Whats happening with Boyz boyz boyz?

[Olddaddy]

2 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

Wouldn't suit me. 
I like to go window shopping first, then message them on the apps after I have seen they look like their photos. 

And you wonder why the bars are going broke ??😮😲

 

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, gayinpattaya said:

I like to go window shopping first, then message them on the apps after I have seen they look like their photos. 

Also know as....stalking 😇

[reader]

Let’s hope guys don’t apply same SOP to us.

[gayinpattaya]

10 hours ago, Olddaddy said:

And you wonder why the bars are going broke ??😮😲

 

I don't go to bars to pick up boys. I spend money on drinks. And the bar I frequent doesn't really have any boys anyway. 

[Marc308]

I've always wondered why those myriads of same-same bars don't somehow manage to merge their "talents", and thus for the area to truly become a "SUPERtown" rather than a collection of hopelessly uneconomic shops. They need economy-of-scale and they need to have variety and they need to have a decent environment. Those characteristics cost money, real money; I am really surprised that more bars have not closed in JC. The reason that Jim's BBB was successful is that he understood this concept and thus BT grew and prospered.

And I totally agree about the "numbness" of the current concept -- "sit and drink and gawk" -- that only goes so far to keep people's interest. You need energy and expectation and entertainment. I agree with GIP that gay bars are an anachronism, they are a throwback to the "hush-hush" era where we were all constrained and needed a place to "be free".

Japan is a good example of this. In those days of ore when I frequented bars in Shinjuku and Shibuya, the bars were small and you needed to be cleared by an all-knowing door person to even gain access to the bar. Once inside the "host" would then introduce you to each of the guys in the small (10?) crowd. It was because most of the guys in those bars were heading for the last train home to their wives, so you had to be fast!

[Olddaddy]

37 minutes ago, Marc308 said:

And I totally agree about the "numbness" of the current concept -- "sit and drink and gawk" -- that only goes so far to keep people's interest. You nee

Very true

Will this next generation of 50yo 's in 10 years be interested in sitting outside a gay bar?

Probably not 

They need to change ,they are same same ,too many competing , not enough customers.

I mean I can't see how one thinking about opening a gay bar in Jomtien complex wouldn't know that ?

The mind puzzles 

I heard the double storey shophouses are paying something like 70k rent per month !

 

[bkkmfj2648]

1 hour ago, Marc308 said:

The reason that Jim's BBB was successful is that he understood this concept and thus BT grew and prospered.

Hi Marc308,

What is your opinion on the current format in year 2024 of BBB ?

I agree that back in the day, Jim got it right - BBB was the proper good anchor to Boyztown - especially with the 9pm marching parade of the delicious sexy guys. It was truely tantalizing.

Nowadays, BBB has become boring - as it is primarily focused on the Chinese tourist bus trade with screaming women.

The sexy guy parade is long gone.

Boyztown has lost its former excitement.

[vinapu]

6 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

 

Nowadays, BBB has become boring - as it is primarily focused on the Chinese tourist bus trade with screaming women.

The sexy guy parade is long gone.

Boyztown has lost its former excitement.

I hate to agree with you. Not because of you but because you are right unfortunately. It used to be one of life little pleasures to park myself at Castro or Pikky , beer in hand  boy beside and watch soi getting busier and busier from 7 pm , waiting for music and parade at 9. pm. Now only handful of massage freelancers , shirtless on their motorbikes are providing some visual excitement ( remember that tattooed one last month ? ). BBB boys bar 1 or 2 are completely dressed  on the stage , half of them in long sleeves !

But still bar seems to be full night after night courtesy of Chinese tour groups. I wonder how many offs new , improved formula off fee of 1000 baht generates ? and it was time  few years ago that I considered BBB best bar in whole Thailand ! 

[Marc308]

21 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

Hi Marc308,

What is your opinion on the current format in year 2024 of BBB ?

I agree that back in the day, Jim got it right - BBB was the proper good anchor to Boyztown - especially with the 9pm marching parade of the delicious sexy guys. It was truely tantalizing.

Nowadays, BBB has become boring - as it is primarily focused on the Chinese tourist bus trade with screaming women.

The sexy guy parade is long gone.

Boyztown has lost its former excitement.

BBB was once like Dolly Parton's "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas"... just a little thrill along with lots of fun (and booze). Yes, it was once the undisputed jewel, run impeccably by Jim and Gordon and Philip and Dtan and Lek.

It was all downhill the moment Jim sold out to the Swiss (now to the Chinese). Jim and crew were trusted members of our community. To answer your question, MFJ, well now for me BBB is a total bore. I wouldn't spend a baht to go into that place. The last time I went there I chastised myself for going into that crazy place.

And since BBB was the cornerstone of BT, BT also necessarily predictably began to fall apart too. Today's price is totally ridiculous given the value they offer. Once the "screaming Chinese women" get sick of the "thrill", I predict BBB, and most silly old-format boy bars, will pass from the scene.

It's time for a renaissance and renewal, guys, updating to the current age of technology and social habit. We need a new, risk-taking, imaginative, fun-loving pioneer like Jim was back then to reinvent the gay adventure. It seems that the most innovative approaches of late have come to the Bangkok massage houses, with their "easy to peruse, easy to book, stated minimum tips" and more. In even this obviously more efficient and transparent concept, the Pattaya "houses of questionable repute" have not seemed to keep pace.

 

[Olddaddy]

All these Go Go bars can't rely on farang gay  tourists unfortunately so they need the tour groups 

I think they must own the buildings as well so no rent .

But 1,000 baht for a "off" fee😲plus I imagine the guy wanting at least 2000 minimum ...all adds up and not all of us have the money 🤑 

"It's time for a renaissance and renewal, guys, updating to the current age of technology and social habit. 

Personally I don't think anyone can "renew" the gay scene in Pattaya.

Times have changed , people have changed.

 

 

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, Marc308 said:

Jim and crew were trusted members of our community.

I used to hang out with Hugh Miller, That's the name in my head, but nothing about him on Google, weird?      if you knew him...he was the manager of Ambiance for awhile and then left to open his own restaurant. He died suddenly of a heart attack, which did but didn't surprise me because of his smoking. He was a fun guy, we had a lot in common, except for the smoking. The stories he would tell me, made me laugh so much...my goodness.

[bkkmfj2648]

6 hours ago, Marc308 said:

BBB was once like Dolly Parton's "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas"... just a little thrill along with lots of fun (and booze).

Wow Marc - I could not have said it better.  Yes, the joy of going to Boyztown was the UNEXPECTED - not knowing what pleasant and tantalizing surprise was coming your way --> and this was the MAGIC of the place to make you want to come back for more and more and more....

6 hours ago, Marc308 said:

It was all downhill the moment Jim sold out to the Swiss (now to the Chinese). Jim and crew were trusted members of our community. To answer your question, MFJ, well now for me BBB is a total bore. I wouldn't spend a baht to go into that place.

To add to what you wrote above - also the noise level has become ear threatening.  I can only enter BBB now with ear plugs and I hate wearing them as you get a distorted perception and unpleasant reality.  The last time that I entered into BBB without ear plugs I had constant ringing in my ears for days and in my left ear I temporarily lost 50% of my ability to hear from it - it eventually was back to normal after one week.  That is too high a price to pay for mediocre entertainment.

6 hours ago, Marc308 said:

It's time for a renaissance and renewal, guys, updating to the current age of technology and social habit. We need a new, risk-taking, imaginative, fun-loving pioneer like Jim was back then to reinvent the gay adventure.

Marc - these are your BEST words yet.  I try in vain to say the same words to my Thai friends in the Jomtien Supertown Complex but they always reply to me:

• you too farang - you do not understand the Thai ways,
• the old people that come to Supertown do not use technology,
• in Thai society it is not correct to go against what everybody else is doing - when I bitch about the stale mantra of 'farang sit and farang drink"

And Marc, I would add to your list a place for us old-farts to dance to our generational music - but at early hours like from 8pm until midnight - that would be a Godsend - as it would get us up on our feet and out of those boring chairs and get us to have some physical action - which can only be good for our health - a win win for everybody - we can live longer, get healthy, and have fun,  and the Thais can get more satangs from us before we pass on to the next life.....

[Olddaddy]

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

I used to hang out with Hugh Miller, That's the name in my head, but nothing about him on Google, weird?      if you knew him...he was the manager of Ambiance for awhile and then left to open his own restaurant. He died suddenly of a heart attack, which did but didn't surprise me because of his smoking. He was a fun guy, we had a lot in common, except for the smoking. The stories he would tell me, made me laugh so much...my goodness.

I recall him.

I remember he got attacked assaulted in Sunee Plaza years ago 

Must be 20 years ago 

[Londoner]

BBB was never a favourite of mine- I was always more interested in twinks and, anyway,  I found the rotation of guys much too slow. There were sometimes sixty or more and it took hours to view the whole stable. And more drinks!

  However, there's one thing that seems to have been forgotten; it was the first Pattaya bar I can remember where women were much in evidence.... not just for looking but for offing. Not many, but enough to draw comment in those conservative days. I remember one seasoned US guy who'd "seen it all" since the early days of Boyztown complaining that these women were  responsible for  a recent rise in the number of STDs!

Has any other poster been to The Gambia? There (as well as in Haiti, apparently)  sex-tourism is primarily for women seeking young male companionship....and young males seeking marriage and emigration in return for favours.  There were also opportunities for such as I in the 90s. Pretty dangerous behavior which makes me shudder in retrospect.

 

[Travellerdave]

Like Londoner I have not visited BBB much during my 22 years of making innumerable boy (especially twinks) orientated visits to Pattaya. The last time was before Covid and I only have a vague memory of the first time, but I do remember the 9 (?) pm parade. I do recall seeing women customers in BBB some years ago and being surprised and uncomfortable about that, it being not usual in a gay bar, especially when they were getting the attention of the most attractive boys.

ive never been to The Gambia or indeed Africa at all - I suspect that gay men would not be welcome there. Although maybe Mozambique would be good. During a recent Pattaya visit I contacted a boy from there on Grindr for a two day boyfriend experience.

[Londoner]

We were welcomed by the Gambian beach boys-or "bumsters" as they were known. They offered their services as tour guides, sold woodcarvings....and often themselves. There were no gay bars and so the beach was the only  cruising area available. Any single man out walking was a target.  I'm talking about the 90s.... it was risky enough then, but the scene is long dead. 

I was a regular until Thailand opened my eyes as to what could be appreciated without fear of the  police. Only once did I go to a guy's room for pleasure and, my goodness, he was cute, but  the experience persuaded me that it was not worth the danger.

[vinapu]

4 hours ago, Londoner said:

 

Has any other poster been to The Gambia? 

 

off topic but honest question to English-as-first -language speakers. I noticed we say The Gambia and The Sudan but never say, The Ghana or The Tanzania to stay with former British possessions. Any idea as to why is that? Just curious 

[Keithambrose]

1 hour ago, vinapu said:

off topic but honest question to English-as-first -language speakers. I noticed we say The Gambia and The Sudan but never say, The Ghana or The Tanzania to stay with former British possessions. Any idea as to why is that? Just curious 

Actually, I don't know! I should do. We used to say The Gold Coast, (Ghana) before independence.  The Maldives?

[Londoner]

Maybe it's because it was named after the River Gambia? In fact, human settlement is  concentrated around it. The country is a very odd shape, surrounded by the francophone Senegal where the population is of the same two tribes.  Wolof and Mandinka, I think.The vagaries of  colonialism! 

The Gambia was Kunte Kinte's home (alleged)  as we older gentleman may recall.

[macaroni21]

4 hours ago, vinapu said:

off topic but honest question to English-as-first -language speakers. I noticed we say The Gambia and The Sudan but never say, The Ghana or The Tanzania to stay with former British possessions. Any idea as to why is that? Just curious 

Here goes:

When we see the word "The" before what looks like a country name, it is generally because the word had been used to refer to a geographical feature well before the country even came about. In English, geographical features are typically indicated with the definite article "the". Thus, we speak of "the Alps", "the prairie", "the Danube", "the Arctic".

I believe @Londoner is right in that the present state of which the city of Banjul is the capital takes its name from the river, known as The Gambia. The river was The Gambia, the same way we speak of The Volga, The Danube, The Ganges, The Mississippi, The Yangzi, The Chao Phraya. When is country is formed and takes its name from that geographical feature, English tends to be conservative and keeps the word "The" with it.

If tomorrow, there is a realignment of borders and a new state is formed in the Danube basin, and the new state wishes to call itself after the river, we would refer to it as The Republic of The Danube. (not Republic of Danube).

The pre-existing geographical feature does not need to be a river. "The Sudan" was for centuries the term used to refer to a vast, topographically flat (relatively speaking) area stretching from the Atlantic Ocean to the Red Sea, between the Sahara and the Bight (Gulf) of Benin inhabited by black-skinned people. It's an Arabic term, useful to the Arabs and North Africans to refer to the vast area to the south with whom they traded extensively. The modern state with the same name is a fraction of the size of the historical Sudan. But in the same conservative fashion, the English language would refer to the state as the Republic of The Sudan.

In Southeast Asia, there is The Republic of The Philippines, for similar reasons. For hundreds of years those islands had been referred to by their Spanish name, "Las Islas Filipinas", named after King Philip II of Spain. It's similar to they way we refer to The East Indies or The West Indies or The Canary Islands. So when the Filipino republic was formed and it chose to take the name of the geographical feature, it kept the word "The" in its name, this being the English convention.

In Southeast Asia too, there is a truly odd one which few people realise is odd. When Europeans (particularly the French) first met the top dog in region to the West of Vietnam and Northeast of the Kingdom of Siam, that big guy introduced himself as the king of all the Lao tribes. He said something to the effect that "I am the King of the Lao people, or King of the Laos."

It was an interesting moment of culture clash. Europeans conceived of statehood as a political power controlling territory (due to their history of feudalism). The people were secondary. If they lived in the territory, OK, the humans would, as a consequence, come under the  rule of the power. Elsewhere in the world, particularly Asia, rulers saw themselves as ruling over people. If the people lived in a territory, then indirectly the land would be brought under the king's power. And if the people moved around, the king still expected that the people remained his subjects wherever they went off to. Thus the big guy in Luang Prabang saw himself as ruler of the Lao tribes, just as the guy in Phnom Penh saw himself as ruler of the Khmer people. Today we seldom realise that the word "Laos" got corrupted along the way. Where it used to refer (in plural) to a collection of tribes and peoples, we now use it to refer to a defined territory - but only in English. The official name of the country is not Laos, it is The Lao People's Democratic Republic. They are still using the word "Lao" to refer to the people, not the land.

[Marc308]

18 hours ago, floridarob said:

I used to hang out with Hugh Miller,... The stories he would tell me, made me laugh so much...my goodness.

I remember Hugh very well. And yes he was/is? a kind soul. He split from Jim/Gordon and then went to work as a maitre d at Casa Pascal, after that I lost track of him.

He often could be found in the basement of the Ambiance counting purple bills from the last night's take in BBB. He once told me the only money that the BBB/Ambiance complex ever made was from the sale of the drinks in BBB. Everything else was a loss-leader. Interesting.

[Marc308]

12 hours ago, Londoner said:

We were welcomed by the Gambian beach boys-or "bumsters" as they were known.

 

14 hours ago, Londoner said:

Has any other poster been to The Gambia? There (as well as in Haiti, apparently)  sex-tourism is primarily for women seeking young male companionship....

 

There were many places on the globe where male companionship was for sale, mainly for female consumption. Despite admonitions from the British missionaries (who came to do good and yes they did very well!), during the hay-day of the ocean liner trade rich women from god-only-knows-where would come and canoodle with the Hawaiian beachboys. They were a major attraction! They brought in many tourists. You can read about all this in Michener's book Hawaii if you are interested. The Hawaiian culture has a far looser attitude toward sexuality than the uptight Protestants.

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, Marc308 said:

I remember Hugh very well. And yes he was/is? a kind soul. He split from Jim/Gordon and then went to work as a maitre d at Casa Pascal, after that I lost track of him.

He often could be found in the basement of the Ambiance counting purple bills from the last night's take in BBB. He once told me the only money that the BBB/Ambiance complex ever made was from the sale of the drinks in BBB. Everything else was a loss-leader. Interesting.

Now I know why I couldn't find anything on Google, his last name was spelled Millar 

It's been more than 10 yrs since he passed....where does the time go to 

https://aseannow.com/topic/695128-hugh-millar/

[12is12]

Macaroni, I salute ur erudition! 

[macaroni21]

2 hours ago, 12is12 said:

Macaroni, I salute ur erudition! 

Thank you. But let me overstay my welcome 🤪  and bore you with a bit more.

All conventions evolve; but not only do they evolve inconsistently, they also vary by regional usage. The US states of Missouri and Mississippi are also named after major rivers, but to the best of my knowledge, they have never had "The" before their names. That's American usage. And mostly because of American reporting, it's getting rare to see reference to The Sudan. American news media generally refer to the country as Sudan. (But the Americans refer to The Philippines - so the yanks are not consistent either). This evolution is sped along because we have so little use for the historical term The Sudan referring to the vast trading hinterland of the Arab and North African world, such that most have forgotten about it.

On the other hand, old usage can be very sticky. We still say The Netherlands, even if people today would be hardpressed to explain what the preceding geographical feature after which the country was named was (hint: "nether/nieder").

And one more thing about whether political entities saw themselves as territory or people, pre-feudal Europe also tended to see them as collections of people. Thus we speak of the King of the Franks, the Visigoths, the Huns, and maybe King of the Allemand (was there ever one?).