"How Can We Survive?" - Small Business Owners in Bangkok

[Gaybutton]

Sadness in Siam

 

Small business owners mourn loss of livelihoods and even greater damage to the spirit of one of Bangkok's most popular shopping spots.

 

Published: 24/05/2010

 

Pennisa Wongsricharoenrung looks across the table, her hands shaking and eyes red and glazed, thinking of fire.

 

"The damage was so much worse than what I saw on TV. My first thought was, how can my family survive after our shops were destroyed?" she asks in a shaking voice.

 

Her seven shops in Siam Square are now ashes, consumed along with 100 other small businesses in the blazes that shook the Ratchaprasong area last Wednesday.

 

Sadness in Siam

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Maybe the red shits can reimburse them with the money they get from Toxin.

[Guest]

Maybe the red shits can reimburse them with the money they get from Toxin.

 

Or, maybe the Yellow's can reimburse them for the money they took from him?

 

I really don't understand why all the blame here goes to the Reds. If they had been left alone (like the Yellow Shirts before) there would still be protests but no deaths, no destruction, no burning down of buildings. Don't kid yourself and think otherwise.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

And the central business district in Bangkok would still be shut down and people would still be out of work.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Or, maybe the Yellow's can reimburse them for the money they took from him?

 

I really don't understand why all the blame here goes to the Reds. If they had been left alone (like the Yellow Shirts before) there would still be protests but no deaths, no destruction, no burning down of buildings. Don't kid yourself and think otherwise.

 

Sorry, but I am going to have to strongly disagree with you on several counts!

 

Just the continuation of the protest was destruction on a daily basis. There were eight major hotels and two major shopping centers shut down, 1000's out of work, many unable to stay in their own homes, and lots of people running around with guns and clubs...this was destruction in and of itself.

 

Once they had the black shirt security on board to "guard" the red shirts, there was going to be death, destruction, and fire...no way out. That is the reason they were hired and put in place. Too bad people didn't realize that the only good the tires would do is burn and smoke.

 

About two weeks ago now, the red shirts were offered a "road map" that included all of their major demands, including the dissolution of the government, their required elections, etc. Most were in favor of accepting, and ending the protest. But two leaders were against it and wanted to make more demands. In other words (my opinion) they were told by their boss Thaskin, that was feeding them large sums of money, not to accept this road map, and to continue the protest. Thaskin wasn't going to allow them to accept the government offer, because the only way Thaskin could win is if the government was overthrown, so he could return and collect all his money and POWER.

 

When the red shirts did throw in the towel, it was the militant group, led mostly by the black shirts, that started all the problems... and once it was started it was like its own little wildfire that grew and grew. The destruction of the major shopping center had to be a direct effort, as is wasn't a couple of Molatov cocktails thrown in a window that caused that major fire in a well built fire safe building!!

 

It was clear to the government that when the road map was rejected, the only way to end the protest was to physically move the red shirts out of the rally area. For the number of people involved on both sides, I think that the number of deaths and injuries on the final day of the protest was very low. If the soldiers had come in shooting like some have claimed, there were have been hundreds of deaths just last Wednesday.

 

I am not on either side, but it is clear to me that this isn't about democracy in any shape or form (even though many of the demonstrators believe that in their heart), but is about MONEY & POWER.

[KhorTose]

And the central business district in Bangkok would still be shut down and people would still be out of work.

Just like people where out of work during the airport shut down. Would not a better solution be to have an election and then abide by the results, or maybe to have an independent party broker a solution like several NGOs offered to do. Remember this all started with a the 18th military coup since 1932, and at that time Thailand was doing very well economically--whether or not you like Thaskin.

[Guest]

And the central business district in Bangkok would still be shut down and people would still be out of work.

 

I had much rather all of the businesses be shut down than the number of deaths that occurred. But, that is just me valuing human life over currency.

[Gaybutton]

Don't kid yourself and think otherwise.

I'm going to kid myself and think otherwise. To me, the Yellow-Shirts were wrong to take over the airport. The Thai government was wrong to turn a peaceful demonstration into a violent demonstration. The Red-Shirts were wrong to destroy half of Bangkok and other buildings within Thailand.

 

While I certainly can condone each side wishing to bring serious attention to their political views, I do not condone the methods by which they did it.

 

To my mind, they all were wrong to do what they did. I haven't seen a side yet that is doing the right thing by means of their methods. The Red-Shirts want free elections and an end to class inequality in which the poor have virtually no real chance to be able to succeed in life. The Yellow-Shirts don't want their country led by a would-be dictator or a puppet government.

 

You don't achieve your goals by taking over airports, killing people, destroying property, rioting, and everything else that's been going on. So far, I think it's been a question of which side can outlast and outgun the other and so far none of the sides is any closer to their goals than they were before any of this got started.

 

Thailand is now a house divided. If Abraham Lincoln was right that a house divided cannot stand, then if Thailand falls I can't help but wonder if Humpty Dumpty will ever really be able to be put together again, at least any time reasonably soon.

[Guest]

I'm going to kid myself and think otherwise. To me, the Yellow-Shirts were wrong to take over the airport. The Thai government was wrong to turn a peaceful demonstration into a violent demonstration. The Red-Shirts were wrong to destroy half of Bangkok and other buildings within Thailand.

 

While I certainly can condone each side wishing to bring serious attention to their political views, I do not condone the methods by which they did it.

 

To my mind, they all were wrong to do what they did. I haven't seen a side yet that is doing the right thing by means of their methods. The Red-Shirts want free elections and an end to class inequality in which the poor have virtually no real chance to be able to succeed in life. The Yellow-Shirts don't want their country led by a would-be dictator or a puppet government.

 

You don't achieve your goals by taking over airports, killing people, destroying property, rioting, and everything else that's been going on. So far, I think it's been a question of which side can outlast and outgun the other and so far none of the sides is any closer to their goals than they were before any of this got started.

 

Thailand is now a house divided. If Abraham Lincoln was right that a house divided cannot stand, then if Thailand falls I can't help but wonder if Humpty Dumpty will ever really be able to be put together again, at least any time reasonably soon.

 

You summed up what I have been thinking for quite a while. Thank you.

[Guest fountainhall]

Or, maybe the Yellow's can reimburse them for the money they took from him?

Huh? That's stretching it more than a bit! I don't recall any of the Supreme Court justices sitting in the airport or the other yellow shirt protests. Flippant though that may sound, the fact is that Thaksin stole a vast amount from the nation when he passed the law permitting him and his family not to pay tax on the sale of his company to Singapore's Temasek Holdings for US$1.9 billion. I do not know what the tax rates were on share sales and capital gains, but I'll bet it was in the billions of Baht on that sale. And that's before you look at the changes he made to previously agreed purchases to the generals in Myanmar, changes which again directly benefitted his own business interests.

 

If they had been left alone (like the Yellow Shirts before) there would still be protests but no deaths, no destruction, no burning down of buildings. Don't kid yourself and think otherwise.

Like GB I do think otherwise - and I am not kidding myself. Tell that to my young gay Thai friend whose business near the Siam Theatre burned down. That did not concern him so much as the fact that lack of more than a handful of customers in the weeks leading up to the arson had made him bankrupt. The fact is that many small businesses went bankrupt and many tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands when you count in those employed by suppliers of business, hotels, malls etc.) of ordinary hard working Thais were either thrown out of work or put on short time wages simply because the government sat back and let the red-shirts occupy the heart of the city for many weeks. The yellow shirts did not put any individuals out of business, as far as I am aware (and do correct me if I am wrong), and the closure of the airports was for about one week. Whatever that inconvenience (which was massive), I doubt if it put many people out of business.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I had much rather all of the businesses be shut down than the number of deaths that occurred. But, that is just me valuing human life over currency.

 

No one would argue with that, but a blood bath was inevitable and the longer the standoff the more deadly it would be. The standoff should have been ended long before it did. IMHO

[Guest fountainhall]

But two leaders were against it and wanted to make more demands. In other words (my opinion) they were told by their boss Thaskin, that was feeding them large sums of money, not to accept this road map, and to continue the protest. Thaskin wasn't going to allow them to accept the government offer, because the only way Thaskin could win is if the government was overthrown, so he could return and collect all his money and POWER . . . I am not on either side, but it is clear to me that this isn't about democracy in any shape or form (even though many of the demonstrators believe that in their heart), but is about MONEY & POWER.

I mostly agree. There are a couple of posters who talk about the red-shirt protest as being spontaneous, as the start of a revolution and of the influence of Thaksin being considerably overrated. First, let’s be perfectly clear: it was not spontaneous. It was a direct result of the Supreme Court’s end February ruling that a large part of Thaksin’s assets – many ill-gotten – be confiscated. And it’s no coincidence that it started only about a month later.

 

Secondly, revolution. I do happen to think that something has started in Thailand which some may liken to a revolution. I do not think it is similar to others which have been quoted on this site – the American, French, Russian, Chinese etc. But I do think there has been an awakening of consciousness which will not be put back to sleep. And the present and future governments will ignore that at their peril.

 

Thirdly, Thaksin To suggest that he is not the root cause of the protests is to believe there are fairies at the bottom of the garden (I don’t have a garden and so cannot test the theory)! Without Thaksin’s money, power and influence, there would have been no protest. I totally agree with GaySacGuy. Since his exile, he has had two overarching ambitions – the overturn of the convictions against him so he can come back to the country, and the return of his wealth.

 

To these ends, who has been the lead speaker at the many red-shirt rallies which have been allowed to take place around the country ever since the Abhisit government took over the reigns of government? Thaksin. Who has urged mass protests against the government? Thaksin. Who came out on CNN in early April last year urging

 

it is time for people to come out in revolution

Thaksin. And who a few days earlier is also quoted on public video saying -

 

If there is the sound of gunfire, of soldiers shooting the people, I’ll return immediately to lead you to march on Bangkok

I think I need go no further. Except perhaps to ask: where has the man been in the last 2 months and why has been been so strangely silent? He incites the people to protest and then hides in his warren so no arrows can find him. That's real courage, guys!

[billyhouston]

 

I think I need go no further. Except perhaps to ask: where has the man been in the last 2 months and why has been been so strangely silent? He incites the people to protest and then hides in his warren so no arrows can find him. That's real courage, guys!

 

.... and who has subsequently been 'predicting' guerrilla warfare?

 

"(Reuters) - Exiled former Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said on Wednesday that a military crackdown on protesters backing him could spawn mass discontent and lead to guerrilla warfare."

 

It's unlikely that he will ever be able to return to Thailand for fear of assassination......

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Now that he has a warrant out for him for terrorism, let's see what happens.

[KhorTose]

Now that he has a warrant out for him for terrorism, let's see what happens.

 

Yes, I am dying to see the Thai government present their evidence at an extradition hearing. Look for this warrant being withdrawn. No need to argue about whether I am right or not, just watch and wait.

[Guest fountainhall]

Look for this warrant being withdrawn. No need to argue about whether I am right or not, just watch and wait.

I think it will just sit in a lot of filing cabinets gathering dust. The last thing the present government would want is for Thaksin to be in the country under lock and key. They don't want him here at all, under any circumstances - period. Hopefully, though, it will prevent him from being as active in stirring up trouble as he was before.

[Gaybutton]

Thaksin's attorney is going to appeal the warrant. I have no idea how other countries harboring him will respond to the terrorism warrant, but I have a feeling that Thaksin will be concentrating on himself now rather than worrying about protests.

__________

 

Thaksin's Lawyer to Submit Appeal Against Thaksin's Warrant

 

Phichit Chuenban, a lawyer of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, said Wednesday that he will submit an appeal against the Criminal Court's approval of terrorism arrest warrant against Thaksin.

 

Thaksin's lawyer to submit appeal against Thaksin's warrant

[Guest]

I have a feeling that Thaksin will be concentrating on himself now rather than worrying

 

I doubt that.

[Guest fountainhall]

Thaksin's Lawyer to Submit Appeal Against Thaksin's Warrant

Well! Well! Well! Is this not the same Phichit Chuenban who was sentenced to 6 months in jail in June last year for the so-called "pastry gate" affair? This was, you'll recall, the occasion when three lawyers acting for Thaksin handed a court official a lunchbox stuffed with Bt. 2 million in notes suggesting the official "divide it up among yourselves". My understanding is that any lawyer so convicted can not practise law again in Thailand!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I thought Thaksin got himself a Canadian lawyer. Can he represent him in Thailand? Would he be representing him from outside Thailand?

[Guest fountainhall]

Seems like he has a battery of them around the world. Today's Guardian has this comment -

 

Shortly after the court announced its decision, Thaksin's lawyer, London-based Robert Amsterdam, said the government had "perverted justice through the laying of a charge that violates logic, law and any claim of hopes for reconciliation".

Thai court issues warrant for arrest of Thaksin Shinawatra | World news | guardian.co.uk

 

Apart from the fact that the charge is perfectly logical, surely this bystander's stupid comment about it violating "hopes for reconciliation" rather confirms Thaksin's role as one of the key players in last weeks tragedy.

[Gaybutton]

I thought Thaksin got himself a Canadian lawyer.

I would think Thaksin has many more lawyers than just the ones in Thailand. I would guess he has lawyers in every country he goes to, in case he has to try to fight extradition to Thailand. In any case, it was his Thai lawyers who submitted the appeal today.

_____

 

Thaksin's Lawyer Submits Appeal Against Terrorism Warrant

 

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's lawyer Wednesday submitted an appeal to the Criminal Court against the court's approval of arrest warrant against the former premier on charge of terrorism.

 

Thanadej Puangpool, the lawyer, Phichit Chuenban, a legal advisor and their team arrived at the court at 2:30 pm and submitted the appeal.

 

The appeal called for an urgent consideration of the case.

 

Thaksin's lawyer submits appeal against terrorism warrant