Amor and Wi's Restaurants to Close

[Gaybutton]

It is really sad to see so many venues closing their doors. Amor has been a Pattaya icon for over 16 years. Amor is closing, supposedly for renovations. I do not know if or when Amor will reopen. I understand this evening was the last night.

 

Wi's will be open through Saturday, June 5. Then he will close his doors for good. He says he will reopen when high season comes around, but not in the same location. He is looking at one location in north Pattaya. We're trying to convince him to also look in the Jomtien area.

 

Mr. Wi told us that he will do his 275 baht dinner special one last time on Saturday, June 5. After that, he closes.

 

I will post more details about both restaurants if I am told anything more that I can confirm.

[Guest]

It is really sad to see these things happening. I hope both reopen. I had many fond memories at Amor.

 

It looks like those that are in Pattaya really need to get out to the gay owned and gay friendly businesses as much as possible.

[Gaybutton]

It looks like those that are in Pattaya really need to get out to the gay owned and gay friendly businesses as much as possible.

We do, but it just isn't enough. All the problems Thailand has gone through over the last few years, coupled with the strength of the baht compared to most western currencies, has caused a serious decline in tourist numbers. As a result, the casualty list is getting longer. Unless something changes, and soon, I think this is only the beginning of the number of venues we'll see go under. After all, how long can you sustain a business if you're not getting customers?

 

I think in many cases, the venues are just as much to blame for their own demise as circumstances are to blame. I'll repeat what I've been saying for a long time. If the venues want to survive and get the customers to come, then they're going to have to change the paradigm. They need to get it through their heads that they are going to have to make changes that are attractive to customers.

 

I keep using the go-go bars as an example. We've been saying for years that raising prices, the excessively loud music, the pushy mama-sans, the high off fees, and the boys just standing there on the stage looking bored out of their minds, along with the same damned drag shows in nearly every bar is driving away customers, not attracting them.

 

People keep posting that the gay farang come to Thailand for the cheap sex. Maybe they do, but that doesn't mean they're going to look for it in bars that don't bother to do a damned thing to make themselves more attractive to customers.

 

Just this evening I was in a popular Sunee Plaza go-go bar. I lasted about 15 minutes before the incredibly loud music volume was hurting my ears and making them throb so much that I just couldn't take it any longer. That's not my idea of an enjoyable way to spend an evening.

 

The man sitting next to me told me he has talked to the owner several times about the music volume, but the owner pays no attention. We both left. That bar would have been a lot of fun and I would have spent much more money in there if it wasn't for the music volume. But I walked out. So did the man with whom I spoke. So did other customers. And there was the owner sitting by the entrance door doing nothing about it. I won't be back in that bar any time soon. I doubt that the other people who also walked out will be back any time soon either.

 

Why on earth the bars refuse to listen to the customer complaints and make that one simple improvement goes beyond me. All he had to do was turn a switch a little bit and he would have taken in several thousand more baht. But nooooooo. Keep the music volume so loud that customers can't stand it. WHY?

 

As I've said, the only thing I've seen any of the bars change is their prices. They're going to have to change much more than that if they are going to attract customers and survive. They're going to have to do things to get the customer numbers back and get gay customers to want to make the trip to Thailand. If not, it won't be Gay Romeo that destroys them. In my opinion they're doing a great job of destroying themselves through sheer complacency. And peripheral businesses, such as restaurants, that depend on gay customer numbers coming to Thailand are going to go right down the drain with them.

[KhorTose]

I lasted about 15 minutes before the incredibly loud music volume was hurting my ears and making them throb so much that I just couldn't take it any longer. That's not my idea of an enjoyable way to spend an evening. The man sitting next to me told me he has talked to the owner several times about the music volume, but the owner pays no attention.

 

I liked your whole post. However, the loud music thing is my chief complaint and it is not only in bars. I have had this problem in restaurants on several occasions. What I can never understand is why they will not turn down the music when someone complains. It completely baffles me. Only in Thailand.

[PattayaMale]

We do, but it just isn't enough. All the problems Thailand has gone through over the last few years, coupled with the strength of the baht compared to most western currencies, has caused a serious decline in tourist numbers. As a result, the casualty list is getting longer. Unless something changes, and soon, I think this is only the beginning of the number of venues we'll see go under. After all, how long can you sustain a business if you're not getting customers?

 

I think in many cases, the venues are just as much to blame for their own demise as circumstances are to blame. I'll repeat what I've been saying for a long time. If the venues want to survive and get the customers to come, then they're going to have to change the paradigm. They need to get it through their heads that they are going to have to make changes that are attractive to customers.

 

I keep using the go-go bars as an example. We've been saying for years that raising prices, the excessively loud music, the pushy mama-sans, the high off fees, and the boys just standing there on the stage looking bored out of their minds, along with the same damned drag shows in nearly every bar is driving away customers, not attracting them.

 

People keep posting that the gay farang come to Thailand for the cheap sex. Maybe they do, but that doesn't mean they're going to look for it in bars that don't bother to do a damned thing to make themselves more attractive to customers.

 

Just this evening I was in a popular Sunee Plaza go-go bar. I lasted about 15 minutes before the incredibly loud music volume was hurting my ears and making them throb so much that I just couldn't take it any longer. That's not my idea of an enjoyable way to spend an evening.

 

The man sitting next to me told me he has talked to the owner several times about the music volume, but the owner pays no attention. We both left. That bar would have been a lot of fun and I would have spent much more money in there if it wasn't for the music volume. But I walked out. So did the man with whom I spoke. So did other customers. And there was the owner sitting by the entrance door doing nothing about it. I won't be back in that bar any time soon. I doubt that the other people who also walked out will be back any time soon either.

 

Why on earth the bars refuse to listen to the customer complaints and make that one simple improvement goes beyond me. All he had to do was turn a switch a little bit and he would have taken in several thousand more baht. But nooooooo. Keep the music volume so loud that customers can't stand it. WHY?

 

As I've said, the only thing I've seen any of the bars change is their prices. They're going to have to change much more than that if they are going to attract customers and survive. They're going to have to do things to get the customer numbers back and get gay customers to want to make the trip to Thailand. If not, it won't be Gay Romeo that destroys them. In my opinion they're doing a great job of destroying themselves through sheer complacency. And peripheral businesses, such as restaurants, that depend on gay customer numbers coming to Thailand are going to go right down the drain with them.

I have heard so many friends say exactly what GayButton posted. I too have talked to bar and restaurant owners and each time they have no interest in taking advice from customers. In my view they are spoiled. They thought the tourist dollars would continue to flow in. The owners got together and raised prices really as a group. So there was no competition. It became a a mind set. All raise prices and customers have no choices. But it did not work as Sunnee Plaza did not go along with Boystown area. Then Jomtien joined in in being independent.

 

Many of the bar and restaurant owners completely forgot about the expat community. They also completely overlooked the expats requests. They got lazy or didn't care. Certainly didn't listen!

 

My friend Soi 10 Tom has said it for years. Most bars give what the owner or workers want, NOT what the customers want.

 

He and I have been the only customers in the bar. Music blaring. We asked them to lower the sound so we can hear each other talk and nothing is done. We get up and pay our bill and leave. Even when we tell tell them why we are leaving, it does not matter.

 

One of the 2 restaurants that are closing use to be a favorite of mine. I would eat there maybe 3 times a week. Then he raised his prices (alot) and added a ++ to the total bill. He lost many of his expat customers. I believe he did not care as he made more money from tourists. But high season became low season, then high and low season became no season, now it is "renovation" season.

 

Cafe Royale's restaurant will be closing for 2 months. Also for renovation. Yes Cafe is a bit dated and could use a face lift and maybe that in itself will make customers return. I am skeptical. After Ian and Robbie died, the straight owner from England (who is a nice guy) made some changes. He took the staff out of their short uniforms and put them in long pants. His aged staff were no longer fun. They became robots. Food quality suffered as did service from the robots. The spirit was gone and so were the customers. Money spent on renovation is important but that alone does not make people want to spend their entertainment dollars at an establishment.

 

GayThailand asks us to get out more and help the owners stay in business. Maybe, but I'd like to see the owners making it worthwhile for us. I go out to have fun not just spend money. The effort MUST come from them. Most are farangs that want us to give them money for a product so they (owners) can live a nice life in Pattaya. Yet they give back little.

 

When I or my friends hold a party at their house, we want our guests to enjoy themselves. We don't charge 150 baht for every drink or 300 baht to eat at the party. Yet some owners feel that we should pay them (their bar) to visit them. Yes they have a few guys sitting around smoking talking to each other, but where is the fun? At some bars it is like going to a bakery to buy stale buns!!

 

Bars and restaurants owners need to put us, their customers first!

 

Wii's restaurant will be missed. They really did have a good product and was customer focused. They just did not get the word out until too late!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I totally agree with the above. On a slightly similar note, on occasion we order KFC for delivery. We both prefer thighs and order 6 pieces, all thighs. More often than not they say they only have 3 or 4 thighs and ask if I want other pieces. I tell them I want only thighs and they should cook more and I don't mind waiting. I get some song and dance about not being able to do that. I tell them I am the customer and want what I ask for. They they put me on hold and finally come up with the pieces I want, but it is a hassle nearly every time. As this to the I don't get it list.

[Guest fountainhall]

. . . coupled with the strength of the baht compared to most western currencies

I think it's interesting to note that whilst the US$ still buys more Baht compared to the period just prior to the economic crisis in 1997 (then it was Bt. 25 to the US$), many European currencies are back to where they were at that time (e.g. the pound sterling) - after almost 13 years of being considerably higher. This is bound to have quite a major effect.

 

However, the loud music thing is my chief complaint and it is not only in bars. I have had this problem in restaurants on several occasions

Now here's something we totally agree on . I cannot for the life of me understand why restaurants feel they need to have loud music. I remember visiting Phuket once and staying at the Boathouse. I love its location right on the beach and had promised my friend a couple of great dinners accompanied only by the sound of the waves lapping on the sand. When we went down for dinner, I was appalled to see in that very small space a five-piece band - with amplification. We cancelled both our reservations and went elsewhere.

 

On another occasion, friends invited me for dinner in a top restaurant in Bangkok. As we entered, my heart sank when I saw a 'live' string quartet. All the surfaces in the restaurant were bare and so the sound was just horribly loud - and much of the playing out of tune! I had quite an argument with the manager who said he thought it was what the customers wanted. I responded that if really wanted 'live' classical music during dinner, then he should consider a flute and harp, nothing more. He seemed quite shocked that I was upset by his quartet.

 

My friend Soi 10 Tom has said it for years. Most bars give what the owner or workers want, NOT what the customers want.

And, as many have posted, this is why those who fail to take that mantra into account go out of business. I did the same when I set up my first little company. After 4 years not taking anyone's advice, I was only rescued when the company and its debts were gobbled up by a large American corporation. Only then did I come to realise the importance of the needs and wants of the customers, and the absolute necessity of doing market research from time to time. It goes for any business, I believe, but especially those in the service industry.

[Gaybutton]

I have been informed that the Amor restaurant will reopen some time around October. Of course, once I have anything more specific I will post the information.

[PattayaMale]

I have been informed that the Amor restaurant will reopen some time around October. Of course, once I have anything more specific I will post the information.

 

I do not know, but it seems that this may be a hope that the next high season actually brings in the tourists. I hope the tourist do returns and that all business owners take a look at the complaints Gaybutton put forward earlier.

[Guest Mark7711]

I Love the point you are making that businesses and owners have a responsibility in these times to attract customers its very valid and very true if they sit on their hands and stick to the old styles of running a business that has been open for years but has a declining customer base then they have to do something about it or they will suffers the consequences as we see all around us.

Let’s make an example a restaurant has a menu that only a few people like any restaurant and not referring to any one just an example and he does not try to change thing he will go under he is catering to a minority or a laundry changes his washing powder and 90% of his customers’ like the new powder and start to tell there friends and his business increses what does he do about the few customers that don’t like his new powder return to the old style powder?.

My own personal opinion is the music in the krazy dragon and yes we all know I am the one sitting by the door IS TO LOUD that’s my opinion and I go home most nights with a bloody head ache after 6 hours of it. However the vast majority of people coming in the bar over the last six months have commented on how much they like the new style mix and range of music and how it’s played to try to interact with the nationalities’ and age groups of customers we get in which includes lowering the volume at certain times and raising at others.

So what is the answer I will be damed if I now I wish I could cater for each individual that walks through the door but that’s impossible as they say you can please some of the people some of the time but you can’t please all of the people all of the time. All we can do is try.

MARK

[Guest lvdkeyes]

If the music is too loud why in the world would you sit there for 6 hours night after night?

[macaroni21]

If the music is too loud why in the world would you sit there for 6 hours night after night?

 

Because he's the boss. That's what bosses should do, be present every night. Kudos to him that he does that. It's amazing how many bar owners don't show up at their own clubs and expect it to continue minting money without personal attention (let alone listening to customers).

 

About music being too loud. I didn't comment on this in my earlier post, because it is rare that I find music too loud. Yet I see this complaint quite often on this board. I suspect, as Mark7711 said, customers have varying tastes.

 

(The one time that I did find a bar's music too loud and spoke to the manager about it, he - who was sitting just outside the front door - told me the reason: He wanted the music to reach the street, so that it would attract people into the bar. )

 

In other countries, I have seen bars cope with the varying tastes problem by having a section that is enclosed by plate glass, except for a kind of doorway, but no door. The glass cuts off about half the decibels. My guess was that they were originally smoking sections, so people could smoke and still see the exotic dancer on stage, but when smokers were evicted out of indoors altogether, they kept the section as a low-volume section, removing only the original glass door (which probbably got in the way of the waiter). From inside, you could see the exotic dancer, but still could have a conversation.

[Gaybutton]

However the vast majority of people coming in the bar over the last six months have commented on how much they like the new style mix and range of music and how it

[Guest painai]

From inside, you could see the exotic dancer, but still could have a conversation.

I always like the argument that someone says they couldn't carry on a conversation while in the bar. Why do want to carry on a conversation there anyway? I'm there to look at the guys, not talk about them. I like the loud music, it puts me in the party mood.

[Guest fountainhall]

Why do want to carry on a conversation there anyway? I'm there to look at the guys, not talk about them. I like the loud music, it puts me in the party mood.

Because I am usually in a bar with friends. And if I buy a boy a drink I want to try to chat to him a little.

 

For me personally, I really do like your bar. I like it very much, but if you're going to keep the music as loud as that, I won't be back.

Nor will I, sadly. I loved your bar in its first year or two. When in Pattaya, I always went because it was a more relaxing sort of environment with its large sofa-like seating and it was fun because the boys paraded round regularly. It was different and that made it fun. I stopped going when the format seemed to change. The music got a lot louder and so chatting became very difficult, and the regular flow of boys turned into a trickle, not because they were with customers but because most were sitting at the back behind the bar chatting amongst themselves. If they did not get much interest from customers, they seemed to lose interest much more quickly. I also found the boys became much more macho which is not my type. So I just got bored. But then I live in Bangkok and only visit occasionally. I'm certainly not the type of regular customer you should be appealing to.

 

Two of the few bars getting a lot of customers these days are both Happy Bar and Funny Boys. The volume level in both bars is comfortable and nobody is walking out because of it. They're both doing plenty of business.

With Happy Boys, the attraction for me is that, far from seeming to be just a job, the boys themselves always seem to be having a great deal of fun. If I buy two or three a drink, I always have a great time there.

[macaroni21]

I always like the argument that someone says they couldn't carry on a conversation while in the bar. Why do want to carry on a conversation there anyway?

 

Well, sometimes we visit bars with friends.

 

And perhaps I need to clarify, I wasn't referring to Krazy Dragon when I mentioned the story of the manager saying he wanted the music to get all the way out to the street. It was a bar in Pattayaland Soi 1.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

If the boss finds the music so loud that it gives him a headache, why on earth doesn't he turn it down?

[Guest Mark7711]

If the boss finds the music so loud that it gives him a headache, why on earth doesn't he turn it down?

 

 

As i have pointed out severl times already becouse the majority of the customers are enjoing it. Not all are but the majority are and i have to run a bussness that the customers enjoy not me i am there to make a proffit not have a night out.

[Guest Mark7711]

I am not trying to blind the problem of the music I myself agree that I think it

[PattayaMale]

I Love the point you are making that businesses and owners have a responsibility in these times to attract customers its very valid and very true if they sit on their hands and stick to the old styles of running a business that has been open for years but has a declining customer base then they have to do something about it or they will suffers the consequences as we see all around us.

Let

[Guest richsilver]

How the hell did a topic called "Amor and Wii's Restaurants to Close" turn into a discussion of loud music in go go bars?

 

Why can't we stick to topics here? Why doesn't the moderator put his foot down and insist posters start a new topic so that those of us who are interested in the topic don't have to plow through stuff we are not interested in?

[PattayaMale]

How the hell did a topic called "Amor and Wii's Restaurants to Close" turn into a discussion of loud music in go go bars?

 

Why can't we stick to topics here? Why doesn't the moderator put his foot down and insist posters start a new topic so that those of us who are interested in the topic don't have to plow through stuff we are not interested in?

 

2 things in answering you question comes to mind.

 

First, "topics" have become more like conversations. When you sit and discuss things with friends, one comment leads to another. So a topic on 2 venues closing might lead to reasons why venues close. So I think that is how board topics now evolve into conversations.

 

Secondly, your post was an excellent new topic starter. A new topic, thread or conversation titled "Why can't we stick to topics." Which really has nothing at all to do with "Amor and Wi's Restaurants to close"

[Guest fountainhall]

How the hell did a topic called "Amor and Wii's Restaurants to Close" turn into a discussion of load music in go go bars?

If you read through the posts you'll find they're all quite logical. Restaurants closing lead to reasons for closing and how more patrons could be attracted to prevent closings. That led to a comparison with bars - which included references in several posts about loud music in both restaurants and bars. If every thread was to stick literally to its one-line title, threads would be pretty threadbare IMHO

 

Anyone can start a new post. So, in addition to PattayMale's suggestion, you're perfectly at liberty to start one up about "Music and Bars" or even "Why I'm NOT interested about Music in Bars"!

[Gaybutton]

Why doesn't the moderator put his foot down and insist posters start a new topic so that those of us who are interested in the topic don't have to plow through stuff we are not interested in?

I saw no reason to put my foot down and I don't think the other moderators saw a reason to intervene. I don't think very many people would dispute that when I see a reason to put my foot down, it goes down. I also think RichLB's "Puffs and Pans" thread has already done precisely what you ask.

 

Besides, I can't win. Whenever I put my foot down, next thing I know I'm called a control freak. If I don't put my foot down, I get the kind of complaint you're making. How do I win? I've said many times over the years that no matter what we do or how we do it, somebody doesn't like what we do or how we do it.

 

I started this particular topic to inform people about Amor and Wi's. People read it and anything anyone wanted to specifically say about it was said. Then we got off of posting about those specific restaurants and got into why some of us think other restaurants and venues will also close without changes being made. To me, it's all part of the same overall subject. I agree with fountainhall that this topic is progressing logically.

 

Also, I haven't seen anyone else making the same complaint you're making. This topic has gotten over 400 hits, a great many more than the majority of topics lately, so it seems to me that somebody is interested.

 

I have no objection if GT or any of the other moderators wish to put their foot down, but as for me, I think I'll leave my foot where it usually is . . . in my mouth.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

You have to be careful when you put your foot down. You are apt to break the heel on your stilettos.