Long Term Offs

[TotallyOz]

Long-term

[Guest namjai]

I will usually off a boy for the length of my stay in Pattaya, but will have him or us together go to the bar DAILY to pay the off charge. If you make it the boys responsibility to pay the mamasan, it will be done. Also, if you and the boy are not happy together after a few days, you lose no advance fee.

[Guest PapaDavid]

I have only had a long term "off" once when I paid for a week. Everything was fine for the first three days and then the boy would disappear when we were out in the evening and not re-appear until the early hours of the morning. When questioned he said he had been out drinking with his friends. Needless to say after two days of this I dumped him.

 

I think the guy assumed that he could take advantage, secure in the knowledge that he had work and money for a whole week.

 

My policy since then has been to go to the bar every evening and pay the off fee each day and only on the rare occasion when we were going to be far away from the bar would I pay for two night's off at the same time.

[TotallyOz]

To clarify more, I paid the off fee for the guy but after spending time with him, I wanted him to be my boyfriend. He moved in with me. I did not want to leave the bar on bad terms so I kept paying his off fee for the bar for 10 days even though the guy was not working there any longer. I thought this was a good way to move him from bar to not working.

[Guest pete1969]

GB, some bars in LOS still expect you to buy a boy from the bar. I know that My Way and Tangmo in Phuket still expect 50,000 baht up if a farang wants to buy off his boy for forever (or however long their relationship may last).

 

In fact, when I was in Phuket recently, I ran across four or five farang who had done just that. However, these farang were living in the Phuket community with their boy, so I guess they had to pay to continue their good relations in the community.

 

My boy had worked in one of those bars for only a few weeks before I permanently offed him. Several of the captains told my boy that the owner would want 60,000 or more for me to buy him off because the boy had such potential. My boy told them he was not a buffalo to be bought and sold and that no one owned him. Call me a cad, but we left without paying this exorbitant fee (although I had already paid for six weeks of offs without a discount--though I did get many free drinks in the bar).

 

My boy quit the bar, and he says if we break up and he has to work that he will work in BKK where the boys can work where ever they want for as long or as little as they want. In Phuket, it seems even if a boy leaves one of the bars to work in another bar, then the boy or the owner of the new bar has to pay.

 

It is not a system I agree with or will participate in, but it is still standard practice at least in Phuket (and I think this may be the only palce in LOS where this still happens). Maybe the mamsan in your bar wants you to pay a more hefty permanent off fee.

 

Pete

[Gaybutton]

GB, some bars in LOS still expect you to buy a boy from the bar. I know that My Way and Tangmo in Phuket still expect 50,000 baht up if a farang wants to buy off his boy for forever (or however long their relationship may last).

 

It sounds like a real racket to me. I don't see how such a thing can be enforced. Why wouldn't the boy simply quit? Even if the boy owes the bar money, I know of no laws in Thailand that permit slavery or indentured servitude under any circumstances. If it were me, I wouldn't say anything to the bar in the first place. I'd simply "off" the boy as usual and that would be the end of him ever returning to the bar. If anyone from the bar tracked me down and demanded a large amount of money, I would first tell him fine with me . . . I'll be glad to handle the transaction at the police station. Second, if I had not said anything to the bar, then that could only mean the boy had. I would smell a very big rat and would certainly suspect that the boy is in on the racket.

 

I'm picturing a scenario in which the "farang" pays whatever the amount is (which would put him in serious trouble, I would think, if authorities from his home country ever found out about that), and then a short time later the boy tells the "farang" sorry, but this just isn't working out for me. The boy returns to the bar and gets his share of the take. What could the "farang" possibly do about it? Somehow I can't picture a "farang" going to the police and saying, "I bought a boy from such-and-such bar, but the boy backed out of the deal and now the bar won't give me my money back."

 

Even if such buying and selling does occur, I would advise keeping well away from a thing like that.

 

I've heard of poverty stricken families virtually selling a boy to a "farang," although I know of no actual cases of that occurring. But buying a boy from a bar? That's a new one to me.

[Guest pete1969]

From what I understand it used to happen in many LOS bars (true or not, I don't know).

 

The problem for the boy is that if he does just quit (as my boy did), he won't be able to work for a bar in Phuket. My boy did not care; however, many LT boys there have regular customers who come to Phuket. I also would not be surprised if the boy got a cut of the money.

 

One of the things that endears me to my boy is that he just walked away from the bar and refused to let me get sucked into the racket. He did also tell me in a joking manner "if you want to give away 50,000 baht, just give it to me."

 

Pete

[TotallyOz]

"if you want to give away 50,000 baht, just give it to me."

 

I think an arrangement like you are referring to is not common. I can see a small town like Phuket but Pattaya and Bangkok have too many bars and opportunities. I have never heard of a bar asking for that kind of money for an off in either city. In fact, I think it is the opposite. I see many boys come and go often. Most owners realize this and plan accordingly. My understanding is that the bars in Pattaya, when a boy leaves before the salary draw, they loose it. As most only get around 3k bath a month, most don't care when a good opportunity arises.

 

And, Pete, I agree with your BF. Just give the money to him or buy him something nice. It would be money much better spent.

 

 

[Guest ToyFan]

50 to 60,000 baht! I think they were trying it on; in the event some of us might be that dumb.

Some places will let you pay several day's off at one time, others demand you to come in and drink (2-drink minimum) every night and\or add the cost of 2 drinks to the nightly off if you don't. Even, in that case, a month of offs wouldn't be more than about 18,000 baht. Unless they are trying to say he averages 3 offs a night and, if they told me he averages 3 a night, I'd tell them to keep the hose-bag! (And meet him later.)

 

I have heard (Most) bars charge boys a 'bar fine' (Equal to the off fee.) for each night they are away from the bar, If they want to return to the (same) bar and will make them pay before they can return, not deduct from forthcoming pay.

I know some bars pay once a month, usually, on the eighth of the month. If the boy quits before payday he's screwed out of, up to, a month's pay, for example: if he quits on payday, he's screwed out of a week's pay. At some bars this includes what they get for drinks (Chits) customers buy them; some places may pay when they turn in the chit(s).

 

I'll Never Forget What's`is-name.

Ten years ago; one boy stayed with me a month. (I met him New Years night. I saw moonlight in his eyes. Later, dawn broke. He was glassy-eyed drunk.)

When pay day came, a week later, he quit the bar and asked me to give him, 'ex-tra--same-same off.' He figured out, he'd be ahead.

'Okay, fine with me,' but, after two more weeks he got blind drunk, and again the next night, and the next.

I, by the way, hadn't been drunk in years, in fact; seldom drink.

Next morning; I sat him down and firmly warned him.

He stayed sober two nights, got plastered again and woke up with a massive hangover to find all his bits and pieces packed in carrier bags. (Blue ones with cute smiley faces.)

"Bye-bye, Tee-lak," I said.

He called me a charming name I still laugh when I think about!

But he came back, next day, saying he'd be...'good boy.'

I believe in second chances. This was his third but I relented.

And he was good.

Damn good!

For two more days.

Then he bought (In a restaurant. Meaning; added to the food bill I paid. Snea-ky! ) a quart of sister Mae (Kong). Back at the room, he drank more than half & harangued me for two hours about, 'Thai people not need boss, rules, laws,' and demonstrated how Thai show displeasure by slowly walking away looking back over the shoulder with the lip out. (And farang don't, I guess.) The acting was a sight to behold. Naturally, I laughed.) and he brought out that charming name again. I know he thought the name mai su pahp (Not polite) but I was really flattered and laughed even more everytime he said it. Which made him testier.

I thought, 'Here's where I get a lung kicked out.'

But he fell down.

Because he'd passed out.

So I carried him out to the hall.

And left him there. With a, Do Not Disturb, sign over his koi.

I almost didn't recognize him when, a couple years ago, back on the game, he came into Reggie's beer-bar where I sat people-watching, drinking nam-soda manao.

He sat down beside me and said, "Saswadee krabp, Khun (that old, charming name)."

I said, Saswadee krabp, Khun Gon Wan ." (I changed the name to protect the not-so innocent.)

He seemed surprised I remembered.

He'd got fat.

I hadn't.

I bought him a beer. (Like giving a baby duct-tape! To keep him occupied.)

He took a dainty guzzle.

I said, "We'll always have (Paris?) No, Star Boys.)," and made a graceful exit; slowly walking away, looking back over my shoulder, with the lip out. And my eyes crossed.

Always leave `em laughing.

I only regret, (Why is there never one there when you want one so much you'd tip 500 baht?) the baby elephant wasn't there.

Then, I could have rode away in style!

True to that, charming, name.

 

 

[Guest mauRICE]

It sounds like a real racket to me. I don't see how such a thing can be enforced. Why wouldn't the boy simply quit? Even if the boy owes the bar money, I know of no laws in Thailand that permit slavery or indentured servitude under any circumstances.

 

Unfortunately, slavery was still very much a part of Thai life as recently as 106 years ago. It was legally abolished by Rama V in 1900 but vestiges of it clearly remain in contemporary Thai practices. The wai, the unwillingless to speak up against their superiors, offering the services of one's child to clear a debt, the abject prostation before a fellow human being deemed of noble birth - all encompassed in a rigid, feudal, social heirarchy - are living remnants of that centuries-old tradition.

 

Perhaps bringing up the law in situations which flagrantly flout it, such as prostitution, is not instructve. They exist on the kindness of the authorities, a kindness purchased and nurtured with cut-backs and corruption. To paraphrase an old maxim, he who comes to the law must come with clean hands and in the whore business, everybody's hands are dirty, including the jai dii punter's very own.

 

I believe this requirement of paying a lump sum compensation to the bar for taking a boy away permanently is the unique practice of the owner of a string of bars and businesses in the Paradise Complex in Phuket. He is affectionately known as The Godfather. You all know who he is. He scares the living daylights out of his boys and is not to be trifled with. He has sent his goons after boys who were found out to have run off with farang to places as far away as Chiang Rai. He is well connected to the Phuket underworld and the police in his district. You cannot touch him. It is best not to associate with him at all.

[khaolakguy]

To the boys The Godfather is also known as Thaksin, due to the physical similarities and business practices. Behind his back of course.

 

 

[Guest pete1969]

Interestingly enough, I think you may be talking of two different people as the descriptions fit the two major powers in Patong Beach. I have never heard the Thaskin comparision though. Both of these people require a farang to buy off a boy for a permanent off.

 

Also, at least with one of them, the boys can work anywhere else they like in LOS or leave at anytime. They just can't work for another boss in Patong (at least in the gay strip). They also can quit to go off permanently with a farang, but they won't be working in Patong again if the farang does not pay the permanent off fee. However, the boys are still very scared of crossing this boss.

 

The other boss does have a fearsome reputation and some lofty connections. I agree with what Maurice says. Farang don't have to worry, but the Thais do.

 

Oddly enough, both of these people complained to me this summer about how difficult it was for them to find boys to work now. Go figure.

 

Pete

[Guest mauRICE]

The Godfather I'm referring to, in the words of Ol' Blue Eyes, likes to do it My (sic) Way.

 

I hear the watermelon, the other big player in Patong, has a similar reputation.

 

Neither one bears a physical resemblance to Thaksin to me.

[Gaybutton]

If that's the case in Phuket, then I'd say not to get involved with a boy working in a Phuket bar. Seems logical to enough to me. Somehow, getting involved with organized crime bosses in a foreign country, even indirectly, doesn't seem like the smartest thing in the world to do. If what you say is true, then I wouldn't put it past them to threaten the boy's family as well, which would really put the boy between a rock and a hard place. Unfortunately, some "farang" stop thinking with their brains and start thinking with their crotch instead as soon as they step off the plane. If anything, then you're probably doing the boy more of a favor by refusing any involvement with such a scheme, which would put him in deeper with this sort of mafia than he already is. Apparently, pete1969 has seen these goings on for himself, so I'm taking his word for it as being true.

[khaolakguy]

Interestingly enough, I think you may be talking of two different people as the descriptions fit the two major powers in Patong Beach. I have never heard the Thaskin comparision though. Both of these people require a farang to buy off a boy for a permanent off.

 

 

Maurice and I are talking about the same person.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest pete1969]

Hmm. I know for a fact that both My Way and Tangmo charge a customer if he wants to permanently off a boy.

 

I don't know about any of the other more unsavory elements in terms of My Way (although I have heard those stories about the other bar), and I've been very involved with a number of staff from My Way (both of my BFs worked there). I've known a large number of boys who have quit My Way to work in other bars in other cities or in other places with no consequences as long as they did not owe any money. I will say that one of the reasons my current BF wanted to quit working there was due to the hold the bar owners had on the staff. It is not like that anywhere else in Thailand.

 

Also, the bars in Patong Beach are the only ones that I know of that also provide free room and free meals to the staff. Smart boys will steer far clear of the free room and board option and instead get their own place and provide their own meals.

 

Some would argue that the patronage system is a benefit to many of the bar staff in Phuket who are mostly well cared for by their patron bosses. Certainly, a number of poor ladyboys have financed their operations through that system. The more independent minded boys stay clear of the system there.

 

Pete