macaroni21 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 My reading of the situation is similar to @vinapu's. There is a minority of Chinese tourists - as often heterosexual couples or all-girl groups, as gay men - who throw money around ostentatiously. My reading is that they are part of the new nouveau-riche class in their society. They are first generation of Chinese to have wealth, and there's an urge to show off. They will not admit it, but the thinking goes like this: what's the point of being rich unless I can show everyone else that I am rich? Less obvious to us, because they don't make a spectacle of themselves, are the gay Chinese tourists who have scrimped and saved to travel abroad. They are more numerous but far more low-key. These are the ones @vinapu may be referring to as the customers of the massage parlours in Silom Soi 6. They focus their spending on the sex services (thus, gay) rather than the showy bars, whereas those who need to show off splurge in highly visible ways in the bars but don't much buy sex. The latter is an activity behind closed doors, so not easy to let others see and envy. 3 hours ago, vinapu said: But if Chinese are driving prices up indeed they we need to adapt or find cheaper providers, just like everywhere else I'm not sure that is happening. I think it is the Western tourist that is driving up prices in the Silom-Surawong area, and the rich local Thais in places like Jey Spa or Aurora. Meanwhile there's a price war breaking out among the Saphan Khwai shops. You should see the number of special discounts and promotions being offered on their Line advertising. First, the shops discount the prices of the rooms, but lately, I noticed a few boys discounting their expected tips. GooGuy started off advertising boys expecting 3,000 to 4,000 baht in tips. Lately those boys have disappeared, and now the current crop expect tips in the range of 1,500 baht for one hour. jamiebee and floridarob 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridarob Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 1 hour ago, macaroni21 said: Less obvious to us, because they don't make a spectacle of themselves, are the gay Chinese tourists who have scrimped and saved to travel abroad. The guy that owns circus now told me when he only owned the massage place off Convent Rd, that these types of Chinese are the ones throwing money, because it's their one trip in a lifetime and they want to enjoy it without worrying about prices....your story makes more sense, but what in the world makes sense anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridarob Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 7 hours ago, davide3311 said: They are getting huge tips that are simply way over priced for what they should be. Same thing happens in Brasil, Americans tipping like crazy, annoying the local clients, who outnumber the western clients. vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason1975 Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 5 hours ago, vinapu said: Massage boys in soi 6 where shops don't have minimum tip policy would tell you that often Chinese leave next to nothing . I believe if shops in soi 6 specify tip upfront at counter before massage, the customers from China will gladly pay the tip. There is no tipping culture in China and first timers or even casual tourists from China who have visited Thailand a few times do not understand that the massage guys do not get paid much from shopowner but rely on tips. vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason1975 Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 2 hours ago, macaroni21 said: Less obvious to us, because they don't make a spectacle of themselves, are the gay Chinese tourists who have scrimped and saved to travel abroad. They are more numerous but far more low-key. These are the ones @vinapu may be referring to as the customers of the massage parlours in Silom Soi 6. They focus their spending on the sex services (thus, gay) rather than the showy bars, whereas those who need to show off splurge in highly visible ways in the bars but don't much buy sex. The latter is an activity behind closed doors, so not easy to let others see and envy. That's me! My race is Chinese but I am from Singapore, not China. I do splurge occasionally on a garland at the bars. jamiebee, Ruthrieston and vinapu 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni21 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 3 hours ago, jason1975 said: There is no tipping culture in China and first timers or even casual tourists from China who have visited Thailand a few times do not understand that the massage guys do not get paid much from shopowner but rely on tips. Good point. Likewise, no tipping in Japan or Korea. The massage shops in Japan and Korea quote all-inclusive rates. No extra compensation expected. jamiebee, vinapu and floridarob 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZenLyfe Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 3 hours ago, jason1975 said: That's me! My race is Chinese but I am from Singapore, not China. I do splurge occasionally on a garland at the bars. +1 same same, this is my first long vacation in 5 years. (started in Japan (1 month), then Vietnam (1 month), next up is Thailand! vinapu, jamiebee and Ruthrieston 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithambrose Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 37 minutes ago, macaroni21 said: Good point. Likewise, no tipping in Japan or Korea. The massage shops in Japan and Korea quote all-inclusive rates. No extra compensation expected. Japan is great in that respect. When I first went there, many years ago, the bellman had a long trip to my room with my suitcase. When case delivered, I proffered a tip which he waved away, almost angrily! What a pleasant contrast to the USA , where minimum expected tip seems to have reached 20%! I find it annoying that tips are now expected even in takeaway coffee shops! vinapu, floridarob and jamiebee 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macaroni21 Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 4 hours ago, Keithambrose said: When I first went there, many years ago, the bellman had a long trip to my room with my suitcase. When case delivered, I proffered a tip which he waved away, almost angrily! I had a similar experience in Beijing. I had an extra suitcase heavy with product manuals. No anger, but the bellboy, gently and in clear enough English, said "no, thank you, sir. This is my job. I do it with pride. This is my satisfaction." I think management taught all employees to say that. It made me feel like I would be demeaning him to insist on giving a tip. And like @Keithambrose said, I thought it was beyond absurd when I saw the payment screen of a take-out doughnut shop in New York state give me the option of 15, 20 or 25% tip. I had to look high and low around the screen to find the tiny "no tip" option. jamiebee and vinapu 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithambrose Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 37 minutes ago, macaroni21 said: I had a similar experience in Beijing. I had an extra suitcase heavy with product manuals. No anger, but the bellboy, gently and in clear enough English, said "no, thank you, sir. This is my job. I do it with pride. This is my satisfaction." I think management taught all employees to say that. It made me feel like I would be demeaning him to insist on giving a tip. And like @Keithambrose said, I thought it was beyond absurd when I saw the payment screen of a take-out doughnut shop in New York state give me the option of 15, 20 or 25% tip. I had to look high and low around the screen to find the tiny "no tip" option. I have no issues leaving a cash tip at the Red Flame Diner, W44th, where I have breakfast. Great old fashioned diner, good quick food, pretty cheap, served by harassed Hispanic waitresses! Mind you I worked out, by looking at turnover etc, that they must make $40 to 50 an hour, so not bad. At the.other end of W44th, near 5th, is a Peruvian/Japanese fusion restaurant. Pre Covid, they proudly announced, 'no tipping, we pay a proper wage'. And, Indeed, no tip expected. A gem. Good food too. Of course it didn't last. When I last went, prices had gone up, and my enquiry as to a no tipping policy was met with bafflement/amusement! vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reader Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 Unlike some other countries, wait staff in the US receive a very low base wage, determined state by state. This list from the Department of Labor may surprise many. Removes any doubt as to why Starbucks staff is voting to unionize in an increasing number of locations. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped floridarob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 11 hours ago, floridarob said: The guy that owns circus now told me when he only owned the massage place off Convent Rd, Fan Club? floridarob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 11 hours ago, floridarob said: that these types of Chinese are the ones throwing money, because it's their one trip in a lifetime and they want to enjoy it without worrying about prices that's in line with my Mom's teachings, she always told us 'if you don't have money for vacations , stay home , save and than go to have fun" jamiebee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 10 hours ago, jason1975 said: That's me! My race is Chinese but I am from Singapore, not China. I do splurge occasionally on a garland at the bars. better give boy 1000 tip making sure all will see. I was told that out of 1000 we pay for garland , boy gets only 700 so bar cashes 300 for pain of stapling together 10 red notes. Alternative is to make garland yourself, I know one member who did it pre-covid just to annoy mamasans at Moonlight floridarob, splinter1949, jamiebee and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 7 hours ago, JZenLyfe said: +1 same same, this is my first long vacation in 5 years. (started in Japan (1 month), then Vietnam (1 month), next up is Thailand! have fun and make sure you treat boys well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 52 minutes ago, reader said: Unlike some other countries, wait staff in the US receive a very low base wage, determined state by state. Americans know it and perhaps fine with it as many of them and their children worked in such jobs. But foreigners are not to be expected to understand that rationale and entitled to be amazed and annoyed by those 15-25% tip requests even if, at end of day , US price with tip may still be cheaper than what they would pay in their own country. When comes to Thailand , with off fee of 1000 baht in Moonlight (models only) and BBB in Pattaya I'm not surprised that some arrivals from non tipping countries may think it's all in. Some may even abuse situation by playing stupid, it's why those things should be explained well by mamasans or whoever is collecting off fee. Many times I heard phrase " 500 is for the bar, you need to pay boy separately" . floridarob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithambrose Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 54 minutes ago, reader said: Unlike some other countries, wait staff in the US receive a very low base wage, determined state by state. This list from the Department of Labor may surprise many. Removes any doubt as to why Starbucks staff is voting to unionize in an increasing number of locations. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped Thanks for that. The details are labyrinthine and complex. It seems to say that an employer only needs to pay a food service employee 2 thirds of the minimum wage of $15.00ph, which incidentally is higher than UK, but also says that an employer can make no deduction! I'm sure this is explained somewhere, but I haven't the energy! So, food service employees get a minimum of $10.00ph, plus tips. OK, $10.00 Is not a lot, but they must make way over $5.00ph in tips. I assume that a sensible system, like paying a proper wage, or adding a service charge to the bill, as in the UK, usually 12.5%, would be considered un-american. In France a tip is not usually expected, but the employees are paid properly. Same in Germany. faceStuttgart 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reader Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 I’d much prefer to pay service fee to wait staff than paying tip. 12.5 to 15% certainly reasonable. In Bangkok, if the restaurant doesn’t add 10% service fee, I tip at that same rate. Same with massage shops. Would much prefer to see posted minimum tips. vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason1975 Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 27 minutes ago, vinapu said: better give boy 1000 tip making sure all will see. I was told that out of 1000 we pay for garland , boy gets only 700 so bar cashes 300 for pain of stapling together 10 red notes. But the guy feels good on stage when he has garland! Anyway, it's always been a spontaneous decision for me. Sometimes I just felt like giving. vinapu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason1975 Posted June 29 Author Share Posted June 29 2 minutes ago, reader said: Same with massage shops. Would much prefer to see posted minimum tips. Me too! If the shop has posted minimum tip, the guys who work there will not ask for 2000 baht tip in middle of massage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 23 minutes ago, jason1975 said: But the guy feels good on stage when he has garland! Anyway, it's always been a spontaneous decision for me. Sometimes I just felt like giving. he feels even better when you motion him from the stage to come and have drink and possible off with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floridarob Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 1 hour ago, vinapu said: Fan Club? Yes, I bought a book of 10 massages there and never used them all before he closed. When I mentioned that to him at Circus, that I had a couple of coupons left, he laughed. I was expecting him to say, bring them here, Ill give you something of value here in exchange for those prepaid coupons I took your money for.....but no, nothing 🙄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 I still remember Fan Club fondly. I had semi regular there , Man was his nick. What a man ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinapu Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 14 minutes ago, floridarob said: Yes, I bought a book of 10 massages there and never used them all before he closed. When I mentioned that to him at Circus, that I had a couple of coupons left, he laughed. I was expecting him to say, bring them here, Ill give you something of value here in exchange for those prepaid coupons I took your money for.....but no, nothing 🙄 I remember rumors circulating that they were driven out of business by owner of that French restaurant ( Indigo?) on the corner with some dirty tricks involving police harassment. floridarob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggobkk Posted June 29 Share Posted June 29 15 hours ago, macaroni21 said: Good point. Likewise, no tipping in Japan or Korea. The massage shops in Japan and Korea quote all-inclusive rates. No extra compensation expected. This answered a question I was about to ask as I'll be spending a week in Japan after leaving Thailand and am planning on trying three of the agencies and had een wondering about the tippling policy or lack of one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
