The TRUTH about Sunee

[PattayaMale]

Actually I am a bit disappointed that those that know what is "going on" in Sunee have taken the attitude of not honestly saying what has been going on. So here is my theory based on extensive research.

 

Sunne has become a business threat to the competition. They organized under a single banner and started to increase dramatically their customer base. While a competing area was having some of the biggest downturn they have experienced, several Sunee bar owners were having very good months. The fact that they had organized was paying off. The competition noticed this. At first they thought this Sunee up turn would fizzle out so paid little attention. But when it did not fizzle, they thought something must be done.

 

Sunee had orgaized a great Lunar New Year and Valentines Day festival. many customers were looking forward to it. The festival was well advertised. AND THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.

 

The solution was for the competition to nudge the powerful to "look into" Sunee. So the powerful started visiting the Sunee bars and arresting and fining bars for the littlest of infractions. Infractions that when revealed will make people say "you gotta be kidding".

 

But this did spook some of the bar owners who had used to always like to stay out of the limelight. Stay under the radar. Not bring attention to their bars. Just use word of mouth. Some decided the publicity was bringing problems from the powerful into the area. Some felt it would be best to not go ahead with a festival and stop all talk about Sunee. Maybe this would take the pressure off and satisfy the competition who were better connected with the powerful.

 

So now you know. Why did people not want anything said about Sunee on the boards??? Now it should be clear.

 

The answer to is it safe to visit Sunee is of course yes. JUST DON"T TELL ANYONE.

[Gaybutton]

Some felt it would be best to not go ahead with a festival and stop all talk about Sunee.

If what you say is correct, then all that tactic seems to have actually accomplished was to get everybody talking about Sunee Plaza,much more than usual.

 

It just seems to me that a mountain is being made out of a molehill. If I understand correctly, you are saying that this whole brouhaha came about because of business competition?

 

I wish whatever needs to be settled would get settled already and let life and speculation get back to normal, if ever it was 'normal' to begin with.

[Guest RichLB]

An interesting theory and one of many I've toyed with. But, I just don't think it flies. I think Pattayland and Sunee appeal to very different markets with only a small overlap. Discouraging people from visiting either locale (or Jomtien) would likely hurt all businesses. It's more in the interest of gay owned venues to get us all out and about and eager to venture into every bar. You could, of course, be right and I have no way of knowing, but that scenario seems unlikely to me.

[Guest]

Very interesting concept. I will have to think on this one.

[Guest Astrrro]

I think Pattayland and Sunee appeal to very different markets with only a small overlap.

 

It sure applies to me. In the last two years I've had exactly zero drinks in Boyztown.

This also applies to most of my ladyboy loving mates while at the same time there's been many evenings where there'd be more than a dozen friends popping in and out where we're sitting at Corner Bar.

 

Sunee is geared to expats who just don't buy into tourist pricing and vote with their feet. Reasonable prices plus ladyboys makes Sunee a great place to visit for me, yeah I know many here are not big fans of ladyboys.

[Guest]

yeah I know many here are not big fans of ladyboys.

 

Hey, I love Gaybutton.

[Bob]

Hey, I love Gaybutton.

 

 

He does look rather fab in those red pump shoes.

 

While I've had the fortune/misfortune of not being anywhere near Pattaya, the seemingly insane "geez I've got to know" attitude about the latest secret goings-on has been actually pretty funny to me. Why is it we or some of us get all bent out of shape if we don't know the latest gossip about this or that - especially when it hardly makes any difference to what 99% of us will do today or tomorrow?

[Gaybutton]

He does look rather fab in those red pump shoes.

But of course. They ought to go well with my red bikini, don't you think?

 

[Guest Oogleman]

that needs sandals and socks and a fanny pack.

[Guest fountainhall]

Actually I am a bit disappointed that those that know what is "going on" in Sunee have taken the attitude of not honestly saying what has been going on

As am I. The constant reference to 'things that cannot be spoken' is, I think, somewhat ridiculous. I fully respect GB's position re the law and his stance on the issue. No-one wants anyone to get anywhere near to a court room. But there are surely ways for 'those in the know' to describe the situation in general terms and impart a general drift of what's going on without in any way being specific and naming names. If for any reason that is not possible (and I cannot believe that would be the case), then let's end these 'teasing' threads and get back to some real gossip

[Gaybutton]

I fully respect GB's position re the law and his stance on the issue. No-one wants anyone to get anywhere near to a court room. But there are surely ways for 'those in the know' to describe the situation

I won't say I'm in the know. I will say I'm in the "what I've been told" by a few who are in the "they think they're in the know." Does that garble it enough for you?

 

Gentlemen, please don't push it. I'm not about to reveal anything I've been told in confidence. If I did that I would be destroying my own credibility and trustworthiness. Besides, some of what I have been told is so ludicrous that I believe only small portions of it in the first place.

 

Even if you're someone much closer to me than most, if you try to place me in the kind of position tantamount to "awww come on, you can tell me" I guarantee you I'm not going to like it. So, please don't put me in that kind of situation. Some of you may already have noticed that I'm ignoring Emails and PMs asking me to tell it "just to them." Save your typing. You know what I'm doing with those? Deleting them without a response. And, if you see me personally and take me aside to ask, you're quickly going to find yourself standing there alone.

 

I don't think I'm stepping out of bounds by saying the most serious problems have now been amicably resolved. Again, there is no reason to avoid Sunee Plaza and if it wasn't for these posts you never would have known anything was ever out of the ordinary. I've already said that I think it was a mistake for anything to ever have been posted about any of this at all. None of it is any of our business, has nothing to do with us, and had no effect on your ability to safely enjoy Sunee Plaza. In other words, PattayaMale is right. It's just back fence gossip.

 

Anything beyond that will have to come from those who asked for my discretion.

 

I'm also not wasting my time by running around trying to find out anything more than I have already been told because:

 

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

- Clark Gable, 'Gone with the Wind'

[Guest fountainhall]

I appreciate your position, but can we now please lock these threads and get back to business as usual? Keeping them open is only going to fuel further fruitless speculation.

[Gaybutton]

I appreciate your position, but can we now please lock these threads and get back to business as usual? Keeping them open is only going to fuel further fruitless speculation.

That is GT's decision to make, not mine. GT is where the buck stops on this board.

[macaroni21]

I think Pattayland and Sunee appeal to very different markets with only a small overlap.

 

In general, I agree, but it may be much more dynamic than that. The bottomline though is that the chief competition for Pattayaland Soi 3 (Boyztown) is Soi Twilight in Bangkok. I believe I've said this before, but still I don't know whether the business owners of Boyztown realise this sufficiently.

 

Even in the early days, I remember Pattayaland Soi 1 and Soi 3 to be quite distinct. Soi 1 had (and still has) the smaller boys while Soi 3 tried to be the supermarket with a wide range of boys from small to beefy, and nightly shows at the Cockpit and Boyzboyzboyz. As Sunee developed, Soi 1 suffered, a decline that I have noticed from 5 - 10 years back. (What is the state of the bars there, can anyone update us?)

 

Yet, the desertion of Soi 1 probably has its effect on Soi 3. Didn't people who liked the Soi 1 type of boys also visit the Soi 3 bars for showtime? In other words, even if they didn't off the boys of Soi 3, I would think they still added revenue through buying drinks. But, as Sunee grew, the same people stayed all evening in Sunee instead. They went less and less to the bars of Soi 1, and lately, it appears that the shows of Jomtien are in a position to cannibalise Soi 3's shows too.

 

However, this effect, if any, would have been secondary to the chief competition - Soi Twilight.

 

Over the years, Soi Twilight has been adjusting to market trends while Soi 3 has stayed stagnant. The trends were these: The rise of Asian tourism and the plateauing of Western gay tourism. Asian tourists have different tastes. They prefer more masculine boys, and think that watching a cross-dressing cabaret performer is a waste of time.

 

Soi Twilight has gradually phased out the small queeny boys (only Classic Boys has them, and not even a majority anymore.) They've also ditched the queeny cabaret shows, and gone the whole hog with bold shows. The last remnant of femininity - using a femme guy in fuck shows - has now disappeared. Nowadays, they use a masculine guy as the bottom.

 

At Soi 3, they have stuck to the drag queen and cabaret formula, a formula that does not interest the typical Asian tourist. And of course, Pattaya has stricter enforcement against nudity. Hardly any wonder then that between staying in Bangkok for the bold shows and travelling to Pattaya to see drag queens, the increasingly numerous Asian tourists (and Westerners with similar tastes) stayed in Bangkok.

 

Yet the decline of Soi 3 could have been averted. Soi Twilight had two huge weaknesses - service quality by the boys once off'd and demands for money become worse and worse. Despite the handicap of not being able to put on bold shows, Soi 3 could have fought back on these two fronts to keep itself attractive, but I suspect they didn't know how (exceptions below).

 

For a while, Wild West Boys showed the way with its more energetic shows with a lower drag queen quotient, but it soon shot itself in the foot with a mamasan that was even worse than the worst of Soi Twilight's.

 

Then there's Funny Boys. Isn't it interesting that of all the bars in Soi 3, I think people will agree that Funny Boys is probably the only one that's still doing OK? It's the one with no shows and an attention to service - exactly the formula that is needed to hold one's own against Soi Twilight. Yet, my observation is that Funny Boys is getting more farang visitors than Asian, so by that measure, it is still not succeeding against Soi Twilight for the growing market. I guess, by itself, it can never. One bar cannot alone do it. The whole soi needs a critical mass.

[Guest shebavon]

But of course. They ought to go well with my red bikini, don't you think?

 

Looks like you are ready to shop at Walmart. Yikes, I think I need a drink.

[Guest travelerjim]

Looks like you are ready to shop at Walmart. Yikes, I think I need a drink.

 

GB.

 

I am a bit surprised ..with that promo pic...

that you let the "cat out of the bag" early...

so to speak...

 

Do not worry, you will do just fine in your new look

when you dance on stage with the waiters at

The Venue Cabaret Sunday night special shows for charity...

 

You look stunning!

 

tj

[Gaybutton]

You look stunning!

How much you give to me . . . ?

 

I'm flattered that you like it. Feel free to download it and use it for your avatar . . .

[PattayaMale]

I like the analysis by Marconi21.

 

A very good post I believe

[Guest cdnmatt]

I've stated this on another board, but briefly, I think it's simply that the Pattaya mayor and city council have now decided they've built up the family tourism industry enough, that it would now be more profitable for them to begin slowly clamping down on the sex tourism industry.

 

Nowadays, there's loads of families who come to Pattaya, looking for a quality beach vacation, and are willing to spend European prices for it (eg. 5000 baht/night for a hotel, 2000 baht for a meal, etc.). Whereas the vast majority of sex tourists don't live / vacation like that, not to mention, the majority of money sex tourists spend is black market. Hence, it's not traceable, and doesn't generate any tax revenue at all.

 

We all know Pattaya city has spent a long time building up the family tourism industry. Now I just think they've decided it's at the tipping point, where if they do things right, within five years family tourism will bring in much more money than sex tourism. That's why they're beginning to clamp down on the sex tourist aspects of Pattaya. Families with their 8 year old Johnnie's aren't impressed when they go for a walk, and see hookers all over the place.

[Guest]

Now I just think they've decided it's at the tipping point, where if they do things right, within five years family tourism will bring in much more money than sex tourism.

 

I think you are right on this cdnmatt.

[Gaybutton]

I think you are right on this cdnmatt.

I don't. My interpretation of what he is saying is that he believes the city powers-that-be have a "this town ain't big enough for the two of us" attitude when it comes to the sex industry and the family industry.

 

I don't see a thing in Pattaya that indicates much of an effort to attract families. To my mind, attracting families means attracting families with children. There is close to nothing in Pattaya that appears to me to be specifically geared for children or at least has children in mind as well as adults. There is Pattaya Park, one or two miniature golf places, a go-kart track, and some game rooms in a few of the shopping malls. Outside of that, I know of nothing else.

 

Maybe some of the most expensive hotels offer babysitting or other childcare services, but I have never seen any at most of the hotels. I haven't seen lifeguards at swimming pools or on the beaches, not even at Pattaya Park. I have seen only a very few restaurants offering children's menus.

 

The bars all over town are for children? Maybe some are for adults who behave like children, but what are parents supposed to do with their children when they want to go out for nighttime entertainment? I see no playgrounds. I see no kind of organized games or facilities for children who come to Pattaya with their families. I see little or nothing geared for visiting teenage children.

 

When I was a child, my parents would sometimes entertain the kids with games such as counting the birds we see on utility pole wires. In Pattaya they can play "Count the Prostitutes." If they're around Walking Street or Beach Road at night, the kids will certainly be able to improve their math skills. When I was a kid I would play "Spot the Spy" at airports. In Pattaya the kids can play "Spot the Pickpockets" on the baht buses.

 

So, where does "family oriented" fit into any aspect of Pattaya? Bar crackdowns translates into the city trying to make Pattaya more attractive to families? I don't see it, myself.

[Guest fountainhall]

We all know Pattaya city has spent a long time building up the family tourism industry. Now I just think they've decided it's at the tipping point, where if they do things right, within five years family tourism will bring in much more money than sex tourism. That's why they're beginning to clamp down on the sex tourist aspects of Pattaya.

I suspect this is only partly the reason, for Pattaya may be after an even bigger cash cow. I remember reading articles in the media over the last few years about how Pattaya wanted to improve its image and rebrand itself. It looked to places like Las Vegas which used to be almost exclusively for gambling but which now attracts huge numbers of families, people who go to see the amazing theatre shows, and - especially - the humungous convention business.

 

It also looked nearer home to Macao. 30 years ago, Macao was perhaps the most beautiful place in Asia - a 17th century Mediterranean enclave with wonderful little restaurants, fabulous cheap Portuguese wine and some attractive historical sites. But it had two problems. It made almost all its money from gambling, and the only access was by jetfoil from Hong Kong. It wanted to grow and develop. So, it built an airport (there are now 5 international airports radiating 150 kms from Hong Kong!) and eventually opened it up to people like Steve Wynn and Sheldon Adelson with the understanding that they could build their Sands and Wynn casinos and a Venetian that is double the size of the one in Las Vegas, provided they put in the infrastructure for entertainment (Cirque du Soleil has a permanent show there), more family tourism - and, crucially, the money-spinning convention business.

 

Initially, Chinese gamblers swamped the new facilities and Adelson took only 8 months or so to return his investment on the Sands. A couple of years ago, gaming revenues in Macao overtook those on the Strip in Las Vegas. More families are visiting and some conventions. It still has a long way to go, and I hope the Macanese are happy with what has happened, because this has all turned Macao into a glorified second rate theme park.

 

I am sure Pattaya is after this sort of rebranding, one in which sex will be an inconvenient side-show. Of course it will take years to achieve, and without gambling money, it's hard to see where the investment cash will come from. Sex may sell, but as cdnmatt points out, it generates precious little revenue for the city. I reckon one decent-sized convention per month would generate far more for the public coffers. It therefore seems a win-win situation - other than for those whose kick-backs from the sex industry will gradually reduce.

[Guest RichLB]

I find this a fascinating discussion, but can i suggest that GB or GayPattayan move the last couple posts to a new thread - something like The Future of Pattaya? I fear that the discussion will be missed with the current topic heading.

[Guest RichLB]

i wonder if this transition to a more family oriented destination is already taking place. I've agrued for years with my farang friends overseas that Pattaya has a lot to offer those not seeking sex. Beach activities abound - jet skiing, sail board rentals, banana boat rides, just lolling on the beach under umbrellas with food and drinks delivered to you, swimming in a protected bay (for the adventurous - or is it foolish), fishing, volleyball games, day trips to outlying islands, and a whole lot more. The city itself dishes up lots of venues appealing to teenagers also - bungy jumping, Flight of the Gibbon, swimming with dolphins at the Sanctuary of Truth, 3-wheel motorcycle excursions, horse back riding, elephant rides, go kart racing, miniature golf, lots of electronic game arcades, Pattaya Park, discos, karaoke, and lots and lots more. For the more sedate, there's the Alligator Farm, Floating Market, Mini Siam, shopping in Thai markets, and just plain walking the streets. I'm not even mentioning the huge selection of fantastic restaurants - many of them serving food cooked by expat 5 star chefs - at prices which bring smiles to even the most budget conscious.

 

My list could go on and on. I still argue that Pattaya is a fantastic family destination. It is not JUST for sex tourism although I think those venues are also a great attraction for all but the most moralistic blue noses. Pattaya sure as hell beats any of the places I used to go with my family in my youth.

[PattayaMale]

Pattaya has had most of what RichLB described for several years. Also many new hotels and resorts are being built. But I am not sure that would be the end of the type of gay scene and girl bars many of us have come to enjoy. I also believe that the city government is fully aware of how much money comes in from the entertainment side.

 

As we talk about the future of Pattaya, I still believe that gambling resorts will also open at some point. I believe they will be in the vicinity of Ambassador City.

 

Bangkok has sex areas like Pattaya. Business, Tourism, government, etc. all combine without excluding any sector. I think Pattaya is becoming the same