Hope someone can to help me.

[Guest alaan]

Gaybutton, it doesn't really matter at THIS STAGE because i/we have'nt found out about it yet!! For godness sake man stop jumping the gun. No wonder you dont understand the 'logic'.

 

My(now)laboured point is(again). I DONT know or indeed understand the legalities regarding building ownership. It would be ONE OF THE MANY things that I would take into consideration when conducting the FIRST stage of information collecting to decide IF the investment is worth pursuing.

 

BUT i wouldn't write it off out of hand simply because some other guys on a forum said it was 'risky' when in fact they don't know for sure if it is or is not. Have you grasped this now? At this stage 'logic' has nothing to do with it.

 

But Gaybutton, as one who quickly agreed with the quote from Suze Orman, and indeed further insisted that "who is to say it wont all change before the term is completed" You said that right? You wouldn't take a chance right?

 

So what would you say to a farang who puts the property he has purchased in the name of a Thai, then leases back the property. Who is to say that the Thai wont sell or transfer that property, or indeed that there could be any change in the law further down the line or to quote you, "whose to say it could all change before the end of the lease". In this instance you are not in control of your investment. "if i'm holding the paper of the building i cannot own...i am holding a worthless bit of paper". Any comment about this type of rock-solid investment?

 

To Bob. It's a non starter for YOU. Leave it to others to decide for themselves if it is indeed a 'non starter' or not. But thankfully I have to say, that there are guys like yourself who write-off potential investments based on an initial feeling. I certainly would not have been able to retire early, as I said, had banks and others not rejected or written-off what have turned out to be gilt-edged investemnts.

 

Gay grampa True to form I was wondering who would be stupid enough to be first to come up with the stereotypical old chestnut..."put your money where your mouth is" how VERY original and immaginative. You are gullable, you do realise I wasn't REALLY interested whether you had been in contact with a bank or not, i was being facetious(have i spelled that correctly). Would these "dealings" with HSBC and other banks simply have been ATM withdrawals perchance? I'm afraid you are letting your emotions control your thinking instead of your brain, and now you are taking things personally.

 

And yes that is exactly my point, that 6 or whatever have written it off immediatly, whereas I say consider first then reject if undoable. You dont really pay attention to detail that is actually important, such as, I did NOT say I would be

"willing to give it a go" what i DID say however was I wouldn't write it off immediatly without some thought.

 

Gay-grampa to most people with 'a life' there is NOTHING "pertinent" about nit-picking some spelling error, what a rather petantic little world you must inhabit, as I said I dont NEED to know you, your posts tell more than enough. I worry for those who think that nit-picking some tiny gramatical or spelling error to be a significant event in their lives enough to bother to put it in print.

 

Yes Fountainhall my point exactly, it MAY well be a complete turkey in terms of a good proposition, but if you dont check it out..how can you know for sure? There are other ways of investing, solid ways with good returns. If anyone does want any further examples I would be only too happy to give them. But I assume the feeling will be that enough has been said on the subject.

 

But I would however, be interested to hear Gaybuttons thoughts on the lease-back senario.

[Gaybutton]

But I would however, be interested to hear Gaybuttons thoughts on the lease-back senario.

The only response you're going to get from me when I see a put-down post like yours is if you ever do it again, your post will be out of here as soon as I see it and so will you. If you can't state your views without trying to put down others, then there is no place for you on this board. You ought to know by now there is no way I tolerate such posts and you also ought to know I warn only once.

[Bob]

To Bob. It's a non starter for YOU. Leave it to others to decide for themselves if it is indeed a 'non starter' or not. But thankfully I have to say, that there are guys like yourself who write-off potential investments based on an initial feeling. I certainly would not have been able to retire early, as I said, had banks and others not rejected or written-off what have turned out to be gilt-edged investemnts.

 

Attempting to not personalize this (as GB states, you ought to try it as it'll lengthen your longevity around here), yes, it's a non-starter for me. And, contrary to your comment, I don't believe I said anywhere that others aren't allowed to decide for themselves.

 

I'm unsure, though, what you mean by my writing off a potential investment "based on an initial feeling." First, you have no clue what I have done and, although irrelevant to some degree, I've been lucky enough to retire early and reside in Chiangmai for a chunk of the year. Second, while I won't claim any maximum expertise, I am familiar with Chiangmai, it's current economic climate (including the bar scene), and Thai law regarding falang ownership of real estate.....and all of those plus other experiences as noted do help me (thank god) leap to what you call my "initial feeling." Many of the people on this board have been fully familiar with the history of bars in Thailand and I certainly would hope that this knowledge would factor into anybody's "initial feeling" as to whether it's wise to invest in a bar in Thailand.

 

The OP, who very well might be a decent guy, is asking a foreigner to give a loan so he can buy a bar building in Chiangmai. I know for certain I can't own the building, I'm not willing to risk retirement funds to even attempt the corporation trick (especially in a business where the cops tend to get snotty if you won't pay up their monthly stipend), and I clearly would never invest in a security interest in bar assets (presuming one can legally do so in this situation). So, it's an easy "no, thank you" from me. You're free to do what you want (as they say in Thailand, "up to you.")

[Guest alaan]

What an absolutely disgraceful reply for a moderator to give a member. There was NO putdown. What is the basis for claiming I was putting anybody down? Complete fabrication on your part. Where is there a putdown?

 

Why is it as soon as anybody posts something YOU simply do not like, it's threat time.

 

I am genuinely interested in a response. It is you who are making defiant statements here not me, it is you who are claiming worthlessness of bits of paper not me, please do not abuse the authority you have as a moderator here to threaten and bully me into not asking rational questions, that is unfair and unreasonable, my question regarding lease back property purchase, may be of great interest to others in a similar position, and is perfectly reasonable to ask.

 

If you dont want to reply then DONT! but dont start making unfounded threats just because you dont personally care for the question.

 

Did I throw my dummy out when YOU questioned my 'logic'? no, i just replied with some more detail. What a cowardly response, hiding behind your moderator status, i repeat, disgraceful conduct.

 

To Bob. Yes Bob that is indeed what i said, it is a non-starter for YOU. You wasted quite an amount of bandwith just to repeat that. You initially didn't say it was non-starter for youself personally, what you did was use the third party 'one' e.g. somebody else, not 'my'. I was responding to being a 'one'.

 

I will explain in an easy-understand-form. The initial feeling would be where you HAVE'NT contacted the originator who was looking for finance, and so you HAVE'NT found out exactly what the enquiry entails, and yet you have still made an assessment based on nothing more than pure conjecture. But I would be very happy to hear that you have indeed made enquiries to the OP, and that your decision to reject the idea out of hand was actually based on something 'concrete'.

 

Bob I understand what you are saying, yes i defer to those living in Chiang Mai with a good understanding of the property situation there. You are fortunate to have been able to retire there. I have that option, but at present visiting Thailand on around 10 week intervals suits me and keeps Thailand fresh for me I still enjoy and get excited at the prospect of a visit, and there is still enough back in Scotland to keep me from wanting to move from there or cut ties with there.

 

But, even with this knowledge, it still does no harm in my opinion to check out a potential investment opportunity especially where the originator is at a fairly desparate stage because that in itself gives an opportunity to call the shots, and if all the ends dont tie up one can just walk away from it.Sure if you are not interested from the first instance, fine bin it. But dont criticise others who may want to make further enquiries.

 

And there has been nothing in any of my posts to necessitate a shortening of my longevity.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I can partially answer the question of property in a Thai's name with a lease back agreement. If the Thai sells the property the lease is still valid for the leasee for the entire period of the original lease. Of course, there are no guarantees that that law won't change in the future, but it is highly unlikely.

[Guest]

I have no idea if a foreigner can buy a whole building in his own name or not either Gaybutton, but at this stage that doesn't really matter.

 

Z909. The statement you made without any further explanation whatsoever, was that "making private loans is a risky business" my reply to you and Bob is that it is no more risky in private lending than anyother "type" of lending.

 

1 As pointed out already by some of the other informed posters, knowing if I own the collateral has an enormous effect on the investment decision. Collateral that I could not own simply doesn't count.

 

2 Well let's compare the risks of:

(i) Making a private loan to a single business in a foreign country. Where I am not even sure if I could own the collateral.

(ii) Making a loan to (ie deposit in) a large solvent bank (e.g. HSBC) that is eligible for our investor deposit guarantee scheme. ie deposits of up to £50,000 are guaranteed if the bank fails.

 

Option (ii) is clearly less risky, therefore your reply that private loans are no more risky than any other type of lending is totally incorrect.

 

I have not seen any coherent or logical arguments to explain how you reach these conclusions.

What you have managed is to make a few insulting comments about other people.

[Guest alaan]

Thank you for the reply Ivdkeyes, that is just as I suspected, so what if the Thai borrows money using 'this' property in his name as collateral and then defaults on the loan? do you, or anybody else, have any idea if there is any small print or any legal situation in which (in Thailand) the party who made the loan to the Thai can have the lease made null-and-void or in some way can lay claim to the property to recoup their losses? And therefore the lease being rendered a usless bit of paper, or is there cast-iron protection under all circumstances?

 

The question I am asking with reference to the above is very relevant, and, having very little experience in Thai property and hoping this thread can depart from the "yes it is" "no it isn't" see-saw to reveal other perhaps interesting side issues worth 'checking out'.

 

Z909. You along with Bobs recent post, are really just wasting your time, It is absolutely clear from your and others posts that despite your 'logical this' and 'coherant that' you have no experience whatsoever with private funding.

 

An example of 'wasting your time' would be where in your post, you state "where i'm not even SURE that I would own the collateral" THAT is point! You CHECK all these things out BEFORE making a committment or taking it to the next stage or binning it, BUT if you dont give it SOME due consideration how can you possibly know if it has potential mileage as an investment or not. THAT IS THE ONLY POINT I AM MAKING AND MADE AT THE VERY START.

 

My posts are no more insulting than the replies made my the other apparently 'informed posters' If you regard "telling like it is as" being insulting then that is your problem entirely. If some people just cannot accept blunt replies after they consistantly jibber on about things they clearly know very little about then there is nothing i can do to ease their sensitive thin-skinned sensibilities.

 

Of course you could just ignore my posts, or as in gaybuttons case simply "restrict my posting rights" as was done to me here yesterday and some of today, which have thankfully and sensibly been re-instated, presumebly by the owner who like me, simply could not see where mr gaybutton found some "put down" as he describes it, then went on to attempt to bully and threaten me into not asking very reasonable and in my opinion relevant to the thread questions.

 

If he or anyone does not wish to reply, so be it, but to simply abuse your position and status as moderator by restricting posting rights where there have been no posting violations, just to win an arguement is disgraceful in my book, and I said so bluntly in a post which was deleted presumably by gaybutton.