Guest Astrrro Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Strange that the media didn't publish a pic of the accused or list the establishments that he owned. Quote
Guest Mark7711 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Interesting. Is this the Sunee Plaza Info site? This is not information from the SPI site but the news paper that ran the original article. As a member of SPI that has attended every meeting ever held I can categorically sate this quote is inaccurate, the bar owner in question never applied to join SPI. Mark Quote
Guest Mark7711 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 According to a spokesman from the Sunee Plaza Association which is made up of more than 30 reputable businesses in Sunee Plaza, Quote
Guest Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Thanks Mark. What is the difference if you know between the Sunee Plaza Association and the Sunee Plaza Info groups? Are they the same or different? Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Sounds like some sort of witch hunt and the witches are foreigners? Good! This is the kind of witch hunt I'm in favor of. My only objection is that they seem to be singling out foreign bar owners. I don't see that as discriminatory. I see that as a step in the right direction. I believe they will go after Thai scofflaw bar owners too. If they can rid Sunee Plaza of the under-age boys, they will also be ridding Sunee Plaza of the plague of pedophiles that come to Thailand and ruin things for everyone else. I think Sunee Plaza has been dying a slow death because of the under-age boys and pedophiles. Many farang are reluctant to even go to Sunee Plaza for fear of being caught up in this, stigmatized, and fear of taking a boy off who claims he is 18 and can even show ID that he is 18, but it turns out he was under-age anyway. I think most farang customers, the ones who have no intention of taking an under-age boy off for sex, are sick and tired of having to play "Guess His Age" instead of being able to rest assured that the boy of interest is at least 18 years old. The bars that do make sure their boys are 18+ and are not drug users suffer too. Less customers come to Sunee Plaza in the first place and the same fears affect them in the "legitimate" bars. I don't see any reason why people have to be afraid to go to Sunee Plaza and I agree that it's high time something substantial is done so that people can have a good time instead of having to wonder who's watching and if he is falling victim to a boy trying to dupe him about his age. Also, I have yet to meet anyone whose idea of a pleasant evening includes being inside a bar when the police stage a raid. I hope that this kind of move will clean out Sunee Plaza. I also hope the move to legalize prostitution succeeds. And I hope this kind of crackdown affects any bar at which under-age boys are employed regardless of the nationality of the owner. But I still don't understand why the FBI is involved. The fact that the FBI, an American police agency, apparently was involved in the investigation and arrest of a French national operating an illegal bar in Thailand is still on my "I Don't Get It" list. Quote
kokopelli Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 A witch hunt in the sense that people are pointing fingers, jumping to conclusions and even convicting the farang in question without knowing the real facts. Quote
kokopelli Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Furthermore, in the case of the Salem Witch Hunts, it started with finger pointing, hysteria, an official investigation, a trial, a conviction, sentences and even death penalties. But later an exoneration , there were not witches, just some greedy people who were playing the system for their own self interests. Hopefully that is not the case here. As far as ridding the Plaza of underage boys, I not so sure that closing some bars will accomplish that. Many of the street urchins seem not to be associated with bars but just ply their trade in the street. A cop on the beat would likely be more effective. Time will tell as more facts are made public. Maybe. Quote
Guest Mark7711 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Thanks Mark. What is the difference if you know between the Sunee Plaza Association and the Sunee Plaza Info groups? Are they the same or different? They are two completely separate groups, one has 30 members and one I can Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 without knowing the real facts. True. I know only the unreal facts. And believe me, the facts I know are unreal! I think you know as well as anyone that a number of bars in Sunee Plaza have under-age boys. What other facts do you need? If the Frenchman who was arrested after having been the target of these investigations turns out to be not guilty, I'll be happy for him, but still there is no denying about the under-age boys working in the bars. I'll take a witch hunt for the people responsible for it, and burning the witches at the stake would probably be more merciful than what they'll face if and when they're finally caught. Quote
Guest HeyGay Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Come on lets get real here .....Surely to get a conviction they must have evidence, as they did with the last 3 guys who were all eventually shipped out the country, they must have a boy who can corroborate these stories, they did not catch him in the club/Bar with underage boys 12 so its all hearsay as far as I can read at the moment, must be more to it than this or why would the French and the FBI be involved, unless they say that to give the story some credence, will we ever know, will he be released one day soon, well we will have to find out, if he has money this could help. Seems the bigger the story the more they pay I know one of the other guys handed 1 million to be sent home. Quote
Guest HeyGay Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Come on lets get real here .....Surely to get a conviction they must have evidence, as they did with the last 3 guys who were all eventually shipped out the country, they must have a boy who can corroborate these stories, they did not catch him in the club/Bar with underage boys 12 so its all hearsay as far as I can read at the moment, must be more to it than this or why would the French and the FBI be involved, unless they say that to give the story some credence, will we ever know, will he be released one day soon, well we will have to find out, if he has money this could help. Seems the bigger the story the more they pay I know one of the other guys handed 1 million to be sent home. My information tells me this man is walking about, out of prison I may be wrong but I dont think so my souses are usually very good? Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 Come on lets get real here .....Surely to get a conviction they must have evidence Must have evidence? In Thailand???? With a farang bar owner accused of selling under-age sex? Maybe he'll somehow get out of it, but I doubt it even if he has the big bucks. There's already been too much publicity. But let's say he can get out of it. He might have a shot at it if they grant him bail. If they don't then even if proven innocent, by the time the case makes it to court he already will have spent a great deal of time in a Thai prison. It usually takes months, often more than a year, before cases here ever see the first light of day in Thai courts. I think the best he can hope for is getting a reduced sentence if he confesses. No matter what, by now I think, without mentioning the name, you already know at which bar the arrest took place. I also think you are probably also well aware that particular bar does employ under-age boys. No matter what the outcome, I don't think I would want to be in his shoes. There's one way to find out if this incident has frightened the bar owners. Within the next several days I'm going to take a look at some of these bars myself and see if there are obviously under-age boys still working. While I would love not to see under-age boys anymore, my guess is that nothing has really changed at all. We'll soon see. Quote
Guest HeyGay Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 As I said GB I have been informed, he is already free and walking about town? I know also the BIB had always difficulty getting his 'Beer Money' from him I dont think that goes down well I have been told. Quote
atri1666 Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 From a good friend i know after short time he already was again free. Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 he is already free and walking about town From a good friend i know after short time he already was again free. Free as in the charges have been dropped or free as in he's out on bail? Has anyone who has been to the bars since this incident noticed any changes in regards to under-age boys? Does this arrest mean something for once, or is it just another farce? Quote
Guest Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 A witch hunt in the sense that people are pointing fingers, jumping to conclusions and even convicting the farang in question without knowing the real facts. I agree. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt until all facts are known. They are two completely separate groups, one has 30 members and one I can't say approximately but it varied from 6 to 3, both groups have similar agendas but different approaches to achieving their aims. Mark. I am curious who this Sunee Plaza Association is and who their spokesperson is. I also wonder if those businesses that participate in it agree with the spokesperson's newspaper quote. Lastly, if 30 businesses are involved with this group do they have a site? A place that lists the business that participate? Who is the spokesperson? I was told the spokesperson for the Sunee Plaza Association and the SPI people are the same. I guess that does not mean the 2 groups are the same. I am sure there is a great deal of crossover between the groups. But, this is the first I have heard of the Sunee Plaza Association and can't seem to find any information on them. The Sunee Plaza Info people have 30 associated businesses and the article said that the group they were referring to was made up of 30 businesses. Sounds like the article was referring to the Sunee Plaza Info group to me. If the groups have similar agendas, I hope that agenda is to promote Sunee Plaza as a place to visit and have a drink and relax in a safe environment. I am not sure how their approaches are going to be that different. It sounds to me like the spokesperson that was quoted has an agenda of his own. I am not sure what that agenda is. But, I am not in the know on this one. Marc your business has been above board for many years and it is a true model for other businesses in the area. I am glad it is there to shed a light on how profitable a well-run business can be that does not cater to underage in Sunee. You are to be commended on the great job your company does and has done for years. I hope that it continues to succeed and that you will continue to be profitable through this and anything else that happens around you and hope that the failure of other businesses does not affect yours. Has anyone who has been to the bars since this incident noticed any changes in regards to under-age boys? I am curious to this as well and also curious to know if the bars in question are open or closed. Lastly, what is this Pattaya-Times newspaper? I have seen little of it until now. Is this an actual newspaper or an online blog? And even more lastly, I still don't get what the American FBI had to do with any of this and why money was spent from US taxpayers on this. UNLESS, there is more to come. Quote
Guest Soi10Tom Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 Free as in the charges have been dropped or free as in he's out on bail? Has anyone who has been to the bars since this incident noticed any changes in regards to under-age boys? Does this arrest mean something for once, or is it just another farce? A farce, NO. It is a for profit business. First he hires $$$$ an attorney. Then he is out on bail $$$...and where is the bail money now, how much ended in the official court's hand after it was passed up through the police$$$ and judges$$$ hands??? Now his attorney$$$, who is making more money$$$, will start shopping the price$$$ to make it go away. If his attorney is successful at this level, problem solved$$$. If his attorney$$$ is not successful at this level it then goes to trial$$$; he will be convicted, and then he will have to post a new bail$$$$$$...much higher this time...and the passing of the money$$$ up the line begins anew. Now the negotiations for the price$$$$ of making the conviction go away begins to get serious. If he lacks the funds$$$ required at this point the Bangkok Hilton awaits his arrival, but bail can continue for several more years. If he has the cash$$$$$$ required at this point the conviction is overturned and he is off the hook. That is how the game is played....it is all about the money; his future depends on his cash resources. Quote
Guest Posted January 29, 2010 Posted January 29, 2010 That is how the game is played.... LOL Thanks Soi10Tom for your great analysis. I do wonder if you are missing something. Perhaps money will play a pivotal role in this? Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 29, 2010 Author Posted January 29, 2010 That is how the game is played....it is all about the money; his future depends on his cash resources. Unfortunately I think you are right. I really had thought that since even the FBI was involved this would be one case that is going somewhere. While I still don't understand why the FBI was involved, if indeed it really was, I would have thought they wouldn't bother if there was any reason to believe that nothing substantial would result. Now I'm not so sure. If nothing comes of this case, I believe it will only backfire and actually encourage some bar owners to keep hiring under-age boys and make the Sunee Plaza problems even worse. Quote
kokopelli Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 I am curious to this as well and also curious to know if the bars in question are open or closed. One bar, owned at one time by the accused, was closed last night. Quote
Guest Soi10Tom Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 A farce, NO. It is a for profit business. First he hires $$$$ an attorney. Then he is out on bail $$$...and where is the bail money now, how much ended in the official court's hand after it was passed up through the police$$$ and judges$$$ hands??? Now his attorney$$$, who is making more money$$$, will start shopping the price$$$ to make it go away. If his attorney is successful at this level, problem solved$$$. If his attorney$$$ is not successful at this level it then goes to trial$$$; he will be convicted, and then he will have to post a new bail$$$$$$...much higher this time...and the passing of the money$$$ up the line begins anew. Now the negotiations for the price$$$$ of making the conviction go away begins to get serious. If he lacks the funds$$$ required at this point the Bangkok Hilton awaits his arrival, but bail can continue for several more years. If he has the cash$$$$$$ required at this point the conviction is overturned and he is off the hook. That is how the game is played....it is all about the money; his future depends on his cash resources. If there was ever any doubt that justice is for sale in Thailand....UNBLIEVEABLE, One has to wonder how much this cost the North Korean Government and how the $$$$ was split up by the police, courts, and who ever else was in on the fix!! http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/31907/korea-arms-plane-crew-to-go-free Quote
Guest JBee Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 The Sunee Plaza Info people have 30 associated businesses and the article said that the group they were referring to was made up of 30 businesses. Sounds like the article was referring to the Sunee Plaza Info group to me. yes, we are the same group. We are willing to go about removing the problem any way we can from this area. The police need to go after anyone who is breaking the law. Once the area of rid of these creatures the other businesses with thrive. Quote
Guest Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 yes, we are the same group. We are willing to go about removing the problem any way we can from this area. The police need to go after anyone who is breaking the law. Once the area of rid of these creatures the other businesses with thrive. So, you goal is to go after anyone breaking what law? underage? prostitution? gambling? drugs? I applaud your efforts. Good luck on your quest. BTW, just wondering if you could also enforce the no littering ordinance when you have time. I hate it when my shoes step in gum. I love Singapore's clean streets. A true role model for Sunee. Quote
Guest Mark7711 Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 yes, we are the same group. We are willing to go about removing the problem any way we can from this area. The police need to go after anyone who is breaking the law. Once the area of rid of these creatures the other businesses with thrive. JBEE This in NOT SPI official policy Please do not make remarks and comments or statements on behalf of SPI group as a whole if you are not prepared to name yourself and your bar. Mark The Krazy Dragon Quote
Guest SuneePlazaInfo Posted January 30, 2010 Posted January 30, 2010 yes, we are the same group. We are willing to go about removing the problem any way we can from this area. The police need to go after anyone who is breaking the law. Once the area of rid of these creatures the other businesses with thrive. As the webmaster and coordinator for SPI I must comment that what has been said is not factual. SPI is an advertising medium for some Sunee Plaza businesses and has no official policy on any matter whatsoever. Any individual member has the right to express their own views, but can not quote for SPI as a whole. The comment quoted above MAY be the view of an individual bar owner. I would also like to say for the record that the quote in Pattaya Times did not come from any official spokesman. Guy SPI webmaster Quote
