Tip or no tip

[Guest FanOfThailand]

To tip or not to tip.

That is the question.

Tis be nobler in the minds of men

[Gaybutton]

When a boy is taken off from a bar or when he's coming over for sex, he's working and expects remuneration for his work. But the circumstance you describe, in my opinion, is something entirely different. You've invited him to join you for activities that in no way involve his work. I would explain beforehand that you are not inviting him for sex, but are inviting him to join you because you like him and enjoy his company and this is not a 'short time' type of thing. That way there will be no misunderstanding. I would pay for everything and make sure he has money for taxi fare and food later, but other than that I see no reason to tip unless you wish to. I think tipping under those circumstances would be more a gesture of kindness than something obligatory.

 

Many of these boys are quite happy to do these kinds of things. Most have little or no money. Ask them what they do all day. Most of the time you'll hear that they stay in their rooms and either watch TV, if they even have one, or sleep until it's time to get ready to go to work. On most days, that's it. That's all they do because they don't have the means to do anything else. All the activities the average farang holiday maker enjoys in Pattaya are rarities for most of the bar boys. You're talking about a lot of boys who are barely able to scrape together money to eat, pay their rent, and send some money home to mama each month.

 

So, if you're taking him to lunch and a movie, a tip should neither be expected or necessary, as long as you made your intentions clear at the time you invited him. If it's a one time thing, I would give him a few hundred baht along with it, again as a gesture of kindness, not out of obligation. However, if it's a boy you're going to invite relatively often I wouldn't always give him money and when I do, I would vary the amounts. Otherwise he will come to expect it and there will be bitterness if he doesn't get it.

 

Also, rather than giving him money all the time, you could also take him shopping, set a spending limit before you enter the store (I do that by giving him whatever I am willing to give him when we enter the store and make sure he understands that's his limit. Whatever he doesn't spend is his to keep), and let him buy clothes, cosmetics, or whatever else he needs. That is also greatly appreciated.

[Guest]

You definitely need to make your intentions clear to him in this case.

 

I'm not sure if you are going to watch a film in English or Thai. Going to the cinema with an older man to watch a film in a foreign language may be something he would like, or perhaps not.

I would want paying to do that, but maybe he might see it differently.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Seeing a foreign movie for Thais here is not a problem as they are all shown with Thai subtitles. I don't think a tip is required. When inviting him I would say something like, "Do you want to go see a movie with me as a friend?" He would understand that he would not be paid a tip and it would avoid a conversation about money.

[Guest]

Unless you tell him in advance you are not tipping, you should tip. Don't just say I want you to go as friends. Don't just say I want to treat you to a movie. Be specific. Tell him, "I am going to the movie. I would love for you to come. But, I am not giving any tips for today. Do you want to go?"

[Guest RichLB]

Let me underline the need to make it clear beforehand that no tip is involved. Many of the guys view their "job" as renting their time (with sliding expectations of reward depending on how that tme is spent) Given that, you might want to make sure he understands you are just going out as a friend and not a customer.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Given that, you might want to make sure he understands you are just going out as a friend and not a customer.

That's why I said to tell him you are inviting him as a friend.

[Bob]

Whatever you do, don't involve miscommunication which might end up with embarrassment for him and/or you. I wouldn't recommend any word play - I'm not sure how many of them would take the words "friend" or "customer." Presuming you don't think a tip is called for, just ask him that up front. If he tells you he expects a tip, then make your choice there; if not, enjoy your movie, lunch, or whatever.

[Guest FanOfThailand]

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.

 

Communication seems to be the key.

 

I would also try as best I could to communicate that if the boy said no to my offer of a movie that I would not be upset or think badly of him for not wanting to go.

 

Thanks again for the advice.

[Guest RichLB]

I would also try as best I could to communicate that if the boy said no to my offer of a movie that I would not be upset or think badly of him for not wanting to go.

That's a good idea because many Thai guys (not all) really don't like going to movies as they find the theaters like going to the arctic and have difficulty reading the subtitles.

 

Also, I assume you know, eating in a farang oriented restaurant is seldom a treat to the guys. Even if the restaurant serves Thai food, many if not most, Thai guys find the food usually unpalatable and too bland to enjoy. I count it as a real victory if I can convince my Thai boyfriend to go out for dinner with me. I've figured out the problem is he doesn't know what the farang dishes are (he ALWAYS just orders spaghetti) and even with pictures the menu is undecipherable to him. And, if other farang dine with us, the English conversation flies by too fast for him to understand. Also, my friends and I tend to dawdle when we go out to eat and that leave my bf to feel trapped at a table with no one to talk to.

 

So, relating back to tipping or not tipping, these factors may influence your decision.

[Gaybutton]

And, if other farang dine with us, the English conversation flies by too fast for him to understand. Also, my friends and I tend to dawdle when we go out to eat and that leave my bf to feel trapped at a table with no one to talk to.

One solution to that, especially if there is no intent for sex to be involved, would be to tell the boy he can bring a friend. I've done that several times and it is always appreciated.

 

One of the things I sometimes do is take a boy I like, along with a friend, to that gigantic swimming pool at Pattaya Park. Even the ones who dislike going to the beach always seem to love going to Pattaya Park. I always let them bring a friend, sometimes two or three. They all have a great time, it isn't that much more expensive (admission is 100 baht per person), and it gives me more bods to ogle. When we're done I take them all back to their room. I never ask the boy I like to come with me for sex afterward. That way he knows I did it as a friend and that is greatly appreciated. No money is expected or asked for or even hinted.

 

Of course, if any of those boys offer to come with me to my place, I wouldn't insult them by saying no . . .

[ChristianPFC]

Why not ask him where he would like to go for dinner? I cannot pretend to come to Thailand for the Thai food, but I have Farang food all the year at home. Of course, this argumentation does not apply to expats who have Thai food all the year round and want Farang food for a change. As far as I remember, I always got a suggestion from my Thai friends, never an "up to you".

[Guest]

Going to the cinema has never been my idea of socialising. Whilst at the cinema, you need to keep quiet. Clearly your intention is not to sit in the back row cuddling him. So you get to socialise before and after the main event only.

 

Why not just go to the cinema alone & take him for a meal before or after your next paid date?

[NB: I am very much single, so taking my advice isn't always the way forward]

[Guest]

Going to the cinema has never been my idea of socialising. Whilst at the cinema, you need to keep quiet. Clearly your intention is not to sit in the back row cuddling him.

 

Clearly you have not sat in the VIP loveseats for 2. They give you a blanket to put on top of the guys head as he is giving you a BJ. Movies can be very socializing.

[Guest]

Clearly you have not sat in the VIP loveseats for 2. They give you a blanket to put on top of the guys head as he is giving you a BJ. Movies can be very socializing.

 

Let's overlook the acronym again.

 

I have no doubt that goes on in the cinema. However, a money boy might expect payment for such behaviour. The original post suggested no tip was to be paid, so no BJ, right?

[Gaybutton]

The original post suggested no tip was to be paid, so no BJ, right?

If there has been an understanding that this outing is not for sex and tipping purposes, maybe that is one circumstance in which it's the farang who gets to say, "Up to you" . . .

[Jason1988]

You can debate whether to tip or not to tip for an eternity. Since these young men are doing you a favor by spending time with you, you should feel honored to give them something. Remember a small sum of money such as a tip doesn't affect your lifestyle in the least. But, 500 Baht (or more) to him for an afternoon would make it tolerable to sit in a cold theatre, watching a movie or dining in a restaurant when he may prefer a something more to his liking. It is a nice gesture to offer to buy him a gift or take him shopping, what he really needs is money. He can't eat a shirt or pair of jeans. These guys are just surviving and if you don't want to tip them you should be ashamed of yourselves.

[Guest RichLB]

He can't eat a shirt or pair of jeans. These guys are just surviving and if you don't want to tip them you should be ashamed of yourselves.

That's a little harsh, don't you think? The notion that these guys are desperately scraping by and grovelling for a morsel to eat does not reflect my experience. Few, if any, are as well healed as most farang, but fewer still are so impoverished they will suffer indignities for a few baht. To me, this is the issue faced by the original poster. He sought come company from a guy he liked socially, but did not want to debase that experience by converting it to a "business" transaction. Nor did he wish to have his new friend see him as exploiting his time. I see that as an interesting and common quandry.

[Gaybutton]

These guys are just surviving and if you don't want to tip them you should be ashamed of yourselves.

I agree with RichLB and strangely enough I don't feel the least bit ashamed. And what's wrong with debating about it for an eternity?

 

How about that? I invited the boy to spend the afternoon doing something besides staying in his room and sleeping, which is how most of them spend their day. I took him to a restaurant of his choosing. I gave him money to buy whatever he wants or save it for food because he's starving and I'm just an insensitive son-of-a-bitch who doesn't see or understand his problems and definitely couldn't care less about them. And I also dragged him kicking and screaming to a movie that he hated in a theater where he nearly froze to death. And I didn't even give him a tip for having caused his terrible suffering. How terrible of me.

[Guest]

I took him to a restaurant of his choosing. I gave him money to buy whatever he wants or save it for food because he's starving and I'm just an insensitive son-of-a-bitch who doesn't see or understand his problems and definitely couldn't care less about them. And I also dragged him kicking and screaming to a movie that he hated in a theater where he nearly froze to death. And I didn't even give him a tip for having caused his terrible suffering. How terrible of me.

 

As rent boys try to make their clients happy, there's a very fine line between taking your guy to a restaurants & films that he hates & him having a good time. He might just pretend he's having a good time because of the 1000 baht tip that's expected at the end.

 

What one person likes, another may not. For example, if I were to be offered the "treat" of a visit to see a randomly selected film knocked out by Hollywood, followed by a visit to a steakhouse, I would not be going.

 

Equally, if some of you were offered a 15 mile mountain walk, followed by a curry, several real ales & an evening camping, you might want to say no (that's YOU collectively -meaning SOME of the members, rather than GB).

[Guest fountainhall]

Unless you tell him in advance you are not tipping, you should tip.

On balance I'm with GT and others suggesting tips should be offered - unless it has been made perfectly clear at the outset that there will be no tip.

 

And I didn't even give him a tip for having caused his terrible suffering. How terrible of me.

But in your 'narrative', you 'did' give him money to buy whatever he wants. In my book that IS giving him a tip. Taking a boy as your companion to a meal in a restaurant of your choosing and then a movie of your choosing means he is basically an escort for that period. As such, he should be tipped in the same way you would pay someone from a professional escort service, although the amount could be considerably smaller.

[Gaybutton]

But in your 'narrative', you 'did' give him money to buy whatever he wants. In my book that IS giving him a tip.

I suppose you could look at it that way, but I see "tips" as money given to a boy when you are with him for sexual purposes and he's expecting money for what he does. I don't view an afternoon outing with no sex involved as the same thing. I view it simply as being kind and generous with the boy when giving money to him is not necessarily an obligation.

[Guest fountainhall]

I don't view an afternoon outing with no sex involved as the same thing. I view it simply as being kind and generous with the boy when giving money to him is not necessarily an obligation.

As I understand it, this is virtually the same as calling an escort service and asking for a nice companion for a few hours. I have never used one, but understand that sex is not always part of that transaction. The agency gets a fee for the guy - or gal - out of which he/she will get a percentage. If sex is later involved, that's usually a separate financial transaction, or at least a substantial tip.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

What happened to the concept of dating?

[Gaybutton]

What happened to the concept of dating?

Nothing.

 

I disagree with Fountainhall on this. I don't see it as tantamount to calling an escort service. Neither do the boys I've dated this way. I see it as a date too. I don't agree that when inviting a boy one likes to spend time with and he likes spending time with you, doing things both enjoy without sex being involved, then that necessarily means the meter has to be running. Some people are convinced it's all always about money. It isn't.

 

An example of what I often do is to offer to take the boy swimming at Pattaya Park. Most love doing that. To make it fun for all, I always tell them they can invite two or three friends, and they almost always do. Everyone has a wonderful time and there is never so much as a hint for additional money.