Advice on opening a bar...

[Guest Soi10Tom]

A number of threads talk about what they would like or wouldn't like to see in a bar. So, I thought I would start a new thread.

 

The biggest mistake made in the opening of any new business everywhere in the world is that the new business' owner opens the business he wants..not the business that the customers want. A poor guy dreams a life time about his perfect bar...and then meets the fate of 9 out of every 10 new businesses and fails. Poor guy...his dream was ONLY his dream.

 

If you look around Pattaya and Jomtien you can see lots of examples of what not to do, and if you have been around awhile your institutional memory will bring many others to mind. If you look around you will see a few bars that do very well, because they are what the great majority of the expats and tourist to Pattaya are looking for.

 

Here is my observed list of what doesn't work.

1) Ladyboy bars.

2) Loud music or music that is out of step with the mojority of prospective customers age.

3) Over priced and/or under poured drinks.

4) Kathoey Caberet bars.

5) Fem boy bars.

6) Pushy Momasans that lie about everything.

7) Unfriendly owners that sit in the back of their bar and chain smoke.

Bars that are over come with smoke.

9) All bars opened in isolation to other gay venues die.

 

Here is my observed list of what works. Most important...leadership..every organization is a direct reflection of its leader.

 

1)GoGo bars with friendly honest Mamasans, managed smoking area or no smoking, friendly smiling boys, low volume music, and good short time rooms.

2) Beer bars with friendly generous owners, managed smoking area, a good mix of friendly smiling boys, low voume music and fair prices.

3) Massage places that are clean, have great looking guys that give a great massage...and send happy patrons walking away with a smile on their face.

4) Bars with mostly boys that are guys...the great majority of guys come to Pattaya to meet a guy, not a fem boy or a ladyboy.

5) Location, location and location.

 

The rest of you guys can take it from here.

[Guest HeyGay]

Wow this is such a difficult one, not for me but for anyone who is going to open a Bar, because if you see me around your know me, as I'm Blue in the Face, with saying it so many time as many write to me to ask as well as I write on the forums, if you have a Budget of say

[Gaybutton]

I think Soi10Tom is right about quite a bit, but also wrong about some of what he says. The lady-boy bars don't seem to work in Boyztown and Sunee Plaza, But those are not the only lady-boy bars in Pattaya and quite a number of people are into the lady-boys.

 

If you don't believe me, I suggest checking this web site. These bars are working just fine and have been established for years:

 

http://www.pattayashemales.com/bars.htm

 

Femme boy bars. I would agree with you if you are talking about bars that hire exclusively femme boys. That doesn't seem to work. The most popular bars feature a mix - as I said in another thread, something for everyone's taste.

 

There is one other thing that you mentioned only in passing. Cleanliness. If it's anything I can't stand, it's a bar at which the restrooms are filthy, stink, provide no kind of soap or bathroom tissue, have a community towel that may have been washed once in 1957, and look like the last time they ever were clean was the day they were built.

 

You also didn't say anything about reasonable prices.

[Guest Soi10Tom]

Interesting web site. I have done the Soi 6 crawl several times and have seen the Ladyboy bars, but they were always empty when I slithered passed, and all of the ladyboys were out on the Soi hooting and howling at the passing tourist. I was totally unaware of all of the other ladyboy bars on Walking Street, although my straight friends that are new to Pattaya are always in a panic that they will accidentally get a ladyboy...and, of course, I have great fun fanning the flames. I tell them, "Just relax it won't hurt." I was thinking more of the gay areas when I added Ladyboy bars to the list of things that won't work as every ladyboy bar that I have seen open in a gay area of town has gone under.

 

Cleanliness...very important indeed.

 

Agreed reasonable priced drinks are a must. My number 3 in things that don't work is "Over priced and/or under poured drinks." My number 2 item in things that work includes "fair prices."

[Guest RichLB]

I agree with all the suggestions posted above. I'd also like so add giving the poor guys dancing on the stage some clue on how to flirt with farang. A little eye contact and a coy smile would work wonders. Far too many times I've seen the guys so involved with watching themselves in the facing mirror I fear I (or anyone else) would be interupting their rapture by inviting them for a drink. I've also seen in some bars that the guys are having so much fun with their mutual horse play they don't have time for the customers. The successful guys know how to entice customers to stay awhile and take them off. Doing so, of course, makes for a bar's profit. I think not relying on them picking these skills up on their own and actually giving them some training would go a long way in making a bar successful.

[Gaybutton]

I think not relying on them picking these skills up on their own and actually giving them some training would go a long way in making a bar successful.

I agree with you. Some bar owners and mama-sans seem to think the mere presence of the boys is all it takes to run a successful bar.

 

I've also wondered about the apparently narcissistic fascination with looking at themselves in the mirror when on the stage. It seems to be awfully difficult for many of these boys to catch on to the idea that if they want to be taken off, then they need to be seductive. Watching them chat with each other, oblivious to the customers, stand there doing the "one-knee shuffle," playing with their telephones, looking at everything except the customers, walking swiftly past customers to the back, then the front, then the back, then the front again as if they were actually doing something important, and behaving as if they would rather be anywhere except for where they are, is not my idea of being seductive.

 

Only a couple nights ago I was in a go-go bar at which nearly all the boys were behaving as I described above. But one boy made eye contact, smiled at me, and acted flirtatious. In the looks department he was no different from the rest of them, but guess which boy I called over to sit with me.

[Guest taylorsquare]

Firstly i would cut the price to boy drinks to around 60 baht,i would cut my drink prices and i would have happy hours.

I would not have mamasans push you into offing a boy.

I would have the boys dancing and flirting.

 

I would have ping pong balls just as they do in girlie go go s where you can throw at the boys.

I would have dancer money notes where you can exchange cash for the dancer notes so u can give tips.

[Gaybutton]

I would have ping pong balls just as they do in girlie go go s where you can throw at the boys.

I would have dancer money notes where you can exchange cash for the dancer notes so u can give tips.

Throw ping pong balls at the boys? Why would you want to do that?

 

I don't understand what you mean by dancer notes. What purpose does that serve? If you want to give tips, give cash.

[Guest]

For me lady boys don't work in a boy bar.

 

A few femme boys are fine though -some of us like them.

Do you have any examples of bars where femme boys are the reason for low turnover?

 

For me:

1 Discourage tattos

2 Get nice smooth guys which are in good shape. Variety from femme boys to slightly muscular.

3 Encourage guys to make eye contact & smile at customers.

4 Have some nice outfits. These might be changed during the evening. e.g. Start fully clothed, then strip tease down to Euroboys lace ups; Follow up with "improved" happy boys shorts; Then maybe some yellow or orange trunks, with a very low cut at the rear?

5 Have some good dance routines.

6 Competitive but not low prices. You have to pay the staff, so silly low beer prices won't work. Maybe 120 baht a beer? Anyone who wants really cheap beer can sod off to a bar with low overheads.

7 Run some basic English classes & ensure there is an incentive to pass a "how to chat up a punter" exam.

8 Have "customer feedback" forms which the customer may return directly to a locked ballot box. These should invite comment on the bar & the guy they offed. Act on sensible comments.

9 No masturbating in the bar.

10 Have an in-house waxing/epilating service.

[Gaybutton]

Have an in-house waxing/epilating service.

Would you mind explaining that one? Why would a bar want to provide that kind of service? Better still, why would you want it?

 

I can just hear the street touts now. "Have BOY, sexy BOY! Have new BOY! Have WAX! Welcome inside mister for WAX!"

 

"Waiter, a gin and tonic and a wax job, please. While I'm at it, can I get my pubic hair streaked? Nothing fancy, just frost my bush. I think that can make me look very sexy."

[Guest Astrrro]

The biggest mistake made in the opening of any new business everywhere in the world is that the new business' owner opens the business he wants..not the business that the customers want.

Here is my observed list of what doesn't work.

1) Ladyboy bars.

 

5) Fem boy bars.

 

 

I think these are thrings that you don't like but their are many customers who like these types of bars.

[Guest]

I think these are thrings that you don't like but their are many customers who like these types of bars.

 

Yeah, I agreed with all of Soi Tom's advice except these two. The busiest bars I have seen in Thailand have been ladyboy bars. Perhaps Pattaya does not keep them that busy but I have never seen more busy bars than the ladyboy bars in Bangkok. There is a market for these bars.

 

And, if you look at porn from Asian guys, the ladyboys / TS videos far outsell any gay videos on the market.

[Guest Astrrro]

No masturbating in the bar.

 

Guess this is an example of what in our strange little word is considered normal but most God fearing folk back home would consider unbelievable.

[Guest Astrrro]

Loud music

 

Have you ever, even once been in a Thai bar and said to yourself, "this music isn't loud enough, I sure wish they would crank up the volume"? B)

[Guest Astrrro]

Firstly i would cut the price to boy drinks to around 60 baht

 

I would have dancer money notes where you can exchange cash for the dancer notes so u can give tips.

 

Redgy's in Sunee has 50 baht boy drinks.

 

Easy enough to tip dancers 20 baht. "Dancer notes" would just give the bars of cut of the tips.

[Guest Astrrro]

Soi 6 crawl several times and have seen the Ladyboy bars

 

While many soi 6 bars may have a ladyboy or two there are 4 ladyboy bars on Soi 6.

 

Pook Bar

So What bar

Lucky Love Bar

Hi Boss (can be an intimidatng place)

[Rogie]

10 Have an in-house waxing/epilating service.

 

"Waiter, a gin and tonic and a wax job, please. While I'm at it, can I get my pubic hair streaked? Nothing fancy, just frost my bush. I think that can make me look very sexy."

I suspect z was keen to get ten items and maybe was running a bit short on ideas by the time he got to No.10 - but I liked his list, and provided the depilation / waxing service was discrete and done in a curtained-off area it may appeal although you'd have to be a bit careful about customers drinking and depilating. . .

 

and is epilating where you enter without so much as a hair on your chest and exit looking like Burt Reynolds?

 

What on earth is a frosted bush?

[Gaybutton]

What on earth is a frosted bush?

Now let's see. What could that be? Perhaps a certain former President standing naked outdoors in Vermont in February?

[Guest RichLB]

Throw ping pong balls at the boys? Why would you want to do that?

 

I don't understand what you mean by dancer notes. What purpose does that serve? If you want to give tips, give cash.

 

I've been trying to promote the ping pong ball thing for a couple years now (usually responded to by flames from other posters). What is done in the girlie bars is a customer buys a bucket of ping pong balls for a couple hundred baht. Each ball retrieved by a girl is worth 10 or 20 baht for the girl. Since the balls bounce around it becomes fun for them to chase them down, the crowd enjoys the pandemonium on the stage and the bar makes a bit on the side from the sale of the ping pong balls. It's fun, and if a girl feels demeaned (I sure wouldn't!) chasing the balls, there's no obligation to do so.

 

As to the "dancer notes" I think he is referring to pre paid tips or a pre paid boy drink. A chit is exchanged for the purchase. Crazy Dragon did something like that a couple months ago when curomers were given a ticket upon enterring for a free bar boy drink. The boys, seeing the voucher on your table, sure gave customers who had not cashed it in yet a lot more attention than the customers who were just sitting stoney faced. It also gave the customer an excuse to invite a boy to sit down with them and join in for a drink. I thought it was a good idea.

[Gaybutton]

I thought it was a good idea.

Now that you've explained it, yes, I see those as good ideas too.

[Guest]

I have noticed quite a few bar customers don't like excessive body hair on their guys.

 

Therefore get someone around with a suitable hair removal service for bar staff, backstage, discrete & outside bar opening hours.

[Gaybutton]

Therefore get someone around with a suitable hair removal service for bar staff

Well, just in case the bars wish to make that voluntary on the part of the individual boys, I know where there are some barber shops . . .

[Guest shebavon]

I have noticed quite a few bar customers don't like excessive body hair on their guys.

 

Therefore get someone around with a suitable hair removal service for bar staff, backstage, discrete & outside bar opening hours.

Excessive is in the eyes of the beholder. I for one like the more macho boys, and hair is not necessarily a turn-off for me.

 

As to the main topic at hand, if the bar wants my business, there would be few if any boys under the age of 18, few if any femme boys, and a lot of machos in the 18-30 range.

 

I prefer the bars that may have 20 boys on a given night, that in the states, I would give my left nut for.

[Guest]

Excessive is in the eyes of the beholder. I for one like the more macho boys, and hair is not necessarily a turn-off for me.

As to the main topic at hand, if the bar wants my business, there would be few if any boys under the age of 18, few if any femme boys, and a lot of machos in the 18-30 range.

I prefer the bars that may have 20 boys on a given night, that in the states, I would give my left nut for.

 

All the staff in my bar would be over 18 & most under 25.

 

As for the hair, one other forum is running a poll right now...

The voting is: Smooth 16 votes -Hairy 0 votes

 

For me, hair should be only on the head & maybe in a small triangle surrounding the dangly bits.

[Rogie]

For me, hair should be only on the head & maybe in a small triangle surrounding the dangly bits.

 

Agreed

 

I notice quite a few young men, dressed in briefs upon the stage, completely smooth of face and torso, yet hairy of leg. Some very hairy indeed. That is enough to deter me, there are usually plenty with nice smooth pins.