TotallyOz Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 What happened to the Sunee Plaza Info site? I am unable to access at my home. Is anyone else having problems? Quote
Guest HeyGay Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I have been informed that with the Increase of Bangkok Police and NGO Interest in and around Sunee Plaza at this time, they do not want to be raided or give Information away that could be used against any one. So at this time Nicky's and Sunee Info site will close. I must also say if you are a customer who is not involved with underage sex or drugs you have nothing to worry about and can go about your business with no chance of the authorities bothering you at all. Quote
Guest Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I have been informed that with the Increase of Bangkok Police and NGO Interest in and around Sunee Plaza at this time, they do not want to be raided or give Information away that could be used against any one. So at this time Nicky's and Sunee Info site will close. I guess that is their decision. I don't get it as the owner of the sites was doing nothing illegal or promoting anything illegal. Not sure what the raids or interest in the area had anything to do with the sites being closed. Perhaps it was more of a personal decision for them? Are things worse off in Pattaya than I have been told? I am in LA for the winter and really out of the loop. Are the bar owners who do comply with the law worried? Quote
Guest HeyGay Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 I guess that is their decision. I don't get it as the owner of the sites was doing nothing illegal or promoting anything illegal. Not sure what the raids or interest in the area had anything to do with the sites being closed. Perhaps it was more of a personal decision for them? Are things worse off in Pattaya than I have been told? I am in LA for the winter and really out of the loop. Are the bar owners who do comply with the law worried? No! I think there are just a few chains being rattled and they don’t want to be under the spot light, if the Powers that be really do want to make changes in the area, its all been going on around in a circle for years and every now and then, some one is pulled in as the Fall Guy, as I said if your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, even those taking away underage, very rarely get caught, unless they are seen regularly or taken on a Motor bike Taxi to there home. or a boy is pulled in and asked to look at photos of farangs they have been with. Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 11, 2010 Posted February 11, 2010 as I said if your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about I agree. Quote
kokopelli Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 , as I said if your not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about, Most reassuring! Quote
Guest Astrrro Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 New police chief starts his job on Monday. Word on the street is that there'll be lots of arrests for publicity purposes, not just limited to Sunee and the gay community. Quote
Guest Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 I have gotten e-mails from others suggesting that we follow the policy of other boards and do not allow any posts about Sunee. That is not a policy I am comfortable with. We will continue to allow all discussions that follow our guidelines. As I said, I don't really know what is going on in Sunee as I am not there but I do know that one of the biggest problem in the area sits in the same chair every night and fans the flames and gets others to do his bidding. Some people seem obsessed on the destruction of an individual as a vendetta. I don't understand that mentality. I hope it subsides as I hope the problems in the area subsides as well. Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 I have gotten e-mails from others suggesting that we follow the policy of other boards and do not allow any posts about Sunee. From what I understand, other boards are saying they will not permit posts that are unsubstantiated harmful gossip. That has been pretty much our policy on this board anyway. We don't want personal attacks on this board. We don't want businesses named and attacked without substantiation. We don't permit businesses, including bars, to be named and attacked because of the possibility of personal vendetta and the fact that Thai law would be violated. I live here. There's no way I'm ever going to permit posts that can place me in legal jeopardy. In other words, the policy of this board already handles the problems brought up on other boards and always has. Quote
Guest Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 We don't want personal attacks on this board. We don't want businesses named and attacked without substantiation. We don't permit businesses, including bars, to be named and attacked because of the possibility of personal vendetta and the fact that Thai law would be violated. I live here. There's no way I'm ever going to permit posts that can place me in legal jeopardy. Surely, you don't believe that a post on this board that is not owned by you can put you in any legal jeopardy? That seems to me on the impossible side as well and I'd put that on my "I don't get it list". Quote
Guest jomtien Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 We don't want personal attacks on this board. We don't want businesses named and attacked without substantiation. Well take all of the fun outta posting, why doncha!!??? Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 Surely, you don't believe that a post on this board that is not owned by you can put you in any legal jeopardy? That seems to me on the impossible side as well and I'd put that on my "I don't get it list". You're right. I don't believe it. Meanwhile, I'm the one living here and I'm the one who would have to face the consequences if it turns out that you're wrong. I don't want to have to find out the hard way. You're not suggesting we start violating Thai law, are you? If indeed you are wrong, what am I supposed to say to the judge? Me: "Well, Your Honor, I believed nothing would happen to me. So did the board owner. After all, I consider this board my baby." Judge: "Your baby? Congratulations, GB. You just gave birth to deportation, a heavy fine, and an all expenses paid holiday at the Bangkok Hilton, meals included." Besides, since when do you want personal attacks, gossip, innuendo, and unsubstantiated rumors posted here? I thought that's what we're supposed to be against. I don't see how any of what I posted would change anything about the way we have always done things on this board in the first place. Well take all of the fun outta posting, why doncha!!??? Ok, if you insist . . . Quote
Guest gwm4sian Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 As I understand UK law, the perfect defence against libel is truth. That is, you cannot libel anybody by stating the truth. In Thailand I think this defence does not hold true. The highest profile case I can think of recently was a newspaper report about problems (cracks?) in the runway at the new airport. A court case ensued, the reporters were fined and fired. Not even when the truth finally came out and international experts proved them right could they seek redress. So I understand GB's point of view on this one. Quote
Guest Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 Well take all of the fun outta posting, why doncha!!??? LOL No way dude. You're not suggesting we start violating Thai law, are you? No way in hell dude. But, I didn't say that. I insinuated that you might be overreacting. Sorry, I was too subtle. Besides, since when do you want personal attacks, gossip, innuendo, and unsubstantiated rumors posted here? I thought that's what we're supposed to be against. I don't. NEVER. I hate gossip and gossip queens. But, at the same time, we aren't going to delete posts about someone's experience in Sunee just because it is not substantiated by 3 different parties and 2 outside sources. I think people have a right to their opinion. Whether I agree with them or not. I think we both agree that gossip and personal attacks are not welcome here. Personal opinions are. I don't see how any of what I posted would change anything about the way we have always done things on this board in the first place. Neither do I. I just hope the paranoia going around isn't contagious as you are there and I am not. Wait. Were you just talking about me? So I understand GB's point of view on this one. As do I. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 As I understand UK law, the perfect defence against libel is truth. That is, you cannot libel anybody by stating the truth. In Thailand I think this defence does not hold true. The problem in the UK is you may state the truth, but you then have to prove it was in fact true. Remember Liberace? He sued and won a case against a major newspaper which had claimed he was gay. Liberace not gay? Of course he was, but it could not be proved to the satisfaction of Her Majesty's judiciary. I have no idea of the law here in Thailand. I'd think the truth, no matter how much documentary evidence provided, would be a pretty shaky defense that I personally would not rely on. Quote
Guest gwm4sian Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 Remember Liberace? He sued and won a case against a major newspaper which had claimed he was gay. If I remember correctly, the trouble was that homosexuality was outlawed in the Uk at the time, and Liberace was asked the outright question in court. He lied, and denied he was gay, giving the judges a dilemma. To find the article not libellous would be to say Liberace was gay, and therefore have to prosecute him for perjury and possibly sodomy. Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 at the same time, we aren't going to delete posts about someone's experience in Sunee just because it is not substantiated by 3 different parties and 2 outside sources. Then we're agreed . . . I think. They can say whatever they want about their experiences. This happened or that happened. But they're going to have to do it without naming the venue if they are going to accuse the venue of criminal behavior without substantiation. I don't have any objection if they want to post that they were short-changed at a specific bar or this boy or that boy wouldn't do what he promised. Those are experiences that can occur at any bar. But when they start naming a bar and saying the owner offered them a 14 year old kid or something similar, that's where I draw the line. Did you notice that the news articles always mention what part of town the bar was in, but they don't mention the specific name of the bar. I have to ask myself why even the Thai media refrains from doing that. So, I'd rather err by overreacting than under-reacting. And, as I said, this changes nothing about how I have always moderated this board. Do you see what we're actually discussing? Here's the headline: "Announcement: GB changes nothing about his moderating policies." Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 If you want to see what I mean about the media declining to mention specific names of venues, this story just came out moments ago on the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: Photos: http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2010/02/13/popular-a-go-go-bar-rai _____ Popular “A Go Go” Bar Raided by Pattaya Police A Human Trafficking Division police taskforce raided an “A Go Go” Bar in South Pattaya on Friday. The raid was enacted over reports of lewd and indecent acts occurring at the establishment. Pattaya 13th January 2010 [PDN]: At approximately 00.10 am Police Colonel Woraphong Thorngphaiboon (Human Trafficking Division Superintendent) and Lieutenant Colonel Shusak Kethong (Human Trafficking Division Deputy Superintendent) along with a team of officers, raided the “A Go Go” bar to find 5 semi naked women dancing indecently in front of foreign customers. The venue was a popular establishment in South Pattaya. The Officers ordered the music to be turn off and the lights to be switched on, before they arrest the women, taking them to the Pattaya Police station. The dancers were charged with public indecency and fined 1,000 baht each before being released. ____________________ Nowhere in the story is the name of the bar mentioned, only its approximate location. That is typical of the way these kinds of news stories are written. Again, if the media won't mention the name of the venue, then there must be a reason. Whether that reason makes any sense to us is irrelevant. For me, the logical conclusion I draw is they don't name the venue because legally they cannot. So, that's the way I handle it here and I'm not about to let anyone put me at risk just so a venue can be named. In the case of the news reports, they have plenty of witnesses and plenty of photos to back up what they say. I have yet to ever see a post on one of these boards that can say the same. Even with that backup the media doesn't name the bars. Someone posting here won't have any backup at all except for hearsay and personal opinion. Very sorry, but that's not enough for me to allow others to put me in jeopardy. Quote
Guest travelerjim Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 GB...Look at this news story from Pattaya One News... they reported the club name... South Pattaya Bar raided by Police following report of explicit shows at the venue In the early hours of Friday Morning, Police Lieutenant Colonel Chusak from the National Police Anti-Trafficking Division conducted a raid on the Tahitian Queen Bar located in South Pattaya following a report that explicit shows were taking place at the venue, located on Pattaya Beach Road. The team of officers arrived and noticed a show was taking place on a stage. The female performers were not wearing any cloths and were detained along with the manager of the venue Khun Prasai aged 47. The licenses for the venue were checked and it was found that the license holder for the venue is Khun Anop who is currently being sought by Police. The arrestees were taken to Pattaya Police Station for processing, however the venue is expected to be open for business as usual over the weekend. TIT..Open for business...and licensee was wanted by police... ladies fined 1,000 baht and will be back on stage tonight. tj Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 GB...Look at this news story from Pattaya One News... they reported the club name... Most of the time they don't. Once the media reports the name, now it's fair game. But until then forget it. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 If I remember correctly, the trouble was that homosexuality was outlawed in the Uk at the time, and Liberace was asked the outright question in court. He lied, and denied he was gay, giving the judges a dilemma. To find the article not libellous would be to say Liberace was gay, and therefore have to prosecute him for perjury and possibly sodomy. Apologies! I had thought the court case happened after 1967 when the law against homosexual acts was abolished in England. You are correct. The Liberace lawsuit was in the 1950's - and he did lie in court. I am obviously older than I thought! Quote
PattayaMale Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 I received a call this evening from a person in Chiang Mai asking what in the hell is going on in Sunee Plaza? He asked because of the "gag orders" on the different boards. In my opinion, by people not posting what they "hear" even as "hear say" it can damage Sunee Plaza. It damages it because some people may think worse things that what is true. As to over reacting, I am curious as to why GB feels he would be at jeopardy when he does not own the board, nor is he the only moderator. I think I would be at greater risk (under the theory expressed) if I made an opinion about a post. What I have heard is that at some bars, foreign owners do not have work permits and yet are very involved in the day to day operation of the bars. This maybe a problem for some. The idea of not naming names is because the boards are followed by the some authorities. Remember when Monty was sitting at his pool years ago, and the police arrested him and jailed him for a few days until he could make bail? The "owners" of bars in Boystown have work permits and a legal set up of their business. It was pointed out that something may happen several weeks ago. Many people laughed when I posted the thread from ThaiVisa; when it was suggested that some people could set up business to meet the legal requirements. Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 As to over reacting, I am curious as to why GB feels he would be at jeopardy when he does not own the board, nor is he the only moderator. That's very easy to say when you're not the one. I'm the one. You folks can post until you're blue in the fingers, but again I am the only one associated with the operation of this board who resides permanently in Thailand. I would appreciate it if my wishes were respected. If you really want to name names without proper substantiation, how about doing so on other boards, where the owners and moderators don't seem to mind. My analogy is that, as far as I know, only one farang has ever been arrested as a result of taking an under-age boy off from a bar. Obviously the odds of being arrested are quite remote, despite the law. But the fact remains that somebody was indeed arrested. I see this issue as the same thing. You could most likely write all the posts you want and name all the names you want and the odds are that nothing will ever happen. Those odds aren't good enough for me. If you were in my place I don't think they would be good enough for you either. The fact is that Thailand has some oddball libel laws and if this board permits those laws to be violated and either the police or named individuals want to make an issue of it, then somebody is going to get sued and somebody may be arrested. Since I'm the one who lives here, that somebody could very easily be me. No thank you very much. Folks, if you are going to ask me to take the slightest risk just because you want to name names, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Whether you like me or hate me, I don't think very many people would dispute the fact that I put in a hell of a lot of time and effort on this board. I think I'm entitled to do that without people insisting that I take legal risks along with everything else. If it's so important to anyone to name names, then how about opening your own board and you can be the one taking the risks. Now let's see if anyone actually does it or if it's simply easier to criticize me while letting me take the risks while you're out there taking none . . . Quote
Guest voldemar Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 Folks, if you are going to ask me to take the slightest risk just because you want to name names, then you're barking up the wrong tree. The question is whether this message board is about Gaybutton or Gay Thailand (pun intended). As was indicated many times before the best solution of this dilemma is resignation of Gaybutton from his position of moderator. Not only it would stop many years of abuse and drastically improve the quality of the board, it would allow Gaybutton to live happily thereafter and deal with his own paranoya privately rather than subjecting the world to his mental spasms that in reality should be strictly between him and his shrink. Quote
Gaybutton Posted February 13, 2010 Posted February 13, 2010 That's excellent advice. 3 guesses whether I'm going to follow it. 3 more guesses what happens next time you post a personal attack, even when it's directed toward paranoid ol' me. Captain Queeg: "Ahh, but the strawberries. That's... that's where I had them. They laughed at me and made jokes . . ." - Humphrey Bogart, 'The Caine Mutiny' Quote
