How Little Can You Live On

[Guest RichLB]

I've recently run into a few fellow farang who are in real financial distress. I'm curious, if worse came to worse, how little money could you live on here and survive. I'm not asking how much you'd need to live well, quite the opposite. What is the minimum you'd need and how would you budget it?

[Guest fountainhall]

There was a thread on this started on 6 December 2009 by rentalb123. It was titled

 

Retire in Thailand? So what does it cost to retire in Pattaya?

 

Particularly interesting may be this post -

 

I spend about 45K baht a month plus about 2200 USD per year on international health insurance I bought thru TJ.

 

I don't mind living on the cheap.

 

I like eating Thai food and spending more money in the bars wouldn't make me happier.

 

If I had more money, I would enjoy travelling more.

He added in the next post that his rent was 9K per month.

[Guest tdperhs]

What is the minimum you'd need and how would you budget it?

I live in a small town in the Northeast.

If I give up beer, boys, and bar hopping, and do my own housekeeping, I could probably make it on 14,000 a month. Otherwise I need around 75,000 (20,000 just to feed the housekeeper).

 

Monthly

Rent 4500

Utilities 2500 Gas, water, electricity.

Food 4000 Eating in.

Transport 500 Gasoline

Medical etc. 1000 Mostly for my dog.

Incidentals 2000 Internet, phone cards, etc.

 

Annually: Immigration, vehicle expenses, etc.

6000 500/month

[Guest]

Thai annual gdp per capita is around $4000 per head.

 

As that's an average, it follows that many Thais would be living on less than $4000 per head.

 

These living costs may be difficult to achieve around Bangkok, or without the benefit of sharing a home with other earners. The living standard must be really low too.

[Gaybutton]

Thai annual gdp per capita is around $4000 per head.

A great many of these people already have homes that have been in their families for many years. Not exactly luxury accommodations, but they have a place to live. As for food, many grow much of their own, raise poultry, etc. There are all kinds of things native Thais can do that would be difficult or simply not available to farang trying to live in Thailand under similar circumstances.

 

Also, there is one more little caveat. In order for a farang to be able to get a retirement visa he has to have a minimum monthly income. I forgot how much, but I think it's in the neighborhood of 70,000 baht per month.

 

It is possible to simply lie about it, at least to the USA embassy, but if it is ever checked, now you have a problem. If you become indigent, you can't go to the embassy about it. You swore under oath as to what your income level is. Go to the embassy and they find out you lied under oath, welcome to perjury charges.

[Guest fountainhall]

I've recently run into a few fellow farang who are in real financial distress.

I am assuming these guys rent rooms and do not own their own apartments. If they own, selling the apartment would release a lot of cash. Assuming they still have the relevant documentation when they purchased, they can send at least the basic purchase price back overseas. They could then rent a cheap room somewhere and have the amount sent overseas remitted back to provide the required monthly payments to satisfy their visa requirements. But given the required amount of monthly remittances, I cannot imagine the overseas money would last more than a few years.

[Guest tdperhs]

Also, there is one more little caveat. In order for a farang to be able to get a retirement visa he has to have a minimum monthly income. I forgot how much, but I think it's in the neighborhood of 70,000 baht per month.

 

We have a mutual acquaintance who, as we both know, does not have an income half that much yet seems to be doing fairly well. If he were to get caught by the embassy in a lie and it wished to take action against him, I feel that, lacking a prosecutorial system, the best they could do is ship him home and nothing more would be done about it. So, the worst that could happen is that he would be denied residency in Thailand, which is what would have happened if he told the truth about his finances in the first place.

 

If you want to see destitute farangs, take a slow drive to the vehicle impound yard and look at the hovels you will pass along the way.

[Gaybutton]

We have a mutual acquaintance who, as we both know, does not have an income half that much yet seems to be doing fairly well. If he were to get caught by the embassy in a lie and it wished to take action against him, I feel that, lacking a prosecutorial system, the best they could do is ship him home and nothing more would be done about it.

I'm not so sure they would ship him home at embassy expense and I'm not so sure there would be no perjury charges once he got there. I do know who you mean, but I don't want to gossip about one particular person. But whether it's that person or someone else, I don't think I would want to live with the stress of that kind of uncertainty.

 

Under those circumstances, a person is living here never knowing from day to day if this is the day he'll somehow be caught. Under those circumstances a person has to flat out lie to both the embassy and Immigration annually. Under those circumstances he has to be concerned that the day will come when the embassy changes its policy and starts requiring substantiation before they'll issue the proof-of-income statement. Under those circumstances a person is unable to do little more than merely survive, but can't have much of a life, at least the kind of life that attracts most farang to Thailand. Under those circumstances a person may feel that you might very well be correct in your opinion about what would actually happen if he is ever caught, but he has no way of knowing what the outcome would be.

 

If a person chooses to live that way, that's his decision, but I doubt that very many farang would really want to live like that.

 

Another thing the embassy might do is simply confiscate his passport and leave him on his own. I actually witnessed something like that. A couple years ago I was at the USA embassy obtaining my proof-of-income statement. While I was there I heard an argument break out between a man and an embassy representative. Apparently he too was there trying to get a proof-of-income statement. When you do that, you have to hand over your passport and wait for them to call you to the service window to get the statement. When they called this man over, I could overhear the embassy official tell him a check of his records showed he is a deadbeat father who had not been paying child support. They refused not only to give him the proof-of-income statement, but they also informed him they were confiscating his passport until he could show proof that he is current on his child support payments. The man threw a fit, but the embassy wouldn't budge. So, now there he was, without a passport and apparently without the kind of money it would take to pay up on the child support. Your guess is as good as mine as to what ended up becoming of him.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

If a person were to get caught not having the income that he says he has, I am sure the embassy would not just let it go at that. When you get that statement you swear that the information is correct. If it proves to be otherwise, that is perjury, a prosecutable offense.

[Gaybutton]

If it proves to be otherwise, that is perjury, a prosecutable offense.

Also, I don't think any of us really know what the Thai authorities would do. It's entirely possible the embassy could be the least of the problems. One thing is certain: When it comes to immigration issues, Thailand doesn't play games.

[Bob]

When it comes to immigration issues, Thailand doesn't play games.

 

I was somewhat surprised to find a retirement visa scam going on in Hua Hin (and my guess it occurs elsewhere as well). What happens is you find the local fixer who will "loan" the 800k baht to you for a week or two and, for that, you pay him/her a fee. He/she takes you to immigration where the fixer shares part of the fee with the immigration officer, you get your one-year visa, and then the fixer gets the 800k back from your bank account.

 

The old guy who was financially strapped got this done this way to the surprise of some of the falang neighbors. As to how they would handle the alleged requirement that you're required to have the 800k in the bank for 90 days prior to a renewal is a mystery to me (but, if a given immigration officer is in on the scam, then I'd guess that nothing is really required if the price is right). In the case I mentioned, it was the old guy's first retirement visa so there was no 90-day time period required.

[Gaybutton]

I was somewhat surprised to find a retirement visa scam going on in Hua Hin

Wow! If that immigration officer ever gets caught pulling a stunt like that, he's not just up Shit Creek without a paddle. He won't even have the boat.

 

It seems like a risky scam to me. What's to stop someone from getting the fixer to put the 800,000 into his account and then skipping out with it?

 

I wonder how much the fixer charges for this "service."

[Guest lvdkeyes]

One thing is certain: When it comes to immigration issues, Thailand doesn't play games.

I know of a situation where a guy didn't have his 90 day visa to qualify to get his retirement visa. An immigration officer told him he could get it for him without having to leave Thailand for 17,000 baht. He got it and then got his retirement visa. So Thailand does play games in regards to immigration for the right price, as with everything in Thailand.

[Gaybutton]

So Thailand does play games in regards to immigration for the right price, as with everything in Thailand.

Yes, when you're dealing with a corrupt official there's no denying that you're right. What should have taken place was, assuming the man was in Thailand legally even if it was the 30-day privilege and also assuming he had the necessary paperwork, a 1900 baht fee to convert to the 90-day visa and a second 1900 baht fee to convert the 90-day visa to the retirement visa.

 

That's how it is supposed to work and I have personally witnessed it being done that way by that retirement visa officer who has been with the Pattaya immigration office since forever. I don't think that particular official is corrupt in any way.

 

So, what should have cost the man a total of 3800 baht ended up costing him 17,000. He got scammed.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Yes, scammed by an immigration officer.

[Guest RichLB]

It might not be wise to discuss ways to circumvent the law on a message board like this. To change the subject a little, I have a hypothetical question. What happens to a foreigner who is compltely broke, has no family back home, and has already pawned everything he owned? Is there any support system in place either from the Thai government or various embassies?

[Gaybutton]

Is there any support system in place either from the Thai government or various embassies?

Yes, there is a place at which he can be given a free room and free food if it is discovered he is living in Thailand under false pretenses - jail.

 

Why would Thailand or an embassy provide any kind of support system for a farang who is broke and has no place to go? I suppose he could always try going to a Wat and becoming a monk. Failing that, if he has no money and no way to obtain any money, he would have little choice other than going to his embassy, explaining his situation, and hoping for some sort of favorable outcome.

 

As far as I know, the embassies are not responsible for extending what would amount to welfare for someone who is living in a foreign country and then finds himself broke. I know of no such obligation. And certainly Thailand has no obligation to provide financial assistance. Also, if it turns out that he is living in Thailand under false pretenses such as lying about his income, which may explain why he is broke in the first place, then going to Thai authorities or the embassy could easily result in making his situation even worse.

 

The only practical solution I can see for someone in such a situation would be, while his passport and visa are still valid, to try to get a job that could provide him with a work permit and sufficient income to legally remain in Thailand.

 

Failing that, then as far as I can tell:

 

"The days of our kind are number-ed."

- Nicol Williamson (Merlin), 'Excalibur'

[Guest fountainhall]

Yes, there is a place at which he can be given a free room and free food if it is discovered he is living in Thailand under false pretenses - jail.

I always understood that the food part is not 'on the house', and that family and friends had to bring it in.

[pong]

back to the original question: about 300 bt/day. yes, that about 50% more as the minimum wage for working Thai.

1.no own house-rent room-by the day from 120/140 bt. Water, electric included, no AC but fan, with some luck there may even by free WiFi (you have your own laptop from whealthier times). While some of these rooms are very bad, some good ones, for this money, can also be found. When you stay long-time, rent better rooms (student areas) for/from 2000bt/month-that nearly halves the amount.

2.eat Thai food or supermarket breads etc (brekkie-if you cannot fancy rice then), buy a watercooker, or some of the guesthouses even offer hot water to make those noodles, 3in1 coffee etc.), 120-150 bt/day. Beer from the shop-33 bt/bottle.

3.miscellaneous-you have to do yourself (but you have plenty of time anyway)-a load of washing is 20 bt, drinking water-refills for 1 bt, free red buses to go somewhere, provided you know your way around. Tesco and Carrefour discount a lot of perishable foodstuf from 17 or 18.00 for 50%. They all have fairly good foodcourts with meals from 25 bt/plate. 2nd hand clothes-like shirts for 3/100 at about any local market. Cheap webshops-from 8 bt/hour (discounted furhter from 10 recently). Everywhere is free TV to watch.

Do it like the Japanese backpackers around Khao sarn/Banglamphu and come to <200bt/day:

1.sleep dorm-thats 80 or 100 bt/night. Most of these dorms take JPNese, or Asians only, in fact.

2.eat prepacked bamee/noodles-thats 5/6 bt/pack.

(they still splurge out on ''massage-ladies'' for 500 bt-room included).

Thats BKk-big city, of course, and thus also negates the common misunderstanding that big cities are more expensive.

(Some claim Isan may be cheaper-but then there youre bored as hell and have to spend big money to get somewhere all the time).

And to even surprise you a little more: a fair lot of people live like that in BKK's backpacker-ghetto's/areas. So please-all those comments that that too down or not possible-that only means it is not possible for you.

[Guest luvthai]

I am not one to drink alot or off from the bars alot so I have figured I could live ok on about $2000 (US) a month.

MY big expense is that i do not eat Thai food so cooking at home is a must. I am diabetic and must watch what I eat.

As for the sex life I have several regulars that I see and once in awhile will find someone new. I am happy walking the beach or spending the day at Pattaya Park. Strolling the malls keeps me occupied as well as bowling a couple times a week and maybe a movie once a week. I enjoy dvd's at home as well.

A trip to Chaing Mai now and then and a weekend in bkk is a treat.

No bf's so no motorbike payments or mama problems. I do treat my regulars well and they all say i have a good heart.

[Gaybutton]

I always understood that the food part is not 'on the house', and that family and friends had to bring it in.

No, that's not true. They do provide food, but all the jails have a canteen store at which people can purchase additional food and various items for the prisoners. It will be delivered to them. Prisoners can only receive items purchased from the canteen store and, of course, the package is thoroughly inspected before the prisoner ever sees it.

[Guest fountainhall]

Prisoners can only receive items purchased from the canteen store and, of course, the package is thoroughly inspected before the prisoner ever sees it.

Seems you have quiet a bit of experience of this

[Gaybutton]

Seems you have quiet a bit of experience of this

Not a lot of experience, but yes, I do have experience and I know what I'm talking about. Without going into detail, I have visited prisoners on four separate occasions in four separate facilities.

[Guest beachlover]

It's easy (but not desirable) to get accommodation/food/living expenses down to a small budget. But, especially for older people, the issue is whether you have reserves available to you when unexpected costly situations arise. Like medical problems. Or a sick/dying family member you need to visit. Or even the need to escape civil unrest... You're always better off with more money, or having a good wack of it for a 'rainy day'.

[Guest Astrrro]

It's easy (but not desirable) to get accommodation/food/living expenses down to a small budget. But, especially for older people, the issue is whether you have reserves available to you when unexpected costly situations arise. Like medical problems. Or a sick/dying family member you need to visit. Or even the need to escape civil unrest... You're always better off with more money, or having a good wack of it for a 'rainy day'.

 

I concur 100%. An emergency fund is crucial. Other than that living can be quite inexpensive.