I offed a boy

[Jason1988]

This whole story seems pointless!

There are so many other boys in Pattaya that without much effort you

can find one that will treat you well provided you do the same for him.

Why on earth would you discuss this topic on a message board?

This makes absolutely no sense to me!

[Guest badcdn]

Unfortunately, you need to remember one thing; most boys are there do just do the deed and collect the money. A few will do the absolute bare minimum if anything at all if they can get away with it.

This isn't love, it's an exchange that usually benefits them if they can manipulate the situation and if you allow it. Some, but not all will try this.

 

I agree with Jason, offing a boy shouldn't take a lot of effort. If it does, the boy is definitely not worth it. This includes his phone ringing incessantly!

[macaroni21]

I, for one, would take ChristianPFC's story as it is and not poke holes in it. It was his first time offing a boy, and like most of us on our first time, he would not know much about customary expectations of buying a drink and tipping in the bar. I can also imagine that as a first time, he needed to settle his own nerves and feel his way forward, thus the long walk after offing the boy.

 

I suspect ChristianPFC is/was partly infatuated with the boy, thus returning to the bar with the bottle of whiskey, and the hope of seeing him on the next visit. How many of us can honestly claim we've never been in the same position?

 

The primary question that ChristianPFC wanted advice on was over the significance of the 3 a.m. phone call. On that, I believe the answer is clear. It appears to be unanimous opinion among others more experienced in the ways of barboys that it was a set up. As to why the boy set it up, we can speculate forever, and we'll never know. But it does not matter. The fact that the boy set it up indicates that the boy did not want to spend further time with ChristianPFC, and that should answer the key question. The boy is very unlikely to be looking forward to meeting ChristianPFC again.

 

It is up to ChristianPFC whether to call on the bar on his next visit, but my advice would be (1) not, (2) if you do, have the lowest of expectations.

[Guest gay_grampa]

@doug Bar closes at 2am

Where???

[Gaybutton]

It was his first time offing a boy, and like most of us on our first time, he would not know much about customary expectations of buying a drink and tipping in the bar.

I disagree with that part of your reply. It might have been his first time taking a boy off, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was his first time in the bars or his first time calling a boy over to sit with him. It also doesn't mean he was necessarily naive about how things are done in the bars. Because he wrote this post, if it is to be believed, then obviously he reads this board. It would be difficult for me to accept the idea that he could read this board and yet be so clueless when he decided to take the boy off.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

If I were Christian, I'd just stop flogging a dead horse and chalk it up to a lesson well-learnt...but then, some people just don't know when to give up - especially when hope springs eternal in the case of a good-looking bar boy whom as a newbie, you actually thought might have some (no matter how little) interest in you as a person and (even vainer hope) could actually want to see you again with the possibility of a (gasp!)relationship in mind.

 

Take it from the rest of us who've all been taken for a ride by bar boys, Christian, stop fantasising about how he might actually be waiting anxiously for you to call or go see him at the bar again. How much do you want to bet that he'll either NOT remember you in the least...or actually recall how easy a mark you were and try a similar trick with the hope of a similar (or better) reward again?

 

Harsh words and shattered dreams, I know. But then, I actually believe in a reality check.

[Guest fountainhall]

Harsh words and shattered dreams, I know. But then, I actually believe in a reality check.

And a very valuable one which will save further heartache and drain on expenses. I was in a bar last night where I had chatted with several guys whom I had met on more than one occasion only 6 weeks ago. Not one remembered me! (That may say more about me that the boys' memories, although I think not!)

[Guest joseph44]

Just some matters re. the fabulous Pattaya Boys:

- stack your valuables in a safe

- You need to shower together, never leave the boy out of sight

- Don't listen to mamasan: "He can do everything, but in fact, after entering the bedroom/house, he's like dead meat."

- TV and internet are far more interesting than making money

- the only 'sex' the most of the boys know is a quick handjob

- never take a boy for a night over, while there is a pop-concert somewhere in town.......

 

Some of my personal experiences...and yes, some of the precautions are based on common sense, but if I have to be so precautious when offing a boy, I better let it be.

[Guest]

I'll see if he is still there in summer, maybe I meet other boys, maybe I don't fancy him any more.

 

In the summer I would ignore him and find someone who doesn't take the mickey by leaving before the sex.

 

As for buying him a drink, well they often don't touch the drink that is purchased. The drink seems mainly for the benefit of the bar. I've even seen guys order a beer & then the mamasan over rules this to tell them what drink they are having. Next time, I may well intervene on this point -if I'm buying a drink, he should at least choose it.

 

I've never refused to buy a drink, but occasionally it's possible to quickly complete negotiations & pay the off fee before the subject comes up. As far as I can see the guys are very happy to exit the bar as quickly as possible. Perhaps this is due to bad experiences being groped by other farang in front of their friends ?

[Gaybutton]

the mamasan over rules this to tell them what drink they are having.

I never allow the mama-san to have anything to do with it. I invariably make the mama-san go away. I don't let the mama-san choose a boy for me. I don't let the mama-san sit with me. I don't have a conversation with the mama-san. I especially don't let the mama-san sit with me when I've called a boy over. I don't let the mama-san pressure me into anything. I don't buy a drink for the mama-san. I don't tip the mama-san unless I have specifically asked the mama-san to do something for me.

 

I can understand why the bars hire mama-sans to ride herd on the boys and deal with them and their problems. Other than that I've never really understood why the bars even have mama-sans to begin with. Sometimes I think the mama-sans are paid just to annoy the customers.

 

On rare occasions the mama-sans are truly helpful, but for the most part, to me anyway, they're nothing but a pain-in-the-ass and the only people they're interested in helping are themselves. I would be much happier in the bars if the mama-sans were instructed to take care of the boys, but forbidden to interact with the customers at all unless the customer asks.

 

In many cases the mama-sans push certain boys at you, to the exclusion of other boys, because those are the boys who turn over part of their tip to the mama-san. That is another reason why if the mama-san tries to push a boy on me, unless it is the very same boy I would have chosen myself, I refuse and tell the mama-san to leave me alone.

 

As you can see, I'm a real fan of the mama-sans . . .

[ChristianPFC]

This was my second holiday in Thailand and I read about the scene and I visited some bars in Bkk and Pattaya before and had some boys sitting with me. I would never grope a boy in a bar or in public, only put my hand on his knee or shoulder in the bar and even this is only to improve understanding during conversation ;-).

 

I read somewhere it is acceptable not to buy a drink, but to tip the boy instead.

 

citing z909 "well they often don't touch the drink that is purchased." That leads to the idea: They re-use the drink for the whole evening!

 

No infatuation, no hope of friendship or relationship with this boy (he is not gay!). That's not what I'm looking for in bar.

 

I think we got to the core of the matter: that the call was set up. Why and how, we will never find out. Thanks to anyone for their contribution. I hope the next time will be more successful

 

@gaybutton: I remember my second vitit in a bar in Bkk in January. Mamasan told me she remembered me (maybe she tells everyone and is right most of the time) and recommended the same boy she recommended on my first visit in August!

[Guest]

I'm pretty much in agreement with Gaybuttons's assessment of Mamasans, although if anything it's a little too favourable.

 

There is only one case where I ever find them to be useful is translation. Even then only if there's no other way to break the language barrier.

[Guest RichLB]

Since we're expanding the thread to deal with other issues let me share my opinions.

 

On the issue of buying drinks for the guys. In many bars if the boy orders a beer or a soft drink he gets a cut of the bill - usually 10 or 20 baht. If he orders a cocktail he gets nothing. That may explain why the mamasan intervenes (to remind the boy of the rules if he is new to the bar) and also why a drink may be ordered and never touched.

 

In terms of the sexual issue, I've found it useful to ask the boy, "What do you like to do with a farang?" If he responds, "I do everything," I laugh and tell him that that was not what I asked. I want to know what he actually enjoys. The result is usually a look of confusion followed by a candid answer. So far, collecting this information has avoided disappointment and awkwardness in the bedroom.

 

As to the mamasans and their utility... My understanding is that they are really not there to serve customers; they are more on-site personnel managers. Their job is to keep track of the boys, time their dinner breaks, assure that proper rotation of the dancers takes place, fining guys who arrive to work late or not at all, etc. I've heard some mamasans are wicked and often cheat the guys out of tips, their share of off fees, and even demand a cut of the tip from a short time. I think this is rare, but it does happen.

 

And finally, I disagree about the possibility of developing friendships with the working boys. Just as with anyone, some will truly be good friends and some will be exploiters. My advice is to put your brain in gear to overrule your heart.

[Guest piccolomini]

I made a similar experience in wild west bar in November last year. After having sex with a offed boy a man (he said the brother) called me and said to me in English that the boy's mother is in hospital in Bangkok and he must go now. We had agreed longtime. I am sure it was a lie because I have seen him the next night in the club.

[ChristianPFC]

I was back for holiday in Pattaya a week ago and came across that bar. I even went in to check if some boys I saw in January are still appealing to me. The one I offed was not there. On leaving, Mamasan called me back. She remembered me: "You were here long time ago and gave bottle of whisky. Your friend is at home now. I tell him you came to visit him." That's amazing! After 5 months she still remembers. Probably there are not many farang that bring a bottle of whisky to a bar and give it to a boy.

[Guest kjun12]

Then, my friend, you don't know how things work in the bars here. If you called him over to sit with you, then buying the boy a drink and tipping him is exactly what you are expected to do.

I do not agree with this and do not practice it. This may be a Pattaya belief but it is certainly not so in every bar there and not in Bangkok.

[Gaybutton]

I do not agree with this and do not practice it.

That leaves three possibilities that you do practice when you call a boy over, whether Bangkok, Pattaya, or wherever:

 

1. You call a boy over, buy a drink for him, but do not tip him.

2. You call a boy over, do not buy a drink for him, but do tip him.

3. You call a boy over, but neither buy a drink for him nor tip him.

 

Which of those is your practice?

[Bob]

While I don't know what any particular person's practice may be, I do agree with GB that a customer who calls a boy over to his table is clearly expected to do something for the boy. My practice (admittedly limited in the last many years since I've been "hitched") is to buy him a drink and also provide him with at least a minimal tip (a couple of hundred baht or so).

[firecat69]

While I don't know what any particular person's practice may be, I do agree with GB that a customer who calls a boy over to his table is clearly expected to do something for the boy. My practice (admittedly limited in the last many years since I've been "hitched") is to buy him a drink and also provide him with at least a minimal tip (a couple of hundred baht or so).

 

I believe this is completely variable depending on where you are. In Bangkok on Soi Twilight., I almost never buy a boy a drink . If those robbers think I am going to pay 300 baht for a 2 ounce glass of coke for a boy after they have already robbed me for 300 baht for a 6 baht bottle of water, they have another thing coming. I would much rather tip the boy and the tip will be dependent on how much time I take of his. If i determine right away that he is not what I want , he gets a 100 baht. If I spend more then 5 minutes with him but for some reason don't off him that night , he will get 200 or more depending on how long I have taken him out of the rotation.

 

Pattaya is different. Since drinks are much more reasonable then Bangkok, I find my self buying a drink especially at Krazy Dragon or Happy Boys where the drinks are 99 baht. But even then I may spend a minute talking to the boy and discover he is not compatible and I will just tip him with no drink. In many cases I would prefer to give the boy the money rather then buy him a drink.

 

I have to admit if it is a favorite bar where I believe the customer is treated with respect such as Funnyboys , I will be much more likely to immediately buy the boy a drink . If it is a bar where the restrooms are dirty and the music too loud, and smoking is allowed it is unlikely that I will buy the boy a drink.

[Gaybutton]

If those robbers think I am going to pay 300 baht for a 2 ounce glass of coke for a boy after they have already robbed me for 300 baht for a 6 baht bottle of water, they have another thing coming.

I have not been to those bars in quite some time. That is the reason why. If that is typical of Bangkok prices these days, then I can understand why you would not buy drinks for the boys. I suppose people have their reasons for going to those bars, but I won't have to worry about paying those kinds of prices. I won't go to any of those bars in the first place.

 

The next question, then, is not why you would go to those bars, but why you would call a boy to sit with you at all. You might not want to pay that kind of a price to buy a drink for the boy, which is tantamount to paying the bar 300 baht just to have the boy sit with you, but that does not alter the fact that buying a drink for the boy is the expectation, whether you wish to comply with that expectation or not, isn't it? If buying a drink for a boy you call over is not the expectation, then something has changed.

[firecat69]

buying a drink for the boy is the expectation, whether you wish to comply with that expectation or not, isn't it? If buying a drink for a boy you call over is not the expectation, then something has changed.

I could care less what the expectation is. I am the Customer. If the mamasan asks I say no and if she persisits which is amost never I tell her because her Bar is greedy and I would rather give money to the boy which also of course is what the boy wants. Do you think the boy wants 20 or 40 baht from the drink I buy him or 100 baht from me in his hand?? In Bangkok that is an extra 150-200 baht left in my pocket. As to the reason people go to those bars in Bangkok. Simple!!! It is the only game in town with one or two exceptions like Solid.

 

I still have no idea why you think that the Bar even in Pattaya should expect that I will buy the Boy a drink. They should hope that I will off the Boy and they will get their off fee and they should be happy that I have stayed long enough to talk to a boy which means they might sell me a 2nd drink. The boy would like to make money and he would much rather get the cost of the drink in his hand then the actual drink.

 

Again I will restate that if it is a Bar that respects the customer by having clean toilets, music levels that are bearable, no smoking, fairly priced drinks and mamasans that don't pester you then it is much more likely I will buy the boy a drink in an effort to support the Bar.

 

Now how many bars in Pattaya do you think meet my Criteria??? Not many!!!!!

[Guest fountainhall]

I still have no idea why you think that the Bar even in Pattaya should expect that I will buy the Boy a drink.

Well, one reason is that the bars have to make quite a lot of money these days. If not, they go out of business. I agree entirely that the cost of drinks in the Soi Twilight bars in Bangkok is outrageously high. But then so I believe are the rents and the commissions to the boys in blue. Personally I think they would all be much better off lowering the prices substantially and employing other marketing ideas which have been discussed on other threads. But we know it's unlikely they will do that. So more bars, like Future Boys, are going to go out of business - in my view.

 

For your drink, you have the opportunity of seeing a bunch of guys up there on the stage, some probably cute and attractive. If you are like most punters, you make the drink last and so you see a show as well. You are in a venue that has had some money spent on it to tart it up, and it probably has some fairly expensive light and sound equipment. I'm not sure if the boys get paid any basic wage, but I'm pretty sure the mamasan, bar staff, waiters and touts will get something. Try to find a similar form of entertainment in most other countries. You can't. So there is also what you could term an 'exclusivity value' element here. I frankly doubt that the profit from a Bt.300 drink will cover all that lot (is it really that much now? last time I was there about 3 months ago the top price I paid was Bt. 240).

 

So despite the high price, I really don't think it is unreasonable to expect a customer to buy the boy a drink and then give him a tip on top if he sits with you for more than a minimum amount of time. My only exception would be if you are there for just a few minutes whilst you check out the venue and the boys. After all, as you yourself have said, you don't have to go to Soi Twilight. You have been to Solid. There are several other bars near there with prices a lot lower than Soi Twilight. But, apart from Tawan, don't expect much in the way of decoration, sound, lighting, the number of boys or a show - because their bar prices won't cover these.

[firecat69]

Well, one reason is that the bars have to make quite a lot of money these days. If not, they go out of business. I agree entirely that the cost of drinks in the Soi Twilight bars in Bangkok is outrageously high. But then so I believe are the rents and the commissions to the boys in blue. Personally I think they would all be much better off lowering the prices substantially and employing other marketing ideas which have been discussed on other threads. But we know it's unlikely they will do that. So more bars, like Future Boys, are going to go out of business - in my view.

 

For your drink, you have the opportunity of seeing a bunch of guys up there on the stage, some probably cute and attractive. If you are like most punters, you make the drink last and so you see a show as well. You are in a venue that has had some money spent on it to tart it up, and it probably has some fairly expensive light and sound equipment. I'm not sure if the boys get paid any basic wage, but I'm pretty sure the mamasan, bar staff, waiters and touts will get something. Try to find a similar form of entertainment in most other countries. You can't. So there is also what you could term an 'exclusivity value' element here. I frankly doubt that the profit from a Bt.300 drink will cover all that lot (is it really that much now? last time I was there about 3 months ago the top price I paid was Bt. 240).

 

So despite the high price, I really don't think it is unreasonable to expect a customer to buy the boy a drink and then give him a tip on top if he sits with you for more than a minimum amount of time. My only exception would be if you are there for just a few minutes whilst you check out the venue and the boys. After all, as you yourself have said, you don't have to go to Soi Twilight. You have been to Solid. There are several other bars near there with prices a lot lower than Soi Twilight. But, apart from Tawan, don't expect much in the way of decoration, sound, lighting, the number of boys or a show - because their bar prices won't cover these.

 

 

I am sorry but your argument does not make sense to me.

 

1. I don't care what it costs in other countries. I am in Thailand and I don't like to be ripped off so I adjust my spending to minimize how much I am ripped off. And by the way there are now and have been Nude Boy Bars in Montreal and Washington DC and Ft Lauderdale, Prague, Rio etc that in most cases are much nicer and the drink prices are actually less. Sure if the boy goes home with you it will cost more but your argument for buying drinks is the entertainment and the decorations, sound system etc. As far as Shows go, I walk out when the show starts.

 

2. If hundreds of Lady Bars can provide entertainment, nice decorations , pay the cops etc and sell drinks for 1/2 the price and make money then the greedy owners of the bars in Soi Twilight could also. Fact is until Future Boys closed not a single Bar had closed in years and the reason is that they have all been making a fortune charging exorbitant prices.

 

I go there sometimes but much less then before but spend the minimum in the bar that I can . That does not reflect what I may tip the boy or pay him should I off him. But any money that goes directly to the Greedy Bar owners , i will keep to the absolute minimum.

 

 

If you chose to throw your money away buying 250-300 baht 2 ounce glasses of coke for boys then it is your money but I assure you I will not.

[Guest]

2. If hundreds of Lady Bars can provide entertainment, nice decorations , pay the cops etc and sell drinks for 1/2 the price and make money then the greedy owners of the bars in Soi Twilight could also.

 

Now now Firecat. Don't hold back. Tell us what you really think of these bars.

[Guest fountainhall]

I am sorry but your argument does not make sense to me.

Fair enough. I really have no idea of the economics of the Soi Twilight bars, and I visit them rarely nowadays. LIke you, I prefer somewhere quieter and without a show - like Solid. I certainly have no desire to set myself up as an apologist for them. I merely think there are reasons which should be considered - apart from ripping off the punters.

 

. . . but your argument for buying drinks is the entertainment and the decorations, sound system etc. As far as Shows go, I walk out when the show starts.

Nevertheless, whether you stay to see them or not, they still have to be paid for. I have no experience of other countries (apart from decades ago in The Philippines) , and so cannot comment. I happily take your word. I used to enjoy them a lot when Soi Twilight was far less organised than it is now. Like you, I now dislike them and also walk out. On the other hand, my Thai and visiting Asian friends seem to enjoy them hugely and time their visits to the bars to coincide with show times.

 

I think you are not quite correct in saying Future Boys is the first bar to have closed. Others have indeed closed - remember X-treme and other more recent ones? - but all were almost immediately taken over by another managements.

 

Your point about the girly bars is well taken. However, would you not agree that there is a far larger client pool for such bars than for the gay go-go bars? So I suppose there is a greater chance of their being able to generate more bar sales and more offs. Certainly when a friend and I walked around the Soi Nana area searching for the ladyboy bars and mistakenly looked into a number of other bars by mistake, all were packed.