TotallyOz Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 There is a thread on the site that has ventured off subject into the area of Fair Use for posting newspaper articles. I have been reading the thread and stayed out of it until I spoke to my friends in NYC (where I just happen to know a lot of crooks and lawyers). I just finished my conversation with a lawyer in USA. He said that few cases ever appear of Copyright Infringement where someone posts from a newspaper, but that it is possible and more papers are starting to pursue this. His firm deals with this on a regular basis and he said he has never seen a suit from a nNewspaper that would sue a site like ours as we are very small potatoes. That said, he did say that if they choose to sue, while they would not win, it would be very costly to pursue on our side and thus make the outcome irrelevant. He said the appropriate way to make these posts are to take a segment (approximately half of an article or less) and post it with a link that says something like, For the remaining article see: This creates incentive for users to go to the original source. Lastly, he said that if the above is done and there are comments on the content of the article from the original poster, there is no court that would ever see this as infringing on their rights. Naturally, he is referring to the laws in the USA and not Thailand.
Gaybutton Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 And, as I have already stated on that thread, we'll do it that way from now on.
bkkguy Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 He said that few cases ever appear of Copyright Infringement where someone posts from a newspaper, but that it is possible and more papers are starting to pursue this. yes more and more news sites are starting to pursue this - a point that I made in the other thread! his firm deals with this on a regular basis and he said he has never seen a suit from a Newspaper that would sue a site like ours as we are very small potatoes. so you will do the right thing because you are "small potatoes" and are not a likely legal target, or because it is the right thing to do? Lastly, he said that if the above is done and there are comments on the content of the article from the original poster, there is no court that would ever see this as infringing on their rights. I am really disappointed that the emphasis here seems to be on avoiding litigation rather than what is fair and reasonable in relation to current copyright law! bkkguy
Guest Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 so you will do the right thing because you are "small potatoes" and are not a likely legal target, or because it is the right thing to do? Does it matter? I am really disappointed that the emphasis here seems to be on avoiding litigation rather than what is fair and reasonable in relation to current copyright law! Not sure why you would be disappointed for this to be honest. Also not sure where you understood where I place any emphasis. I stated what I was told. What is fair and reasonable? There is more to this that you consider. When a link is posted here and on different threads, the site we are sending the link to is helped with SEO purposes because of that. They also get traffic from us. In my opinion that is worth its weight in GOLD. Do you consider what I suggested as fair and reasonable? If not, you don't have as full of an understand of this matter as I thought you did.
Gaybutton Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Does it matter? Of course it doesn't matter. Bkkguy can be as disappointed as he wants while he is being holier than thou about the "right thing to do," just as if the news item posts here ever caused a problem for anyone. Meanwhile, Bkkguy has been a member of this board and has been posting here for 4 years. Now, all of a sudden here he is with his campaign, having never said a word about it over the last 4 years, and we agreed to change the methods by which quoted items will appear here from now on after he pointed out and brought up the issue. As I said in the thread in which he originally brought this up, you really have to admire a man who won't take 'yes' for an answer.
bkkguy Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 Bkkguy can be as disappointed as he wants while he is being holier than thou about the "right thing to do," fortunately "holier than thou" is an expression that is flung about with gay abandon in many of the "neighborhood Pub or Tavern" that I bore people silly in when pontificating from my bar stool so I don't see this as a "personal attack" that I should report to a moderator! I will not take your "yes" as an answer is silence from now on bkkguy
Gaybutton Posted April 3, 2010 Posted April 3, 2010 I will not take your "yes" as an answer is silence from now on I can only hope that's a promise. Of course, if you want to break your silence some time to let us know why it took you 4 years to start this up, I, for one, am all ears.
bkkguy Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Of course, if you want to break your silence some time to let us know why it took you 4 years to start this up, I, for one, am all ears. two reasons - this has become a much more significant and widely discussed issue over the last 6 months (at least in the tech press) and recently here there seemed to be more and more posts on more and more threads with multiple news articles and it got very boring having to scroll past all this pasted text just so you can go back to being something other than ears! bkkguy
Guest fountainhall Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 recently here there seemed to be more and more posts on more and more threads with multiple news articles and it got very boring having to scroll past all this pasted text Aha! I detect a dose of self-interest here that I presume has nothing to do with the law
bkkguy Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Aha! I detect a dose of self-interest here that I presume has nothing to do with the law how many "non-fair use" pieces of text does it take to break a camel's back? I will put up with so much abuse of the law then I crack - look for news stories soon about a falung arrested in Bangkok for "pedestrian crossing rage", it will be me and before the "cone of silence" definitively descends or my bar stool collapses under the weight of the mixed metaphors I should perhaps sneak in an equally interesting quickie to GB - you have posted news stories for years based on your previous legal advice but now are willing to change this without seeming to know or care if I am right or wrong - why? bkkguy
Gaybutton Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 it got very boring having to scroll past all this pasted text Aha! So that's it. Next time I'll try to take into consideration whether you might be bored. Why don't you just admit that the real reason you stirred this up has nothing to do with your idea that our posting methods might be hurting those poor online publications or that you were only trying to save this poor old naive board from an infringement lawsuit? I don't even need to state the reason. It's totally obvious. I also think you are very well aware of another gay Thailand board that has a hell of a lot more cut-and-paste news items than this board ever did. Strange . . . I just had a look. I don't see any posts from you on that board about copyright infringement. Don't you want to save the publications from being victimized by that board too?
bkkguy Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Why don't you just admit that the real reason you stirred this up has nothing to do with your idea that our posting methods might be hurting those poor online publications or that you were only trying to save this poor old naive board from an infringement lawsuit? I couldn't care less whether you, GT or this forum where sued for infringement of copyright or not - I was trying to make you aware of the issues philosophically I believe that what you have been doing is depriving the legitimate copyright holders of the ability to make profit from the material they have invested good money in developing - you and fountainhall seem more interested in just trivializing the issue and GT seems more concerned with avoiding law suites so I really will just shut up and go away on this issue because in talking with fools you only get dragged down to their level! bkkguy
Guest Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 GT seems more concerned with avoiding law suites so I really will just shut up and go away on this issue because in talking with fools you only get dragged down to their level! Again, you are making more assumptions about me. You assume you know what I am more concerned with when in actuality you do not. Nor did you ever illicit a response from me on that. I am concerned with many things. I am concerned with being fair. I am concerned with not allowing people to abuse others on the board. I am concerned when I get boring as I don't want to bore you or others. I am concerned with the cologne I wore tonight. I could go on for hours and hours but I don't want to bore you. I'll just say that I have never considered your opinion to be that of a fool. Quite the opposite, I appreciate diverse opinions and civil debate. Nor do I consider anyone's elses opinion that of a fool. I try my best to balance many things on this site. My proposal to do as my lawyer in the USA suggested was the best solution I had for this issue. You seem to be too worried that I called him to ask for his legal advice and my choosing to go with his suggestions because I think they are right as opposed to me saying I need to do the same thing I have agreed to because you suggested something different. I have yet to see what your argument is. I have made a decision that is a good one and that is on firm legal standing IMHO. Am I now wrong because I made that decision by consulting someone who knows more than I?
Gaybutton Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 Am I now wrong because I made that decision by consulting someone who knows more than I? Of course not. And Bkkguy was merely trying to make us aware of the issue. Certainly that's all the poor, misunderstood man had in mind. Only that. Making us aware of the issue. And we followed his advice and changed the posting rules. And this guy still won't take 'yes' for an answer. Naturally now our motives for changing the policy are called into question: "GB - you have posted news stories for years based on your previous legal advice but now are willing to change this without seeming to know or care if I am right or wrong - why?" Unnnbelievable. How do you win with a guy like this? If we didn't change the policy, I'd still be under his fire. So, we changed the policy. And I'm still under his fire. You want reasons for the change? I'll give you four reasons. One is because my legal advice is over ten years old and until you came along it never occurred to me that ten year old advice may no longer be valid. Reason number two is because GT did check and recommended the policy we now use. Reason number three is the same reason I previously stated. It's much less of a pain to simply post a link. Reason number four was to shut you up. Well, that one worked great, didn't it? It has been my experience that when someone can't win a pointless argument and keeps coming up with posts that get more and more ridiculous, contradicts his own statements, and avoids responding to questions, that's usually when they start resorting to name calling. Now we're "fools." Good. That clears up the whole matter. I forgot all about the fact that I'm a fool. How foolish of me. Well, at least I'm only a fool. Whew! For a while there I was worried that I might be a damned fool.
Guest fountainhall Posted April 4, 2010 Posted April 4, 2010 you and fountainhall seem more interested in just trivializing the issue . . . so I really will just shut up and go away on this issue because in talking with fools you only get dragged down to their level! I seem to be missing part of the argument here. I provided evidence - and offered to provide more - which clearly shows that one entire worldwide industry quotes complete chunks of media reports/reviews etc. with zero legal consequences. And having talked to people in that industry in the UK and the USA in recent days, all agree that nothing will change in that respect under existing legislation. So who's the fool?
Guest lvdkeyes Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 Just accept the fact that some people are never happy and move on.
Gaybutton Posted April 5, 2010 Posted April 5, 2010 OK Ladies, it's time to stop! I agree. Enough is enough and now it's starting to get personal. Thread closed.
