Being assertive with thai boys

[Guest taylorsquare]

I was sitting outside the Ambience cafe tonight,very good service and nice staff.

 

Anyway i noticed in the street outside a Thai ladyboy screech and shout to a farang that she/he knew who was walking down the street.

The ladyboy rushes up to the farang(he look like visting tourist)and shouts out his name,the farang stops,hugs the ladyboy etc and then makes small talk,the ladyboy then says you give me 100 baht?(i actually heard this)and without hestation the farang reaches into his pocket and gives it to him.

Its not easy being assertive and in that situation saying NO.

These guys are good at making you feel guilty by saying no.

I know or read on other forums where many farang say "later" to thai boys who ask them for money or to off them or to take them to disco,what they really mean is.NO,but they say "later".

I think if i lived here i would have to become very assertive sometimes and if that means offending people so be it.

Its not easy saying NO,i sometimes have felt guilty in the past week in Thailand saying this and said "later".

 

Same with tipping boy at the end he says"you give me more money for taxi/food whatever,can you easily say no?

[Bob]

I occasionally get the drift that you're not as naive as some of your postings suggest and that you're just winding us up.

 

Presuming that's not the case, why not just act like a normal, reasonable, human being? You can say "no thank you" with a smile, can't you? Is it that hard to do?

[Guest taylorsquare]

yES it is,sometimes sorry to say.

Especially if other people are watching or hearing.

I feel guilty ,i prefer to somehow dodge the incident,by saying "ok later".

I dont know why.

[Bob]

I'm curious as to why you're posting some of this stuff here. You want us simply to know what you're doing? You want people to offer comments or advice about it (if the latter, that appears to be somewhat of a wasted effort....)?

[Guest taylorsquare]

YES.

[Bob]

Ok, I'm finished. And I'll be uncharacteristically nice and not say what I think is going on here. Have a happy life.

[Guest]

I've never had this happen, but I have also never been with a lady boy.

 

Would not hesitate to give a very emphatic "No thank you", unless I felt a gift was due.

[Gaybutton]

I can't be sure whether Taylorsquare is pulling our legs for us or not, but he is bringing up an issue that many farang have experienced . . . the Thai boys making pleas for money. I think by now we all are well aware of the sick grandmother-dead water buffalo ploys, but I think it might be interesting to have a discussion here of some of the methods people have encountered that the boys use in attempts to squeeze money out of us and how we deal with it.

 

I'll start by mentioning the "I no have money pay room" ploy. I get that one regularly toward the end of one month and the beginning of the next. The calls usually start coming in about 3 days before the end of the month and continue to about the 5th day of the next month. With cases in which I know the boy quite well and feel that he has a legitimate problem, I sometimes do give him the money. If I'm suspicious I tell him I'll give him the money, but only if I go with him to pay the bill. If he tries to give me reasons why I can't go with him (usually it's "If she see farang, it very expensive") then he gets nothing. With others, I follow the Nancy Reagan rule. I just say no.

 

I've got one right now trying to hit me up because he wants to get plastic surgery on his face. It seems he doesn't like the bridge of his nose. I know he would really get the surgery if he can get the money, but not one baht of it will come from me. Besides, if anyone could use plastic surgery, I could use it myself much more than him.

 

Taylorsquare seems to conjure up this "other people are looking" thing a little too often for me. Some kid comes up to him and tries to get 100 baht from him. And he gives it to him not because he wants to, but because he's worried about what other people will think if they are looking. I would guess that if anyone was really looking their thoughts were more inclined toward "What a fool" if Taylorsquare really gave the boy the money instead of telling the boy to get lost.

 

A simple 'no' usually does the trick. Sometimes the boy will try to make you feel guilty. If it's a boy you only know from having taken him off once or twice, where does the feeling guilty part come in? You did already tip him, did you not?

 

Sometimes the boy won't take no for an answer and he persists. I still just say no and go on about my business. It never takes them long to figure out that trying to pressure me into handing over money isn't going to work.

 

Sometimes I do feel badly when I say no to a boy, but I also know that as soon as you give in, there will be no end to it. A little here and a little there, and before you know it, you're broke.

 

Taylorsquare, if you were serious in your post, then instead of handing over money because people are looking, I suggest keeping your money and you start being the one looking at them. Let them be the ones handing over their own money if they disliked that you were refusing to hand over your own. If I had overheard the boy trying to get you to give money, yes I probably would have looked. But my looking would have been rooting for you to tell the boy that he can forget it. I would have admired that. But if I saw you give in and hand it over to him, my first thought would have been, "There goes another one suffering from the disease called Schmuckus Maximus."

 

I do what I can if I feel it is appropriate for me or if it makes me feel good to do it, but sometimes I have to make it clear to these boys that I didn't work my butt off all my life to come over here and start giving it away.

[firecat69]

Anybody who has spent time here has experienced these excuses for getting money.

 

Gaybutton is right "just say no". Most of the time that is enough. No cannot!!!!! These boys understand cannot, they use it all the time for what they are not willing to do.(lol)

 

I have a boy last trip that I have seen last 3 years. He is fun but this trip I no sooner pay him he is sms 'ing me , can he see me again.

 

Lost phone, had motorbike accident blah blah blah. Can he borrow money. I told him in no uncertain terms . I pay him fair amount every time I see him, more then he gets from most and I don't appreciate him expecting anymore. He never got it so I just stopped replying to him or answering his calls. Now he gets it.

[Rogie]

Its not easy saying NO,i sometimes have felt guilty in the past week in Thailand saying this and said "later".

 

Same with tipping boy at the end he says"you give me more money for taxi/food whatever,can you easily say no?

 

Saying 'no' comes easy to some and not-so-easy for others. If you are in the it's not easy saying NO category you either give in every time or you make the effort to build yourself a bit of backbone. As for saying 'later' that might work if you are only in town for a few days but if you are an ex-pat or longterm visitor surely you are adding fuel to the fire by torturing them with the prospect of (non-existent) money 'tomorrow'.

[firecat69]

Saying 'no' comes easy to some and not-so-easy for others. If you are in the it's not easy saying NO category you either give in every time or you make the effort to build yourself a bit of backbone. As for saying 'later' that might work if you are only in town for a few days but if you are an ex-pat or longterm visitor surely you are adding fuel to the fire by torturing them with the prospect of (non-existent) money 'tomorrow'.

 

 

I agree . It gets easier with experience. Also in all honesty , it may sometimes have to do with what you are giving boy. I give boy the high end of expected tip if he does what he said he would do. I make no differentiation between Bar Boy and gayromeo.

 

Thats just me and i am not casting aspersions on those who offer considerably less. The boy is always free to.say no.

 

I am just saying it may be harder to say no when all you have given the boy is 500 baht.

[Guest joseph44]

Boy comes to me and asks: "Auw tang noi"

I just say: "Mai mee tang" and continue my 'trip'.

Boys stays behind, puzzled and shouts: "Joke na!"

 

At the beginning I gave them what they asked for, usually THB 20 for a meal, but now........

[Gaybutton]

It gets easier with experience.

That is true. As I mentioned on another thread, it does take more time and experience for many to learn what goes on here and how to deal with it. It's all a question of learning how to play the game. The boys have been playing it a long time. Their easiest targets, of course, are the newbies who have never played it.

 

That's not to say they boys don't legitimately need all the money they can get, but often they're going to have to get it from someone else, especially if I feel that I've already done my share.

 

Also, I think a factor is what the boy has or has not done to merit more from my wallet. I'm not an ATM and I'm not a charity and I'm not a benefactor. To me, if a boy wants money from me, then my first thought is what has he done to deserve it?

 

"They make their money the old fashioned way. They earn it."

- John Houseman, Smith-Barney commercial

[Guest RichLB]

I follow the Nancy Reagan rule. I just say no.

 

 

The operative word in that statement is "just". If you follow that with an explanation or excuse, you are settng yourself up for a manipulative argument. "My money hasn't come in yet" is responded to with "When you have". "Sorry, I don't have any money right now" gets a "When you have?" "Sorry, I only have large bills with me" earns a "I get change". And so on. Nancy was right, JUST say no.

[Bob]

Fully agree with the "just say no" comments and the key, to me, is how you say it. There's a way to say something firmly and politely and it's probably better to keep it short and simple. There's no need to be either a "Schmuckus Maximus" or an "Assertive Maximus."

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I learned a long time ago to say no without the guilt through the help of a good self help book: When I Say No I feel Guilty.

Before I moved here I had met a rather nice guy (I thought). We corresponded when I was back in the US. When I returned for another visit he called me and wanted to come see me. I told him I didn't feel well. He said he really wanted to see me. I said he could come meet me, but only for a drink. He turned up, we had a drink and I told him I was going to bed since I wasn't feeling well and gave him 500 baht for his trip. He said, "Can you give me 1000 baht?" I held out my hand; he handed me the 500 baht. I put it in my pocket and said "Good night". I didn't feel there was any need for an explanation. He understood his mistake and toddled off with his tail between his legs.

[Gaybutton]

I learned a long time ago to say no without the guilt

Some may remember Dr. William Glasser, who in the 1970's was popular with his "Reality Therapy." One of his basic concepts was that people literally choose their feelings, especially when it comes to guilt feelings. I attended one of his lectures and I clearly remember him saying that guilt applies only if you have intentionally done something to harm someone else. Then you can feel guilty. But when it comes to other situations, especially situations you did not initiate, then there really is no reason for guilt to apply.

 

Back in Florida, a very close friend was, and still is, a well known clinical psychologist. He told me that he gets more business because of guilt feelings than from all the other psychological problems people experience combined. His quote was, "Guilt is bullshit." He often talked about the difference between feeling sorry for someone and feeling guilt. His position was that feeling sorry for someone is ok, but it is not the same as guilt. He said that as soon as people let feeling sorry turn into feeling guilty, now you have placed yourself in the position of taking responsibility.

 

I think a good example of what he meant applies in Thailand when a boy asks you for help paying for his room. "I not have money for pay room." If you feel sorry for him, that's one thing. But if you refuse his plea for help and he really does lose his room, then you might feel that it was somehow your fault because you could have helped him, but didn't. That's when guilt feelings really get to many people and it can be a very difficult feeling to reconcile. Then, the next time a boy asks for help, now you fork over not because you truly wanted to, but mainly to avoid going through the guilt feelings again. It can be very difficult for many to deal with that.

 

You don't have anything to feel guilty about because you did not create his problems or situation. You have to remember that you are not the one responsible for his life. He is responsible for his own life.

[Guest taylorsquare]

Yes I think guilt has lot of control over my emotions.

[Gaybutton]

Yes I think guilt has lot of control over my emotions.

I disagree. Guilt doesn't control you. You control you. Based on what I wrote above, you felt guilt because that's what you decided to feel despite the fact that you had no reason to feel guilty.

 

You also have this hangup about people looking at you. Why? Why should you care whether people are looking at you or not? And how do you even know they are looking at you or that they give a damn in the first place even if they are looking at you?

[Guest Astrrro]

The operative word in that statement is "just". If you follow that with an explanation or excuse, you are settng yourself up for a manipulative argument.

 

Exactly.

 

Boy: I need money from rent

Falang: Cannot

Boy: Why?

Falang: Cannot

[Guest shebavon]

Saying 'no' comes easy to some and not-so-easy for others. If you are in the it's not easy saying NO category you either give in every time or you make the effort to build yourself a bit of backbone. As for saying 'later' that might work if you are only in town for a few days but if you are an ex-pat or longterm visitor surely you are adding fuel to the fire by torturing them with the prospect of (non-existent) money 'tomorrow'.

Frankly, I believe "later" is almost as good a way, and in some situations a better way, (as in when you might feel that you are losing face) to deal with the situation.

 

Thai culture, being on surface at least, perceived to be a polite culture, I believe the boys getting the less severe "later" will accept it as the same as a "no".

 

In both cases, using either no or later, I find myself consistantly harangued by the same Sunnee Plaza boys for cash. With many this has gone on for years. You would think that since I never give these boys cash, they would get the picture and stop asking, but this is Thailand.

 

It does not matter which word I have used, nor whether it is Boystown, Sunnee or Bangkok for that matter. Doormen seem to be the worst and most persistent culprits, and I prefer to use an outright no (out of sheer frustration), or simply to ignore them.

 

 

The boys look at it as fishing. It does not cost them anything to ask, and I am sure that these boys are asking many more farang than me, each night, with the same persistence.

[Guest taylorsquare]

Very interesting GB.

 

ASTRO,I done some research on the internet,I think your example in Psychology is called the "Broken Record"technique.

The Broken record technique[1] consists of simply repeating your requests every time you are met with illegitimate resistance. The term comes from vinyl records, the surface of which when scratched would lead the needle of a record player to loop over the same few seconds of the recording indefinitely. However, a disadvantage with this technique is that when resistance continues, your requests lose power every time you have to repeat them. If the requests are repeated too often it can backfire on the authority of your words. In these cases it is necessary to have some sanctions on hand.[edit] Fogging

[Guest taylorsquare]

I had a situation yesterday at a Hotel which I wont name.

ThE Ladyboy waiter offered to take my clothes to a laundry which i accepted and then later came back with them.

I was going to give a tip of 100 baht.

However he comes back with the washed /ironed clothes,2 t shirts,2 pairs undies and 1 pair socks.

I said- How much is it?

He said - "Up to you"

I said-"No no how much is the washing,how much I give you"

He said-"up to you"

I said- "is 200 baht ok"

HE then scrouches his face and makes a screeching type sound.

I then hand the 200 baht to him,but he doesnt take it.

Then the memory of what LVDKEYES posted earlier came back to me,but I owed him for the washing of clothes so I couldnt not pay,so again I hand him the 200 baht,

HE SAID- ohhhhhhh !! (Not taking the money.)

I said-ok here here is 220 baht.!(again trying to hand him the money)

He said-No 1000 baht ! 1000 baht ok !! 1000 baht !

I said-This is not worth 1000 baht.

He said- I need 1000 baht to pay room !

I said- Well take 200 baht,(he still doesnt take it)

I then put the 200 baht in his top pocket

He said- Ok 500 baht,500 baht,I pay room you know.

I then walked off.

Probaly moral of the story is,take your own washing to the laundry.

[Guest shebavon]

Good moral.

 

Had you taken the clothes to the cleaners yourself, it probably would not have cost more than 100 baht.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I am glad to hear my words haven't fallen on deaf ears.