Condomless with GPs in Brazil

[Canadianbtmguy]

A member wrote to me and asked about my experiences finding tops who bareback, whether they take offense and whether they upcharge. I thought about just answering him back in a message, but I figure that others have similar questions. And I also thought about just covering the topic in my trip report. Instead, acknowledging that there are strong feelings on both sides of the topic, I thought it best to segregate the information with a trigger warning included. I am reminded of a song, I don’t know the artist, wherein he sings if you don’t like gay marriage, then don’t get gay married. Similarly, if you don’t like condomless sex, don’t do it. And please, close this thread now and read about things that you do like. But— and I think this is pretty good life advice generally— don’t yuck someone else’s yum. I will endeavor to make the post dispassionate and not salacious.

So a bit of background on my perspective that informs the experiences I had. I’m definitely not a strict never-condomer. It’s just one factor that I have found is positively correlated with hot experiences. It’s one of a few things I’ve found to be thus correlated, such as big dick, good attitude and attraction (tall, hairy, square-jawed masculine face). So if a lot of these other things are present, I may try to get the guy to forgo the condoms, but it’s not a deal breaker if he won’t. Have I had amazing mind blowing sex with condoms? Yes absolutely. Have I  had numbingly boring sex without them? Yes absolutely.

So, in the sauna, it’s really most important on the margin, when I like the guy somewhat, but he’s not totally my type--there are quite a few guys falling into that category-- it’s gonna make a difference. As for the guys on the Internet, there are so many of them, at least in Rio and São Paulo, it’s hard to narrow it down, and that’s one way to do so. Still, that being said, There have been a couple of guys from the Internet that I found spectacular, at least in pictures, that I was interested to hire, even though I knew they intended to use condoms.

So why does it matter to me? I can think of three main reasons offhand. First., I really love both slow sex and positions in which it can be harder for the top to maintain his erection (I pretty much hate pounding doggy style). With the kind of sex I like condoms typically compound the problem by reducing the friction further. Second, I really love the feel of the head going in and out, and tight condoms especially kind of smush the ridge ring of the head into the shaft (least of the three reasons). Finally, the psychological: I don’t want a barrier between me and the guy I find so hot; I love cum and I confess that I find the moment when the guy shoots inside of me to be, well, among my favorite things in life.

Now for some estimations, keeping in mind that my data collection and compilation may be contaminated by all sorts of biases. I would say that condomless sex is at its most prevalent, a bit over half, in free Grindr hookups in the gayberhoods of Rio (copa/ipanema) and SP (consolacao). I have been to a non-GP sauna Only once, but I would speculate that it would be just as high or even higher there. Of the garotocomlocal ads, I would say a little over a third in Rio and SP (at one time I had considered going to BH,at one time I had considered going to BH, where it seemed willingness was much less) I do prescreen for guys who kiss and who like sexo devagarzinho (slow) and I would guess that these guys, who are more likely to be gay and integrated in the gay community, are more likely to be on PrEP and more likely to be ok with condomless. Some do upcharge, but this is pretty rare (less than a quarter of those who are ok with condomless expect a supplement).

In the saunas I would say it falls a bit further, with maybe a quarter OK with condomless. There may be some social stigma among the other garotos in doing so. I was very disappointed that 202 was lowering the time limit on rooms to 30 minutes on all nights, previously the limit only on free nights (it was 40 otherwise) it’s not such a big deal to pay the 50 reais overage, but it sets the standard among the GPs how long a session should be, and I fear that the saunas are devolving into fora for low quality, almost furtive sex, with less than stellar boys, short sessions (who can have amazing sex in 29 minutes?) and yes, condom use. I guess you could say I''m the kind of guy who wants it all, and some quick low-quality sex with a guy, no matter how hot, just isn't enough. Among guys in the sauna who are selling their big cocks and not much else going for them, I would think that a higher percentage of these would be straight, less likely to picture themselves as someone who should take PrEP and hence least likely all to bareback. I’m not sure that’s my experience, though. and If anything, it may be the ones with both huge dicks and great bodies who are the ones least likely to agree in the sauna, perhaps because if they did agree, they could earn more on the Internet.

There are few, by the way, who noticeably take offense at the suggestion, although I can’t really say what is in their mind. Maybe 1 in 40 will make a snarky comment.

So these are my lines:
Bem, deixe eu te contar o que eu gosto de saber se nossos estilos são compatíveis? Sou passivo, gosto de penetração devagarzinho, pelo menos no início. Para mim beijar é uma das coisas mais importantes e gosto de beijos profundos e apaixonados. Resumindo, tipo de sexo com namorado romântico….

If they come back cool with that (a few say it’s not their style), then I send:
Bem, acho que a última coisa que gosto como namorado é que eu faço PreP, vc também?… bareback é legal o faz so com camesinha?

Already previous to this, I had asked their price in the first message, so that may be tamping down on upcharging. Similarly, in the sauna, although after going over this, I do not ask their price, (grave mistake in my view) but rather just as we start toward reception, as if I had almost forgotten, I say, oh, 200 reais, sim? I think it would take nerves of Steel for the garoto to risk killing the deal at that point, And I would say well less than 5% balk (arguing for 250). I’m not really into the guy, like if he short or it’s a slow or if it’s early or late, 150 will suffice. One guy, who I have written of elsewhere, who was 6'4" and so far out of the league of his competition I really didn't know what to say, I did say 250 (although in fact he was a country boy, as it turned out, and probably wouldve been fine, too, at 200). There are 2 very white guys around in 117/202 who refuse R200, but that is super rare. FYI, a garoto at Lagoa told me that at least 90% of the guys there are fine with 150.

On the Internet, my favorite guy, now away in London, was charging only 350 in SP. I feel like I don’t quite have enough data points for this, but I feel that even in the last six months, the price for Internet guys continue to rise with a few exceeding 500.

It was with one of these, in fact, charging 600, pretty much as high as it goes, that i had a very interesting experience involving PReP. He uses those cursed disappearing messages on WhatsApp, so I can’t recount the conversation with precision, but my recollection, when I asked him my typical question (above) about PrEP He expressed interest in it, that he had thought about taking it, but had not yet, and that he had never had sex with a guy without a condom but he would like to someday. This guy was smoking hot in the pictures, (although as it turned out, he had put on a bit of weight) And I was keen to turn someday into today. I explained to him about PrEP on demand (2-1-1) regimen) and sent him a brief article and explanation in Portuguese from the New York City department of health. I offered to give him the PrEP, Which I have in individually wrapped and labeled doses, so that he would know he was taking Descovy. He also asked if, when he arrived, I could share with him my most recent HIV and STI results, which I have online. I offered to bring it to him in person, would’ve had the advantage of being able screen him in advance to ensure I was attracted to him, but he suggested I send it over via the Uber package service, which I had never used before. I read the requirements for that service, and medicines were excluded, so I put them in with a small pack of cookies although I doubt the driver would’ve cared in the end.. It took a little handholding, but not much, and later that afternoon he came over. At first, I was a little disappointed that he was not quite as good as his pictures, but he was undoubtedly still attractive. He was also not hugely hung, but he was an ardent kisser, fucked a generous hour in my preferred positions and was very smiley with a great attitude. Very enthusiastic afterward as well, said it was amazing and when we do it again.? Of course, there was no way to separate his general eagerness for his presumed eagerness for another 600 reais. I might’ve called him again for 300, but you know how it is, so many men, so little time.

Another interesting set of experiences happened last year when I had a medical condition that I couldn’t—or at least wasn’t supposed to--get fucked. In the worst of it, I canceled a trip there, but then I decided making out could still be fun, so then what I would say I was looking for was passionate kissing and not penetration itself, but for the guy to rub his dick against my ass as if he was going to penetrate me. I don’t know what you want to call it, but I had an extraordinarily high percentage of condomless “peek-ins” Very few guys put on a condom for this, and similarly, very few did it while steering well clear of the hole. I wonder if some took it as a challenge. Fairly few progressed to full on fucking, but some did, and exactly the kind of slow fucking I love, with me, fairly genuinely but conflicted, saying things like não, but also só lento (only slow). Now that the condition is healed, I kinda wonder if I should have the guts to keep the schtick going, saying I don’t want penetration when I’m all about it😂

Lastly, looking forward to my next visit, a mention of 2 guys I met in my last trip, that I described in my trip report posted under another thread. The first (Sun/Mon/Tues) guy has a nice big and thick dick in a standard way, and as such, the pleasure of taking it raw is the normally (pretty high) benefit, and, in fact the last time we saw each other he did give it to me about a minute raw before covering it up for a much longer period. The raw part was on a couch, before we moved to the bed, and at one point he took off the condom, after maybe an hour and 5 different positions, and I suggested we move back to the couch with a kind of a wink, wink, (that we should not only continue on the couch, but in the previous manner we had been on the couch....)but alas he put on another condom and continued that way. He is heading to Paris to work and it will be interesting to find out what effect that has on him (prevalence of PrEP in France is quite high and Parisian clients may be quite demanding)

The second guy Tues/Wed has a remarkably thick dick and was older (maybe mid or even late 30s) and he could stay hard in doggy style, kind of hard in missionary but not other positions that, unlike doggy, I like. So to get him bareback and/or viagra could be an abnormally high benefit. Even though he kissed beautifully for hours, I do want him to be able to stay hard in positions that I like that give the top less control and less friction (which problem, of course the condom compounds). I haven't asked him about PrEP beyond if he takes it, which he said no. The first guy going to Paris is a full time escort, whereas this one has a regular job in a gym (he sent me a video the other day of him teaching an aerobics class) so I don't know if either are getting pressure from other clients to take PreP. I may, in fact, see the first one in Paris, but it will probably be a couple of months before I am back to Brazil...

[floridarob]

3 hours ago, Canadianbtmguy said:

I was very disappointed that 202 was lowering the time limit on rooms to 30 minutes on all nights

I can't tell you the last time I went to a room in any of the saunas...not only for the time, but they are shitholes, loud talking/screaming in the hallways, can't enjoy the time there....always back to my room. Plus many guys hold out to cum for more money or to be able to perform for more programas. By the time we go to my place, they are usually ready to get off....

[Latbear4blk]

2 hours ago, floridarob said:

I can't tell you the last time I went to a room in any of the saunas...not only for the time, but they are shitholes, loud talking/screaming in the hallways, can't enjoy the time there....always back to my room. Plus many guys hold out to cum for more money or to be able to perform for more programas. By the time we go to my place, they are usually ready to get off....

Yeah! I usually spend less than 20' in the cabins, enough for talents' sampling. If they are bad, sometimes I left the cabin in 5 minutes. If they are good, I take them to my place with no clock watching.

But I do understand the frustration of those who do have full sex in there. 

[babybear2]

This is a helpful article for fellow bottoms. Thanks for sharing 

[Novarunner]

I suggest you read the recent thread in the Colombia forum titled observations.  The thing you desire directly correlates to the amount of time PrEP has been available in a given place (and the cost of access).  Oddly enough, Merica leads the way in helping gay boys exchange certain bodily fluids with each other safely.  You don’t even have to take a pill every day any more…. An injection once every two months is also available (and free) if you prefer.

Perhaps our best days really are ahead of us.  Now, if only this country would take the same enlighten approach to granting a visa to a certain 28 year old that has an amazing pau but “non-traditional” employment in Rio de Janeiro….

[Riobard]

AFAIK Descovy, in contrast to Truvada, is not indicated anywhere for on-demand / event-driven 2-1-1 HIV PrEP either formally or off-label, as corroborated by NYC Health, IAS, CATIE, etc.

One can switch from daily or on-demand Truvada to daily (but not on-demand) Descovy, or from daily Descovy to daily or on-demand Truvada. Descovy has not been studied for oral uptake timing surrounding sexual intercourse events. 

Not that I would consider giving a “starter kit” to a Brazilian national in Brazil because I would more likely steer them to their local provision option, but I would recommend accurate educational guidance. Also, unlike Truvada and Apretude, Descovy for PrEP is not yet authorized in Brazil. If the guy were to eventually seek PrEP formally he might reveal that a visiting gringo had provided a controlled prescription-dependent drug not ANVISA-approved in Brazil and with an incorrect dosing regimen instruction to boot. 

[Mavica]

Barebacking not only places the escorts at risk, the rest of us as well.  Selfish lack of respect for life, or all.  No way to sugar-coat it.

[Novarunner]

But what about 18 year olds that one meets on Grindr that like taking pictures from the rooftop of your “fancy” hotel to post on their IG account that have taken PrEP for their entire sexually active lives and that think condoms are only for when they occasionally have sex with women who can get pregnant and all…?  You’re right, instead of feeling incredibly old when he told me he had “always” been on PrEP and then letting both of us make a risk based decision because that’s what adults do (even if they are only 18), I should have lecture him about the necessity of wearing condoms during a time when he was a child.

I wish I could end this post by saying that we had mind blowing sex but, unfortunately, he turned out to be an attractive dud.  Hopefully in a few years he will be better able use the gifts that God gave him and we can try again….

[KeepItReal]

5 minutes ago, Novarunner said:

But what about 18 year olds that one meets on Grindr that like taking pictures from the rooftop of your “fancy” hotel to post on their IG account that have taken PrEP for their entire sexually active lives and that think condoms are only for when they occasionally have sex with women who can get pregnant and all…?  You’re right, instead of feeling incredibly old when he told me he had “always” been on PrEP and then letting both of us make a risk based decision because that’s what adults do (even if they are only 18), I should have lecture him about the necessity of wearing condoms during a time when he was a child.

I wish I could end this post by saying that we had mind blowing sex but, unfortunately, he turned out to be an attractive dud.  Hopefully in a few years he will be better able use the gifts that God gave him and we can try again….

So you met an irresponsible 18 year old that doesn't know his arse from his elbow? Consider that perhaps he isn't able to make a risk based decision...but you can. You don't have to lecture, but you can choose to refuse to participate in risky behavior.

[Latbear4blk]

Any sexual interaction is risky. If you do not want risks, do not have sex. 

[KeepItReal]

5 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said:

Any sexual interaction is risky. If you do not want risks, do not have sex. 

You take a risk when you get out of bed in the morning. Risk is part of life...and sex. I don't think that is what we are talking about.

There is choosing higher risk behavior and choosing lower risk behavior when it comes to sex. In addition, encouraging higher risk behavior when interacting with an impressionable youth (the 18 year old mentioned above) is something else entirely. 

[Novarunner]

1 hour ago, KeepItReal said:

You take a risk when you get out of bed in the morning. Risk is part of life...and sex. I don't think that is what we are talking about.

There is choosing higher risk behavior and choosing lower risk behavior when it comes to sex. In addition, encouraging higher risk behavior when interacting with an impressionable youth (the 18 year old mentioned above) is something else entirely. 

Have you, by any chance, used Grindr in the United States at any point in, say, the last two or three years…?  You appear to fall into the condoms-only club which is fine and apparently right for you but the membership is dwindling.  Times (and technology) change and with them attitudes.

Lastly, I cannot help but mention that you may also want to investigate the abstinence-only club.  I’m told it has the lowest risk of them all…

[Latbear4blk]

I wonder when the preachers will understand that we all have different levels or risk tolerance, and that most of us are in 2024?

 

[floridarob]

6 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

impressionable youth (the 18 year old mentioned above)

Maybe in the US...Latin America and Brasil, 18 yr olds are far more experienced 😱 

[KeepItReal]

4 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

I wonder when the preachers will understand that we all have different levels or risk tolerance, and that most of us are in 2024?

 

That is too funny! From studying the volume of this thread, the preaching seems to be coming from those shilling in favor of barebacking and glossing over the risks.

I am just wondering if folks are honest with themselves about the risks, to them and their partners. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we older guys are one foot in the grave - but our younger partners have a long life ahead and they may end up dealing with the outcomes of high risk behavior for a long time. In my book, they deserve better. 

You do you. But be honest with yourself about the impact of high risk behavior. Amen. 

[Novarunner]

I have certain advantages in this life as do most others that read and post here.  In my case, it is American money and education and, based on the way you write, I strongly suspect we share those advantages.

While it was fun to suggest that you look into joining the abstinence-only club, perhaps we could just agree that using our advantages to obtain sem camisinha from a GP (or really anyone) that would prefer to use condoms is wrong.  Period.

[Latbear4blk]

2 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

the preaching seems to be coming from those shilling in favor of barebacking and glossing over the risks

I was not advocating for barebacking, Sor Keep It Real. I was advocating for the right of consenting adults to choose the level of risk they want to face, without being stigmatized for their decisions. I am not anti condoms, and as a matter of fact I am using them frequently right now in Brazil.

2 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

I am just wondering if folks are honest with themselves about the risks, to them and their partners.

You are not wondering. Your Selfrighteous Highness, you are making assumptions and judging.

 

2 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

You do you.

Obrigado! You are such an open minded and generous soul.

 

2 hours ago, KeepItReal said:

Amen. 

[Brak]

On 4/19/2024 at 2:16 PM, Mavica said:

Barebacking not only places the escorts at risk, the rest of us as well.  Selfish lack of respect for life, or all.  No way to sugar-coat it.

Every sex act comes with a level of risk. You could say having sex with a GP at all places them at risk too. It's about the level of risk vs. reward that both you and the GP are willing to take.

[Brak]

I see that point has already been made. And I don't think anyone in here said anything about pressuring a GP to bareback.

[Brak]

I will say in my experience, I had a guy at Thermas in Barcelona get very excited when i told him we didn't need to use a condom. He prefers not to, but also asked that I not mention it outside the room because other guys at the sauna will look down on him for it.

[Primeone385]

On 4/19/2024 at 9:46 AM, Novarunner said:

I suggest you read the recent thread in the Colombia forum titled observations.  The thing you desire directly correlates to the amount of time PrEP has been available in a given place (and the cost of access).  Oddly enough, Merica leads the way in helping gay boys exchange certain bodily fluids with each other safely.  You don’t even have to take a pill every day any more…. An injection once every two months is also available (and free) if you prefer.

Perhaps our best days really are ahead of us.  Now, if only this country would take the same enlighten approach to granting a visa to a certain 28 year old that has an amazing pau but “non-traditional” employment in Rio de Janeiro….

Love this form and the fact someone used “Merica” 

[babybear2]

unrelated to the topic, but as fellow bottom, can you share how you weed out the duds? 

I would say 30% of my hires cannot get hard enough for penetration in the sauna. I feel it is rude to ask them get hard for me before the deal, so I do not have a good way to handle this. These 30% of guys are really a waste of time and money.

@Canadianbtmguy, would love your thoughts or please DM me if you prefer that way 

[KeepItReal]

34 minutes ago, babybear2 said:

unrelated to the topic, but as fellow bottom, can you share how you weed out the duds? 

I would say 30% of my hires cannot get hard enough for penetration in the sauna. I feel it is rude to ask them get hard for me before the deal, so I do not have a good way to handle this. These 30% of guys are really a waste of time and money.

@Canadianbtmguy, would love your thoughts or please DM me if you prefer that way 

Viagra, a glass of water and 10 minutes of making out has a 99% success rate. (Hey, you asked!) 🤓

[babybear2]

2 minutes ago, KeepItReal said:

Viagra, a glass of water and 10 minutes of making out has a 99% success rate. (Hey, you asked!) 🤓

will this be awkward? I am not sure you are joking or this is what you do, sigh 

if anyone needs to carry Viagra with them, it is the programa guys, if they have work ethics, haha

[floridarob]

9 hours ago, babybear2 said:

These 30% of guys are really a waste of time and money.

You wouldn't believe how many times the local clients are  direct, so fucking direct....no mincing words.

I let them know to "close the deal"...now power, no money....some I tease that if they can't get hard, they'll be the bottom.......

If guys know that they have performance issues, they'll already have their remedio, to take care of that deficiency .....

DON'T accept subpar performance.....that is all 😉