Death and lots of Danger Now?

[Guest HeyGay]

A rogue soldier and de facto military chief of Thailand's red shirt protest movement Shot Dead.

 

 

The chief military advisor of Thailand's anti-government protesters was injured in the head, after an explosion and bursts of automatic gunfire were heard near Bangkok's business district on Thursday night.Khattiya Sawasdipol, a suspended army specialist in charge of security at an encampment occupied by thousands of "red shirt" demonstrators, was admitted to an intensive care ward after being shot, said the state Narenthorn Emergency Medical Service.

 

Red shirt military advisor wounded in Thai capital - Yahoo! News

[Gaybutton]

Yes, the violence has really started now, and only within a couple hours of the beginning of the Thai government's most serious crackdown. The "Red-Shirt General", Seh Daeng, has been shot and apparently it is in the head. So far it is unknown who shot him or what his chances of survival might be. Even if he survives relatively unscathed, this is not going to sit well with the Red-Shirts. If he dies, it will be even worse.

 

This time the Thai government seems to be going ahead with the threats and they seem to mean business about dispersing the protests. Electricity, water, and transportation has been cut off around the protest area and the military has been authorized to use live ammunition. One can only hope that we're not looking at the beginning of a serious bloodbath.

 

I am also concerned that if the government succeeds in dispersing the Red-Shirts, that's when terrorist bombings and other forms of violence will see a marked increase.

__________

 

Outspokesn Red General Shot and in Critical Condition

 

An outspoken red shirt leader Lt Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol is shot and suffers a serious wound at the base of the head on Thursday.

 

He was reportedly being treated in intensive care unit at Hua Chiew Hospital. At 8.20pm, Seh Daeng is undergoing a CAT scan.

 

Reports said that he was shot in the head near Sala Daeng intersection while he was giving an interview to a Japanese reporter.

 

Outspokesn red general shot and in critical condition

____________________

 

Red Shirt Leader Shot as Unrest Continues in Thai Capital

 

By the CNN Wire Staff

May 13, 2010

 

Bangkok, Thailand (CNN) -- A leader of anti-government protests in Thailand was shot in the head while being interviewed at the demonstrations, according to the journalist who was with him at the time.

 

Seh Daeng was in critical condition, according to his guards with the Red Shirt protesters.

 

Tom Fuller of the International Herald Tribune told CNN he was interviewing Seh at the time of the shooting.

 

Witnesses said the gunshot appeared to come from a rooftop in a corner of Bangkok's Lumpini Park, where protesters have amassed.

 

While it was unknown whether Thailand's military or government was behind the shooting, the government has previously made it clear it would shoot at what it called armed terrorists.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/05/13/thailand.anti-government.protests/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

[bkkguy]

When the army started the crackdown on April 10 the first thing the black shirt snipers did was take out the key army leaders, it looks like someone has learned a lesson from this!

 

bkkguy

[Guest HeyGay]

Film of the shot Major, being carried away, this film is not for the screamish I warn you>?

 

If he is Not dead it would be a mirical for sure?

 

Red Shirt leader shot as unrest continues in Thai capital - CNN.com

 

Hundreds of Army Personal is now marching in to Bangkok Its War?

 

 

 

msnbc.com Video Player

[Guest]

I have had several e-mails from friends in USA (they don't keep up with Thai politics) and asked if I was OK as they said, "the protesters are being shot." Needless to say, this is the perception that the world media has given their listeners.

[Gaybutton]

The latest information is that Seh Daeng is in a coma. From the video HeyGay posted, it appears he was shot right through the center of his head. Apparently he was in a crowd when the shooting occurred, so it appears to be a sharpshooter assassination.

 

If he dies, then it certainly seems likely that it will be called murder. Of course, at this point no prognosis has been released, so it remains unknown whether he can be expected to survive or what kind of condition he will be left in if he does survive.

 

His daughter announced that he is in a coma and she also said that if he dies, she will decide what is to be done next.

[PattayaMale]

Thai TV had up a notice saying something like news of the protest is blocked on TV. So maybe they know more than we do??????

[bkkguy]

If he dies, then it certainly seems likely that it will be called murder.

 

by who - I thought " targeted killings" was the PC term preferred by the Americans, the Israelis and others?

 

bkkguy

[PattayaMale]

TAN Network has very good coverage of events.

[Gaybutton]

by who - I thought " targeted killings" was the PC term preferred by the Americans, the Israelis and others?

Maybe so, but your post is the first time I have ever seen or heard of that term.

 

As far as "by who," we won't know that until we hear it, will we?

[bkkguy]

Maybe so, but your post is the first time I have ever seen or heard of that term.

 

Wikipedia

"The United States views targeted killing during an armed conflict as the lawful right to use force "consistent with its inherent right to self-defense" under international law in response to the 9/11 attacks. Under domestic law, American targeted killings against 9/11-related entities is authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists"

 

New York Times

"The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki"

 

and even back to 2004 on the BBC

"Israel's 'targeted killings'

Israel has been killing those it considers a threat to its security for decades but, in the past few years, the policy has been stepped up as part of the government's attempts to stop suicide attacks. "

 

bkkguy

[Guest]

Wikipedia

"The United States views targeted killing during an armed conflict as the lawful right to use force "consistent with its inherent right to self-defense" under international law in response to the 9/11 attacks. Under domestic law, American targeted killings against 9/11-related entities is authorized by the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists"

 

New York Times

"The Obama administration has taken the extraordinary step of authorizing the targeted killing of an American citizen, the radical Muslim cleric Anwar al-Awlaki"

 

and even back to 2004 on the BBC

"Israel's 'targeted killings'

Israel has been killing those it considers a threat to its security for decades but, in the past few years, the policy has been stepped up as part of the government's attempts to stop suicide attacks. "

 

bkkguy

 

LOL The United States views gays as unworthy to serve in the Military. We all know what a bunch of nuts run that country. Where are you from BkkGuy? Let me guess..... hummm.......Palestine? jk

[Guest RichLB]

Thai TV had up a notice saying something like news of the protest is blocked on TV. So maybe they know more than we do??????

Channel 20 on TrueVisions and Aljazeera both seem to offer pretty good coverage of what's going on. But, you're right that the events from the stage no longer carries video - only Thai audio which my Thai is insufficient to understand.

[bkkguy]

We all know what a bunch of nuts run that country. Where are you from BkkGuy? Let me guess..... hummm.......Palestine? jk

 

where are you from? where is GB from? GB said in his original post re taking out Seh Daeng it "seems likely that it will be called murder" - he also claimed not to know the term "targeted killing" which surprised me as it is used so often by common news sources that I would have thought were accessible by even isolationist and uninformed Americans, and now that I have quoted some of these sources I must be a Palestinian?

 

and Americans wonder why the rest of the world thinks they are fucked^H^H^H^H^H^Hout of touch with reality!

 

bkkguy

[Guest]

Shooting the leaders is perfectly reasonable behaviour, if they are protesting disruptively AND refuse to disperse when asked AND have threatened violence (or worse).

 

I think all 3 of the criteria have been met, so the Thai army should press ahead & restore law & order.

[Gaybutton]

where are you from? where is GB from? GB said in his original post re taking out Seh Daeng it "seems likely that it will be called murder" - he also claimed not to know the term "targeted killing" which surprised me as it is used so often by common news sources that I would have thought were accessible by most Americans, and now that I have quoted some of these sources I must be a Palestinian?

I wouldn't refer to you as a Palestinian, but I would readily refer to you by a different two-word term, one that begins with "horse's." First, I never said the term doesn't exist. What I said was that I had never heard that term. And until your post, I never heard that term. Isn't that terrible?

 

You criticize me for saying that if Seh Daeng dies it would be called murder. Someone gunned him down for no apparent reason. If he dies, what the hell would you call it? I'm no fan of Seh Daeng, but when someone intentionally shoots and kills someone in an act that is by no means self defense, yes, I damned sure call that murder. If you want to come up with some euphemism for it, that's your business. I can't wait to see you justify the shooting.

 

You have a very interesting way of including insults and put-downs with your information, and then you cry about it when you get insulted right back. Explain the necessity of "where are you from? where is GB from?" and "I would have thought were accessible by even isolationist and uninformed Americans." Tell me all about how those aren't unnecessary put-downs. Well, keep it up. When I get good and sick of it, I think you already know what this isolationist and uninformed American is very likely to do about it . . . that is unless one of the other moderators beats me to it.

[bkkguy]

Shooting the leaders is perfectly reasonable behaviour, if they are protesting disruptively AND refuse to disperse when asked AND have threatened violence (or worse).

 

so one of the new moderators is a supporter of targeted killings - where does this leave him on the scale of Palestinian to "bunch of nuts"?

 

bkkguy

[Bob]

Shooting the leaders is perfectly reasonable behaviour, if they are protesting disruptively AND refuse to disperse when asked AND have threatened violence (or worse).

 

 

"Perfectly reasonable behavior?" Strange use of language and, in my view, way off the charts. I'm glad you're not making the rules where I live.

 

If somebody is shooting at you or taking action (e.g., throwing molotov cocktails or other actions designed to cause significant bodily injury), then shooting back is justified - and, in that situation, it's called self-defense or justifiable homicide (not "perfectly reasonable behavior"); otherwise, call it what you want but in the end it's called murder of some degree. The civilized world doesn't shoot protesters just because they're being disruptive, refuse to disperse, and/or verbally threaten violence.

[Guest josan]

"I thought " targeted killings" was the PC term preferred by the Americans, the Israelis and others?"

 

 

Yes, true, but remember where the Thai military sends some of their "officers" for training [retraining]! I believe the military base is called Fort Bragg, North Carolina, USA!

[Guest]

The civilized world doesn't shoot protesters just because they're being disruptive, refuse to disperse, and/or verbally threaten violence.

 

Clarification:

My original explanation was not quite complete -I'm not talking about low level violence.

What I meant by violence was something to the extent where the law enforcement authorities are at risk of significant injury (or worse) if they try and disperse the protest with modest and reasonable force. In such circumstances the law enforcement authorities should use more substantial force, rather than risk injury to their own innocent employees.

If the threat of violence is significant, it is fairer to shoot the leaders than risk injury to your own employees.

 

Civilised society should allow reasonable protest. What is happening in Thailand seems to have gone far beyond that. So it needs to be stopped.

When it is stopped, the risk of injury should be mainly on the side of the protest leaders, not the police or army. The latter are just doing their job.

[KhorTose]

Clarification:

Civilised society should allow reasonable protest. What is happening in Thailand seems to have gone far beyond that. So it needs to be stopped.

When it is stopped, the risk of injury should be mainly on the side of the protest leaders, not the police or army. The latter are just doing their job.

 

Sorry, Z909 I am totally with Bob on this. I do not think the protest has gone far beyond reasonable. Also, history is against you as governments and dictators around the world have arrested and killed protest leaders only to find they have made martyrs out of them, and seen the protesters turn to new, more violent leaders. The labor movement and other social reform movements are filled with examples of just this kind of tactic and the backfire that occurs. Only a complete dictatorship can succeed with this kind of tactic, and I am afraid that is where Thailand is headed. Would you be happy if Thailand became like Burma?

[Gaybutton]

Unfortunately, the violence in Bangkok has greatly escalated. There are reports of shots being fired. Soldiers are firing tear gas and rubber bullets at the protesters. Two newsmen, one foreign, have been wounded. Protesters are burning tires on Rama IV. Water and garbage trucks have been ordered to remain outside of the protest areas. All BTS trains will stop at 4:00pm.

 

There have been no further reports yet on Seh Daeng's condition. As far as we know at the moment, he is still alive.

 

So far, one death has been reported. A protester was shot and killed.

 

The situation is likely to change rapidly. We'll keep you informed as best as we can.

[Gaybutton]

Did you ever get the feeling that the sound trucks in Bangkok ought to be playing music from Gotterdammerung?

 

Sporadic explosions have been heard in the protest area. One car bomb has been found. 3 grenades were tossed at the Saladaeng BTS station. Protesters at Saladaeng placed Molotov cocktails into burning tires and rolled them at the soldiers. Traffic on Rama IV has been shut down.

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Red Shirts Toughen Demands

 

The red-shirt leaders Friday announced they would no longer compromise with the government and toughened their demands for the administration to comply with.

 

The red-shirt leaders demanded Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to meet the five demands as following:

 

1) The government must cease fire immediately.

 

2) The government must withdraw troops immediately.

 

3) The government must lift the state of emergency immediately.

 

4) The House must be dissolved immediately.

 

5) Abhisit and Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban must resign and must not be in the caretaker Cabinet.

 

Red shirts toughen demands

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Natthawut Warns Big Tragedy Will Happen Friday Night

 

Natthawut Saikua, a red-shirt leader, Friday demanded Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve the House immediately and pull out troops or a big tragedy will happen to the country at night.

 

"If the prime minister does not order ceasefire, tonight will likely see a big tragedy. It is likely that Thai people will be forever feel pain in their heart because of what will happen tonight," Natthawut said.

 

He said the prime minister must dissolve the House and stop using violence against the protesters.

 

He said he did not mean the red-shirt protesters would use violence but confusion could prevail at night.

 

Natthawut warns big tragedy will happen Friday night

[Guest]

Protesters at Saladaeng placed Molotov cocktails into burning tires and rolled them at the soldiers. Traffic on Rama IV has been shut down.

 

This is the type of protest that must be stopped. If requesting them to disperse does not work, then increased use of force is necessary. Otherwise you have anarchy.

 

If it reaches the point where law enforcement people are at risk, then making a suitable warning announcement and then taking our the ring leaders is morally better than risking the lives of army personnel.

 

Also, I believe the protesters recently occupied a hospital? Having not been there I don't understand the detail. However IF they were putting the lives of patients at significant risk by shutting down a hospital, then again this justifies stopping the protests with whatever force is necessary.

 

Just been watching some videos. They have razor wire in their barricades!!!

 

By all means protest, but do so in a civilised manner which does not inconvenience those who wish to continue life as normal.

[Gaybutton]

However IF they were putting the lives of patients at significant risk by shutting down a hospital, then again this justifies stopping the protests with whatever force is necessary.

I'm sure there will be differing opinions about justification, but the fact is that the Red-Shirts did take over a hospital and 5 patients died in the aftermath.