The walk of shame

[Guest Oogleman]

No problem for me to walk with my bf. I know what im doing - as does he - as does everyone else who knows im in town. Why try hide it!

 

of course those who dont know me will think hes an offed bar boy - but i dont care what they think. he doesnt work in a bar and hes mine!

[Guest rentalb123]

I will admit that I have one boy that likes to top and we have on occasion when I have visited went bar hopping and picked up several others for some fun. The first time we did it I had not considered the walk until we rounded the corner to Boyztown and it seemed as if the street stopped and stared at the 5 of us coming down it. As I headed into my hotel the catcalls were numerous. One of the boys noticed that I had tensed up a bit and laughed and while not sure exactly what he said it went along the lines of "they are jealous that they did not get asked to join. They are just hoping they find someone tonight" after that I realized that the comments were basically just that as I got teased the next several days about my party by the massage guys and the hotel staff. I must say that it was comical that the desk clerk did not even bat an eye, just took the ID's and said that he would have someone bring me some more towels as it looked like I would need them. When the night was over we all stood on the balcony and looked over the street, further inciting the street crowd and yelling back and forth. All in all it was fun, but it also got me over any issue about walking with my boy(s)after leaving the bar as I considered what the looks really meant.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

It's not easy overcoming a life time of inhibitions. Take it one step at a time. I know that I, too, felt everyone looking at me the first time I ever offed a guy in Thailand.

 

So like everything else I do when I am afraid of something, I decided to confront my fear face on - but in a smart way. I told myself I'd make everyone think he was my friend (and not just "my friend" if you know what I mean) and took the next guy for a drink in the hotel bar openly before we went up to my room.

 

After that holding hands and walking all the way back to my hotel was a snap. It might not be so easy for everyone but my point is that sooner or later we just have to face the phantoms in our own minds or else be ruled forever by the chimaera of "Whatever will they think of me?"

 

Xian

[dapitt]

It's not easy overcoming a life time of inhibitions. ....So like everything else I do when I am afraid of something, I decided to confront my fear face on - but in a smart way. .....I told myself I'd make everyone think he was my friend (and not just "my friend" if you know what I mean) and took the next guy for a drink in the hotel bar openly before we went up to my room.

 

Xian, this is excellent advice and an excellent example of how to carry it out. People's feelings are most often complex issues and just telling someone to "get over it" may not work for everyone. You've given a good and helpful approach. Thanks.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

You're welcome. Let's hope the original poster as well as any of the other forum guests who might have similar problems, find all our well-meant advice here to be of some help.

[Guest shockdevil]

This is quite an interesting topic.

 

I remember my first trip to Thailand and how I was shy about walking with a hot younger guy through the streets of Bangkok holding hands. When my first "friend" grabbed my hand I felt awkward because of what I thought other people would be thinking. But when I looked at him and saw his comforting smile I quickly got over it.

 

My hesitation was based on my hangups and the somewhat conservative life I lead in the USA. I still am not into PDA, however, if I am walking through the streets here with a guy that I am dating I do not care what people may be thinking...even if that date looks like an offed bar worker.

[Gaybutton]

My hesitation was based on my hangups and the somewhat conservative life I lead in the USA.

That's the whole point in a nutshell. People allow their ingrained hangups to embarrass them in a country where such hangups do not exist. I realize that it is difficult for some to disregard what they have been taught all their lives, especially when in Thailand for the first time for a one or two week holiday. If they get stares, they're most likely to get them from other farang, not from Thais. For me, it's easy to ignore people like that or even go as far as staring right back or even confronting them. But I do realize that just because I don't have a problem with it doesn't mean that others won't have a problem with it.

 

Still, I have difficulty accepting the idea that some are so self-conscious about it that they would allow even the potential of receiving stares ruin their holiday and cause them to watch everyone else taking boys off, but being too embarrassed to do the same thing themselves.

 

One thing I do know, at least regarding myself; when I am looking toward a farang who has a boy with him, whether walking around Sunee Plaza or anywhere else, or at the beach, I'm not even paying any attention to the farang. I'm checking out the boy.

[Guest shockdevil]

If they get stares, they're most likely to get them from other farang, not from Thais.

It is almost always the foreigners, especially westerners, who give disapproving stares and even jeers. Although this has not happened to me, I have seen instances where westerners have yelled nasty remarks at folks and even confronted them regarding their “lifestyle”. I firmly believe that many people should leave their homegrown biases and negativities at the border…better yet, in their homeland.

[Gaybutton]

I have seen instances where westerners have yelled nasty remarks at folks and even confronted them regarding their

[kokopelli]

That's the whole point in a nutshell. People allow their ingrained hangups to embarrass them in a country where such hangups do not exist.

 

Let's not get too carried away about some hangups.

[Bob]

While my intent is not to derail the thread, maybe we're going a bit overboard by simply saying or implying that we shouldn't pay any attention to the feelings or standards or "hangups" that we learned at home. Given most of us are of advanced years (that's a polite way, of course, of saying that many of us are older than dirt ), I think we're old enough to understand that we often are "ruled by our past", i.e., we tend to go with the good (and sometimes less than good) values that our parents and communities instilled in us. By and large, at least in my view, following most of those values/rules isn't such a bad idea. And one should certainly adjust ones values and behaviors based on the accepted culture of the country in which you're currently residing.

 

As long as somebody is dressed appropriately and behaving appropriately, I'd agree that the person shouldn't worry about what others think. But, for example only, I don't happen to agree that it's appropriate to be walking down any old street holding hands with your current flame (it might be fine in the bar areas but I personally don't think it's appropriate in the mall or the hotel lobby - and not because it's bad in itself but it's somewhat contradictory to Thai culture and habits). I also think that women at the beach that go topless is another example of behavior that's totally unacceptable here (plus, by and large, they're old and ugly anyway...hahaha). And, maybe I'm a friggin' prude, but it's totally unacceptable to me for a falang to grope the crotch of anybody anywhere (other than in private). Sometimes I would hope that a few falang ought to feel more embarrassed about their conduct than they obviously do.

 

If I ever feel uncomfortable about my conduct (meaning I'm feeling a bit embarrassed or have that "damn, I'm glad mom can't see me now" attitude), it might be time to at least take a moment to examine why I feel that way. Maybe, on occasion, one's reaction is honestly telling one something valuable. Thankfully, I rarely get that dreaded "red-faced" feeling.

[Guest fountainhall]

I also think that women at the beach that go topless is another example of behavior that's totally unacceptable here (plus, by and large, they're old and ugly anyway...hahaha)

 

Totally agree. It's not only unsightly, it's downright insulting to the Thais and Thai culture. Yet all these foreign women seem to talk about is their right to assert their rights!

 

And I agree that for almost all of us, most of the values we learned from our families have stood us in good stead. The problem is that some people do not seem to realise that inbred realities, especially negative ones, can be changed. It requires considerable mental effort, and perhaps also help from others, but it can be done. Years ago I read an amazing book titled "The Nature of Personal Reality". It was a tough read - because I kept on rejecting much of what I was reading. But eventually it opened my mind to how conditioned we all are by our upbringing and how we can change ingrained beliefs and fears.

[Gaybutton]

Totally agree. It's not only unsightly, it's downright insulting to the Thais and Thai culture.

I also agree. One aspect of it that's on my "I Don't Get It" list is that they are usually there with other men, meaning they are not lesbians. So, what are they doing on the gay beach? Unless they're blind, there's no way they don't realize they're on a gay beach area.

[Guest fountainhall]

what are they doing on the gay beach?

 

It's not only in Pattaya. They seem to be all over Phuket - and probably other beach resorts as well. I wish hotel managers and tourism officials would make it abundantly clear to all visitors that public nudity is offensive to the Thais as their hosts. I'd like to see some system of fines, but I guess the tourism people will not agree to that as it might scare some tourists, especially Europeans, away. So I guess we're stuck with them

[Guest kcampb49]

It's not only in Pattaya.

 

I've seen it in Bali too where it is just as offensive to the local population. I've also had to endure the occassional sight of some (usually overweight and ugly) farang males on the Gay beach change out of their walking shorts/underwear into their swimsuit without wrapping themselves in a towel. A practice also offensive to Thais. Like GB, this is on my "I don't get it list" and I find the utter disregard for local cultural norms annoying as well.

[Guest fountainhall]

I've seen it in Bali too where it is just as offensive to the local population

 

I remember on my first visits to Bali in the early 1980's being amazed at the wonderful sight of men, many young and handsome, thinking nothing of stripping off and bathing in public in the streams after work. I was once in a DC10 taxing towards the runway at Denpassar airport when I noticed a young man doing exactly that within the airport boundary. I am not sure if it is the same today, but there certainly seemed to be a different attitude to male nudity, even if only in the act of bathing, and female nudity.

 

That said, I too object to men changing in full view of other beach-goers. On the other hand, though, if they are young and handsome Balinese rather than overweight and ugly foreigners, my principles might go out the window . . .

[Gaybutton]

That said, I too object to men changing in full view of other beach-goers.

I agree. These holiday makers, regardless of where they come from, are not ignorant dolts without sophistication enough to realize that different countries have different attitudes toward nudity. I fail to see much of an excuse for them not to check. We would know to check. Why don't they? The only answers I can think of are that they don't care about the customs or they truly don't realize that it may be objectionable. Maybe they're ignorant dolts after all.

[Guest fountainhall]

Maybe they're ignorant dolts after all

. . . along with a healthy dose of f--k you arrogance. I do think there's an element of "I've paid for my holiday. I'm going to enjoy it my way and to hell with anyone who objects."

[Gaybutton]

. . . along with a healthy dose of f--k you arrogance. I do think there's an element of "I've paid for my holiday. I'm going to enjoy it my way and to hell with anyone who objects."

Speaking of ignorant dolts, how about this? And this is just today!

 

Here are links to two versions of the story, both versions with photos:

 

http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/december/news_11_12_52.shtml

 

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/shownews.php?IDNEWS=0000011398

[kokopelli]

I just dont want to look like a real..........slut !!

 

For those sluts among us, you can get your "walk of shame" T-shirts at www.taylorsquare.com

 

[Guest Astrrro]

There are many reasons why one wouldn't want to be seen with a gogo boy.

 

Some people just like their privacy. Others who work in Thailand are certainly better off if not seen with moneyboys.

 

The Walk of Shame is a big issue with straight guys who experiment with ladyboys. These guys are berated on ladyboy forums for their cowardice but these same beraters often would not want to be seen with ladyboys in Manchester or Minneapolis.

[Guest kcampb49]

I remember on my first visits to Bali in the early 1980's being amazed at the wonderful sight of men, many young and handsome, thinking nothing of stripping off and bathing in public in the streams after work.

I've also seen the male stripping and bathing in streams after work and it was lovely to behold I do think there is a different attitude to male as opposed to female nudity. But this is bathing at a stream, not sun bathing at a public beach. I agree, if they were young and Balinese, my principles might go out the window as well

[Guest joseph44]

What bothers me most is that a boy (friend) hardly walks beside me but more accompanies me in the "follow-mode".

Not that I'm that bloody ugly (I hope), but more that the partner isn't gay (or says he isn't) and the HE is embarrassed.

 

HERE in Thailand I'm not bothered by what other people might think, that's slightly different in my home country, where they seem to be very "tolerant".

 

I used to have a friend, who wasn't bothered walking hand-in-hand in Pattaya but in Bangkok? No way. Not even in the gay areas.

[Gaybutton]

I used to have a friend, who wasn't bothered walking hand-in-hand in Pattaya but in Bangkok? No way. Not even in the gay areas.

Your comments are very interesting to me. So many of the comments on this thread are all about the farang who are embarrassed. Your post brings up the idea that some of the Thai boys might feel the same embarrassment, even some of the bar boys.

 

I can understand why boys in Pattaya might feel less inhibited than boys in Bangkok might feel. Pattaya is a "different animal." The entire gay area, from Boyztown to Sunee Plaza is primarily gay. While many heterosexual guys and couples are around, I think the gays within that area greatly outnumber them and unless they are blind I think most of the heterosexuals are well aware they are within a primarily gay area.

 

While there are some girlie bars in the Boyztown area, most are on Walking Street and the north area of Pattaya, quite separated from the gay area. There is far less likelihood of encountering intolerant people in the gay area of Pattaya then in Bangkok.

 

For whatever reasons, Pattaya seems to me to be much more gay-friendly than anywhere else in Thailand, which might be the reason your friend had no problem walking hand-in-hand in Pattaya, but it was a different story in Bangkok.

 

Also, Pattaya is a holiday city. The city attracts more farang holiday makers than anything else, while Bangkok is a tremendous city that simply happens to have a few gay areas, but holiday making is not the basic major focus of Bangkok. That too might be a factor that accounts for the difference.

[Guest]

Walking down the street with a gogo boy? Well, I don't come to Pattaya for guys. I come for the world class beaches. For those of you that are there for different reasons, Shame. Shame.