Is "don't call me" the new standard internationally now?

[unicorn]

About a month ago, I wrote about the wedding planner who had a strict "Don't call me, I'll call you" policy, in which she wouldn't answer the phone at any time under any circumstances. A couple of weeks ago, I received a letter from an insurance carrier (Liberty Mutual), where they explained they were no longer offering Umbrella Coverage in California, so I needed to find a new policy. The letter suggested I call my insurance agent, which I did (he didn't reach out to me himself). I called his office (which has multiple agents), and left a voice mail on the Monday of last week, requesting we discuss the matter. When I hadn't heard from him by Friday, I called another insurance agent, who called me the next business day (Monday, 3 days ago). He found a new policy for me. The original agent (with whom I still have auto insurance) finally called back on Tuesday, more than a week after I left him a message, saying he hadn't answered my VM because he was on vacation. There was nothing on his outgoing message about his being out.

I feel pretty miffed about the original agent's treatment. I felt there were multiple options with which he could have availed himself prior to taking off on vacation. (1) He could have requested colleagues check his VM while he was gone, (2) He could have checked his messages once a day himself, or, most simply, (3) He could have changed the outgoing message prior to leaving stating something on the lines of "I'll be out of town until April 1st, and will not be checking my messages before then. If there are any urgent matters, please call my colleague Fred Smith at extension 123 for assistance." Is it just me, or was he being rude and inconsiderate? Before I retired, I always had to make arrangements for coverage before I went on vacation. We all took turns covering for each other.

How are things where you are? Is the new standard for business now "It's your good fortune if we decide to assist you!"? Although the new agent didn't suggest it, I'm thinking of asking him to change my auto policy to a new company just to send a message. Or am I just "not with the times"?

[Keithambrose]

2 minutes ago, unicorn said:

About a month ago, I wrote about the wedding planner who had a strict "Don't call me, I'll call you" policy, in which she wouldn't answer the phone at any time under any circumstances. A couple of weeks ago, I received a letter from an insurance carrier (Liberty Mutual), where they explained they were no longer offering Umbrella Coverage in California, so I needed to find a new policy. The letter suggested I call my insurance agent, which I did (he didn't reach out to me himself). I called his office (which has multiple agents), and left a voice mail on the Monday of last week, requesting we discuss the matter. When I hadn't heard from him by Friday, I called another insurance agent, who called me the next business day (Monday, 3 days ago). He found a new policy for me. The original agent (with whom I still have auto insurance) finally called back on Tuesday, more than a week after I left him a message, saying he hadn't answered my VM because he was on vacation. There was nothing on his outgoing message about his being out.

I feel pretty miffed about the original agent's treatment. I felt there were multiple options with which he could have availed himself prior to taking off on vacation. (1) He could have requested colleagues check his VM while he was gone, (2) He could have checked his messages once a day himself, or, most simply, (3) He could have changed the outgoing message prior to leaving stating something on the lines of "I'll be out of town until April 1st, and will not be checking my messages before then. If there are any urgent matters, please call my colleague Fred Smith at extension 123 for assistance." Is it just me, or was he being rude and inconsiderate? Before I retired, I always had to make arrangements for coverage before I went on vacation. We all took turns covering for each other.

How are things where you are? Is the new standard for business now "It's your good fortune if we decide to assist you!"? Although the new agent didn't suggest it, I'm thinking of asking him to change my auto policy to a new company just to send a message. Or am I just "not with the times"?

You are right to be upset. You are still the  client, and if he wants your business,  he needs to react. Just sack him, and tell him why. I am semi retired, but just answered an enquiry  from a client  while I was on holiday in Thailand. When I got home, I answered another query at 11.30 pm, within 10 minutes. 

[caeron]

 

My job required me to be available 24x7, though it almost never was necessary. On vacations I checked voicemail, but put on autoresponder on email where the bulk of my work came from.

You needed work done, he didn't respond, you found somebody else. I think it's a bit of a shrug of the shoulders. He might have forgotten to update his voicemail. Perhaps almost no one calls him anymore so he didn't think to. Maybe he just didn't bother to care. Who cares? He's an agent you worked with, nothing more.

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, unicorn said:

I felt there were multiple options with which he could have availed himself prior to taking off on vacation.  (2) He could have checked his messages once a day himself,

 

2 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

. I am semi retired, but just answered an enquiry  from a client  while I was on holiday in Thailand. 

I find your ideas about being on  vacations are , to put it mildly , not aligning with mine.

We always should remember that cemeteries are full of people impossible to replace.

Query at 11.30pm? Only one I'd welcome would be from lottery office advising me I won big and even that , ruining presumably whole night , would be more welcomed in the morning.

[Keithambrose]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

 

I find your ideas about being on  vacations are , to put it mildly , not aligning with mine.

We always should remember that cemeteries are full of people impossible to replace.

Query at 11.30pm? Only one I'd welcome would be from lottery office advising me I won big and even that , ruining presumably whole night , would be more welcomed in the morning.

True, but this is my last client, and I am old fashioned, believing in service. It was also a quick enquiry, so could be done over a beer, watching talent in Surawong!

I assume if you were in Bangkok, and Tawan rang up at 11.30pm, with a special offering,  you might be interested?

[Moses]

The service you are used to is already a thing of the past. Serving people with people is too expensive, if we talk about the mass segment. And where AI cannot yet replace people (as in most helplines), corporate standards are lowered so that the profit from transactions continues to cover the cost of human service.

Only the luxury segment still offers individual service. Everything else is standardized and simplified.

Even at McDonald's they replace "Free checkout" with "Over there is a stand, go and order it yourself." Automation, AI, robots, depersonalization, standardized approach. And everything that requires human participation becomes either expensive or unprofitable.

[vinapu]

9 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

True, but this is my last client, and I am old fashioned, believing in service. It was also a quick enquiry, so could be done over a beer, watching talent in Surawong!

I assume if you were in Bangkok, and Tawan rang up at 11.30pm, with a special offering,  you might be interested?

if Tawan called yes ,that's entertainment ,   but if it was somebody from the office or client they will fast learn how their paternal grandmother conducted herself in last year of high school.

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, Moses said:

Even at McDonald's they replace "Free checkout" with "Over there is a stand, go and order it yourself." Automation, AI, robots, depersonalization, standardized approach. And everything that requires human participation becomes either expensive or unprofitable.

and sometimes I pause to wonder who will be placing that automated orders is we people in mass will become so expensive for employers to keep us on payroll.

[Keithambrose]

Some supermarkets in the UK, are moving away from Automatic  check outs to 'people' checkouts, as there is a feeling that we need more personal interaction.  I can see that, though I personally  prefer Automatic checkouts! Faster, etc. 

[unicorn]

20 hours ago, vinapu said:

 

I find your ideas about being on  vacations are , to put it mildly , not aligning with mine...

I agree that option 2 isn't usually the wisest. However, it is the option chosen by a couple of my friends. In one case, he runs a network, and it would be very difficult to train someone to get all of his knowledge, so he is usually available for brief emergencies, even when on vacation. In another case, this friend runs a very lucrative business which nets him some $400,000 a year, so he also would rather answer the occasional phone call when on vacation, rather than try to train someone, which would cost him dearly. I would guess that for most people, option 1 is the most common and wisest. Before I could go on vacation, I would have to set my voice mail to the vacation group coverage system, and have my work e-mail send an automatic response message, such as "Unicorn will be unavailable until April 18 at 8 AM. If there are urgent matters, contact XYZ." Option 3 is another option some might follow, and doesn't even require much effort on the employee. 

Another example. There's a winery from which I often order wines. I received an e-mail on Tuesday from my usual wine consultant: 

"HURRY! OFFER ENDS THURSDAY, APRIL 4TH @ 11:59 PM

To order please contact your personal Wine Consultant:
P*** G*** | 707-***-**** | p***@***.com

Questions? Ready to order? Give me a call. I'm here for you!"

So I called, no one answered, and I left a message to call back with my number that morning. Receiving no response, I called again in 2 hours, left another message, and again called 3 more times that day. After receiving no response again the next morning, I called the main number, and asked "Is PG on vacation? I've tried calling 8 times and multiple unanswered messages." I got the response "I don't know. She works in another building." I asked if I could just give my order to her, and she said that she wasn't supposed to take orders from someone who already has a wine consultant, but that she would send PG an e-mail. I finally received a call as I was driving on the way to a theater performance, so my voice-mail picked up: "“Hi Unicorn this is P*** your wine consultant at *** I'm so sorry that we have not been able to get a hold of each other as you know I usually am very even to hold of but I am actually out of town but I can still take orders I would like to take your order I just need to know what you're looking for...". 

Even after specifically sending an e-mail (purportedly sent by her) and specifically requesting I call her (promptly), she couldn't be bothered to either let her colleagues know she was off and/or change her outgoing message to at least let her customers know? I called again the next day, and, no surprise, no pick-up. This behavior just represents rudeness in my view. I don't blame her for not wanting to work when she's on vacation, but then she should just be honest and say "I'm sorry, but I'm not available at this time. Please call my colleague at...". 

[Keithambrose]

6 minutes ago, unicorn said:

I agree that option 2 isn't usually the wisest. However, it is the option chosen by a couple of my friends. In one case, he runs a network, and it would be very difficult to train someone to get all of his knowledge, so he is usually available for brief emergencies, even when on vacation. In another case, this friend runs a very lucrative business which nets him some $400,000 a year, so he also would rather answer the occasional phone call when on vacation, rather than try to train someone, which would cost him dearly. I would guess that for most people, option 1 is the most common and wisest. Before I could go on vacation, I would have to set my voice mail to the vacation group coverage system, and have my work e-mail send an automatic response message, such as "Unicorn will be unavailable until April 18 at 8 AM. If there are urgent matters, contact XYZ." Option 3 is another option some might follow, and doesn't even require much effort on the employee. 

Another example. There's a winery from which I often order wines. I received an e-mail on Tuesday from my usual wine consultant: 

"HURRY! OFFER ENDS THURSDAY, APRIL 4TH @ 11:59 PM

To order please contact your personal Wine Consultant:
P*** G*** | 707-***-**** | p***@***.com

Questions? Ready to order? Give me a call. I'm here for you!"

So I called, no one answered, and I left a message to call back with my number that morning. Receiving no response, I called again in 2 hours, left another message, and again called 3 more times that day. After receiving no response again the next morning, I called the main number, and asked "Is PG on vacation? I've tried calling 8 times and multiple unanswered messages." I got the response "I don't know. She works in another building." I asked if I could just give my order to her, and she said that she wasn't supposed to take orders from someone who already has a wine consultant, but that she would send PG an e-mail. I finally received a call as I was driving on the way to a theater performance, so my voice-mail picked up: "“Hi Unicorn this is P*** your wine consultant at *** I'm so sorry that we have not been able to get a hold of each other as you know I usually am very even to hold of but I am actually out of town but I can still take orders I would like to take your order I just need to know what you're looking for...". 

Even after specifically sending an e-mail (purportedly sent by her) and specifically requesting I call her (promptly), she couldn't be bothered to either let her colleagues know she was off and/or change her outgoing message to at least let her customers know? I called again the next day, and, no surprise, no pick-up. This behavior just represents rudeness in my view. I don't blame her for not wanting to work when she's on vacation, but then she should just be honest and say "I'm sorry, but I'm not available at this time. Please call my colleague at...". 

Sack them!

[vinapu]

2 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Sack them!

so some lawyer can be busy trying to get severance pay for them

[bkkmfj2648]

14 hours ago, Moses said:

The service you are used to is already a thing of the past.

One of the joys of retiring in Thailand is that the past is still alive.

When I lived in New York City in the 80s is was still popular for concierge / bell boy services to still be free and abundant in many of the NYC residential buildings.

Fast forward with the western move to outsource everything and to eliminate formerly "free" services - these types of free concierge services quickly disappeared - remaining only for the elite and ultra rich people.

I moved to Pattaya 18 months ago and the services available to us condo dwellers in View Talay are amazing and remind me of that time in NYC when we also had these free services.

For example - I don't own a car - but when I first started settling into my condo - I had to make many big purchases and rent special Bolt vans - SUVs to get these purchases home.  I would struggle to get them out of the Bolt when it arrived to the View Talay lobby and amazingly, many from the condo security team would run towards me to help me unload these large boxes and then assist me with the freight elevator and bring them into my condo room - all for free - and with a BIG smile as they are always happy to see you return home.  Of course I tipped them all.

This is one example of many where the free services we get in Thailand are a remnant of what we used to get back in the west....

so, retire in Thailand and have the joy of going back in time :>))

[Moses]

4 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

This is one example of many where the free services we get in Thailand

Why you call it "free"? You monthly pay for that. 

Yes, it is still affordable in Thailand, but nobody knows how long it will lasts. Minimal hourly rate and average wage in Thailand is going up quite fast.

[vinapu]

7 hours ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

 

so, retire in Thailand and have the joy of going back in time :>))

not for one second we believe you retired to Thailand to enjoy being back in time and have free concierge services, he, he

[unicorn]

7 hours ago, Moses said:

Why you call it "free"? You monthly pay for that...

If you think I don't pay dearly for my insurance services, or wine, or whatever, you'd be deeply mistaken. What seems to be new these days is that these companies are eager to take your money, increasing rates more rapidly than inflation, but disappear when it comes to service. Especially insulting was the "wine consultant" who wanted to collect a commission even when she was on vacation and didn't want to answer her phone. "Just give me the money. I don't want to do the work." 

[vinapu]

3 hours ago, unicorn said:

 Especially insulting was the "wine consultant" who wanted to collect a commission even when she was on vacation and didn't want to answer her phone.

think about that as your Guardian Angel suggested that certain jobs  are becoming obsolete and not worth paying for. Days when you will drink red to a fish and white to a steak are approaching rapidly if only because less and less people care about customs  and more and more about how it really tastes.  

[fedssocr]

I agree that communication is a problem these days. You're right that your insurance agent should have changed his outgoing voicemail. But I also know from personal experience that sometimes you just forget when you are hurrying to get things done before a vacation.

I recently hired a contractor to remodel my bathrooms. His communication issues were a yellow flag before I signed the contract. And have continued to be an issue since. I have confidence that the job will be fine in the end. I think it's a small operation and he's a little over-extended. But he takes longer to respond to messages than I would like.

[vinapu]

I think part of problem is easiness of communication those days and multichanneling, e-mails, phones, texts , Whatsapps, Lines , you name it that I sometimes have problem with keeping up with private massages from family and friends. People inundated with hundreds messages at work daily may have problems of keeping up and at one point they start not giving a s...t.   

[Mavica]

On 4/4/2024 at 6:46 PM, Keithambrose said:

You are right to be upset. You are still the  client, and if he wants your business,  he needs to react. Just sack him, and tell him why. I am semi retired, but just answered an enquiry  from a client  while I was on holiday in Thailand. When I got home, I answered another query at 11.30 pm, within 10 minutes. 

Obviously, it wasn't a good relationship in the first place.  Where I live in the USA, you change insurance agents / companies and your rates skyrocket.  Patience is a virtue.

[Mavica]

On 4/6/2024 at 12:46 AM, bkkmfj2648 said:

For example - I don't own a car - but when I first started settling into my condo - I had to make many big purchases and rent special Bolt vans - SUVs to get these purchases home.  I would struggle to get them out of the Bolt when it arrived to the View Talay lobby and amazingly, many from the condo security team would run towards me to help me unload these large boxes and then assist me with the freight elevator and bring them into my condo room - all for free - and with a BIG smile as they are always happy to see you return home.  Of course I tipped them all.

Nothing is provided for, or done for "free".  Nothing.

[bkkmfj2648]

48 minutes ago, Mavica said:

Nothing is provided for, or done for "free".  Nothing.

You and Moses both wrote the same response.

I am well aware that nothing is done for "free".

The point that I was trying to make is:

In the 1980s in New York City (NYC) these types of concierge services and access to a type of bellboy service were readily made available to you by the building that you lived in.  Yes you had to tip them - so it was not free and their salaries were in the condo assessment fee.

Now in the 2000s these services are no longer readily available - except for the elite and ultra rich - due to cost cutting and outsourcing.

Now in the 2000s (2024) what was once available in NYC in the 1980s is still available in Thailand in many of the large condo places.  Yes it is not free - as their salaries are included in the condo assessment fee.  But what is more important is that these concierge / bellboy services were not taken away from us in Thailand.

So, by living in Thailand - you can have the joy of going back in time to the good old days and get services (not free) that were readily available in the 1980s that are still available in Thailand.

 

[unicorn]

14 minutes ago, bkkmfj2648 said:

...in New York City (NYC) these types of concierge services and access to a type of bellboy service were readily made available to you by the building that you lived in.  Yes you had to tip them - so it was not free and their salaries were in the condo assessment fee.

Now in the 2000s these services are no longer readily available - except for the elite and ultra rich - due to cost cutting and outsourcing...

 

Yikes. From what I've seen from looney-tunes HOA fees on NYC condos, they should easily be able to afford concierges. This fairly modest condo has a monthly HOA dues of $3672. If it's not going to pay for staff to service the the residents of the building, I wonder where all of those $$$$ go. I had a larger townhouse in the SF Bay Area, any my homeowner dues were less than 10% of that, and for that our association payed for our private paved roads, multiple tennis courts, 3 swimming pools, extensive landscaping, and a clubhouse. Of course, the staffing in the office was only part-time, 16 hours per week, but no one expected full-time services with those dues. I wonder where those NYC HOA due go.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24-W-69th-St-2A-New-York-NY-10023/244900964_zpid/

[Keithambrose]

6 hours ago, Mavica said:

Obviously, it wasn't a good relationship in the first place.  Where I live in the USA, you change insurance agents / companies and your rates skyrocket.  Patience is a virtue.

OK. Bit easier in the UK. Most done online. 

[Mavica]

12 hours ago, unicorn said:

Yikes. From what I've seen from looney-tunes HOA fees on NYC condos, they should easily be able to afford concierges. This fairly modest condo has a monthly HOA dues of $3672. If it's not going to pay for staff to service the residents of the building, I wonder where all of those $$$$ go. I had a larger townhouse in the SF Bay Area, any my homeowner dues were less than 10% of that, and for that our association payed for our private paved roads, multiple tennis courts, 3 swimming pools, extensive landscaping, and a clubhouse. Of course, the staffing in the office was only part-time, 16 hours per week, but no one expected full-time services with those dues. I wonder where those NYC HOA due go.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/24-W-69th-St-2A-New-York-NY-10023/244900964_zpid/

You've selected an extreme example, and not for a condominium monthly maintenance fee ... but it's a co-operative.  In Co-ops your monthly fee includes a proportionate share of the whole building (not just your unit square footage) annual real estate taxes and other fees.  This particular co-op is either too high-priced for the market or there are problems with it ... because it's been on the market 130 days.  Co-ops are typically more full-service than apartment buildings, condo buildings, etc.