Social Skills

[kokopelli]

In an attempt to return to my list of Social Skills, let me add two others.

 

 

16. Know that apologizing is not completed by merely saying, "I'm sorry" and then moving on. A true apology contains three parts; a) an admission of wrong doing, b. an acceptance of responsibility for hurting another's feelings or damaging their self esteem, and c. an effort to explain your awareness of how you should have behaved or plan to in the future. Doing less than that is almost as insulting as the first transgression.

 

Thanks for returning to the original post and I am aware I did go off topic as did some others. I really do think item #16 deserves to be drilled into all of our minds and hearts.

[Gaybutton]

I really do think item #16 deserves to be drilled into all of our minds and hearts.

I agree. A simple "I'm sorry" doesn't cut it when the necessity for an apology goes beyond something very simple. Often, that can make an already tense situation even worse.

 

I think a "pseudo-apology" also makes the situation worse. It's when the person doing the apologizing tries to pretend he has no idea what he did wrong. "Whatever I did, I'm sorry." "If I did something to offend you, I'm sorry."

 

What kind of an apology is that? That's nothing but someone essentially saying to you, "I didn't really do anything wrong, but if saying 'I'm sorry' will defuse the situation, then I'll say the words even though they really don't mean anything and without any true sincerity or remorse on my part."

 

To me that's not an apology. It's more a slap in the face. An apology without acknowledgment is not an apology.

[Guest fountainhall]

I think a "pseudo-apology" also makes the situation worse. It's when the person doing the apologizing tries to pretend he has no idea what he did wrong. "Whatever I did, I'm sorry." "If I did something to offend you, I'm sorry."

I agree totally with the comments so far. If both parties are from the same cultural background, it's relatively easy to spot the difference. But are there not situations where cultural differences can make one party feel he has indeed truly apologised but the other feels it is more of the "pseudo" variety? If one is a farang with not much experience in Thailand and the other is Thai with not much experience of farang, I am sure we have all come across examples where offense has been taken, one party apologises profusely and sincerely, but the other is convinced it is merely a "Whatever I did, I'm sorry" type of apology. (Sorry, too many 'parties' flying around in this post). How do you persuade someone who feels he has been genuinely 'hurt' by something said or done, that there was no intent to cause such 'hurt' and you are truly sorry for not realising it would cause such 'hurt'?

[Gaybutton]

How do you persuade someone who feels he has been genuinely 'hurt' by something said or done, that there was no intent to cause such 'hurt' and you are truly sorry for not realising it would cause such 'hurt'?

Your point is well taken, regarding farang to Thai and vice-versa. In my post above I meant farang to farang.

 

Probably one of the most common causes between Thai and farang occurs because of "Thai Time," when the Thai boy says what time he will meet you somewhere or how long he will be gone. I have learned that when a Thai boy tells me "Twenty minutes I come," that can mean anything from the actual 20 minutes to 2 hours, or longer. Many farang, especially those new to Thailand and those who have discussed it with their boyfriends until they're blue in the face, still end up the victims of "Thai Time."

 

I'm being victimized by it even as I write this. A young Thai gentleman was supposed to give me a call at noon. At the moment it's about 12:40. I don't even regard him as late unless 2:00 rolls around and I still haven't heard from him.

 

Regarding your question above, I think saying it just as you do in your question ought to be sufficient, assuming the person who is owed the apology is willing to discuss it at all. The person doing the apologizing needs to be prepared to discuss it if the other party wants to discuss it and/or let the other party vent his anger. The person apologizing also needs to make sure he doesn't get defensive about it or try to tell the other party how it wasn't such a big thing when, obviously, to him it was.

 

Depending on the degree of seriousness the other party takes whatever happened, sometimes that will solve the problem and sometimes you'll lose a friend over it.

[Guest RichLB]

16. Know that apologizing is not completed by merely saying, "I'm sorry" and then moving on. A true apology contains three parts; a. an admission of wrong doing, b. an acceptance of responsibility for hurting another's feelings or damaging their self esteem, and c. an effort to explain your awareness of how you should have behaved or plan to in the future. Doing less than that is almost as insulting as the first transgression.

I think there is some confusion concerning using Social Skill #16. It is talking about how one effectively offers an apology, not how to extract one. I am not sure that cultural differences are relevant when apologizing to another person - whether Farang or Thai. It may be when accepting another's mea culpa, but I don't think so. I find, many times, when a person merely says, "Sorry" it is self serving and intended to relieve their guilt or shrug it off more than it is an expression of regret for their malfeasance.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Worse than just "sorry" is "sorry about that".

[Bob]

16. Know that apologizing is not completed by merely saying, "I'm sorry" and then moving on. A true apology contains three parts; a. an admission of wrong doing, b. an acceptance of responsibility for hurting another's feelings or damaging their self esteem, and c. an effort to explain your awareness of how you should have behaved or plan to in the future. Doing less than that is almost as insulting as the first transgression.

 

Stealing the line from Steve Martin: Well, excuuuuuuuse me!

 

I understand (and, I think, generally practice) acceptable social skills but I'm getting the drift here that either Emily Post or Queen Victoria is taking this to a whole new level. Interesting reading but I have no plans to attend a royal function at the moment.

By the way, do Kings fart in public (and, if so, who takes the blame? hehe)?

[Guest RichLB]

Well, excuuuuuuuse me!

I sure hope this list of Social Skills doesn't come across that way. They aren't meant to be just interesting reading, but hopefully helpful for all of us to develop the kinds of relationships most of us want. People who have trouble sustaining relationships are generally not aware that the trouble often lies in their own behavior. Sadly, many of us substitute acquaintanceship for friendship and some of us just don't know how to move past cocktail chatter to associations where there is a real emotional investment. It's my hope that those who wish to move beyond pastime level relationships will find these social skills of use.

[Guest fountainhall]

I'd like to suggest another two.

 

17. Being aware when walking along often narrow pavements that other people have a right to be there, and that walking and chatting 3- or 4-abreast can hinder both those behind who wish to walk faster - and who have to step out on to the road to pass you, as well as those coming towards you, who have an equal right to get 'through' your group without excusing themselves for it. I'm sure we've all come across it, but it does seem to be a less observed social skill in Thailand than many other places I visit.

 

18. Showing courtesy when getting off a moving escalator by walking quickly away. How many times have we seen people reach the top escalators and then slow down, seemingly unaware that the escalator itself does not slow down and will continue to throw up hoards of other people, all of whom will be inconvenienced?

[Gaybutton]

18. Showing courtesy when getting off a moving escalator by walking quickly away. How many times have we seen people reach the top escalators and then slow down, seemingly unaware that the escalator itself does not slow down and will continue to throw up hoards of other people, all of whom will be inconvenienced?

I have exactly the opposite problem. I don't usually encounter people who block the top of the escalator. But I all too frequently have people brush past me when the escalator isn't moving fast enough for them. I know it must be very urgent for them to save the ten or fifteen seconds they save by brushing past people and I don't have much of a problem with that since I try to stand to one side in anticipation of these people. But I have a big problem when they physically push me aside in their eagerness to get to the top a few seconds before everybody else.

[Guest fountainhall]

I all too frequently have people brush past me when the escalator isn't moving fast enough for them. I know it must be very urgent for them to save the ten or fifteen seconds they save by brushing past people and I don't have much of a problem with that since I try to stand to one side in anticipation of these people. But I have a big problem when they physically push me aside in their eagerness to get to the top a few seconds before everybody else

I have not paid much attention to escalators here in Thailand, but in most other countries I have been to it is accepted that some people will wish to stand still whilst others will wish to move more quickly. It's accepted to the point where there are signs indicating that the former should stand on one particular side to allow for others to move freely and more quickly on the other. I am generally one of those who like to get down fast - gravity and age have got to me and prevent my going faster up. And I do get annoyed when others do not respect the 'rules'. That said, if someone is in my way, I always stop and ask them is they will move more to the side. Or a simple "excuse me" usually works. I trust I hear someone saying "Good social skills!"

[Bob]

One that I never get is the people that block the moving walkways at airports such as Suvarnabhumi. They can't stand off to one side (I do believe there are signs there to that effect) nor can they hear the herd of buffaloes coming up behind them?

 

I often don't walk on those walkways and just take the easy ride....but I know enough to stand off to the side to let those in more of a hurry through. Simple common courtesy even if the signs weren't there.

[Guest]

18. Showing courtesy when getting off a moving escalator by walking quickly away. How many times have we seen people reach the top escalators and then slow down, seemingly unaware that the escalator itself does not slow down and will continue to throw up hoards of other people, all of whom will be inconvenienced?

 

That's one of my pet hates, along with loitering in doorways etc.

[Guest Astrrro]

Sadly, many of us substitute acquaintanceship for friendship and some of us just don't know how to move past cocktail chatter to associations where there is a real emotional investment. It's my hope that those who wish to move beyond pastime level relationships will find these social skills of use.

 

These rules seem geare towards interactions between aquaintences; good ideas for dealing with office colleauges.

 

Friendhip is a whole different level that goes beyond politeness and common courtesy.

[Guest RichLB]

These rules seem geare towards interactions between aquaintences; good ideas for dealing with office colleauges.

 

Friendhip is a whole different level that goes beyond politeness and common courtesy.

I'm not so sure about that. One could argue that "politeness and common courtesy" is even more important when with people you truly care about. As I re-read the list, it seems more designed to create and maintain friendships than it does reminders of ettiquettte.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

While we are on peeves let me tell one of mine. It's people who stand in line at fast food places and when they get to the cashier to order, only then do they look at the menu board to decide what they will order. They had already been standing in line 2-3 minutes and had no foresight to look at the board?

[Gaybutton]

I'll add a peeve of my own. It's the people who get into an express lane at a grocery store, and most are clearly marked "10 items or less," and they have many more than 10 items. I also get annoyed at cashiers who let them get away with it.

 

Even worse, most of these express lanes are also clearly marked "cash only." Don't you love it when you get behind someone who has about 30 items, isn't carrying enough cash, and then whips out a debit card?

 

I also enjoy it when things happen such as getting behind someone who forgot to get his onions weighed before going to the cashier's line. Now you have to wait about ten more minutes while the cashier flags down an attendant who is apparently clueless as to where to even get the items weighed for the customer, and then finally returns - often at a snail's pace. Nothing like having a nice leisurely stroll while keeping everyone else waiting.

[Guest fountainhall]

My complaint goes toward those who condemn smokers because of their clothes. For example, lvdkeyes complains about being seated next to someone whose clothes smell of smoke and he has no way to move away from it. What is the smoker supposed to do about it, keep himself locked away at home? I'm certainly not willing to do that

According to a study out today, smoke on clothing IS harmful to the health of those at or near smokers. This from AFP on the yahoo website.

 

Third-hand smoke also bad for you: study

 

By AFP - Tue Feb 9, 2:20 AM PST

WASHINGTON (AFP) - You know smoking is bad for you. You know inhaling someone else's smoke is bad for you. Now a US study says third-hand smoke -- tobacco residue clinging to surfaces -- is also bad for you.

 

When a cigarette burns, nicotine is released in the form of a vapor that collects and condenses on indoor surfaces such as walls, carpeting, drapes and furniture, where it can linger for months, said the study, which was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

 

"Our study shows that when this residual nicotine reacts with ambient nitrous acid it forms carcinogenic tobacco-specific nitrosamines, or TSNAs," said Hugo Destaillats, a corresponding author of the study. "TSNAs are among the most broadly acting and potent carcinogens present in unburned tobacco and tobacco smoke," he said.

 

The most likely human exposure to TSNAs is through either inhalation of dust or the contact of skin with carpet or clothes -- making third-hand smoke particularly dangerous to infants and toddlers. Opening a window or turning on a fan to air out a room while a cigarette burns does not eliminate the hazard of third-hand smoke. Smoking outdoors doesn't help much either.

"Smoking outside is better than smoking indoors but nicotine residues will stick to a smoker's skin and clothing," said Lara Gundel, a co-author of the study.

 

"Those residues follow a smoker back inside and get spread everywhere. The biggest risk is to young children," she said.

Researchers from the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory led the study, which they say is the first to quantify the reactions of third-hand smoke with nitrous acid.

[Gaybutton]

According to a study out today, smoke on clothing IS harmful to the health of those at or near smokers.

That's it then. From now on I'll go naked.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

That's it then. From now on I'll go naked.

 

YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!! The fifty-fourth hand smoke on your skin could kill some innocent passerby....if the sight of you naked doesn't do it first!

 

Xian

 

PS

Sorry GB...I couldn't resist that!

[Gaybutton]

Sorry GB...I couldn't resist that!

Nothing to be sorry about. It wouldn't be the first time. When I was a kid I had an imaginary friend. He didn't like me. I took off my clothes and that killed him. The perfect crime . . .

 

"I don't get no respect at all. I met the Surgeon General. He offered me a cigarette!"

- Rodney Dangerfield

[Guest fountainhall]

The fifty-fourth hand smoke on your skin could kill some innocent passerby

Interesting point! For decades all we have heard about was second-hand smoke. Now we know there's a third-hand variety. How many more 'hands' are likely to emerge in future?

 

That's it then. From now on I'll go naked.

Maybe the next 'hand' will be the one that gropes GB in his birthday suit

[Guest RichLB]

To return to social skills, should I assume the inference for those of us who smoke is that we avoid socializing with those who do not smoke in deference tot their health issues? There is no debate that smoking is an unhealthy habit and that second hand smoke is annoying to non-smokers. I have always thought limiting my smoking to outside venues, not smoking even there while others are eating, and making attempts to deflect my smoke from others was sufficient. But, now, it seems my mere presence is evidence of a lack of sensitivity. Other than removing myself from those who do not smoke, I am unclear what fountainhall, in light of his research citation, is suggesting we who elect to smoke do.

[Guest fountainhall]

Other than removing myself from those who do not smoke, I am unclear what fountainhall, in light of his research citation, is suggesting we who elect to smoke do.

I was suggesting nothing - as the post makes clear. I was merely bringing attention to a report I had just read, partly because there had been some comment on the thread that this type of "third-hand smoke" disappears by showering and changing clothes a couple of times a day. I suspect there will soon be a report from another body (probably funded by the tobacco lobby) disproving the results, and then the merry-go-round will pick up speed with accusations and counter-accusations continuing for decades.

 

I think whatever action to take depends on whether you believe the report. I also suggest it is less up to those of us who do not smoke than those who do. After all, non-smokers are not polluting the air with stale smoke. I believe each of us is responsible for the consequences of our actions. If I ever learned that the brand of cologne I use might actually be harmful to anyone, I'd not think twice about changing brands or even giving up using cologne. Unfortunately, that isn't an option for most smokers due to nicotine's highly addictive nature. So 'live and let live' is probably the only 'action' presently available (apologies for the pun!).

[Guest mauRICE]

I was suggesting nothing - as the post makes clear. I was merely bringing attention to a report I had just read, partly because there had been some comment on the thread that this type of "third-hand smoke" disappears by showering and changing clothes a couple of times a day.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7188230/Third-hand-smoke-as-dangerous-as-cigarette-fumes.html

 

And second-hand smoke is not just "annoying". It kills.