Social Skills

[Guest RichLB]

In a previous thread many of us talked about lapses in social skills, but we didn't go into any details what these may be. It occured to me we might profit by reviewing a few of them. I'm no Miss Manners myself, but some foibles we all make might go away if we are made aware of them.

 

1. When dining with a friend(s) be aware that receiving a phone call and engaging in a protracted conversation while ignoring your dining partner(s) is less than polite. It would be far better to tell your caller you are not free to talk at the moment and you will call them back.

 

2. Texting back and forth while with others delivers the message that those you are with are less important than the person your are texting. Woudn't it be better to do this when alone?

 

3. Other people's money is their money and how they choose to spend it is their business. If a person over tips or under tips that is a reflection on them, not you. It should not be a concern of others.

 

4. When introducing friends to one another provide some information beyond their name - for example, "This is Joe Blow and he's from Iceland and he's into collecting widgits" This gives the new people, at least, a starting point for conversation.

 

6. Recognize that your sex life is (or should be) a private matter. In the land of commerical sex endless rendezvous are not conguests, they are purchases. It is no more a reflection of your sex appeal than is your collection of porn.

 

7. Take reflected pride in the accomplishments of your friends. When talking about others it will be noticed if your anecdotes are complimentary or perjorative. An unbalanced mix will make your listeners wonder if you are equally uncharitable when they are not around.

 

8. Don't interupt the flow of conversation to put attention on yourself.

 

9. Ask questions. Doing so shows an interest in the thoughts and lives of others. And related to this, attempt to amplify the insights and inputs of others; not demean and minimize their views.

 

10. Learn to speak and think subjectively. This means accepting that what you think, hear, see, and believe is only a reflection of your own experience. It is one thing to say, "Walking Street sucks" and quite another to say, "I don't enjoy Walking Street"

 

11. Remember that we all have eyes. Few of us need to be told every guy that walks by is hot; we can see that for ourselves and it only undermines any flow of conversation to have it pointed out repeatecly.

 

12. Know that others who have boyfriends truly care for them. Most people want that relationship celebrated and not dismissed as an exercise in foolishness. It is always nice to hear the good sides of a boyfriend promoted and not their faults (real or imagined).

 

13. Although YOU may not be embarrassed talking about sex, the guests at the next table in a restaurant might not enjoy you loudly proclaiming what sex acts you engaged last night - specially if you are in a "straight" restaurant.

 

14. And, I suppose, I should include, "Don't be a know it all and tell others how to conduct their lives" by posting lists of what you think proper behavior might be like I just did!!

 

Anyway, that felt good getting it out. I assume the flames will come, but I'd much prefer others add to that list. I can stand a little brushing up on social graces myself.

[Guest TOQ]

Point well made, but which one ?

 

john

[Guest fountainhall]

4. When introducing friends to one another provide some information beyond their name - for example, "This is Joe Blow and he's from Iceland and he's into collecting widgits" This gives the new people, at least, a starting point for conversation.

 

13. Although YOU may not be embarrassed talking about sex, the guests at the next table in a restaurant might not enjoy you loudly proclaiming what sex acts you engaged last night - specially if you are in a "straight" restaurant

Interesting list and much to comment on. I'll stick to two.

 

Re item 4, I think many of us are sometimes stuck for a person's name - perhaps at a party with someone we only know a little, or have been introduced to and completely forgotten their name. Another person then comes to join you and you either have to be rude and say nothing or try to introduce that person you are with. Although meeting and talking with people for a variety of purposes has been a regular part of my business life for close to 40 years, I remain hopeless with names. Yes, as the experts suggest, I do mentally try to repeat the person's name over and over in my head and tack it on to every comment I make. Yet, faces I usually remember for decades; names for a couple of minutes - if I'm lucky. So I follow two little rules. After saying hello to the newcomer, I indicate the person I'm speaking to and say "Of course you two know each other, don't you?" Usually they will then go on to introduce themselves whilst I try again to remember the names. Alternatively, to avoid possibility embarrassing one of them, I'll rapidly excuse myself with a dash to the washroom. Does anyone have any better ideas?

 

Re item 13, I could not agree more - whether it is about sex or indeed anything else. There are some people whose vocal production is just naturally loud and who seem totally unable to modulate it in more intimate surroundings. It's like they have headphones over their ears and virtually shout when you speak to them. Talking on mobile phones in a confined space is one such ugly habit. Why on earth should I have to suffer every detail of a one-sided conversation? But it is becoming more and more common, and soon I expect I shall be in the minority for complaining about it.

[Gaybutton]

I agree with much of what you say, but I disagree with calling it a list of social skills. Would I be being unfair to instead call it a list of your personal peeves (although I would concede that many would agree with most of them)?

 

I think the ones I'm most often guilty of are taking phone calls while eating with others and responding to text messages. I try not to do that, but sometimes that really cannot be helped. If I can see it will be a call that will last for more than a minute or two, I excuse myself from the table. I don't think answering a text message or accepting a quick call is being rude. I do see it as rude if one is going to spend time on the phone having a long conversation while eating with others.

 

Re item 4, I think many of us are sometimes stuck for a person's name

That definitely describes me. I'm terrible with names. If I meet someone new I always make an advance apology and explain that I'll have to ask his name multiple times before I'll remember. It never fails. Most of the time when someone tells me his name, two seconds later I've already forgotten. It's kind of like looking at your watch and you still don't know what time it is or walking into a room and you can't remember why you went in there.

[Guest Astrrro]

9. Ask questions. Doing so shows an interest in the thoughts and lives of others.

 

If you are genuinely interested in what the other person knows or thinks that's great.

Otherwise, it's just a technique.

 

But above all make sure repeated questions don't come off as an interogation.

[Guest Soi10Tom]

I would agree with Gaybutton; it seems to me to be more a list of pet peeves. I think that most people are in general agreement with most if not all of RichLB's pet peeves. I'll add my 3 additional pet peeves to the list.

 

1) TMI (Too Much Information) people who talk non stop about anything and everything as if silence for more than two chews was a social offense. Also, included would be those that tell way to much about their sex lives. I remember one member of the community saying, "I never take a boy off twice if he doesn't cum in my mouth." as I was about to take in a mouth full of pudding.

 

2) Smoking in public eateries or other public accommodation where others are left no choice except to "suck it up" and sit through the smoke or leave. Also, included would be those that are not smoking but go out to dinner smelling like an ash try.

 

3) Those who make dinner dates and then come down with amnesia or early dementia symptoms.

[Gaybutton]

2) Smoking in public eateries or other public accommodation where others are left no choice except to "suck it up" and sit through the smoke or leave. Also, included would be those that are not smoking but go out to dinner smelling like an ash try.

That brings to mind a peeve of my own. I'm a smoker. I think I'm as polite about it as anyone should expect. I do not subject others to my smoke. But no matter what I do, it is still not good enough for some. My response to that is "too bad." If I am considerate enough to make sure I am not subjecting others to my smoke, then I'm not about to stand for being relegated to second class citizenship. I have a few rights too.

[Guest RichLB]

If you are genuinely interested in what the other person knows or thinks that's great.

Otherwise, it's just a technique.

 

you are right, I think. It is a technique, but one which greases the wheels of social discourse - especially when meeting a new person. I have found it useful when being introduced to someone to find a way to ask at least three questions about them - even generic ones like how long have you been in Thailand, where are you from, what did you do before retirement, etc. Hopefully, the answers will reveal a starting point to finding a common ground. If, after this effort, I notice that the other person has asked nothing from me, I deduce they are not interested in anything I might think or say. That results in a rapid loss of interest in them on my part.

[Guest RichLB]

I would agree with Gaybutton; it seems to me to be more a list of pet peeves. I think that most people are in general agreement with most if not all of RichLB's pet peeves. I'll add my 3 additional pet peeves to the list.

 

 

Call them pet peeves or social skills, they are skill, to me, elements to which socially adept people attend. To dismiss them as "peeves" seems to diminish their importance and relegate them to mere personal (and not general) gripes.

[Bob]

I'd also characterize the list as a list of pet peeves versus an instructional guide (those that break most of these rules are not that easily trained in the first place...).

 

I do forget names and, for years, I'd do a song-and-dance routine just dodging around having to actually say the name that I forgot. Nowadays, more often than not, I just say something to the effect: Sorry, my memory is terrible and I simply can't remember your name. The outcome is usually fine although once or twice I've actually had somebody get a little angry over it (which, in that case, I'm glad I couldn't recall the name...haha).

 

As for the telephone calls while out to dinner, I think your time period, GB, is a bit much. I'll answer and say something like: Hi, Tom, I'm having dinner with friends, can I call you back? If (on rare occasion the caller can't wait), I'll just say something to my friends like "sorry, guys, I've got to take this" and walk away from the table with my phone. Nobody ought to be out to dinner with friends and still be yakking in their face for a minute (or, for that matter, more than 10 seconds or so).

[Gaybutton]

As for the telephone calls while out to dinner, I think your time period, GB, is a bit much. I'll answer and say something like: Hi, Tom, I'm having dinner with friends, can I call you back?

That's fine, if it's Tom . . .

[Bob]

That's fine, if it's Tom . . .

 

Lol. Hey, you don't me wasting bandwidth and posting all the possibilities, do you?

 

But, don't worry, it won't be Tom. He told me you'd be the last guy on earth he'd call!

[Guest shebavon]

That brings to mind a peeve of my own. I'm a smoker. I think I'm as polite about it as anyone should expect. I do not subject others to my smoke. But no matter what I do, it is still not good enough for some. My response to that is "too bad." If I am considerate enough to make sure I am not subjecting others to my smoke, then I'm not about to stand for being relegated to second class citizenship. I have a few rights too.

I have to agree with Tom on this one. It seems that the law of smoke is that the smoke will always flow directly into the nose of a non-smoker.

 

No matter how hard I try to accept it as one of those negatives I put up with from my friends, consistent chain smoking is still a hard one for me to put up with.

 

If one is sitting for long periods in a restaurant, especially with non-smokers around, does the smoker really have to light up less than a minute after having finished one? Does not the nicotine fix last longer than 3 seconds? Is that not the smoker saying that the non-smoker does not matter, since he or she is obviously nervous or bored, and looking for something to do with his/her hands?

 

In mixed company both smokers and non-smokers should work to make each other feel catered to. The non-smoker should try to avoid over-preaching to the smoker, and the smoker should try to limit his smoking to a reasonable limit.

[Gaybutton]

He told me you'd be the last guy on earth he'd call!

Strange. He told me I would be second to last . . .

[Guest RichLB]

Strange. He told me I would be second to last . . .

I hope this thread doesn't deteriorate into Sawatdee style sidetracks.

 

But, back to the cigarette smoking issue. I am a smoker and have to agree with those who find smelling my smoke distateful. There really is no good defense for smoking around others who object to it. If we smokers insist on lighting up after a meal I suppose the solution is for us to decline invitations to dine with those who complain - or for those who strenuously object to not extend those invitations to smokers. If the concession of dining outside a closed area or not smoking in a bar is not sufficient, both the smoker and the non-smoker have little other choice.

[aussie_]

I was sitting in a bar recently with my boyfriend who has excellent english language skills. Across from us a loud farang was telling the owner of the bar about all of his recent conquests and sexual prowess with bar boys.

 

I felt that the farang showed a total lack of respect for all of us, especially zero sensitivity to my Thai friend. We left.

[Gaybutton]

I felt that the farang showed a total lack of respect for all of us, especially zero sensitivity to my Thai friend and the bar owner looked at me as to say "will this guy please shut the f... up". We left.

It's a shame that the bar owner didn't tell the guy that he needs to control himself or needs to leave.

[Gaybutton]

I hope this thread doesn't deteriorate into Sawatdee style sidetracks.

I think we just discovered your 15th peeve . . .

[Guest]

This is one of the best threads I have seen. Thank you guys!

 

I agree with many on the list and don't mind calling it social skills or pet peeves. I think it is a Miss Manners type of list and we all can mind our P and Q's from time to time.

 

I wish I had some conquests to tell. It has been way to dry for me for too long. I am in LA and went to pick up a guy I met online in Korea town. Guess what? He was the only white guy living there. Just my luck!

 

I don't answer my phone at dinner unless it is from family in the States and then I take the call and go outside and talk to them. They never call my phone unless important issues arise.

 

I was out to dinner with some friends in West Hollywood last weekend and we had dinner at a local place. One guy was constantly texting. My phone was in my purse (I mean man bag). I didn't check my messages until after dinner.

 

In this day, you can get all your e-mail and etc over the phone, I find it hard not to check on things from time to time but I try to do it privately. I excused myself once during the evening to go to restroom and I will check e-mail as I walk to the toilet.

 

I don't know what I'll do when the new IPad comes out.

[Guest]

I do not subject others to my smoke. But no matter what I do, it is still not good enough for some.

 

That's an unfortunate scenario where you are suffering for the behaviour, or even the traditional behaviour of many other smokers.

 

Eventually attitudes may change as smoking bans in public places spread globally & us non-smokers get more relaxed when we are protected from being poisoned by law.

[Guest fountainhall]

I have another which is a little like the smoking discussion. Returning from Hong Kong last night on a flight that was completely full (380 passengers - air traffic in the region is obviously picking up fast), the Thai businessman next to me removed his shoes. Nothing unusual in that as many, including me, tend to do that on an aircraft. The problem was this guy's shoes/socks/feet gave off a truly awful odour. Either he has a medical issue with his feet, or he never washes them (unusual for a Thai) nor puts deodoriser in his shoes. Had there been a spare seat, I would have moved, but there were none. Frankly, I was stumped as to what to do. I suppose I should just have told him and asked him to put his shoes back on. But what if he said he could smell nothing and would not agree to do so? I could also have gone a less direct route by asking the purser to speak to him (wonder if they get that sort of comment very often?). After thinking about it, I chickened out, dabbed some cologne under my nose (didn't help much) and looked forward to arrival at BKK. I know I should have done something - but what?

[Guest fountainhall]

It seems that the law of smoke is that the smoke will always flow directly into the nose of a non-smoker

There's an interesting debate going on in Britain's Guardian newspaper about the government's declared aim of reducing the number of smokers by half - from a fifth of the population to one tenth. As the writer of the main article says:

 

Smoking isn't a habit

[Gaybutton]

No doubt GB and others will take me to task.

You're right. I'm going to take you to task. Now I have to stay home and can't go to a restaurant, a bar, or any other public place because somebody might not like the way my clothes smell? I am perfectly willing to try to see that my smoke doesn't bother anyone. That's my problem. But if it comes down to you taking offense to the way my clothes smell, my friend, that's your problem. Like I said, I, for one, won't stand for being relegated to second class citizenship. If you don't like the way my clothes smell, then when I show up you can leave.

 

Of course, I can come with no clothes at all, but talk about offensive!!!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

A few years ago I was in the theater in NYC ($120 for the ticket) and the guy sitting next to me smelled so bad of stale cigarette smoke it was nauseating. I had no choice, but to suffer through it. I tried leaning to the opposite side, but I couldn't escape the smell.

[Guest RichLB]

I wonder if righteous indignation qualifies as an offense against "social skills" or pet peeves. I can appreciate that some may find the risidual odors on the clothes and hair of us smokers unpleasant. Our choice to smoke - as stupid as it is - is still a choice. I would understand someone who has such a sensitive nose choosing to avoid me, Although, I don't feel it is legitimate to attempt to control my choices to accomodate what appears to be those of the hypersensitive. True social skill is measured by one's ability to deal with what they feel are indignities. Hopefully, those methods do not include insults and belittling.