Forgive or Forget?

[TotallyOz]

Has someone you loved and respected ever done something you consider despicable? If so, how did you deal with it? Did you try to forgive them? Did it permanently change your feelings for them?

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I have had that happen more than once. Whether I was able to forgive depended what the despicable act was and how it affected me personally.

[Guest luvthai]

I did forgive but did not forget and kinda built a wall around myself so now I am strictly a butterfly.

[Gaybutton]

For me it would depend entirely on what the person did, why he did it, and what effect it had on me. You didn't provide any details, so it's difficult to answer. If you don't want to tell us what happened, can you at least tell us if what he did was something he did to you or something he did to someone else?

 

Also, whatever it was, can you be certain he actually did it instead of someone else, but he's getting the blame? Can you even be certain he did whatever it was at all? I regularly get accused of things I haven't done right here on this board, such as banning people, deleting posts, etc. Can you be sure the same kind of thing isn't happening to him?

 

Also, did you find out and confront him with it or did he admit it to you voluntarily? Is he denying it or apologizing for it? Is he trying to do anything to make amends for what he did? Can you tell if he is genuinely sorry for what he did and wishes he could turn back the clock and undo whatever it was? Some people are genuinely sorry - not sorry for what they did, but very sorry they were caught.

 

For me, all of those kinds of things would be factors as to whether I could or could not forgive and/or forget.

 

I'm the type who is more likely not to forgive, or at best forgive, but not forget. I've been burned too many times in my life to be a forgiving soul anymore. Again, it depends on what all the factors would yield, but I'd say nine times out of ten, I don't forgive and just drop people who I know intentionally did me wrong. I've done that with Thai boys and I've done it with farang friends, even close ones, when I discovered I had been wronged, used, and lied to deliberately.

[Guest fountainhall]

I'm the type who is more likely not to forgive, or at best forgive, but not forget.

I reckon I fall into the same category. Has this changed my feelings for someone? Yes. But even when it has not, there has remained a niggling undercurrent of concern that it might happen again. I often wish, though, that I could just adopt the Thai 'mai pen rai' attitude when such things have happened.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

I believe in permanent solutions even if sometimes drastic remedies are required so I usually put up with a lot before I apply what I call my 5F's rule -

 

Find out everything

Face him with it

Forgive nothing

F*&%# him off

Forget he ever existed

[KhorTose]

I completely agree with this very wise and noted psychiatrist, who is one of the world's great humanitarians.

 

The stupid neither forgive nor forget- the smart forgive- but never forget"

-Thomas Szasz

[Guest lvdkeyes]

In that case I am smart.

[Guest rhodochrosite]

Gaybutton Says.....

I'm the type who is more likely not to forgive, or at best forgive, but not forget. I've been burned too many times in my life to be a forgiving soul anymore. Again, it depends on what all the factors would yield, but I'd say nine times out of ten, I don't forgive and just drop people who I know intentionally did me wrong. I've done that with Thai boys and I've done it with farang friends, even close ones, when I discovered I had been wronged, used, and lied to deliberately.

...My Sentiments Entirely .....rhodochrosite says!!!!

[PattayaMale]

I have a hard time forgiving. I can still stay in contact and talk with the person, but a wrong stays in my mind. So I guess that means I don't forget either.

I don't mean I cut the person out of my life. I can be very civil to them, even drink and talk with them.

 

But I can't forgive or forget

[Guest]

I have a hard time forgiving. I can still stay in contact and talk with the person, but a wrong stays in my mind. So I guess that means I don't forget either.

I don't mean I cut the person out of my life. I can be very civil to them, even drink and talk with them.

 

But I can't forgive or forget

 

Sadly, I think I am mostly the same. I like to think I can forgive anything. But, considering I bring it up over and over and over again, I guess that is not really forgiveness, but coping.

[Guest tdperhs]

The best philosophy, according to Avram Wasserstein, a wizened old Jew I knew when I was young and very confused, "You never forgive, but you lie and say you forgive and you say it loudly and you say it often. You never forget, and you let them know you never forget. And every time they see you, they will feel guilty and they will come to hate you for doing you wrong. And that is the best revenge of all."

[Guest RichLB]

The best philosophy, according to Avram Wasserstein, a wizened old Jew I knew when I was young and very confused, "You never forgive, but you lie and say you forgive and you say it loudly and you say it often. You never forget, and you let them know you never forget. And every time they see you, they will feel guilty and they will come to hate you for doing you wrong. And that is the best revenge of all."

 

As someone once said, "Reentment is a poison you feed yourself." To not forgive, seems to me, to be holding someone responsible for not being perfect. My guess is the inability to forgive others stems from projecting a mistaken belief in your own infallability.

[KhorTose]

The best philosophy, according to Avram Wasserstein, a wizened old Jew I knew when I was young and very confused, "You never forgive, but you lie and say you forgive and you say it loudly and you say it often. You never forget, and you let them know you never forget. And every time they see you, they will feel guilty and they will come to hate you for doing you wrong. And that is the best revenge of all."

 

Actually an old Jewish proverb says sort of the same thing.

 

"A Jewish wife will forgive and forget, but she'll never forget what she forgave.

 

[KhorTose]

As someone once said, "Reentment is a poison you feed yourself." To not forgive, seems to me, to be holding someone responsible for not being perfect. My guess is the inability to forgive others stems from projecting a mistaken belief in your own infallability.

 

Many have said this same thing. I would almost call it a universal truth. I hate to keep using quotes, but I can't really come up with new words, when there are so many wise men who have spoken on this subject.

 

The more a man knows, the more he forgives.

Confucius

[PattayaMale]

As someone once said, "Reentment is a poison you feed yourself." To not forgive, seems to me, to be holding someone responsible for not being perfect. My guess is the inability to forgive others stems from projecting a mistaken belief in your own infallability.

 

Words such as forgive, forget, condone, resentment, probably have different meanings to people depending on the context and the thoughts they associate with the question asked. I am not sure it means a person who does not forgive thinks he is infallible.

 

If someone bumps into me and knocks me down, I will certainly pardon. But a guy that walks by and shoots my dog is not getting forgiven by me. Now would this mean I feel infallible?

[Guest RichLB]

If someone bumps into me and knocks me down, I will certainly pardon. But a guy that walks by and shoots my dog is not getting forgiven by me. Now would this mean I feel infallible?

I think as applied here it means our refusal to accept that we are all victims of past conditining and genetics. That dog shooter lives in a world far worse than any of us could construct - he has to live with himself, after all. I've never reached the point where I could feel more pity than anger for a person like that, but that's my failing. We are all fallible to the same circumstances that drove that man and should take joy we have not moved into his world.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Not forgiving a person for something he has done to you certainly does not mean you think you are infallible. If you can never forgive anybody that would be a different story.

[Guest fountainhall]

That dog shooter lives in a world far worse than any of us could construct - he has to live with himself, after all. I've never reached the point where I could feel more pity than anger for a person like that, but that's my failing. We are all fallible to the same circumstances that drove that man and should take joy we have not moved into his world.

I have a feeling the guy doing the shooting would probably be perfectly happy in his own world, certainly by his own definition of happiness. We might feel he "lives in a world far worse than any of us could construct", but I frankly doubt if he would - sadly.

[Guest tdperhs]

A person who is quick to forgive can be signaling an invitation to further abuse. One who is quick to revenge may give an abuser pause to reflect on the consequences of abuse. All my life I have had it drummed into my head that revenge is a bad thing, but I have never heard a good argument in support of that thesis.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

A quote or misquote: Revenge is best served up cold and deliberate.

[Guest RichLB]

All my life I have had it drummed into my head that revenge is a bad thing, but I have never heard a good argument in support of that thesis.

Let me try to provide an argument. In the first place, what does revenge get you? The satisfaction of causing someone else pain - even if you think they deserve it - must be pretty hollow. But, more importantly is what seeking revenge does to you. It seems to me it forces you to focus on the prior painful behavior. That can't feel good. Also, if revenge becomes a pattern when you think you've been wronged, people are likely to feel they have to walk on eggs around you in fear of retaliation. And lastly, revenge creates a chicken or the egg scenario where you end up being no better than the hurtful person.

 

It seems to me a far better option is to recognize that either the other guy messed up and go on from there or, if it's a babit with them, move on and clean up your social circle.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Does the way of thinking also apply to the social order? Should we forgive criminals and not seek justice (revenge)?

[Gaybutton]

And lastly, revenge creates a chicken or the egg scenario where you end up being no better than the hurtful person.

Sounds better every time I hear it . . .

[KhorTose]

Does the way of thinking also apply to the social order? Should we forgive criminals and not seek justice (revenge)?

 

Not really the same thing

 

Revenge is SELFISH

Justice is SELFLESS

 

Revenge can lack justice and justice can be done without taking revenge.

 

Justice is the legal responsibility of a government toward those it governs. Revenge is the individual's attempt to circumvent the government's responsibility

 

Justice, performed well, brings closure. not so revenge.

 

OR to put it simply:

Justice "God'll getcha for that!"

Revenge "I'll getcha for that!"