Social Skills

[Guest fountainhall]

You're right. I'm going to take you to task . . . if it comes down to you taking offense to the way my clothes smell, my friend, that's your problem. Like I said, I, for one, won't stand for being relegated to second class citizenship. If you don't like the way my clothes smell, then when I show up you can leave

See, I knew it! The point of my post was simply to point out that, notwithstanding the efforts of smokers to avoid offending those who do not smoke (efforts which I certainly appreciate), there is almost no way to ensure that. I do not know if my sense of smell is more or less acute than that of others. Certainly if I have been in a bar where the smoking ban is not enforced, even if there for just a short time, my clothes will not only smell of stale smoke when I get home but also the next morning when I put them in the washing machine. So smelly feet and nicotine-infused clothing do affect me. Since my father smoked 60 heavy tar cigarettes a day, you'd think I might be immune to it. But for some reason I am not.

 

I think one solution might be similar to another given to me by a colleague who knew I had to put up with a lot of bullshit from one of my Board members. Returning from a visit to the USA, he gave me a present he thought I'd appreciate - a spray can purporting to be "GENUINE TEXAS BULLSHIT REPELLANT - spray and the bullshit miraculously disappears."

 

Perhaps I should take matters into my own hands. In future, I'll consider carrying a large bottle of strong cologne and spray it around when my smoke meter perks up. And maybe it should have a lovely feminine smell. In which case I shall go into training first so I can run like hell!

[Gaybutton]

See, I knew it!

I demand the right to reek. Now you've got me thinking. Are you thinking what I'm thinking? I'm thinking of stinking.

 

You might try spraying me with the new cologne . . . Stench Quench. I understand its odor is reminiscent of that feminine hygiene spray . . . Sprunt.

[Guest RichLB]

Since the topic of this thread is Social Skills (aka by some as pet peeves), I assume you have used courtesy and kindly informed the smokers who offend you that you are hypersensitive to cigarette smoke. Using this "technique" and proclaiming that the problem is yours (which if may or may not be) avoids the "make wrong" game and is more likely to avoid the defensiveness of the smoker. It is true some smokers will refuse to accomodate your sensitivities, but when asked nicely to empathize with your discomfort I'm guessing most will respond with equal courtesy.

[Guest Soi10Tom]

YIKES!!!! I seem to have struck a few very raw nerves with some by commenting on my pet peeve of smoking and smokers smelly clothing in public accommodations.

 

This thread has become a classic study in defending the indefensible with twisted logic and psycho talk. "I have a right to smoke and wear smelly clothing, and you have a perfect right to kindly ask me to stop smoking or clean up, or move down wind from me, and if that doesn't work you can just get up an leave, because I have a protected right to offend and poison others air until they say something about it, but I really do know that I have no business smoking or wearing smelly clothing in the first place." This is what I hear as I read some fight to logically and rationally defend the indefensible.

 

I can hardly wait to see the psycho talk that most likely will follow in an attempt to shoot holes in my logic.

[Gaybutton]

This thread has become a classic study in defending the indefensible with twisted logic and psycho talk.

Perhaps you see it as indefensible. I don't see it as an issue that needs defending. The fact that you've decided it is indefensible doesn't make it indefensible. I'll say it for a third time. I'm not about to let people like you make a second class citizen out of me.

 

If I am not subjecting you to my smoke, then I have nothing that requires a defense. I'll go where I please and I'll wear what I please. What part of that needs defending? What part of that is twisted logic?

 

Here's some more twisted logic for you. I have a perfect right to be anywhere I want to be whether you like the way I smell or not. You have a perfect right to leave if you dislike it. What you do not have is any right whatsoever to tell me to leave because you don't like the way I smell, don't like my face, don't like the way I comb my hair, don't like my political opinions, or don't like anything else about me. Is that twisted enough for you?

 

If anyone's position is indefensible, it's your own, unless of course you can tell me what gives you the right to tell me I'm the one who can't be somewhere because you don't like it.

 

"Mr. GB, you are under arrest."

"I am? On what charge?"

"Soi10Tom informed you that he finds your odor offensive and he ordered you to leave. But you refused to comply. That's going to cost you 5 years, a heavy fine, and probation upon release. You will be confined at The Home for Those with Severe Odor an Appearance Deficits. Remember, your odor is already unacceptable. Any further odor violations can add years to your sentence, so whatever you do, don't fart"

[Guest]

As far as I'm concerned, people are welcome to smoke as long as it's outside, the smoke does not drift onto the next table & they dispose of the cigarette butt properly.

 

As an aside, I ban smoking inside AND outside my own house, but that's my prerogative on private property. At least there are no cigarette butts lying around.

 

If there's evidence of increased medical care costs being passed onto the taxpayer in countries where healthcare is funded by taxes, then I expect taxes on cigarettes to cover that cost.

 

Of course if people merely die a bit earlier, then the reduced pension liability might actually justify subsidising cigarettes to save the taxpayer from pension costs. Morally dubious though.

[Guest gay_grampa]

... for me is something smokers can not get away from. Yes, you can smoke in your own homes and elsewhere, but you can not stop the pronounced aroma of nicotine permeating the clothes you wear....

 

I am going to dispute this.

 

I am a smoker but I change my clothes twice daily for freshly washed/laundered clothes. I also shower at least twice daily. It's nothing to do with the cigarette smoke - it's because of the climate we live in here in Thailand.

But, because I look after my personal cleanliness I dispute that I or my clothes will ever smell of smoke except after I have returned home from a night out touring the bars.

 

You may be the type of guy who rarely changes his clothes but most of us do.

 

As for my pet peeve on smells I cannot stand some perfumes or colognes that are splashed all over by some people. They may smell nice to the wearer but some of these perfumes pervade everywhere and follow the wearer around like a cloud. There are even some very expensive perfumes that make me gag like the smell of burning chilli & pepper that you sometimes get when they are cooking on the street.

If you must mask your body odour with perfume then please use it sparingly - better still take a shower.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

 

As an aside, I ban smoking inside AND outside my own house, but that's my prerogative on private property. At least there are no cigarette butts lying around.

 

 

How interesting. that's sort of like what I do, except that it's in reverse. As a smoker, I do not feel the least bit reluctant to point out the front door to people who come into my home and admonish me for my habit, and tell them that they are welcome to use it immediately.

 

As an aside, a female relative once had the cheek to snatch my cigarette from my mouth, while in my house. I chucked my entire cup of coffee in her face before I told her that she was lucky I loved iced coffee as much as I loved smoking since I did not feel compelled to return rudeness with courtesy.

 

Xian

[Bob]

How interesting. that's sort of like what I do, except that it's in reverse. As a smoker, I do not feel the least bit reluctant to point out the front door to people who come into my home and admonish me for my habit, and tell them that they are welcome to use it immediately.

 

I'm a smoker for way too long but I don't agree with that view. Sure, I've got my rights to do whatever I want on my property but I've also got an obligation to not provide a smelly and unsafe environment for guests. If I have non-smoking guests over, I'm the one that goes outside if I need to light up. Just a simply matter of courtesy and safety.

 

Xian, if younger/older sister brings the baby or kids over to see Uncle Xian, you blow smoke in their faces?

[Guest fountainhall]

You will be confined at The Home for Those with Severe Odor an Appearance Deficits. Remember, your odor is already unacceptable. Any further odor violations can add years to your sentence, so whatever you do, don't fart"

In my view, that opening up of a new vista of smells and their effect on you, would help you realise how pronounced the smell of stale smoke on clothing and other fabric materials can be

 

because I look after my personal cleanliness I dispute that I or my clothes will ever smell of smoke except after I have returned home from a night out touring the bars

With respect, you don't smell the smoke on your clothes for the very reason you are a smoker. Zillions of people splash on a bit of after-shave or perfume each morning, but because they tend to use the same brand for years, the effect of its smell on them is only fleeting. Thereafter they cannot smell anything, but anyone sitting next to them might be aware of it for the next 2 or 3 hours.

 

a female relative once had the cheek to snatch my cigarette from my mouth, while in my house. I chucked my entire cup of coffee in her face

To get back to the topic of this thread - your social skills seem to need a bit of refining, Xian, if you feel it's right to throw coffee all over a relative's face - even in your own home and for whatever reason. Perfect if you never want to see her again, but not so good for cementing family ties, I'd have thought.

[Gaybutton]

help you realise how pronounced the smell of stale smoke on clothing and other fabric materials can be

What makes you think I don't already know? You need to change the nature of your quest so that you concentrate on getting me to care.

 

your social skills seem to need a bit of refining, Xian, if you feel it's right to throw coffee all over a relative's face

Wouldn't that depend on what kind of coffee it is? I would hate it if it was espresso. On the other hand, if it was a very good latte . . .

[Guest RichLB]

YIKES!!!! I seem to have struck a few very raw nerves with some by commenting on my pet peeve of smoking and smokers smelly clothing in public accommodations.

 

This thread has become a classic study in defending the indefensible with twisted logic and psycho talk. "I have a right to smoke and wear smelly clothing, and you have a perfect right to kindly ask me to stop smoking or clean up, or move down wind from me, and if that doesn't work you can just get up an leave, because I have a protected right to offend and poison others air until they say something about it, but I really do know that I have no business smoking or wearing smelly clothing in the first place." This is what I hear as I read some fight to logically and rationally defend the indefensible.

 

I can hardly wait to see the psycho talk that most likely will follow in an attempt to shoot holes in my logic.

 

I think you have not understood the source of the responses to your comments. It seems to me those of us who are smokers are more reacting to what appears to be an arrogant and self serving style than to the legitimacy of your objection.

 

As I read your second paragraph I am reminded of Hannity on Fox News. You state as fact your inferences. I think you would be hard pressed to find any of what you claim to be psycho babble in any of the previous posts. I have not read anything which suggests anyone is defending the wisdom of smoking. What I have read is solutions for those who object escaping from what they find offensive. Among those suggestions were:

1. Avoiding dining with those of us who smoke.

2. POLITELY asking smokers to be aware of the impact of their smoking on those sensitive to it.

3. Accepting that in open air environments smoking is permitted and others have a right to sit in areas where it is not.

4. And there were a few other suggestions, as well.

None of these appear to have anything to do with psychology, much less psycho babble. I see them merely as solutions for those who are as stridently opposed to the smoking habit of others as you appear to be.

 

And, as for your final paragraph, labeling an input as psycho babble to serve as a straw man and to deflect the illogic of your inputs seems, again, reminiscent of Fox News. It's a tired technique and only effective to the non-thinking.

[Guest fountainhall]

What makes you think I don't already know? You need to change the nature of your quest so that you concentrate on getting me to care.

 

Wouldn't that depend on what kind of coffee it is? I would hate it if it was espresso. On the other hand, if it was a very good latte . . .

Re the first point, from your comments over this and other threads, I know I can't - and so I won't. Discretion being the better part . . . etc.

 

Re the second, espresso is much too good to waste on a mere relative. Besides it might make a mess of my shirt - unless I was using my social skills and had taken it off in an attempt to avoid upsetting Xian with unnecessary smells.

[Gaybutton]

Re the first point, from your comments over this and other threads, I know I can't - and so I won't.

"It's not that I'm so smart. It's just that I stay with problems longer."

- Albert Einstein

[Guest fountainhall]

Console yourself, GB, with the words of Sir Arthur Phelps (1813 - 1875) from his tome "Friends in Council" of which I know precisely nothing:

 

What a blessing this smoking is! Perhaps the greatest that we owe to the discovery of America

[Gaybutton]

Console yourself, GB

I don't know why I am even posting on a thread about social skills when it is obvious that I have none . . .

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

I'm a smoker for way too long but I don't agree with that view. Sure, I've got my rights to do whatever I want on my property but I've also got an obligation to not provide a smelly and unsafe environment for guests. If I have non-smoking guests over, I'm the one that goes outside if I need to light up. Just a simply matter of courtesy and safety.

 

Xian, if younger/older sister brings the baby or kids over to see Uncle Xian, you blow smoke in their faces?

 

1. Since I am obviously a smoker, and make it clear to anyone I invite into my home that I am a heavy smoker, I do not feel obliged to make allowances if they choose to accept my invitation and then have the temerity to tell me what I can or cannot do in my own home. Nor do I feel that it is my place to remind them how a guest should behave. If their parents chose not to teach them such things, it is not my place to deliver a long lecture about the subject. (More about that further down).

 

2. As for that remark about blowing smoke at babies, all I can say is that you should definitely give up smoking. Why else should you assume that I am suffering a similar lack of intelligence?

 

 

To get back to the topic of this thread - your social skills seem to need a bit of refining, Xian, if you feel it's right to throw coffee all over a relative's face - even in your own home and for whatever reason. Perfect if you never want to see her again, but not so good for cementing family ties, I'd have thought.

 

Thank you for your concern concerning my social skills. They are fine. I would not smoke in a place where I shouldn't, nor would I presume to tell people what they can or cannot do in their own homes.

 

I definitely feel that it is not only right to throw coffee in any idiot's face if they try that kind of pulling out my cigarette stunt within the walls of my own home, I would not hesitate to do worse if they thought they could get away with more.

 

Besides, according to Chinese custom, as the next patriarch of the clan, I stand on my right to chastise any idiot relative who was not taught to respect the proper familial protocol. Believe me, after chucking coffee in their faces, I would not hesitate to complain to their parents about their children's lack of manners and complete want of respect for oher people's homes either - a great disgrace to a Chinese family. After that, I would definitely suggest some suitable form of chastisement - preferably with very thin birch rods and plenty of elbow grease (I assure you I did).

 

Protocol and tradition dictate that if my relatives be people properly brought up according to Confucian principles, they should then thank me for pointing out the deficits in their children's education AND suggesting suitable methods of correcting that. (They didn't. I guess they weren't properly brought up according to Chinese traditions, either.)

 

As for social skills, wasn't it the Brits who said that a man's home was his castle?

 

Wouldn't that depend on what kind of coffee it is? I would hate it if it was espresso. On the other hand, if it was a very good latte . . .

 

Mea culpa. It was very good Italian caffe latte.

 

Re the second, espresso is much too good to waste on a mere relative. Besides it might make a mess of my shirt - unless I was using my social skills and had taken it off in an attempt to avoid upsetting Xian with unnecessary smells.

 

Don't worry. I am not upset by unnecessary smells. I have no problem with people who want to smell the way the want to - it's my problem if I don't like it. Not theirs. It's up to me to move away if I think they stink.

 

My problem is with people who think that "social skills" mean I should toe their line and/or that they're being cute or whatever by pulling my cigarette from my mouth in my home.

[Gaybutton]

My problem is with people who think that "social skills" mean I should toe their line and/or that they're being cute or whatever by pulling my cigarette from my mouth in my home.

I'm with Xian on this one, although I don't think I would have tossed a cup of coffee into the person's face. Why waste a good cup of coffee? But if someone had done that to me anywhere he would have quickly realized he just made a big faux pas. If it occurred in my own home I would keep my coffee, but I would also immediately show him where the door is and make sure he uses it.

[Guest]

YIKES!!!! I seem to have struck a few very raw nerves with some by commenting on my pet peeve of smoking and smokers smelly clothing in public accommodations.

 

You are right. You have to have struck a few raw nerves. No problem there as debate is always welcome as long as we are respectful of each other.

 

I hate smoking and I hate the smell. I don't want to sit next to someone that smells horrible. I also hate sweat and don't want to sit next to someone that smells like they just got out of a gym. I also hate Polo cologne. It is disgusting IMHO. I am more of an Old Spice guy myself. But, if I sit next to someone who smells a smell that I don't like it is NOT my place to say, hey you stink. I should simply excuse myself and move on with my day.

 

I am not a smoker and never have been and never will be. BUT, I do love a good Cigar on occasion and I like the smell of Cigars. I know some who think Cigars smell worse than cigarettes. To each his own.

 

As long as someone who smokes, steps outside to smoke in a closed place, I'll deal with the smell of their breath and clothes. It is one of the things that I have to put up with if I choose to be with that person.

[Bob]

Even as a long-time smoker, I'm amazed at the bravado (if that's the correct word - perhaps it's more of a chest-thumping while crowing "I can do anything I want to do") of some of us smokers. Yea, I've got the right to smoke but I also know that it's unhealthy for me and for those around me and I also know that many people find the smell to be rather foul.

 

Smokers who insist on standing up for their "rights" while ignoring the distress they cause to other people are probably half the reason the non-smokers are so adverse to our habits. I didn't smoke in a restaurant long before it was illegal to do so as, not being totally stupid, I knew it was really making some other diners not enjoy their dinners. But, yea, I could have pulled out 18 cigarettes or a couple of cigars, beat on my chest for a moment, and then "exercised my smoking rights."

 

I still smoke a pack a day but it doesn't take much effort at all to do that with a little common sense so as not to piss off or harm the people around you.

[Gaybutton]

it's more of a chest-thumping while crowing "I can do anything I want to do") of some of us smokers.

I don't see it that way. I don't see anyone saying anything to indicate they would intentionally smoke where others would be subjected to it. The closest exception to that is Xian, who wants to at least be left alone about it in his own home and certainly does not appreciate someone grabbing the cigarette out of his mouth.

 

It works both ways. Some say, "Why should I be subjected to the stale smoke odor of your clothes?" On the other hand, I could say to one of the complainers on this thread, "Why should I be subjected to the sight of you manhandling boys, in full view of everyone, in Jomtien Complex?"

 

I have the option of looking elsewhere. He has the option of sitting elsewhere.

[Guest fountainhall]

I definitely feel that it is not only right to throw coffee in any idiot's face if they try that kind of pulling out my cigarette stunt within the walls of my own home, I would not hesitate to do worse if they thought they could get away with more.

 

Besides, according to Chinese custom, as the next patriarch of the clan, I stand on my right to chastise any idiot relative who was not taught to respect the proper familial protocol. Believe me, after chucking coffee in their faces, I would not hesitate to complain to their parents about their children's lack of manners and complete want of respect for oher people's homes either - a great disgrace to a Chinese family. After that, I would definitely suggest some suitable form of chastisement - preferably with very thin birch rods and plenty of elbow grease (I assure you I did)

I certainly defer to your knowledge of Chinese custom. But in the 20 years I spent living with Chinese, many of whom became and remain close friends, I never came across anyone who believed the correct way to discipline children of any age (since we now know it was a child who grabbed your cigarette and not, as I had assumed, someone older) is to throw coffee in their face. I'd have thought that would indicate considerable loss of face to the perpetrator - but I suppose it depends if there was anyone else there to witness the event.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

"I have the option of looking elsewhere. He has the option of sitting elsewhere."

 

That is not always a viable option as in my case when I was trapped beside a foul smelling smoker in the theater where I had paid $120.00 for my ticket. It also happens on planes and buses when all the seats are taken. Smokers do not realize just how nauseating the smell of stale smoke is since they are smelling it all the time. I never realized it until I quit smoking some 30+ years ago.

[kokopelli]

I do think that RichLB's list are not at all pet peeves but some good advice. Most likely all of us could benefit from paying attention to what he wrote. At one time I was guilty of cell phone use in public places but now cannot abide it anymore than I can abide smoking. I did find the responses to his post as both entertaining and enlightening.

I don't think having restrictions on smoking makes anyone a second class citizen any more then the restrictions and laws that govern driving, recreational drug use, etc make people second class. If anything, consideration of the advice by RichLB and others, make all of us model citizens, or at least, social paragons.

[Guest]

I do think that RichLB's list are not at all pet peeves but some good advice. Most likely all of us could benefit from paying attention to what he wrote.

 

I hope the smoking debate doesn't detract away from that great list as I too think it is good advice.