, we see discounts and packages (e.g. 5 sessions for xxxx baht).... jamiebee, vinapu and splinter1949 3 Quote
vinapu Posted July 12 Posted July 12 As always your analysis is spot on. Newish place by Chong Nonsi BTS called Prestige is even offering 'beat jet lag course ' which I'm inclined to take at next possibility if only because I noticed that with age I'm taking long flights better but jet lags are ravaging me more and more. As for GooGuy , yes few boys are requesting 4000 for outcall but that seems to be an exception rather than norm there, others seem to be advertising +- 2000 to 2500, still expensive but what is cheap those days ? Oh I forgot, Saphan Kwai guys TMax and jamiebee 2 Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 12 Posted July 12 4 hours ago, vinapu said: As always your analysis is spot on. Newish place by Chong Nonsi BTS called Prestige is even offering 'beat jet lag course ' which I'm inclined to take at next possibility if only because I noticed that with age I'm taking long flights better but jet lags are ravaging me more and more. As for GooGuy , yes few boys are requesting 4000 for outcall but that seems to be an exception rather than norm there, others seem to be advertising +- 2000 to 2500, still expensive but what is cheap those days ? Oh I forgot, Saphan Kwai guys Is Prestige a new gay massage place? Quote
vinapu Posted July 12 Posted July 12 3 hours ago, Keithambrose said: Is Prestige a new gay massage place? yes, apparently pretty upscale and into legitimate massage with hopes Quote
Keithambrose Posted July 12 Posted July 12 34 minutes ago, vinapu said: yes, apparently pretty upscale and into legitimate massage with hopes Also illegitimate, I hope! Quote
vinapu Posted July 12 Posted July 12 17 minutes ago, Keithambrose said: Also illegitimate, I hope! we need to wait until somebody braves there and reports Quote
Popular Post reader Posted July 12 Popular Post Posted July 12 10 hours ago, macaroni21 said: Indeed, we've discussed this before, but the funny thing is that such inertia is only in the Thai gogo and host bars. In the massage sector, they behave as any business would behave. They have a range of product offers as evidenced by the lengthy menu boards outside their shopfronts or on their Line advertising: Foot massage, Thai massage, Oil massage, Aroma oil massage, Coconut oil massage, Scrub combos. 60-minutes, 90-minutes, 120-minutes. Many Saphan Khwai places, in their Line feeds, spell out which boys are top, which are versatile. Their tip ranges also vary, some as low as 800 baht, others (GooGuy, for example) ask for 4,000 baht. More recently, we see discounts and packages (e.g. 5 sessions for xxxx baht).... Agree about the distinction between bars and massage business. As cited, the competition among Saphan Kwai shops is particularly keen at the moment. One Spa was leader of the pack for a while but other shops were quick to catch on and now actively promoting themselves on line. Most aggressive is Phetboy with what now appears to offer the most number of masseurs under one roof. Although most of the boys are listed elsewhere, there always seems to be four or five available in the shop. And it’s a 24/7 operation. Why is massage business performing as indeed a traditional business compared to the bars? One factor that I believe goes unappreciated is culture. While farangs—particularly those from Europe and North America—are accustomed to lap dances and more intimate customer contact, Asians love the show for itself: the drag queens, the pageantry, the dancing, the comedy. They come to be entertained. Farangs come for the display of bodies. In the end, the bosses aren’t stupid. They’re aware of what attracts us but they’re more attuned to the numbers: who’s paying admission and buying those bottles. splinter1949, bkkmfj2648, 10tazione and 2 others 5 Quote
Members Riobard Posted July 12 Members Posted July 12 22 hours ago, vinapu said: lots of good ideas from you two above, there's only one problem - how to introduce them in practice if none of you owes the bar. I always owe it. That’s the premise. They spot me several metres out and the indebtedness abacus begins clicking. Quote
vinapu Posted July 12 Posted July 12 2 hours ago, reader said: In the end, the bosses aren’t stupid. They’re aware of what attracts us but they’re more attuned to the numbers: who’s paying admission and buying those bottles. you may be bit too optimistic here. Sad fate of short lived Sol bar is one case. There were warning signals, I witness one - young farang couple leaving loudly complaining about level of noise and nobody did anything including boss , present in the bar at the time. Second is sudden demise of Tawan, cause unknown but certainly not shortage of customers. Both kinds of rumors circulated were pointing to the owner. On another hand I remember outcry when Dreamboys in soi Twilight raised drink price to 650 and still remainded most packed bar in the soi. Another case is BBB in Pattaya, looks that conversion to fully dressed ( some even in long sleeves ) boys on the stage did not hurt attendance. Neither did 1000 baht off fee since stage was packed with boys both last times I was there. But yes, I agree we should leave running bars to the owners as they are ones who really see bottom line even if at times they don't notice what they see. The same is case with boys asking for tips we may consider unreasonable, they may be fishing for higher price but also they may know what we don't , for example generous Indonesian is coming tomorrow and he tips 5000 a night just for drinking together, no body contact required nor expected ( authentic case of Tawan boy explanation when declining 4000 tip offer for another night in times when 3000 was considered generous ) reader, jamiebee and 10tazione 3 Quote
vinapu Posted July 12 Posted July 12 1 hour ago, Riobard said: I always owe it. That’s the premise. They spot me several metres out and the indebtedness abacus begins clicking. Galia omnia est divida in partes tres Quote
thaiophilus Posted July 12 Posted July 12 52 minutes ago, vinapu said: partes tres veni, vidi, vici? or perhaps vidi, veni, vicerunt would be nearer the mark? Quote
forrestreid Posted July 12 Posted July 12 (edited) On 7/11/2024 at 1:08 PM, Riobard said: As interesting posters like @macaroni21have pointed out … apologies if I have distorted here … the clubs could inflate appeal more broadly with hotter guys than currently exist giving private lap dances and not necessarily obligated to execute more advanced sexual interaction. They could conceivably be selective in going further with clients based on their appraisal of match-ability. On that topic, does anybody know if Big Tool in Walking street in Pattaya, is still going? As I reported in February, it actually had lapdances, (western style, they never got naked). Edited July 12 by forrestreid grammar Quote
