How Important is College?

[TotallyOz]

In the grand scheme of things I wonder how important college is to a young Thai male? I know it often depends on their history, family, etc.

 

My BF of almost 7 years is finishing high school. He is 25 and now ready for college. Naturally I want him to go and it is VERY important to me. But, even though I have laid out his options of schools, or even no schools and doing a trade, he says he wants to go to school in Thailand. This makes sense to me as his family is there. I did offer to bring him to the USA to study and that way I would be able to see him more. Sure, an upside for me and maybe a down one for him. But, I thought the prospect of an American education would be something that would take his life even further.

 

I don't really know the way things work in Thailand and I have left it up to him to take the tests and get into school. I hope this is a direction he wants. I do often wonder if he goes only to please me even though he has said this is really what he wants for his life. The money I would save from sending him to school would help him to open a business. But, he assure me this is what he now wants.

 

At 25, he will be almost 30 when he finishes college. Will that hinder his prospects of a good job? Will the fact that he went to Sunday school as opposed to graduating from a regular high school make him loose face with his classmates? Is there anything I can do to help him get into school there? He has chosen a private University in Bangkok and that is fine for me. I just worry that he won't be able to keep up with the rich kids who have a much better education than he does.

 

He has made me very proud to work as hard as he has to get to where he is. I am very proud of him and only want him to succeed in whatever choices he makes.

[Bob]

A couple of comments/suggestions, GT (most of which I've learned by experience):

 

1. No, he won't lose face if he completed high school via the Sunday or weekend route. My current bf did that at about age 21-22 and he's never expressed to me that he got any guff for doing that (I really don't think the college guys give a rat's ass what high school they went to). But he will in fact run into some rich thai boys and he simply won't be able to compete with them with wardrobe, car, etc. (but he'll handle it).

 

2. Have a very solid understanding up front that (first) it's very expensive to put somebody through college and that you expect him to try his hardest to achieve as good grades as he's capable of doing (i.e., no big deal if he doesn't get "A's" if he's putting a reasonable amount of effort in trying to do that); and (second) that you're only agreeing to pay for 4 years of college (and you have no intention of paying for 5,6, or more years). In that regard, he needs to figure out what he will "major in" within a year or two. I know that pressing that issue might be more pressure than he wants so do it gently. [This staying in college forever as they get comfortable/lazy with the college life is quite common in the states too.....so it's not a "thai" thing]

 

My 9+-year bf will graduate next year from Payap here in Chiangmai. He switched majors (from tourism to business communications) about 2 years ago and, so, will have been in college 6 years by the time he's finished. I'm not a cheap bastard (lord knows that...) but I really didn't like the idea of adding a couple of more years (it is fairly expensive). When he was briefly talking about going on to get a masters degree a couple of months ago, it only took me a nanosecond to say: "That'd be great, I hope you can find somebody to help pay for that!" By the way, he just turned 31 about 2 weeks ago.

 

 

Just the other day, over dinner with a couple of falang I respect, a long time resident up here just happened to mention that getting even a simple job (like working at the department store or whatever) required a college degree now. I can understand that to some degree as, back in the states, the last time (several years back) I interviewed some people for a position of legal secretary, all had a college degree, two had master's degrees, and one had a friggin' doctorate! (same same back in the states given the lousy job market).

 

P.S. Yea, I'm kind of proud of the bf too. He's from a very poor family living in the boonies of Chiangrai province and they pulled him out of school at age 13 to work in the family (aunt's) restaurant business when he was 13. When he was 19, he left on his own to live in Chiangmai (for whatever reason, he wasn't satisfied with that life). Then again, on his own, he went to high school for a few years I met him when he was 22 and just about to finish high school. Nobody else in his family ever finished high school so he does have some internal drive to try to improve himself - and it's that quality I've admired and helped me easily decide to help put him through college. Even if we broke up tomorrow or next year, I would never regret any of it as he'll have his education forever and it might help him get a better job (or not, I really don't care that much about that).

[Gaybutton]

If it is possible for a Thai boy to get a college education and possible for you to provide it, I believe it can only benefit his life. It will certainly provide more and better career opportunities.

 

Yes, it is expensive, but if he qualifies there are scholarships available. I believe student loans are also available.

[Guest buckeroo2]

My BF of almost 7 years is finishing high school. He is 25 and now ready for college.

If he was able to follow through and finish that God-awful bike trek - college will be a breeze.

[Guest RichLB]

Hmm, I've been thinking about this one and I'm not so sure.

 

If your boyfriend's objective is to make himself more attractive in the job market, there may be better options such as learning a trade or perhaps even something in the technology field (computer programming, web design, etc.). He should recognize (and I'm sure he already knows) that Thailand is very nepotistic - friends and family of business owners almost always receive preferential treatment in spite of other candidates' qualifications. In addition, skin color still seems to be a stumbling block and darker skinned Thais, even with degrees, have a difficult time. I know, it's not fair and shouldn't be that way, but it is.

 

However, if your bf's goal is to become an educated man and, thus, improve the quality of his life, then by all means encourage him to continue his education. The university experience is not just about classroom learning so much as it is a life altering adventure. He is likely to discover a world of the mind far more involving and fulfilling than what he may have assumed was the nature of being alive. He will learn to think - and that is something far more than the cliche it appears to be. In addition, he will learn to associate with others from an intellectual and economic strata he may have previously thought beyond him.

 

So, my response is that it depends on what he is looking for. I'm hoping it is the last objective.

[Guest tdperhs]

Make it cost him something. If he does not contribute something to the expense of his education, it will mean little to him.

[PattayaMale]

GT mentioned the possibility of having an education in the USA. I don't remember if his BF has been there before. But if possible, I would take him and let him talk to other Thais his age that are living and working and going to school there.

 

Several months ago my Thai friend and I went there. One of my objectives was to go places we would meet Thais he could talk to. Los Angeles (Long Beach), San Francisco, Las Vegas, Washington DC and the Grand Canyon (there is a program where college students intern) were the best places for us. Many work in restaurants and casinos. My friend became very impressed at the fact many Thais lived there and at how much money they were making. He also learned that those we met really enjoyed living in the US. Several were there after overstaying there visa (student or tourist). But none were having any trouble.

 

I am sure most of us have meet guys in the bars here in Thailand where the guys have been to trade school or finished college. They work there because many college graduates make a small salary or they could not find a job after graduation. The bars allow them to make much more.

 

However, many Thai waiters in the USA make a very good living in contrast and are connected to other Thais there. Many are working at Thai places while going to school. They have learned very good English, have an international (USA) college or trade degree, and find getting work at better salaries much easier in ASEAN.

 

As RichLB mentioned, well paying jobs in Thailand are few unless the family is connected.

 

I would like to hear what Traveler Jim thinks as he has helped several boys through college. I never talked to him about how the boys were doing 3 or 4 years after graduation though.

[Guest Patexpat]

As an employer, I hire on merit. Some of my best staff have minimal formal Thai qualifications, but a Thai employer puts paper qualifications before ability (which is reflected back in so many ways!)

 

I lend minimal weight to Thai educational qualifications.

[Bob]

As an employer, I hire on merit.

While you're mode of hiring is to commended, you correctly note how most Thai employers do it. And there are just a tad more Thai employers than falang employers.

[Guest Patexpat]

you correctly note how most Thai employers do it.

of course - tis obvious. Doesn't make it right or 'best practice' tho - which is my sole point.

[Bob]

of course - tis obvious. Doesn't make it right or 'best practice' tho - which is my sole point.

 

And I absolutely agree with you, that being: that the educational level an applicant has for many jobs is not necessarily the best indicator whether the applicant is going to be a valuable employee; however, at the same time, we're answering GT's question about whether a degree will likely help his Thai friend land a better job. Now, if his friend obtains a degree and also knows somebody, that's even better (and probably nepotism will trump a degree in many places).

[Guest]

I am a consultant in the USA. I often go into businesses and bring a team together. The FIRST thing I look at is the degree. I don't care where it came from but I want to see that that finished at least a Bachelor's level. The next thing I look at is experience. This may be even more important than the first one but if I have 2 candidates that have similar levels of experience I always want the one with the degree.

 

Most of my jobs are very technical and it does not often come with someone who doesn't have a degree. In looking back, I can't even think of one applicant that didn't have one. In the USA it is the norm. In Thailand it is not. I just can't imagine that I'd be wasting my money for him to get an education and I can't image it would not give him a head's up against other applicants.

 

Personally, I love to hire cute guys too. Right? No. I'd have a hard time in LOS picking applicants.

[Guest RichLB]

Ok, this is sure to alienate some here, but there IS a difference between a university educated person and one who has not had that experience. Egalitarianism and political correctness dictate that we should view all people as sharing the same potential - and perhaps at birth that's true. But those who have attended college think and behave, in general, different from those who have not. Non-higher educated people are far more likely to think in black and whites, are more likely to believe their personal experience with the world is the only valid view, seldom question broadly held beliefs and are usually far more interested in what THEY have to say than in learning from others.

 

If I was in the business of hiring low level laborers I would likely view those who don't question authority more favorably. However, if I was hoping to find future management personnel, I would likely reject those who had little formal education unless they had somehow earned truly unique and exemplary other experience.

[Gaybutton]

Non-higher educated people are far more likely to think in black and whites, are more likely to believe their personal experience with the world is the only valid view, seldom question broadly held beliefs and are usually far more interested in what THEY have to say than in learning from others.

I don't know if that is always true. I'm a product of higher education, but I think many posters here would say that your description of those without a higher education would fit me perfectly. Maybe at the university level I never learned anything . . . Oh well, if I could only do it over again, next time I'll go somewhere other than Big Bubba's University and Car Wash.

 

That's a shame, too. If I had learned anything I probably would have been much easier to get along with.

[Guest Patexpat]

Ok, this is sure to alienate some here, but there IS a difference between a university educated person and one who has not had that experience.

 

and sadly there is a HUGE difference between a degree from a Thai university and one from a western one, due simply to the different cultural styles of teaching .... my experience of degrees in Thailand is that they are about on par with what was 'A' levels in the UK ....

[Bob]

While I'm not so sure that RichLB's point translates into a course of action in Thailand (i.e., I'm doubtful that too many Thai managers think within those parameters), I do absolutely agree that a college education generally makes for a more rounded and interesting person. Sometimes, though, it's very difficult to separate out what changes occur in a person due to education versus just plain maturity and having more experiences in the world.

 

I've appreciated the maturity level gained by my bf (who just turned 31 as I've noted before) and, whether right or wrong, I'd give credit to his education more than just aging for what I perceive to be attitudinal improvements that add up to a bit more compatibility between the two of us. I'm probably not saying this right but, when I was younger and just coming to Thailand for 2-week trips 2 or 3 times per year, the conversation level or quality was probably the last thing on my mind; however, after a few years, it began to irritate me a little bit that I really didn't care for the continuous trappings (clothing, music, choice of entertainment, and generally light-hearted but goofy talk) of the average 20-22 year old here in Thailand (who, for whatever reason, seem to act more like a 15-year-olds from the states). So, the difference is noticeable and appreciated by me to some degree.

 

[i don't disgree with Patexpat's comments that the Thai educational system doesn't usually doesn't produce the same bright graduate that one usually finds in the western educational system (and the topic of the methods of education here is probably better left to another thread); that being said, the Thai system still produces some of the changes that RichLB talks about.]

[Guest fountainhall]

For mainstream jobs, I'd hire someone with a degree almost every time. For more specialised employment, I believe a potential employee has to prove to me that he has passion, commitment, leadership skills, and either the level of expertise I need - or the potential to learn very fast. In the latter case, the degree is much less important. I've always thought a degree is very important in getting that first job. Thereafter, experience, personal and teamwork skills are more important. That's my view, though. In Thailand, I accept the degree has a greater importance.

[Guest globalwanderer]

In Thailand I think a degree (however you want to measure it's worth against the west) is vitally important. And not only thet remember a lot of Thais leave school in their early teens.