Puffs and Pans for gay venues

[Guest RichLB]

On several threads the topic of what we like and don't like in the gay venues are scattered about. How about us putting them all together.

 

Some Pans

 

1. There seems to be universal dislike for loud music. I suppose there might be some isolated younger customers who enjoy being blasted, but I've yet to find anyone who does. Turn down the music!

 

2. Lights flashing in customers' eyes. If I go to a bar to ogle the boys, I want to see the boys, not strobe lights making them virtually impossible to see.

 

3. I suppose I may be in the minority, but I find the faces of the guys and their bodies the major attraction for me. Waving willies are sort of fun to see the first couple times around the block, but, for me, an uninvited hard on is so depersonalized it becomes a turn off.

 

4. Bar shows. This is an iffy one. I can see that for the first (or second) time tourist watching aging farang drag queens might be amusing, but for those of us who live here (and during low season we ARE the customer base) it gets old pretty quick and most of my friends leave as soon as the show starts. The same can be said for dripping candle wax, the pulling of assorted objects out of a lady boy ass, shower shows, etc. Once you've seen those performances a couple times, for me, they become an interruption for why I went to the bar in the fist place.

 

5. Seating. Have any of the bar owners actually sat in the seats they provide? In many bars the choice seems to be lounging on a chaise with the back so far away you are practically laying down if trying to get comfortable or you are crammed so close to the little table in front of you you end up chewing on your knees.

 

6. Teach the guys to flirt! Nothing turns me off more than trying to catch the eye of a dancer who seems more involved with his reflection in the mirror behind me, than he is with me (or any other customer). A smile, eye contact, or some indication that he's glad I'm there captures my interest.

 

7. In host bars I like being the one to invite a guy to join me for a drink. Having a guy plop down next to me and begin fondling my leg makes it difficult to actually select a drinking companion of my choice.

 

8. Mamasans. I much prefer mamasans to introduce themselves, offer any help I might want, and then go away. I don't like it when they sit next to me and engage in protracted conversation. I know they are most probably bored and working to get me to off a guy, but I am not there to entertain them.

 

9. Restaurants. If an eatery is out of a given item, tell the customer when ordering - not an hour later (as happened to me and my friends last night).

 

10. Included service charge. If I tip, that choice is mine! The amount is my decision and not the proprietor's. If the owner is concerned his wait staff is not being adequately compensated raise his prices and don't try to slip in the service charge and VAT as a surprise to the unwary customer.

 

11. Have change. When a restaurant (or bar) is unable to make change for even 500 baht they would be advised to go to an ATM or buy something at a 7/11 and get some smaller bills.

 

12. Don't make me beg for butter. If a restaurant serves bread, bring butter.

 

13. Count the number of custormers and the number of items served. It never fails that if 4 of us are eating together, the bread basket will contain 3 pieces of bread. Make sure there is enough in the basket for evryone to have the same number of items (whether bread, carrot sticks, or whatever).

 

Some Puffs

 

1. I like it when a restaurant has a small bell or other subtle noise maker to get a waiters attention.

 

2. It always makes me feel good when an establishment gives me someting extra I did not order - a basket of popcorn, a complimentary appetizer, or even a cookie with my coffee.

 

3. Varied seating choices in a host bar. Host bars that have seating making it easy to talk to other customers and other seating options for when you may want to be more private are a welcome option, for me.

 

4. I like it when the owners of a bar or restaurant have made an effort to learn my name and seem happy that I have visited their establishment.

 

5. In those open air bars where smoking is permitted, I like having an ash tray available and/or a designated smoking area.

 

Well, these are some of my "off the top of my head" notions. Please feel free to disagree or add to either of these lists. Hopefully, any other inputs will be made to enhance the experience of going out in Pattaya.

[Guest Mark7711]

I cannot really comment on the restaurant side of things but I think I can recommend a really good venue for this type of customer when looking for drink and boy,

 

7/11 for your favorite drink

 

Then to the comfort of your lounge lighting to your satisfaction music of your choice then log in to

CAMFROG

GAY ROMEO

Or you room of choice nothing for you to complain about there unless a party start neer by

 

welcome to the real World

[Guest Yaya]

RichLB...

 

Thank you for your post. As I get ready to open bar, your comments and post are very helpful.

 

Somethings I think about and some I not know. Again, thanks.

[Guest fountainhall]

3. I suppose I may be in the minority, but I find the faces of the guys and their bodies the major attraction for me. Waving willies are sort of fun to see the first couple times around the block, but, for me, an uninvited hard on is so depersonalized it becomes a turn off.

 

6. Teach the guys to flirt! Nothing turns me off more than trying to catch the eye of a dancer who seems more involved with his reflection in the mirror behind me, than he is with me (or any other customer). A smile, eye contact, or some indication that he's glad I'm there captures my interest.

Great post RichLB. I mostly agree, especially with No. 6. There is nothing nicer in a bar than making eye contact with a boy you like who will at least occasionally return the look. I have found that happens in Funny Boys a lot. On the other hand, it's important to make the boy realise that an occasional glance in their direction does not always mean major interest on the customer's part. It can sometimes feel uncomfortable if a boy you don't fancy is staring and smiling at you the whole time. Granted, it's a fine line but generally if the customer keeps looking, then it means he's interested. If not, then he's just been looking around.

 

Re your No. 3, I agree too about the uninvited hard-on. But I am certain one of the key attractions of Krazy Dragon and Happy Boys is the customer can see 'more' of the boy than in other bars, especially when the boy is willing.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

One more thing, I like restaurants that automatically serve water with a meal. There a few here that do it. Charging 30-60 baht for water when it can be gotten at 7/11 for 7-10 baht is overcharging to me.

[Guest RichLB]

I cannot really comment on the restaurant side of things but I think I can recommend a really good venue for this type of customer when looking for drink and boy,

 

7/11 for your favorite drink

 

Then to the comfort of your lounge lighting to your satisfaction music of your choice then log in to

CAMFROG

GAY ROMEO

Or you room of choice nothing for you to complain about there unless a party start neer by

 

welcome to the real World

 

Mark, I fear you are missing the point. As you may be aware, many customers are, in fact, doing just as you suggest - turning to CamFrog and Gay Romeo. If a bar owner insists on continuing to ignore the complaints of custormers and respond snidely, I expect even more will do so. As you say, "Welcome to the real world" and those who refuse to meet changing needs are undoubtedly fighting a losing battle. But, if a bar owner is comfortable with "business as usual", he certainly won't miss my business as i search for venues who value my business and respect my complaints.

[macaroni21]

Comments to your comments, in relation to gogo bars:

 

1. There seems to be universal dislike for loud music. I suppose there might be some isolated younger customers who enjoy being blasted, but I've yet to find anyone who does.

 

Younger customers may be what bars need to attract. Anyway, in the Amor and Wi's thread, I spoke about this subject.

 

3. I suppose I may be in the minority, but I find the faces of the guys and their bodies the major attraction for me. Waving willies are sort of fun to see the first couple times around the block, but, for me, an uninvited hard on is so depersonalized it becomes a turn off.

 

I agree.

 

4. Bar shows. This is an iffy one.

 

There are shows and there are shows. The problem is getting the balance right for the target audience one wishes to attract. The Chiang Mai way of doing it may be the most successful formula, as far as offing goes. There the boys individually or in pairs get about 4-5 minutes on stage alone to do something - and it gives a chance for the customer to really see what he's going to get if he offs the performer. On the other hand, the acting or dancing skills are pathetic, so if one wishes to draw crowds more interested in watching minimally-dressed dancing or fuck acts, but not so interested in offing, the Dream Boy Bangkok (or previous Future Boys) formula may work better.

 

It depends on the market too. In Chiang Mai, local Thais and residents make, I think, the majority of the customers, so their chief intention may be to check out the boys and decide on an off. In Soi Twilight of Bangkok, (relatively) younger Asian tourists are the majority - and it may well be that they like high-energy shows similar to what they get in dance clubs. But they may be less interested in offing.

 

Pattaya has been handicapped by tighter controls over nudity, and perhaps for this reason (I'm just guessing) there has been too much lipsync gatoey cabaret, which neither sells boys nor satisfies anyone's urge to watch big cocks and fuck acts. The one show that seems to have proven itself over time in Pattaya is Wild West Boys', and if you look carefully, it actually has a key difference from other bars' shows, although it too has no nudity. What it has is high-energy dancing WITHOUT Broadway. And this may work better for non-Anglo-saxon audiences, who surely must outnumber the Anglo-saxon ones. I don't think however that Wild West's show helps sells boys any better than other bars; it just helps sell a few more drinks.

 

7. In host bars I like being the one to invite a guy to join me for a drink. Having a guy plop down next to me and begin fondling my leg makes it difficult to actually select a drinking companion of my choice.

 

8. Mamasans. I much prefer mamasans to introduce themselves, offer any help I might want, and then go away. I don't like it when they sit next to me

 

There was something about the old Twilight bar (and perhaps the present Tawan bar) that may be worth copying. The boys circulated among the customers, came up to say hello (sometimes stark naked) and a few words, but went away quite quickly if customers showed no real interest. Generally, at Twilight, they didn't sit down unless invited. Also, the waiters did not pester a customer to buy a drink for the boy until the boy had been invited to sit down. So long as the boy remained standing while in a short conversation, there was no pressure to buy him a drink.

 

The present formula widely adopted is too rigid. No customer can talk to a boy until he calls the boy over and buys him a drink. The result is that the boy cannot get to flirt, and it is probably counter-productive to offing, since the customer would be reluctant to even try to engage with any of the boys until he is almost sure. Here's another example of short-term selling destroying long-term brand value.

 

Ditto with mamasans like you said. Introduce, say a few words and then go away. They should not sit down unless invited.

[Guest fountainhall]

There was something about the old Twilight bar . . . that may be worth copying. The boys circulated among the customers, came up to say hello (sometimes stark naked) and a few words, but went away quite quickly if customers showed no real interest. Generally, at Twilight, they didn't sit down unless invited.

I sometimes wonder: was Twilight really as much fun as I remember? It was always the first bar I headed to on visits to Bangkok and I had great times there.

[PattayaMale]

Isn't it good that there is variety in what is offered at bars and that gives us choices? Some nights I really like the waving willies and "uninvited hard ons." Other nights I like the beer bars just to talk with friends. Sometimes I like the bars that also offer massages. So happily bars provide different "scenes".

 

Seating is difficult. Some bars get very crowded (or did) for their shows. Some bars have limited room and can not provide "first class reclining seats that can also become a bed". Most bars that have seats where you lie back a bit, also provide pillows where I can sit more upright. So for me, no issue.

 

Loud music makes me uncomfortable. I really never go to a bar for loud music. I think it should be more background. If I want loud music I could put on my ear buds and listen to my ipod. I want to be able to talk the boys and my friends be it a go-go or beer bar or restaurant. And I never like "elevator" music.

 

Smoking inside any bar air conditioned or not bothers me. I can tolerate it more at an open air bar, not at all in an air con bar which is closed in. I wish an open air bar would be required to have closed in "smoking rooms" that I see in airports. (I know this will not happen..yet) But the owners that allow smoking should consider having fans placed to move the smoke away from others. One bar I used to enjoy was "Come In" bar. I think it is a well run bar. I don't go there now because they have chairs in the street and fans that blow the smoke towards customers. So when I think I have found a place to relax away from smokers, some guy sits in front of me and the fan blows the smoke back into my face. They still have a good crowd though. I imagine controlling smoking in an open air bar (since no one wants to follow the law) is very difficult.

But it makes NO SENSE to me when the owner is sitting in their open air bar chain smoking. That is one of those where the "owner wants to please himself not his customers"!

 

Poor service is my third dislike. Owners that do not have enough staff or have poorly trained staffs are simply disrespecting their customers. Chaos in a bar or restaurant is the owner's fault, not the workers' fault. Salaries in Thailand are so low, that there is no excuse not to have a back up cook, a dedicated cashier, Trained waiters, trained bar tenders, and certain specific yet flexible duties like keeping restrooms, tables, clean and customers happy.

 

Other than that, let the good times roll.

[Gaybutton]

I was one of the people trying to eat with RichLB, et al, last night. I prefer not to name the restaurant, but it is one popular with the group I regularly eat with. There were eight of us. Reservations had been made hours earlier and the proprietor was told what several of us already knew we wanted to eat.

 

None of us were served promptly. I sat there for over a full hour and all I had been served in that time were a couple pieces of bread. Then, after all that time, the waiter informed me that they were out of what I had ordered. I asked the waiter why I had sat there a full hour before anyone informed me my order was not available. Naturally, the only response I got was that typical Thai sheepish smile.

 

I had ordered ala carte. This restaurant serves dinner specials which include salad, soup, the entree, and dessert. I told the waiter to bring me the special.

 

After waiting another 15 minutes, the waiter brought me the entree. I asked what happened to the salad and the soup? Again the sheepish smile. I told the waiter to take back the entree and bring what I had ordered. I knew what would happen next. I'd wait yet again, as everyone else had waited about 40 minutes or so before they received their soup and salads. I was also certain that my entree would just sit there in the kitchen and get served to me about an hour later after my salad and soup would finally arrive.

 

That didn't happen. Instead the waiter served my entree to one of the other guys with us. Of course, it wasn't what he ordered, but that's what he got.

 

By this time now I was angry. I had now been there for over an hour and a quarter and still all I had been served was a couple pieces of bread. I said I would give it another 15 minutes and if I still had been served nothing, I'm leaving.

 

That's what I ended up doing. I can't remember the last time I walked out of a restaurant. As a matter of fact, I can't remember ever walking out of a restaurant, but last night was definitely an exception.

 

I'll give that restaurant another chance because I've never experienced that kind of problem there before and I really like the food there. But it will be some time before I go back. If it happens again, that will be one restaurant that lost my business.

[PattayaMale]

I think I know the restaurant you are talking about. If you do go back try the eggplant Parmesan.

 

It is fantastic!

[Guest RichLB]

Isn't it good that there is variety in what is offered at bars and that gives us choices? Some nights I really like the waving willies and "uninvited hard ons." Other nights I like the beer bars just to talk with friends. Sometimes I like the bars that also offer massages. So happily bars provide different "scenes".

Agreed and I'd be the last one to want those beckoning erections hidden away.

 

Smoking inside any bar air conditioned or not bothers me.

I thought it was illegal to permit smoking in any enclosed establishment. Even though I'm a smoker I think you'd be well within your rights to point that law out to the owner.

 

I wish an open air bar would be required to have closed in "smoking rooms" that I see in airports. (I know this will not happen..yet) But the owners that allow smoking should consider having fans placed to move the smoke away from others.

What a good idea! If not a closed in area, at least a designated smoking zone might be a compromise to satisfy us smokers and minimize the annoyance to our friends who don't smoke. I bet a bar that made that policy would see a rise in customers.

[Gaybutton]

at least a designated smoking zone might be a compromise to satisfy us smokers

I thought they all have a designated smoking area. They call it "outside."

[ChristianPFC]

I have to add that I find air-conditioning sometimes a bit cold, and I'm sitting there in a T-shirt, so the boys on stage must be freezing. Furthermore, I hate draughts/drafts from aircon, fan or open windows or doors (however, wind outside is ok).

 

1+2 Loud music and poor illumination: I sometimes think this is done with purpose. The music in discos is loud, so you have to get closer to each other for talking which opens a gate for putting hands on shoulders or around hips to improve understanding. The flashing lights don't allow you to see each other clearly, so imagination comes in. I often found people looked better inside (disco or bar) than outside (with better light).

 

6. Teach the guys to flirt! It's surprising that some boys don't notice if a potential customer is interested. Happende several times to me. In front of massage parlors, I get chatted up by one guy, others chime in and finally they realized that I'm trying to get a better look at someone else (from the same parlor) who is sitting or standing and daydreaming.

[Gaybutton]

I sometimes think this is done with purpose.

Do you truly believe those are the reasons the music is dangerously and illegally loud and strobe lights are aimed directly into your eyes? To put it mildly, I don't share your opinion.

 

I see absolutely no justification for the music being as loud as it is in some bars, even if customers really are saying they like it that way. Whether they like it that way or not, I sure don't and it is also illegal.

 

I can understand the music being somewhat loud, but when it reaches a level at which the only way people, even when sitting right next to each other, can reasonably communicate is if they all happen to be proficient in the sign language of the deaf, I'd say that's a bit much. And in some of those bars, people working in them will eventually need that proficiency if nothing is done about the volume level.

 

This is one instance when "voting with your feet" can make the point. I can't speak for others, but for me if I find myself in a bar at which the music is that loud, I'm getting the hell out of there.

[pong]

One more thing, I like restaurants that automatically serve water with a meal.

The basic Thai rahn aharn (=eating shop) nearly always have cans of free water on the table-but generally you then order a cup of ice (1 or 2 bt) to be able to use it.

As to the OPs remarks-long, long ago the PTY beerbars along Sunee would provide just that-no dancing, boys clothed, waiting to be invited-more like a western gay bar for meetings. And drinks for 20 bt-yes, long ago.

[kokopelli]

 

1+2 Loud music and poor illumination: I sometimes think this is done with purpose.

 

I agree with Christian on this one. It is done on purpose, but what that purpose is, is beyond me. But in many venues this is the norm, loud music. Not only in bars but also in some restaurants which is beyond me.

[Guest fountainhall]

It is done on purpose, but what that purpose is, is beyond me

All I can think of is it's an attempt to bring in more young people - whose hearing is probably shot to bits by listening to their MP3 players at far too high a level. If you go into almost any youth-oriented disco these days, the decibel level not hits your ears with a fair degree of pain, the bass churns your stomach.

[Gaybutton]

All I can think of is it's an attempt to bring in more young people

What young people? The only young people I normally see in the bars are the boys who work there. Every so often I see you, gay farang here, but it's quite unusual.

 

Whatever the reason for the loud music, I don't think that's it.

 

I've had some bar owners tell me they do it because the boys like it. I'm sure they do, but the boys are not the customers.

[Guest]

The average age of gogo customers is far from young.

They should NOT be playing loud music for the target customers. Frank Sinatra in a gogo bar wouldn't work either. Some bright contemporary pop at a sensible volume would be good.

 

As for shows, well forget the ladyboys. Just get the gogo dancers to really dance in rotation. Maybe even get them to change their outfits -white trunks, orange trunks, tight fitting shorts, G string, feather duster...

 

Mamasans should only speak when spoken to.

 

Boys should make eye contact & be watching the customers, so when one gives them the nod they can rush right over. This requires good lighting of both the stage and audience seating.

[Gaybutton]

Mamasans should only speak when spoken to.

You're a true dreamer, z909 . . .