Gay Romeo, Camfrog, and the bars

[Gaybutton]

Last evening I was talking with a friend who really is in a position to know what goes on with the bar scene in Pattaya. We were discussing the problems bars are having and we both think that part of the problem is that fewer gay farang are coming to Pattaya these days and they spend less money when they are here. For example, he said that many bars are noticing that the type of customer who had always been a two or three drink customer and would call a boy to sit with him and buy drinks for him too, now is more likely to nurse one drink for the time he is in the bar and if he calls a boy over at all, buys him only one drink.

 

He also said that the gay personals sites, the most popular being Gay Romeo and Camfrog, really are having an impact on the bars. I mentioned that I am a good example of that. Since moving here I stopped going to the bars all that often, and since meeting guys on the personals sites is so easy to do, and so many of the boys on these sites are also bar boys, now I go to the bars even less often. For me, I go to the bars about two to four times each month, and that's it. If I am in Bangkok, I don't go to the bars anymore at all.

 

His opinion is that the bars are going to have to come up with ways of competing with the gay personals sites if they are to thrive or, in some cases even survive. I am inclined to agree.

 

What do you think? I'm very interested in your observations and opinions.

[Guest fountainhall]

I totally agree. The old bar scene really has no alternative but adapt to changing circumstances - or suffer the consequences. Just like any other business, in fact. And it's not only the farang/Thai sites that are drawing custom away. Just as there are dozens of Thai-for-Thai saunas in Bangkok which farang rarely hear about, so there are dozens of Thai sites for hooking up. Add to that, as has been discussed on another thread, tolerance of these types of bars by society in general in Thailand may well be on the wane, which would be another nail in the coffin.

 

On a recent visit to Pattaya, I enjoyed Euroboys and Happy Boys most. Why? Because the boys really seemed to be having fun and giving the customers a good time. Both were busy over several nights and I saw quite a few customers purchasing several drinks. I certainly felt both gave far better value than any bar I have been to in Bangkok in recent years.

[Gaybutton]

tolerance of these types of bars by society in general in Thailand may well be on the wane, which would be another nail in the coffin.

I hope that is not the case. I haven't seen any indication of that, even with the bars that have the under-age boys. I believe those kinds of bar problems stem from foreign pressures and certain boys in brown who have their hands out. As far as the Thais themselves are concerned, the way I see it is that most don't care about the bar scene at all.

[firecat69]

As you know from my previous posts I totally agree. If a bar does not offer a fun atmosphere , why go?? Many of the boys who work in the bars are on Gayromeo and other sites . Plus there are many others who realize they don't want to be in the bars.

 

It takes some work to get used to using Gayromeo but once you have, the overall meeting is usually better.

 

Unlike the bar where the mamasan lies in many cases and the boys are interested in at least getting paid for an off, you can be very specific online with the boys.

 

You first tell them they better look like the pics so as not to get someone using another boys pics. You tell them exactly what you expect and if you don't get it they will not be paid. Many speak better English or use the translation programs and most of the time understand exactly what you want. If age is a question , you ask if they have ID and can even ask most to scan and send it to you if you are worried. If they are in internet cafe this is really easy.

 

Use simple phrases and words and they will get it.

 

In bangkok many of the more attractive boys have moved to the massage parlors. I think they have found it much more likely that they will see more then 1 customer in a shift then working at a gogo bar. In the last 3 months I have been to Soi Twilight only once. No reason to be ripped off with 300 baht drinks etc. The asian visitors are the only thing keeping those bars alive.

[Guest]

For a tourist who can comfortably afford to visit Thailand for 2~3 weeks a year, I figure money spent at the bars is money well spent. Why not enjoy yourself whilst in the country?

Other than the cost, what better way can there be to find a guy for some fun?

 

After carefully selecting good value accommodation, transport etc, my total holiday budget is still very modest.

 

Gay Romeo's much too like hard work for a short holiday.

Although I would undoubtedly it if residing in Thailand for much longer periods of time.

[lexusgs]

Agreed with most replies. There are some very good looking guys in some bars.

I've got to know a couple of guys really well. Both work in Boyztown and both

are consistently busy. Still quite a lot of tourists who spend well in the bars.

My friend works in Copa( I hope its ok to mention the bar name GB) and has been

really busy the last 5 months. Seems most tourists tend to take him for the full

one or two weeks and pay really well. So I guess some of the more well known places

will always survive....

[firecat69]

For a tourist who can comfortably afford to visit Thailand for 2~3 weeks a year, I figure money spent at the bars is money well spent. Why not enjoy yourself whilst in the country?

Other than the cost, what better way can there be to find a guy for some fun?

 

After carefully selecting good value accommodation, transport etc, my total holiday budget is still very modest.

 

Gay Romeo's much too like hard work for a short holiday.

Although I would undoubtedly it if residing in Thailand for much longer periods of time.

 

I understand your feelings and I certainly don't mean that you should not go to Bars. There are a few out there that do a good job and can be entertaining for a short time. However IMHO they are at least as much work as Gayromeo. First many are a waste of time and money either because the mamasans are a pain in the ass or the boys are not attractive or the bar is just plain boring. Every time you have a boy sit with you it costs you money in drinks or tips and many time you discover the boy is not what you want. Time to move to another bar and start the search all over again. Yes sometimes you get lucky in the first Bar you stop at but not often. And except for a very few Bars like Euro Boys or Krazy Dragon, can you really say you are being entertained????

 

Also there are for the most part, no bars to visit for at least 70% of every day where as Gayromeo has boys 24 hours a day.

 

I think most will have a better time if they partake in both possibilities. Support the bars that deserve it, which seem to be fewer and fewer and try places like Gayromeo once in awhile. Then you can have the best of both worlds.

[Guest fountainhall]

I hope that is not the case . . . As far as the Thais themselves are concerned, the way I see it is that most don't care about the bar scene at all.

I wonder if you ever got a copy of Alex Kerr's book Bangkok Found which we discussed a month or so ago in the thread What is a House of Prostitution? As I quoted from the book in that thread -

 

In time, the more outrageous forms that prostitution takes in Bangkok (sex shows, go-go bars with half naked boys or girls with numbers on their panties gyrating on tables) will disappear. For those things, Bangkok stands far out on the scale of what most cities in the world see as acceptable. I don

[Gaybutton]

My question was whether you agree or disagree with the premise that the bars are going to have to come up with ways to compete with the personals sites such as Camfrog and Gay Romeo.

 

As far as I can tell, everything is being discussed except my question.

[Guest fountainhall]

As far as I can tell, everything is being discussed except my question

I thought I'd answered it

 

I totally agree. The old bar scene really has no alternative but adapt to changing circumstances - or suffer the consequences. Just like any other business

[Gaybutton]

I thought I'd answered it

Yes, but you're not the only one posting on this thread.

[Guest jomtien]

Yes, but you're not the only one posting on this thread.

 

 

You should have told us answers were required!

 

My answer: No

[firecat69]

I don't think there is any doubt the Bars will have to change. The question becomes is there a Bar or Bars out there that are showing the way to change?

 

Euro Boys gets a lot of positive comments here and is it so hard to duplicate what they do? I don't think it is, but the owners of many of these Bars just don't get it.

 

How hard is it to make it mandatory that the boys dance and have fun and smile? The same boys who look bored on stage appear completely different at a Disco or Karaoke Club. Management is the problem. How hard is it to get a fast rotation of boys on stage?

 

How hard is it to play the music at a level that allows conversation? The answer is not very hard but, too many of these guys don't get it and that is why you see once popular Bars closing such as Jimmy Jimmy James and many others.

 

I think we will continue to see bars close and then hopefully the ones that are left will realize what they have to do in order to attract and retain customers. Some of these Bar owners need to go to Walking Street and see Lady Bars such as Angel Witch and get some new ideas.

 

If they don't then eventually they just all might cease to exist. Along with many others I am sure , that is something we don't want to see happen. But if it does we will be prepared to use sites such as Gayromeo.

[Guest gay_grampa]

The way to answer the question is this:

 

Take a look at yourself in the mirror just after taking a shower - front, side and (arthritis permitting) over the shoulder at the back.

Then put yourself in the mind of a go-go boy and say to yourself 'Would I want to 'have to' have sex with that image I have just seen?

Yes, some of the boys are desperate for money but there has to be a limit to the degradation they are willing to endure to get that money.

That is why on-line dating is flourishing. It gives the boys the choice to say NO. There is no pushy mamasan telling the boys that they must go; there is no peer pressure forcing the boy to go off with that 60 year old, 250lb barrel of lard and perform to his every whim.

 

Some go-go bars will survive but they will be the well managed and fun ones. They will not necessarily be the cheap ones or the ones with the greatest financial backing. They will be the ones where the boys feel that they are happy to work there. Guys who live in Bangkok or Pattaya don't go out to these bars every night ... that expensive and boring. Go-go bars are for tourists and people who like to look at the flesh 'once in a while'.

 

Go-go bars have become expensive and on-line dating is a cheap and fun alternative giving the customer a chance to interact with the boy without having to spend on drinks for himself and the boy, plus off fees and transportation. On-line dating has flourished not only for its convenience and relative cheapness but because trips out to go-go bars have become very expensive for a mediocre experience.

[Gaybutton]

You should have told us answers were required!

Strange. I was foolish enough to think "What do you think? I'm very interested in your observations and opinions" might have given you a clue.

 

"Nanny baby-kins should have told daddy-kins that he had to make potty-kins."

- Fincham, 'Von Ryan's Express'

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I agree that I would not want to have sex with someone who looks like me, but my bf does and he is NOT in it for the money, believe me.

[Guest HeyGay]

. I personally don

[Guest]

I understand your feelings and I certainly don't mean that you should not go to Bars. There are a few out there that do a good job and can be entertaining for a short time. However IMHO they are at least as much work as Gayromeo. First many are a waste of time and money either because the mamasans are a pain in the ass or the boys are not attractive or the bar is just plain boring. Every time you have a boy sit with you it costs you money in drinks or tips and many time you discover the boy is not what you want. Time to move to another bar and start the search all over again. Yes sometimes you get lucky in the first Bar you stop at but not often.

 

On arriving in BKK, I find the following process very easy:

 

1 Walk from hotel to CLASSIC BOYS.

2 Purchase drink, politely refuse Mamasan drink & tell Mamasan no advice is required at present.

3 Eye up talent on stage. There is plenty of choice. Pick one that looks nice, smiles and makes eye contact. If he's keen, a couple of nods & he will be over.

4 Purchase his drink.

5 Confirm he meets your requirements. If he doesn't speak much English, the Mamasan might be required at this point. Try a quick kiss.

6 Check ID card. Pay & leave.

 

At this point, I know what the guy looks like right now (not 5 years ago) and know what he claims to do in the bedroom.

Also we have established that he can bear to look at me & make physical contact.

There's no chance of him turning up late or not showing either.

The combination of having seen the ID card, taking him from a reputable bar & checking what he looks like means he's almost certainly an adult too.

 

All this is really easy.

 

 

For anyone with different tastes, it's easy enough to stick your head in every bar on the street for 30 seconds a go before deciding which one to drink in.

 

The other possibility is to enjoy slowly sampling many bars.

 

 

As for the other point, I've never considered gogo bars to be more unacceptable than any other form of prostitution.

If I was a long way from home and paid 4 times my usual daily salary, it would not be difficult to cavort around on stage in my swimwear.

The part I could never accept is being humped by some obese pensioner with bad breath and BO.

[Guest fountainhall]

That is why on-line dating is flourishing. It gives the boys the choice to say NO.

I think this is a very valid point.

[Guest]

Out of curiosity this weekend, I jumped on GayRomeo one night. In less than 4 hours, I had over 20 e-mails from locals wanting to meet. That is pretty good numbers IMHO. Also, I did notice that after 1AM the site gets much busier. The day times are also pretty good (at least when I tried on the weekend).

[Gaybutton]

I did notice that after 1AM the site gets much busier.

Of course! When the bars start closing for the night a lot of the boys head right to an Internet shop and get on Gay Romeo, Camfrog, etc. I've had more than one Internet shop manager tell me they do some of their best business between midnight and 3:00am.

[Guest FanOfThailand]

On my last visit to Pattaya the bars worked better for me than did camfrog/Romeo. I didn't bring a computer so have to rely on internet cafes which are open 24hrs but I didn't feel like sitting in a cafe for 3-5 hours waiting for mister "right" to happen to log on. I also didn't feel much like going out to a cafe at 2AM hoping to hook up with someone who I then have to wait for to show up.

 

I did try Romeo and had three meetings.

#1. Chatted a while and he gave me his cell number. He agreed to meet me at my hotel. He called back to delay 1 hour (ok). Called back to ask me to meet him in Sunee and I said no. The next day he calls again to say he will come to hotel (should have said no thanks) and again I wait. The lobby calls to tell me he was not 18, I tell them to send him away. Wasted so much time.

#2. Chatted and agreed to meet at my hotel the next day. He calls 30 minutes prior to the scheduled meeting time to say he is on the way and will be there in 15 minutes. He shows up in 10 minutes. Nice guy everything was fine but not quite as good looking as in the photos in IMHO. If I had seen him in person first I would probably not have picked him.

#3. Made contact through Romeo sending messages back and forth over a few days to find out where he works. This is a boy I had met briefly in person on a previous visit so I knew a little about him. Ended up meeting him at the bar where he works and had a wonderful time. Will see him again on my next visit.

 

As a visitor with "limited time" I find the bars work best for me because you can see 20-30+ boys in person wearing only briefs (hairy bodies turn me off). You can then from a physical standpoint pretty quickly size up who is a possible choice for the evening and who is not.

 

The few hundred baht I would have saved in dinks/off I would have to spend on the internet cafe. There is also the waiting and I hate the " will he show up or not" and will he look as good as the pictures. With the bars it's "what you see is what you get".

[Guest fountainhall]

There is also the waiting and I hate the " will he show up or not" and will he look as good as the pictures. With the bars it's "what you see is what you get"

Newbie makes perfectly valid points, here. Those living in Thailand are well aware of how Thais view the elasticity of time! A camfrog meeting I set up a couple of months ago resulted in the guy turning up more than 2 hours late - and accompanied by a friend. It was worth it in the end (having vetted me, the 2nd guy departed!), but it might have made me quite angry if I had had other things to do. People rarely turn up anywhere near the appointed time. You just have to allow at least a 30 minute 'delay'.

 

And like Newbie, I have on occasion found that 2-dimensional photos don't look very like the guy who has just presented himself - late! I'll always meet for a coffee first, and if the likeness is not right or the chemistry does not go well, that's will be it. I can see that a tourist working on a tighter schedule, however, will get annoyed when internet assignations do not turn out as hoped. The investment in the bars may be a bit more than "few hundred Baht" if more than one bar becomes necessary, but it will get the job done - not to put too fine a point on it!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

A friend had hired a worker to come do some repairs. He didn't show up so my friend hired someone else. Two weeks later the first worker showed up. My friend said, "You were supposed to be here two weeks ago." The worker replied, "I am here now."

[Gaybutton]

Yes, all valid points indeed. But the thing is that a lot of boys are discovering that they can make as much money, and often quite a bit more, by getting on Gay Romeo, Camfrog, etc. As more and more boys discover this, I can't help but wonder how this might eventually cause problems for the bars. If I was a boy and realized I could make more money by spending a little time on the Internet as opposed to working for several hours in a bar, appearing in my underwear in front of total strangers, most of whom don't take me off, I don't think I would have too much of a problem deciding where to spend my time.

 

Have a look at these sites during the times the bars are open. You'll find a good number of boys who otherwise might be working in the bars spending their time online instead.

 

That's why I'm saying the bars better give serious thought to start coping with this. I believe the Internet has plenty of potential to cause real problems for the bars.