I offed a boy

[ChristianPFC]

I was in Pattaya in January for holiday and offed a boy from a bar in boyztown, my first offing. I had him sit with me first (no drink, I tipped him 100Baht instead) and came back later to pay the bar fine and take him with me (I was not sure at first). We didn’t discuss short or long stay or what he does, as this was my first offing I just wanted to see how things develop. Mamasan told me that he forgot his ID-card, but he had a copy so we went to my hotel to check if copy is ok. It was, but I wanted to enjoy his company outside of bed, so we went for a walk in Pattaya (about 1h) and chatted a bit, his English was limited, but he understood what I said. He is not gay. (I: “Do you like boys or girls?” He: “I like girls”) When we were back at my hotel, he switched on the aircon and TV, I went to the bathroom and just when I wanted to start undressing him Mamasan called him and soon he reached me his phone and Mamasan told me that he has to go back now because mother is in hospital and he has to visit her the following morning. I paid him 500Baht (that was all I had left at the time, I went to money change the following morning and had planned to pay him after inviting him for breakfast and changing money) and said goodby. The closest we got was when I put my hand on his shoulder in the bar.

 

Two days later my stay in Pattaya ended and I had a bottle of whisky (Johnny Walker red label for about 700Baht) left (which I bought with a Thai friend for a night in NAB, but I don’t drink at all and he drank only a bit). I didn’t know what to do with it, so I went to his bar at 1:55am and asked for him, it was his day off but Mamasan called him and he arrived some minutes later on his motorbike. I gave him the bottle and said goodby.

 

What I would like to know: Was the forgotten ID-card and Mamasan’s call a Thai way of saying “No” (to whatever) with saving face or do things like this really happen? Is it ok to give opened bottles as a gift? Should I take him again on my next holiday and hope we can proceed further?

 

(In case this is important: I’m only ten years older than he and I showered and brushed my teeth before I went bar-hopping.)

[kokopelli]

 

What I would like to know: Was the forgotten ID-card and Mamasan’s call a Thai way of saying “No” (to whatever) with saving face or do things like this really happen? Is it ok to give opened bottles as a gift? Should I take him again on my next holiday and hope we can proceed further?(

 

With all respect, you were a "sucker". He probably had another trick waiting for him at the bar. Forget the boy and f*** that mamasan.

[Guest]

Firstly I wouldn't go anywhere near him unless he has a valid ID card.

 

He's very lucky to have met a generous customer like you, who demands very little and tips generously.

 

On the first night of the next trip, I would go to a different bar, off a guy & take him straight back to your hotel for some action.

Don't tell him it's the first time, as he may assume you have no idea & try taking a few liberties.

 

Then on the second night, try the same thing at another bar.

[Gaybutton]

just when I wanted to start undressing him Mamasan called him and soon he reached me his phone and Mamasan told me that he has to go back now because mother is in hospital and he has to visit her the following morning.

Is it just me, or does anyone else find this part of the story a little strange? Since when do these boys get calls from the mama-sans after being taken off?

 

As a matter of fact, the entire story seems a little strange to me, not to mention the fact that all this supposedly took place in January and we're hearing about it in April.

 

However, assuming the story is true and this really happened, how do you know this wasn't a set-up? He has to go back now? Back where? The bar? I'll bet anything that he called the mama-san, if it really even was the mama-san, while you were in the bathroom. You don't find the timing of that just a wee bit convenient?

 

If you're not pulling our legs, then you were most likely conned into giving him money without him having to do a damned thing. And then you followed it up with a gift?

 

I'll accept that your story is true, but I sure as hell don't accept that his story was true. It's absurd. Just when the sex is about to happen he can no longer stay because he has to visit mama in the hospital the next day? He needed the mama-san to remind him of that, especially at just the right moment? And even if he really was going to visit mama in the hospital the next day, why would that cause him to be unable to stay with you long enough to 'take care you'?

 

If it were me I would have gotten rid of him quick and stayed rid of him. And most, if not all, of that 500 baht would have remained in my own wallet.

 

You ask if you should take him again on your next trip. Are you kidding me? My advice would be don't walk away from him, but run. The only way I would take him again would be if I want him to take me again.

[Guest RichLB]

Once again I find myself the voice of dissent. From what I read, it seems you really liked the guy and enjoyed his company. You spent considerable time with him in the bar, enjoyed walking around Pattaya for an hour and just talking together, and you must have felt good just being with him in your hotel room without jumping into the sack. An investment of 600 baht (100 in the bar and another 500 for his time afterward) does not seem excessive to me. Clearly, you liked the guy and he must have liked you or he would not have gone with you in the first place or would have created a more plausible excuse to end the evening sooner. My advice is if you want to see him on your next visit, do so. But, if your interest in him is mainly sex, make that clear from the outset; if you want to engage in a relationship where sex may develop "naturally", you'll have to show more initiative; or if you just want to become friends, be a friend.

 

In my experience, I've made some great friends from bar guys. One of my good buds here in Pattaya used to work in a bar and when I asked him initially what he liked to do with a farang his answer was "nothing". I was so disarmed by his candor I offed him, spent the evening walking and laughing around Pattaya, introduced him to my Thai boyfriend, and we have become great friends for over 7 years now - and have never had sex together. Another good friend developed when he confessed he only had sex with farang for money (and, yes, that included me) and was married. Upon discovering all that, our sexual relationship ended, but our friendship blossomed and he considers me his farang Papa and I think of him as my Thai son. Money is not a part of our friendship and he now works as a motorcycle taxi driver and does not go with farang. The point I'm making is that friendships are possible with the guys and can be rewarding. In fact, my view is that sex is easy to get in Pattaya, but friendships with Thais are actually more fulfilling.

 

I do agree, though, that your guy's "bail out" device (the call from the supposed mamasan about his mother) is pretty flimsy, but I don't put him down for thinking ahead by creating a safety valve. In fact, I applaud him for exercising such foresight. In short, if you want to see him again next trip, go for it.

[Guest]

Once again I find myself the voice of dissent. From what I read, it seems you really liked the guy and enjoyed his company.

You will probably like the next guy and the one after that too. With any luck, the next ones will take care of you, rather than trying to take advantage.

[Guest joseph44]

"Mamasan" is probably the boy's wife or girlfriend or maybe even the mother of his child

 

This is one example of why I look at the boys as if they're all cheaters, thieves, liars and scum. Sorry for that. I rarely go out anymore and if I go out, I just can't look anyone straight in the eyes anymore. Usually, after a cup of coffee or a soft-drink, I get bored and return home.

 

Sounds a bit frustrated and sure I am, regarding this part of Thailand. After almost 7 years and several "partner-attempts" I've learned my bit.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

You just have to be careful where you look. If you want an honest decent guy your chances are slim that you will find him selling himself in a go go bar.

[Gaybutton]

This is one example of why I look at the boys as if they're all cheaters, thieves, liars and scum.

I can appreciate why you feel that way, but I think you might be carrying things a little too far. I truly believe that while there are many who are just as you describe, there are many more who want to make money by working in the bars, but they're not out to cheat or steal from people to get it.

 

The problem is the difficulty in determining who the "rotten apples" are. Too many people find out who they are the hard way. We've gone over the common sense precautions on this board many times. If you take the precautions and use common sense, then you should be fine.

[Guest jomtien]

Technical question: Is it possible for me (or a poster) to edit posts after they are posted? Or does the board now offer miraculous spelling corrections? Just curious.

[ChristianPFC]

Thanks for your responses. I didn

[Guest RichLB]

This is one example of why I look at the boys as if they're all cheaters, thieves, liars and scum. Sorry for that.

 

If that's really how you feel, I think you're cheating yourself. Yeah, it's true there are some scoundrels out there - Thai and farang both. My experience is that people usually rise (or sink) to meet the expectations of others. Could it be that you had one or two bad experiences and generalized from that? If you did, it could very well be that you are creating the very conditions you abhor. Truthfully, in the 11 years I've lived in Thailand I can't remember a single occasion where I have been cheated or had anything stolen by a gogo boy. I do admit that "truth" is often sacrificed in the pursuit of profit But, hey, they are most likely just telling me what I want to hear and since it's usually just a fantasy encounter who the hell cares.

[Guest]

Guys offed from the bars are mostly charming. They usually also hop into bed when asked, rather than having a friend phone to rescue them.

 

Of course they tell fibs about how sexy their latest meal ticket looks, but that's much more palatable than hearing the truth & is just part of the service.

[Gaybutton]

Technical question: Is it possible for me (or a poster) to edit posts after they are posted? Or does the board now offer miraculous spelling corrections? Just curious.

You can edit your posts for a short period of time after writing them. I think for about a half hour.

[Gaybutton]

But I

[Guest Soi10Tom]

Gaybutton has hit the nail on the head IMHO. I agree with all he has said.

[kokopelli]

3 AM in the morning and the boy ends up with a 500 Baht tip? For sure he knew he had a loser on his hands and had the mamasan bail him out of a losing situation. GB sure hit the nail on the head with this one.

[Guest RichLB]

I still disagree with everyone. If the boy was with the farang until 3 AM, it seems to me the farang should have made his move before that. Face it, the guy is working and that long a time represented considerable opportunity costs to him. If I had been the guy, I would have left long before that.

[Gaybutton]

Face it, the guy is working and that long a time represented considerable opportunity costs to him.

How do you know? It could have been an overnight long-time off. And considering the number of offs boys are getting these days, I would have been after the bird-in-the-hand.

 

You're going to have to explain how a call at just the right moment, telling the boy he needs to leave because he's visiting mama in the hospital the next day, or what would make the mama-san think this boy even needed reminding, or even if he really was going to visit mama the next day why that should mean he needs to leave, makes even the remotest sense.

[Guest RichLB]

How do you know?

 

Of course none of us know. But from what the original poster said, it sounded like he was pretty vague in his objectives. What I got out of the post was that he met this guy in a bar and liked him well enough to offer him a tip in lieu of a drink. Then they left and walked around Pattaya and I assume they visited some other bars so it must have still been before 1 AM. Following that, they went to the hotel and sat around and talked and drank some more. How long would you expect a working boy to invest for 500 baht? The farang had plenty of time to initiate a sexual encounter, but elected to socialize instead. That's fine, if that's what he wanted.

 

As to the call from the mamasan, I also find that unlikely. My assumption is that the call was from a friend posing as a mamasan. I think it likely the friend had been waiting for the return of the boy to eat, to go partying, or to check on his welfare. To me, the ruse of the call coming from the mamasan was a distortion designed to allow for a face saving easy exit since it seemed unlikely after all that time that he was going to get out of there any time soon. I don't get the impression the boy was trying to reneg on any sexual promise - I think he got tired of waiting for it.

 

But, neither the boy or the farang seem all that bothered by the events. The farang returned to the bar to gift the boy with the openned bottle of booze the next day and he has inquired about the wisdom of seeing him again. I stand by my advice that if he wants to see him, do so; but be more direct with what he wants.

[Guest Doug]

What boy bar in Boystown with a mammasan is open at 1:55 am?

[Gaybutton]

I stand by my advice that if he wants to see him, do so

Maybe it would be a good idea to find out who the boy is and you go see him . . .

 

I take exception to a lot of what you're saying. First, I see nothing in either of ChristianPFC's posts that indicate the boy knew in advance how much he was going to get. Also, if somehow he did know in advance that he was only going to get 500 baht, then I doubt he would have gone off with him at all unless he was desperate for money.

 

It is possible the boy simply concluded that he was unlikely to get very much out of ChristianPFC. After all, he said it himself that he did not buy the boy a drink, but did give him a 100 baht tip. Isn't it the usual procedure, if you call a boy over to sit with you, to buy him a drink and give him 100 baht?

 

Have you ever heard of a mama-san calling a boy once he has been taken off, let alone at 3:00am? I haven't. It's pretty obvious to me that for whatever reason, as soon as ChristianPFC went to the bathroom, the boy arranged the call.

 

It's still strange, though. The boy must have had several opportunities during the evening to have a moment or two to be alone and make an arrangement for a call much earlier. If he's anything like every other Thai boy I know, then he probably received a few calls during the evening. They would have spoken Thai, so the boy easily could have made a call arrangement while knowing ChristianPFC wouldn't understand what was being said.

 

And if the boy simply wanted to get away from ChristianPFC, there must have been plenty of opportunities where he could easily have simply walked off.

 

The only scenario that makes any sense to me, if we're being told the truth and if we're being told the whole story, is that the boy really was enjoying the evening. But when it came time for sex he wanted to get out of it. He didn't walk off because he wanted to be paid. So, he came up with this trick and this excuse. And he got paid. Not much, but he got paid. So much for that old saying about how you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

One other possibility is that ChristianPFC might have inadvertently said or done something to upset the boy without realizing he had done so. That's happened to me and I'll bet it's happened to many farang. Has anyone reading this ever been in a situation in which suddenly the boy you were with got angry with you, and to this day you're still trying to figure out what you had said or done?

 

Certainly if ChristianPFC wants to see this boy again it's his decision. But given the number of boys available in Pattaya, if it were me I wouldn't. Of course we're not taking into consideration that the boy might reject going off with ChristianPFC when he returns.

 

Still, there is a lot about this story that just doesn't quite gel.

[ChristianPFC]

@doug Bar closes at 2am, so I went there shortly before in order not to disturb any customers, but there were none left, the boys were dressing and leaving.

 

The whole whisky-story might sound strange, but I don't drink and I was leaving for the airport the next morning so I was thinking what to do with the bottle, and giving it to him was the fastest and easiest way (even though I'm a teetotaller, I wouldn't pour alcohol away).

 

The boy did not know what we were going to do (well, even I didn't know what to do with this first off, although I had some ideas, definitely long-time and maybe even spend the next day together) nor how much I would tip him.

 

I guess any boy is happier with 100Baht tip instead of a drink. Buy drink and tip? I'm not sure, they are not thirsty, the drink is only a hidden form of tip, therefore I skip the drink.

 

He didn't get any calls while we were walking as far as I remember, or they were very short. I think I offed him around 1:30 and we were in town for about one hour. We didn't go to other bars, what's the point of going to other bars if you have a boy? No sitting and drinking in my hotel room, just going to toilet, brush teeth or use mouthwash (I don't remember), sat down on his side (on my bed, he was still watching TV), whe the call took place.

 

Citing Gaybutton: "might have inadvertently said or done something to upset the boy without realizing he had done so." I was hoping to get an explanation with an inter-cultural misunderstanding or something you don't do when in Thailand.

 

I'll see if he is still there in summer, maybe I meet other boys, maybe I don't fancy him any more. I even have his phone number and took three photos of him in Walking street (I asked him before if it's ok, however, he crossed his arms before his belly so it looks as if he's a bit unconfortable).

[kokopelli]

I guess any boy is happier with 100Baht tip instead of a drink. Buy drink and tip? I'm not sure, they are not thirsty, the drink is only a hidden form of tip, therefore I skip the drink.

 

Sorry Christian, but a tip and a drink are customary. The tip is Baht for the boy and the drink is Baht for the bar. It has nothing to do with them being thirsty, although some do enjoy a drink.

[Gaybutton]

I guess any boy is happier with 100Baht tip instead of a drink. Buy drink and tip? I'm not sure, they are not thirsty, the drink is only a hidden form of tip, therefore I skip the drink.

Then, my friend, you don't know how things work in the bars here. If you called him over to sit with you, then buying the boy a drink and tipping him is exactly what you are expected to do. He also will receive between 20 and 50 baht from the bar when you buy a drink for him. If you have some reason why you don't want to buy a drink for him, or at least offer to, then you should tip him 120 baht at minimum. If you were busy publicly groping and fondling him, then you ought to tip him a hell of a lot more than that.

 

Of course, if the boy came to sit with you uninvited, then you are under no obligation to buy him a drink or tip him anything at all. When bar boys try to do that to me, they never even get the chance to sit down. I shoo them away immediately. If a boy is going to sit next to me, get his drink, and also get a tip, it's going to be a boy I called over. It definitely won't be a boy who tried to force himself on me (unless, of course, I like him better than the boy I had in mind in the first place).

 

It's not the whiskey story that seems strange to me. It's the 3:00am call from the mama-san just when you happened to be in the bathroom. If you can't see that was a set-up, then you can't see the obvious.

 

I do, however, have one problem with the whiskey story. In your first post you said you were leaving two days later and you went back to the bar the next day just before 2:00am to give him the bottle. In your post above you said you were leaving the very next morning. Am I misunderstanding something or has your story changed? And why would you wait until nearly 2:00am to go out and give him a bottle of whiskey? What were you doing until then?

 

You took him off at 1:30am and were on the town until 3:00am. That part seems strange too. Why were you on the town at all, especially at that hour? Where did you take him? What was even still open? Whose idea was it to go on the town instead of to your room? Maybe you didn't go anywhere. Maybe you decided to just take a little 90 minute stroll beginning at 1:30am.

 

That 3:00am call from the mama-san was no coincidence. If the mama-san just happened to call at that moment, then it's the first time in the entire history of Pattaya that I've ever heard of a mama-san calling a boy at all once he's been taken off, much less a call to tell him he needs to leave his customer. And at that hour too. Sorry, but I don't buy that one. I'm not saying the call didn't take place. I'm saying you were bullshitted about the reason for the call. If I understood you correctly, the call was supposedly to remind the boy he needs to visit his mother in the hospital and he needs to leave. That's absurd.

 

It would be just as absurd if the call was to advise the boy that his mother is in the hospital and the boy had not known that earlier. If someone was calling to inform the boy, are you telling me that whoever it was would have placed the call to the mama-san instead of directly to the boy? The call would have had to come from someone who knows the boy, wouldn't it? Why would that person call the mama-san, but not the boy directly? Maybe because that person would have had the mama-san's telephone number, but would not have the boy's telephone number? I'd have a little problem buying that one too.

 

That's part of why I'm saying your story doesn't make much sense. Obviously I wasn't there, but my guess is the boy set up that call to get rid of you. He didn't just walk away because he wanted to try to get money out of you before leaving. I'm guessing that your idea of a fun night on the town was his idea of being bored shitless when all he really wanted to do was perform the obligatory sex, get his money, and see you later.

 

I could be wrong, but that's what I believe really happened. RichLB's advice is go ahead and see the boy again if you really liked him. My advice is find someone else.