Another Sunee Bar Raided: Underage Boys Discovered

[Guest fountainhall]

Pattaya, the 24th of July 2010: At approximately 1:00am on Saturday, Colonel Atisawit Kamonrat (Chon-Buri Immigration Superintendent) in cooperation with the Narcotics Control Board conducted a raid at the “Nice Boy Night Club” in Soi Sunee Plaza, South Pattaya. The operation was instigated following an anonymous tip-off that the gay bar was providing underage boys for prostitution services and was involved with narcotics supply.

 

Using an undercover agent of foreign nationality, who infiltrated the bar posing as a customer who required the services of an underage employee. Paying a Bt1,300 baht fee he was taken with the boy to an upstairs service room before police stormed the downstairs bar. Upstairs officers confiscated a large amount of illegal pornography and found evidence to support acts of prostitution services being offered at the premises.

 

During the raid of the “Nice Boy Night Club,” a popular A-Go-Go bar amongst several gay establishments on the street, officers were unable to uncover any narcotics, however some 90 people (approximately 50 staff) were temporarily detained. Resultant checks revealed two boys under the age of 15 and three boys under the age of 18 working in the establishment

 

Full story at Underage Boy Bar Raided

 

When will they ever learn - 2 boys under 15 and 3 under 18! But I'm rather surprised about the "undercover agent of foreign nationality". Has anyone ever heard of the police using this tactic before?

[Gaybutton]

But I'm rather surprised about the "undercover agent of foreign nationality". Has anyone ever heard of the police using this tactic before?

I don't know whether an "undercover agent of foreign nationality" has ever been used, but the part that I'm wondering about is the 'anonymous tip.' Why is it that everyone seems to know what goes on in some of these bars except the police?

 

I also don't know why Nice Boys would have been involved in this crap in the first place. That's one of the few bars that seemed to be doing well, but there you have it.

 

This is also the first Sunee Plaza raid I've heard about since before the Red Shirt demonstrations. I can't help but be a little suspicious that there was more behind this raid than the police suddenly figuring out that a Sunee Plaza bar just might be employing under-age boys or just might have employees on drugs. They needed a foreign undercover agent to give them a clue? Ok . . .

 

There is a second article on Pattaya One: Underage Boys found in Police raid of South Pattaya Gay Bar | Pattaya One News

 

Both articles are essentially the same, but the Pattaya One article says that the farang customers were also subjected to urine tests for drugs. That is unusual. During raids the farang customers are usually just told to leave, but apparently not this time.

 

Neither article says whether the bar will be allowed to remain open or if it is now shut down. If anyone happens to be in the area this evening, please let us know.

[KhorTose]

I love the title of this topic. In the several years I have been a member of Gay Thailand message boards, I've only seen this title and variations of it around 50 times----AT LEAST. I cannot condemn the sex trade for adults, as it has always been part of every culture throughout history, but I can and do condemn a country that does not protect its children. Say what you want about Thaksin, but he was the first person who tried to clean up the sex industry in this country, and for that he should be given some kind of credit.

[Gaybutton]

clean up the sex industry in this country

That's one my peeves. If I had my way, any bar caught employing under-age boys would be immediately shut down - permanently. It really gets beyond annoying when the customers are the ones who end up having to take responsibility for checking ages, having to deal with the possibility of being caught up in raids, urine tests, etc.

 

It also gets beyond annoying when you consistently hear that the powers-that-be are working to rid Pattaya of the pedophiles, and yet even when caught most of these bars are allowed to remain open, are shut down for only a short period of time, are permitted to reopen under a different name, and the people responsible for letting under-age boys work in these places never seem to have to stand trial and be sent to prison. Instead, they pay a fine and are right back plying their trade usually within 24 hours.

 

Those who are not pedophiles end up directly affected by all of this nonsense and so do the bars that operate legitimately. There seems to be no end to it.

 

If the bar has been shut down, I doubt it will take very long to find the same boys working in other bars and/or a bunch of new faces suddenly appearing on Gay Romeo.

[Guest fountainhall]

I've only seen this title and variations of it around 50 times----AT LEAST.

Perhaps I could have been a bit more creative, but for the reasons expressed so many times by GB and shared, I trust, by all of us on this Board, I think this should be a 'between the eyes' headline.

[Guest]

That's one my peeves. If I had my way, any bar caught employing under-age boys would be immediately shut down - permanently.

 

I agree totally.

It only takes one person to walk around Sunnee short listing the offending bars. Then send the police around to raid these places. Any that are confirmed as offending should be shut down & the licensee jailed.

For that you would require efficient law enforcement though.

[Guest No2]

The foreign customers being tested for narcotics is disturbing in my opinion. Usually foreign patrons are free to leave during a raid.

 

It is disturbing for 2 reasons, one of the things which has always concerned me is the possibility of being set up, sample tampered with/deliberately false reading. The second thing would be as to how accurate the tests are for specific drugs, there are so many, especially older foreigners, who need meds which despite being prescribed and legal can contain chemical elements which could show up as problematic.

 

And don't bother with the "if you have not been taking drugs you have nothing to fear" replies. That is not what I am commenting on.

 

Does anybody know if the testing procedures in these circumstances are accurate?

 

This incident in itself would put me off entering a gogo with young eye-candy. Also your photo being splashed on the media circuit just for sitting in a bar enjoying a drink is worrying. I'm surprised there isn't more concern about this change in police policy towards foreigners from others here.

[Gaybutton]

Does anybody know if the testing procedures in these circumstances are accurate?

I don't know how accurate they are, but to date I have never heard anyone who had to submit to it saying the test was inaccurate and I have also never heard of anyone testing positive when in reality it was due to meds they were taking. That, of course, is not to say that it can't happen.

 

Once again, if all the bars were doing what they are supposed to be doing, nobody would have to worry. But until that day comes, it certainly is a legitimate concern.

 

"Balthasar is a good man. But until all men are like him, we must keep our swords bright."

- Hugh Griffith (Sheik Ilderim), 'Ben-Hur'

[Guest fountainhall]

The foreign customers being tested for narcotics is disturbing in my opinion. Usually foreign patrons are free to leave during a raid.

I recall a raid on Babylon in Bangkok some years ago. A farang friend was caught up in this and told me he and many others were taken somewhere for urine testing. He was then released when no drugs were found. He was not taking any medication, so I cannot say what would have happened had they found something relating to that medicine.

 

I have no idea how accurate the testing procedures are. But rounding up farang patrons is certainly not a new development.

[Guest]

Does anybody know if the testing procedures in these circumstances are accurate?

This incident in itself would put me off entering a gogo with young eye-candy. Also your photo being splashed on the media circuit just for sitting in a bar enjoying a drink is worrying.

 

Of course there's a POSSIBILITY of drugs tests being tampered with & your photo being plastered all over CNN.

However, as far as I know this isn't happening just yet. You would be quite unlucky to be the first person to get such treatment.

So until that happens, I would carry on enjoying yourself, although of course only going to the bars that employ adults.

We all die eventually anyway.

[Guest RichLB]

If this is the "true" story of what supposedly happened at Nice Boys, I'd sure like to be the lawyer representing the bar. There seem to be so many holes in the story. The article claims the bar [tpbofrd a short time room upstairs that rents for 1300 baht. Good grief, who would pay that much? You can stay at a first class hotel for that fee. Isn't the going rate about 300 to 500 for a short time room? The article then goes on to say 90 people were detained - 50 staff and 40 others. I've been to Nice Boys several times and I've never seen more than 10 customers there. What's this with 40. And 50 gogo boys? I think not - maybe 20 or 30 at most. And, the story says no drugs were discovered on the premesis, but the place is charged with selling them. And I coould go on with other things that do not make sense.

 

So, it seems that either the reporter has done a terrible job in relating the real events or some effort is being made to besmirch what I've always thought of as a fine and upstanding establishment.

[Guest fountainhall]

So, it seems that either the reporter has done a terrible job in relating the real events or some effort is being made to besmirch what I've always thought of as a fine and upstanding establishment.

Dare I suggest there is a certain Russian musician who shares your feelings!

[firecat69]

If this is the "true" story of what supposedly happened at Nice Boys, I'd sure like to be the lawyer representing the bar. There seem to be so many holes in the story. The article claims the bar [tpbofrd a short time room upstairs that rents for 1300 baht. Good grief, who would pay that much? You can stay at a first class hotel for that fee. Isn't the going rate about 300 to 500 for a short time room? The article then goes on to say 90 people were detained - 50 staff and 40 others. I've been to Nice Boys several times and I've never seen more than 10 customers there. What's this with 40. And 50 gogo boys? I think not - maybe 20 or 30 at most. And, the story says no drugs were discovered on the premesis, but the place is charged with selling them. And I coould go on with other things that do not make sense.

 

So, it seems that either the reporter has done a terrible job in relating the real events or some effort is being made to besmirch what I've always thought of as a fine and upstanding establishment.

RIch LB

 

You been around a little too long to believe what you are saying. A fine and upstanding establishment??? Please!!!!

 

I was there 3 weeks ago and they easily had 40 boys (40 or 50 who cares) I left at 930 and they had at least 20 customers at that time. I agree 40 sounds a little high but it was a weekend and late so maybe. I assume and I could be wrong that the 1300 was for the room, boy and off fee which is about what i would expect.

 

Now the chance of anyone using a room upstairs at any bar unless the boy is underage is very small.

 

Most bars in Pattaya have a 17 year old or two but 15 and under is crossing the line in my opinion. I hope they catch him , close his Bar and put him in jail. By the way you did fail to mention the 5, thats 5 underage boys. Lucky for him they didn't raid his other Bars where in some it would be unlikely to find anyone of legal age.

[Gaybutton]

If that 1300 baht figure is correct, my guess is that was what was asked for both the room rental and the 'tip' for the boy.

 

Regarding the attorney for the bar, I'd love to be the attorney too. The attorney will get a retainer for doing nothing. I have yet to see any of these bar raid cases ever make it as far as a courtroom.

 

Fountainhall points out that subjecting farang customers to urine testing is not new. Granted, but it certainly is rare. As far as I know, in the Pattaya gay bar scene it is virtually unheard of until now, although I do recall reading about it on rare occasions involving Walking Street bars.

 

At the time I'm posting this, it's just after 10:00pm in Thailand, so it might be a little early yet, but if anyone reading this was in Sunee Plaza this evening, please let us know if Nice Boys is shut down or open and if you heard any more about this incident.

 

You know you're in trouble when the most accurate reporting about these things ends up coming from HeyGay rather than the English language media. So, HeyGay, if you are reading this, what have you heard?

[MrBill]

It also gets beyond annoying when you consistently hear that the powers-that-be are working to rid Pattaya of the pedophiles, and yet even when caught most of these bars are allowed to remain open, are shut down for only a short period of time, are permitted to reopen under a different name, and the people responsible for letting under-age boys work in these places never seem to have to stand trial and be sent to prison. Instead, they pay a fine and are right back plying their trade usually within 24 hours.

I recently read an article, unfortunately I forgot in what publication, that posited (not about Pattaya or Thailand specifically) that the reason police and government entities have so much difficulty ridding their areas of things like prostitution, or in this case bars with underage boys, is that periodic raids and arrests reassure locals that the police are hard at work protecting the populace. Especially in difficult economic times where people might think that if there were no "crime to fight" that cutting the police force(or armies)and those in the government who oversee them is a viable option.

 

The author also argued that this is a major reason why countries are occupied with war so often - purely economics and posturing - prove that you are so crucial to the people that they could never think of getting rid of you. So, how better to show that you "are working to rid Pattaya of pedophiles..." than to catch a few every so often? Maybe a pessimistic point of view and I don't recall any facts in the article to back it up, but something to think about anyway,particularly hear in the USA where the defense budget continues to grow and grow in spite of the ever escalating debt.

[Gaybutton]

Especially in difficult economic times where people might think that if there were no "crime to fight" that cutting the police force(or armies)and those in the government who oversee them is a viable option.

In my opinion that just goes to show that any fool can sit down and write an article, even when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Guest shebavon]

In my opinion that just goes to show that any fool can sit down and write an article, even when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Mr Bill makes a very good point. Just look at Fox news and how they consistently create straw man stories to confuse American politics.

 

Thai politics is not all that different. US war on drugs, fags, liberals.. Thailand's war on Cambodia, drugs, red shirts.

[Gaybutton]

My latest information is Nice Boys was closed last night. There was no sign on the door to indicate when, or even if, it will open again. I was told many of the boys ended up working in the Tom Yom bar.

[Guest selenic]

There's an interesting post about police, raids and tea money in Pattaya Daily News Forum:

-All the comments made about exposing farang pedos, cancelling their passports etc if they were found in the go go bar that employed underage teenage boys is interesting. Interesting because the disgust seems to be only directed at management and the customers. There is a third party involved - always in such matters. In fact the guys who make these comments have no idea how the system operates here. The idea that the establishment was raided because of a tip-off is simply ridiculuous. Let's face facts. The cops in Pattaya have their finger on everything. If they want to they can find a murderer or rapist within days. The trouble is - there is no profit from pursuing ordinary criminals. The gay bar was raided because the cops were upset with the owner (no other reason), probably because he refused to pay extra tea money.

 

Last night I hosted a bbq for my wife's friend who is a secretary at a provincial cop shop. She wanted to show off her new boyfriend who is a Police Senior Sergeant Major in Bangkok. My wife is good friends with a number of cops and their families in Bangkok including a General and a Police Lieutenant Colonel. I have met these gentlemen and they live in modest homes and appear to be honest hard working individuals (at least on the surface). However the new boyfriend is in another category altogether. He is a member of the elite group that snoops on people's phone and email in the interest of "law and order and public decency". (Thailand is one of the most censored countries in the world). He targets "sex-parties", drug dealers, insults against the Royal Family, gambling, porn etc. He claimed to be one of the 10 most powerful cops in Thailand despite his rank.

 

Bragging I thought but after weighing up the facts - no. He arrived in a new luxury vehicle (according to the girlfriend he has three). After plying him with Heinies and blaa-muuk he supplied me with his website, personal email and telephone number. Checking the Internet this morning there he was in all his glory and correctly attired in his police uniform. The website is his moonlighting lurk. He and his colleagues have a private detective agency (a clear case of conflict of interest that would not be tolerated in a farang police force). He said that most of the Pattaya business owners know him by name (you can only guess why).

 

Why the discussion on the Sunee Plaza raid makes me laugh is because this guy also bragged about taking me to a place in central Pattaya, on his next visit, that is run by a Korean (name supplied) who is his personal friend (I wonder why). This is a closed establishment and farang are not normally admitted. He said that as a reward for my hospitality he will take me there and the owner will provide free beer and girls. The girls are Taiwanese and are between 14 and 15 years old. (Apart from the personal moral issues I would not be stupid enough to put myself in such a compromising situation). In addition he said that he will "fix" any problem I have in Thailand for 100,000 baht. Apparently this is only for one-off jobs and the price goes up from there.

 

The purpose of this post is not to make judgement on this guy or his business. This is Thailand and that is how it works here. It is simply to point out that the distinction between good and bad, pedo or non-pedo, good cop and bad cop etc. in this country is so blurred we cannot make the same judgements about what people do here using the same criteria we use in the West. This is a different country and has a unique culture, certain aspects of which would offend the majority of people in farang countries. No-one is going to change it overnight and many would argue not to change it at all. In short if you do not agree with the way the Thais take care of business stay at home. However if you do visit this country you need to be very cautious and above all broad-minded. Adopt a low profile. If you want to do business here you should expect to pay tea money. If you buy property you should expect that someone is trying to rip you off. When you read about establishments being raided because they employ under-age boys always look at the bigger picture.-

 

pattayadailynews.com • View topic - The Raid On The Gay Go Go Bar

 

worth a read, hope is allowed to link.

[KhorTose]

 

worth a read,

 

Definitely worth a read, and I thank you. I have a limited personal experience, and what I know about how the Thai police is really only hear-say. However, what I have heard is in compliance with what you have written. Presently Thailand--the home of the free--blocks over 50,000 web sites and they brag about it.

[Guest No2]

Yes Fountainhall, I am WELL aware that in OTHER circumstances foreigners have been subject to the pee testing,and 'rounding up' of farangs not a new development, there was a spell where you could easily get caught up in a 5 hour pee testing 'raid' at DJ station and the like if you picked an unlucky night to go, but of course I am not referring to that, what I am referring to is the apparent 'change in policy' of just letting the farangs leave if there is a bar raid, especially in Pattaya.

 

Yes and it is all very well to say, you dont THINK this or that is unlikely to happen, but just for the sake of a casual drink in a bar i really dont fancy my face photo being available on the media as per those shown in the bar raid photo, or having to go through the ordeal of being tested and having any contact whatsoever with Pattaya 'police'.

 

And Z909 you are wrong about faces not being splashed on the media, ok those caught up in the raid maybe did not appear on CNN, BUT they certainly DID appear in Pattaya local press and I assume therefore the photo being available to all in the press association as well as on the internet where we have been alerted to the incident, as we can clearly see, so the point being your photo CAN and in this circumstance IS being 'plastered' on a media of somekind for all the world to see.

 

And your advice to visit a venues with ONLY adults......well the chances of visiting a boy gogo or beerbar ANYWHERE in Pattaya with a guaranteed 100% 18 year old+ employees is VIRTUALLY NIL. I have visited Pattayaland sois 1/2/3, Daynight & Sunee over the years and there have been and still are under 18s in ALL of those places, to believe otherwise is niave at the very least.

 

And I also am a bit surprised at RichLBs posting, it is clear that as GB states the fee for the upstairs room includes the boy tip. Also i agree with Firecat,a couple of 16-17 year old dancing for a bit of eye candy is no big deal, there are underaged as I said previously in all the boy bars at one time or another, BUT, for me the presence of under 16s however is very irritating and beyond acceptable. But all said and done as GB states, in the past irrespective of who and how old the staff have been during a 'raid' farangs were always free to leave and not 'roped' into an incident, I just hope this particular situation regarding urine-testing foreigners is in fact a 'one off'.

[Guest fountainhall]

Yes Fountainhall, I am WELL aware that in OTHER circumstances foreigners have been subject to the pee testing,and 'rounding up' of farangs not a new development

Since you did not mention this in your first post, I can't understand why you are emphasising it now with capital letters. I do not think posters here are mind-readers, with respect.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

One question-What is blaa-muuk?

[Gaybutton]

One question-What is blaa-muuk?

There are various ways of spelling it in English, of course, but it's squid.

 

it is clear that as GB states the fee for the upstairs room includes the boy tip.

For the record, I didn't state that. I guessed that. What I said was, "If that 1300 baht figure is correct, my guess is that was what was asked for both the room rental and the 'tip' for the boy."

 

I have very rarely gone to Nice Boys at all. I think I've been in there a grand total of twice. I never offed a boy from Nice Boys. Until this incident came about I didn't even know they had short-time rooms, let alone how much they charged to take a boy to the short-time room.

 

In other words, I have no way of knowing what the 1300 baht fee was all about. All I can do is guess.

 

As for the rest of your post, I sympathize with your concerns. The problem is until certain bars clean up their act and stop hiring under-age boys, then yes, there is an element of risk that you could be caught up in a raid. The risk is minor, but it's there.

 

I doubt we'll ever see much of a change unless something drastic happens. What it boils down to is you either take the risk or you don't go to the bars. If you are convinced that every bar hires under-age boys, and by the way that's not true, then if you want to be certain to avoid the possibility of being caught up in a raid, then you can't go to the bars at all. I don't know what other alternative you have.

 

You won't get into legal trouble by simply being present in a go-go bar that employs under-age boys. It's the bar's problem, not yours. No one, even the police, expects you to check the IDs for all the boys working in a bar before setting foot in a bar. However, in Thailand the police do have the authority to raid bars, check farang for valid passports and visas, force farang to either submit to a urine test or face arrest, and permit the press to take photos and publish them. Since this incident is the first time I'm aware of the police forcing farang customers to submit to a urine test in the Pattaya gay bars, we won't know if this is a new trend until there have been more raids in which the same thing happens.

 

Of course, even then we may not know for some time. Even if the police start raiding bars regularly again, considering the number of bars that are empty lately, the police will be lucky to find any farang customers inside at all . . .

[Guest fountainhall]

There's an interesting post about police, raids and tea money in Pattaya Daily News Forum . . . This is Thailand and that is how it works here.

Thanks for posting the 'post'. Not only interesting, but clearly much closer to the truth than many farang wish to accept. In many respects, living in Thailand is like living in Japan. You can bow and be as outwardly pleasant as the Japanese, you can learn the language and become absorbed in the culture and sub-cultures. But it is a rare foreigner who will really know what goes on - and, as importantly, why.