Expected Tips in Chiang Mai

[firecat69]

I know this is an Up to You Question

 

I am quite familiar with the expected tips in Pattaya and Bangkok which are quite different

I do not have a good feel for the average tips in Chiang Mai for short time offs and massage.

 

Thanks for any info

[Guest fountainhall]

This is just a general observation.

 

Am I the only one that gets a bit pissed off at the regularity of questions about tipping that appear on so many Boards? If you feel you have enjoyed the same level of service in Udon or Khon Kaen or Chiang Mai or wherever, why would you want to pay more or less than you would anywhere else in Thailand? Because the cost of living is less than Bangkok? OK, go ahead and give the boy less. Of course, it's up to you - unless an establishment has a minimum tip policy.

 

Is it, I wonder, because so many are worried about subsequently getting pissed off if they find they have paid more than the 'average'? Doesn't worrying about what or how much to tip actually lessen the experience itself? (Oh shit, this guy is really good. Shall I give him Bt.100 more than the average? Or maybe he's worth an extra Bt. 200? Or will I look an idiot if I tip anything over the average?) In any case, if there is an 'average', surely this is arrived at because some tips are higher and some lower. Very occasionally I will take guys from one bar in Bangkok. My tips vary widely - and depend totally on how much I have enjoyed the encounter.

[Guest kcampb49]

This is just a general observation.

 

Am I the only one that gets a bit pissed off at the regularity of questions about tipping that appear on so many Boards?

 

I get pissed off at people who get pissed off when someone asks about the appropriate level of tipping when going somewhere they have not been before or in a while. No one was suggesting any kind of angst over 100 or 200 Baht more or less, the question was to get a general sense of the going fare in order to know what was "fair" for the area and not tip too little (and be viewed as cheap) or tip too much (and be viewed as stupid).

 

I've lived in Pattaya for a year now, and had traveled to Thailand many times prior over the years. I know what the going rate is in Pattaya and Bangkok now, or know where to find out, but I was clueless when I first started traveling here and was delighted that someone would ask these questions on a message board and someone "in the know" would give them an honest answer. Having not been to Chiang Mai in sometime though, and contemplating a visit shortly, I am also curious to know the going rate, on average, BEFORE I go. Asking the question is certainly not going to diminish the experience when I get there. If anything, it will enhance it. Lighten up.

[Guest fountainhall]

I get pissed off at people who get pissed off when someone asks about the appropriate level of tipping when going somewhere they have not been before or in a while . . . I was clueless when I first started traveling here and was delighted that someone would ask these questions on a message board and someone "in the know" would give them an honest answer.

 

We're all entitled to our opinions, and I fully respect yours. But I hoped I had made it clear that the point of my 'observation' was not about any specific question - but about the "regularity" of such questions on "so many Boards". The fact is that anyone who wants to know about so-called 'average' rates can access reasonably up-to-date information from at least half a dozen sites - and probably a great deal more. Yet, not many posters seem to think such research merits a little more time and effort. It would certainly stop the same questions repeatedly being asked!

[PattayaMale]

Just coming back from Chiang Mai I think this is a good question. A very good question, and here is why I think that.

 

I was at a club and thought ok maybe I would ask about paying the bar fine to take someone off. The fine was 200 baht, not bad. Then in talking with the guy he said, "In Chiang Mai more expensive." He felt that for a short time all the guys were getting 3000 baht! I sort of thought he was joking. The next guy I ask was a bit more reasonable, he said usually 3000 baht but now it is low season, not many customers, so he would discount to 1500 for short time. I thought, wow it is more expensive here.

 

I said that I would pay the same as I pay in Pattaya. He asked how much. I said short time 500 baht, but since it is low season I want to help because no customers, so I give 1000 for a good guy. He said he was a good guy!

[Guest kcampb49]

We're all entitled to our opinions, and I fully respect yours. But I hoped I had made it clear that the point of my 'observation' was not about any specific question - but about the "regularity" of such questions on "so many Boards". The fact is that anyone who wants to know about so-called 'average' rates can access reasonably up-to-date information from at least half a dozen sites - and probably a great deal more. Yet, not many posters seem to think such research merits a little more time and effort. It would certainly stop the same questions repeatedly being asked!

 

The trouble with email is that it is often hard to be certain of the intended emphasis. Given the detail you went into following your second sentence, I read you message as being more annoyed with why people ask the question rather than primarily the "regularity" of the question. I stand corrected.

 

I take your point about posters asking a question before doing more research. However:

 

1. This kind of question can be somewhat time sensitive.

 

2. Even first time posters tend to post, I think, on boards where they feel comfortable doing so, a feeling gleaned from reading other comments on the board and getting a sense of the tenor of the comments. There are message boards that I have read that I would not feel comfortable asking a question or putting much credence in many of the responses. It is then human nature to post a quick question to a board we like rather than doing a lot of other research first. Are any of us not quilty of this from time to time? So what? Isn't that a major purpose of these boards?

 

3. To that end, I think it better to not discourage questions through our comments no matter how many times the issue may have been addressed elsewhere and/or before. After all, it is only one mouse click to move on to another topic. I still don't get the reason for you being "pissed off" by these questions.

[Gaybutton]

The fact is that anyone who wants to know about so-called 'average' rates can access reasonably up-to-date information from at least half a dozen sites

Including this site. Sorry, but I agree with kcampb49 on this issue. The topic makes it perfectly clear what this thread is about. If some people are bored reading about the same kind of question appearing ad nauseum, the simply don't read the thread or just tolerate the 10 seconds you lose reading a "how much to tip" question.

 

I see no reason why people should be afraid to ask a question on this site, even if the same question has been asked dozens of times.

 

On some boards, the most prolific responses to legitimate questions consist primarily of put-downs and snide remarks. That's not going to happen on this board. "How much to tip" questions are legitimate and I am not going to see our board users become intimidated about asking their questions simply because some board veterans are annoyed or think our board users are under an obligation to spend hours wading through lord-knows-how-many posts to find the answers they seek.

 

Sorry, but my stance is if anyone has a legitimate question, then they should feel perfectly free to ask it and expect knowledgeable people to provide the answers, without having to endure the displeasure of those who find these sorts of posts boring.

[Guest kcampb49]

Just coming back from Chiang Mai I think this is a good question. A very good question, and here is why I think that.

 

"In Chiang Mai more expensive." He felt that for a short time all the guys were getting 3000 baht! I sort of thought he was joking. The next guy I ask was a bit more reasonable, he said usually 3000 baht but now it is low season, not many customers, so he would discount to 1500 for short time. I thought, wow it is more expensive here.

 

 

Jeeezsus! 3000 Baht normal, 1500 Baht discount! Thanks for the timely information!!! I guess

[Gaybutton]

3000 Baht normal, 1500 Baht discount

If a boy anywhere in Thailand, including Chiang Mai or Bangkok, ever tried to get prices like that out of me, then he first would have to wait several minutes for me to stop laughing. 1000 baht, tops, for short time. 1500 tops, for over night. If a boy ever tries to get me to go beyond that, then he'll quickly find out just how slow business really is.

[firecat69]

to Fountainhall

 

If you can find any recent information on tips in Chiang Mai then you are a better man then me. I am quite familiar with all the boards and have at times contributed to tip information.

 

However Chiang Mai does not get a lot of posts . With the apparent resurgence the scene with Power Boys etc , I though I might give it a try.

 

Just like I don't offer the bars in Pattaya 250 baht for their drinks because that is what I must pay in Bangkok, I would prefer not to overpay for the boys in Chiang Mai. I usually err on the high side but I would like to know what that is.

 

Hopefully some recent visitors will have more insight.

 

Thanks to PattayaMale for his comments.

[Guest fountainhall]

Just like I don't offer the bars in Pattaya 250 baht for their drinks because that is what I must pay in Bangkok, I would prefer not to overpay for the boys in Chiang Mai. I usually err on the high side but I would like to know what that is.

 

This and all other points noted. cruisingforsex, for one, has a lot of information about several cities. A number of posts on that Board, including a few of my own, discuss the bars and massage places in Chiang Mai - although mine deal more with massage as I don't like the bars much now in Chiang Mai. Tips are mentioned on some. Indeed, there are a number of informative threads on this Board, including one headed “Massage Parlours in Chiang Mai” with 15 posts. This was started by GT on 2nd March 2009.

 

The trouble with email is that it is often hard to be certain of the intended emphasis.

 

I do agree, and will try to be more precise in future.

 

"How much to tip" questions are legitimate and I am not going to see our board users become intimidated about asking their questions simply because some board veterans are annoyed or think our board users are under an obligation to spend hours wading through lord-knows-how-many posts to find the answers they seek.

 

Fair enough. But that leads me to ask: what is the point of the rather good SEARCH bar on this and other Boards?

 

Then in talking with the guy he said, "In Chiang Mai more expensive." He felt that for a short time all the guys were getting 3000 baht! I sort of thought he was joking. The next guy I ask was a bit more reasonable, he said usually 3000 baht but now it is low season, not many customers, so he would discount to 1500 for short time. I thought, wow it is more expensive here.

 

I said that I would pay the same as I pay in Pattaya. He asked how much. I said short time 500 baht, but since it is low season I want to help because no customers, so I give 1000 for a good guy. He said he was a good guy!

 

All I can add to this, with the greatest respect, is “What on earth do you expect a guy to say?” You asked him rather than making an offer. He knows he is in a bargaining position. Of course he is going to pitch high. He was probably well aware that in most commercial bargaining people generally start at 50% of the asking rate, and so he was propably looking for Bt. 1,500 in the first place. Only an assumption!

 

However, let me get down to the question posed by firecat69 and try to be constructive. From my own experience, I have been in Chiang Mai 4 times this year - January, March, June and September. As far as I know, there are no go-go bars as such (perhaps with the exception of the new Adam's Apple which I have not yet visited). The others, like Circle Pub and New My Way, are host bars. The problem is that many, probably most, of the boys are straight. Many look gorgeous and are keen to be offed. But once in your room, as a couple of my friends discovered, they are almost invariably duds. From my limited experience, make sure the guy is gay and ready and willing to do what you want.

 

As I have posted before on this Board, the bars around The Peak have largely disappeared. These used to be quite fun with a few boys willing to be offed. Bt1,000 would be warmly welcomed, and you could probably have got away with less. That scene, as also mentioned in my post, has largely moved to the bars in an alley behind the D2 hotel. Maybe it's just me, but I found the guys less interesting and less attractive - but chacun a son gout.

 

As also posted, I visited 4 different massage parlours - Mystic Orient Massage, His Club (twice), River House Massage and 2 Brothers (twice). Each had a menu with minimum tips listed for each type and length of massage. I really cannot remember the amounts (about Bt. 500 to Bt. 900 for between one and two hours) but it's all there for you in black and white. This is the tip you must pay to the masseur, unless you feel you've had a really good time and want to give more. I found Mystic Orient and River House were complete duds, and these guys got the minimum tip. However, on both visits the rain was extremely heavy and only a few boys had turned up. Check on the aforementioned “Massage Parlours in Chiang Mai” and on utopia-asia.com and you will see some more favourable comments. His Club was much better on the first visit and so I upped the tip by Bt.200, less so on the second. The best, by far, was a gay guy from Udon Thani who worked at Two Brothers. Not only did he speak quite good English, he was really fun to be with, he gave a good massage and, unusually, a great happy ending. I ended up going back on the following visit - and it was as good as the first. He got the minimum tip plus about Bt. 600 more.

 

I say "unusually" above because the happy endings one is used to in Bangkok are, in my experience, much rarer in Chiang Mai massage places. The boys seem to think a hand-job is all they are expected to perform and will not consider anything else. I have no idea why - although I know a good many straight guys also work as masseurs.

[Gaybutton]

Fair enough. But that leads me to ask: what is the point of the rather good SEARCH bar on this and other Boards?

To find out how much to tip bar boys, what exactly would you enter into the search bar? Anything I've tried entering yields over 100 results, many of which don't answer the question or even address it. The search is great if you are looking for something very specific. For general things, it works, but is a pain. How do you know the person who posted the question didn't first try a search, but still couldn't find the information he wanted?

 

If it was me, I would post my question and if somebody doesn't like the idea that I posted my question or tells me my question bores him, that would be his problem, not mine. How long does it take to read somebody's question? How are you going to feel if you post a question and the next thing you know you've got people telling you your question bores them or they start putting you down?

 

Again, I'm sorry, but one thing I will never do is start telling people that they have to do a search before asking their question or start telling people that they're not to post a question that might bore a few people. Part of the point of this board even existing is precisely to be a place where people can post their questions and get good, reliable answers. I don't want anyone made to feel uncomfortable about posting legitimate questions on this board. If I'm going to make anyone feel uncomfortable, it's going to be the people who put down others simply because they dislike the fact that the question has previously been addressed. Don't forget, all of us were newbies once.

[Guest fountainhall]

Part of the point of this board even existing is precisely to be a place where people can post their questions and get good, reliable answers. I don't want anyone made to feel uncomfortable about posting legitimate questions on this board. If I'm going to make anyone feel uncomfortable, it's going to be the people who put down others simply because they dislike the fact that the question has previously been addressed.

 

I made what I felt was a valid general point. The whole question of minimum tips is one that has been discussed on many occasions on this Board (although less so re Chiang Mai as Bangkok and Pattaya) - as I discovered when I used the SEARCH box! And it has generated extremes of views. Notwithstanding the comments to date on this particular thread, I still feel it is valid. I fail to understand how it can be interpreted as making anyone feel uncomfortable. Indeed, as I hoped, it has generated a lively - and, I suggest, useful - debate. Obviously, other posters do not agree with me. This I fully accept.

 

As I have stated, I regret my original point was slightly misinterpreted as being specific rather than general (has anyone actually read it carefully?). However, to redress the balance, I have also provided what I trust is a useful contribution of my own recent experiences in Chiang Mai with some specific references to tipping. Certainly when many of these points were posted earlier on this Board, they were welcomed (including, if I recall correctly, by GB). So far on this thread, I have seen no other poster address that original question about tipping - only register their displeasure at what they thought I had said.

 

However, having made the point, I will now cease to comment on it - and other posters' comments on it. I will restrict future posts to the specific subject raised.

[Guest]

There is no need whatsoever for anyone to whinge about this topic, as the title is clear & you can choose not to participate if the topic is of no interest.

 

Asking about tips is a perfectly valid question. I'm quite interested in the subject as I do not want to be mean mean or overly generous with tips.

[Guest alaan]

I too cannot understand why perfectly reasonable queries get sharp replies ..what better way to find out the up-to-date situation regarding this subject than by coming to a resource such as the gay thailand forums to benefit from others recent experiences......

 

Firecat's post received a similar unhelpful initial response on SGT...i replied to the poster there that i tip the same level Pattaya/Phuket/Bkk/Chiang Mai at bt1000 + sometimes extra for taxi/eats for ST/massage and bt1500 LT with extra for taxi/eats if the attitude has been good.

 

And that on my last visit to Chiang Mai recently an overnight tip of Bt1500 was happily received.....have never come across bt3000 being requested as the expected standard before. Although i do know from boys that some (jai-dee?) Japanese customers are happy to tip at this level.

[Gaybutton]

I made what I felt was a valid general point.

Everyone is entitled to his opinion and that certainly includes you. Both your opinion and mine ought to be clear by now. My opinion applies to you just as strongly as anyone's. In your post you wrote that you will no longer comment on this subject. But please do, if you wish. I guarantee I will be just as protective of you if anyone tries to put you down merely because your opinion differs from their own. We're debating the issue itself, not the personalities of those expressing their opinions.

[Guest]

Heaven forbid that I get in on the subject of tips. I get enough anger directed toward me when I do, but since I have a little time tonight, I'll join in the fray.

 

I think the boys in Pattaya and Chiang Mai deserve the same as those in Bangkok. I don't think there should be any major difference between the areas. I think 1500 is the right amount for a true short time and 2000 plus for an over night. That is just IMHO.

[Gaybutton]

I think 1500 is the right amount for a true short time and 2000 plus for an over night.

Damn! Why didn't you post that before I said I wouldn't let anyone put others down for expressing their opinions . . . . . ?

[Guest kcampb49]

I think 1500 is the right amount for a true short time and 2000 plus for an over night. That is just IMHO.

 

Please define "true short time." 1500 Baht seems high to me but maybe I'm thinking of less time than a "true short time." I'm usually "in and out," as it were, in an hour and ready to send the guy on his way.

[Gaybutton]

I'm usually "in and out," as it were, in an hour and ready to send the guy on his way.

That's pretty much it. None of these boys are working with a stopwatch. Short time essentially means you take the boy to your room, do whatever it is you are going to do, and that's the end of it. The boy is given his "tip," transportation money if your room is not within easy walking distance for him, and see you later.

[Guest fountainhall]

We're debating the issue itself

 

Let me therefore add some points re tipping (although not specific to Chiang Mai) which might help the discussion. At the end, I pose a question.

 

When I used the SEARCH box, I found a number of interesting threads on tipping from some time ago. One titled Farang Logic . . . started on 24 April 2006 centres on tipping and how to treat a boy you off, and may be of interest to those new to the Board since then. Most posters generally agreed the boys should be treated as though on a date.

 

On April 25, GB wrote (as I am sure he remembers well ) –

 

"Farang" need to understand that these boys are working for a living, and they get damned little money as it is . . . "farang" are supposed to treat him as if they were on a date, but the tip he receives should be no less than 1000 baht. If he spends the night with you, then he should receive no less than 1500 baht. That's the going rate in Pattaya and that's why the boy goes "off" with a "farang" in the first place.

 

Jomtien, making his first post, replied –

 

Treat him as if it were a date? This is a prostitute, a paid sexual encounter, a business transaction . . . not a date. And when did Emily Post decide the going rate in Pattaya was 1500B ? Did I miss the announcement?

 

– which got GT’s ire with the following response (although whether with tongue in cheek I am not sure) –

 

Since you are new, you may have missed the announcment. 1500 for an overnight is the minimum somone should tip someone in Pattaya. There was a big meeting about this in Boyztown. It was a up or down vote and majority rules. The votes for the Yea won and the 1500 baht rate was set.

 

Stef entered the discussion with this –

 

My logic is simply to pay the boys a minimum fee no matter where you are in Thailand. 1000 Baths for short time + tips . . . When I have a great time with a boy, then I usually give him a minimum of 1,200 to 1,500 Baths for a short time. That's me and I think it is fair.

 

GB returned –

 

The standard is 1000 baht for short time and 1500 baht for long time, and that has been the standard for years. If anything, due to inflation the tip amount ought to be more. Just about everyone who has experience in Thailand knows the going rate and I think these people know it too.

 

This irked another relatively new poster, fishing –

 

No it has not!! As I said previously I have not offed for three years and so cannot comment from personal experience on recent changes, but there has simply not been a standard for years, nor should there be now.

 

Theirs is a service industry and to impose or try to set a standard charge is as pointless as setting a standard charge for a meal without considering whether you are dining at the Royal Cliff or a noodle stall . . . There can be no "standard" tip as long as there are no standard boys, standard customers or standard services.

 

Up2u disagreed, adding in his opinion Bt1,000 short time/Bt.1,500 overnight –

 

. . . has been rate since I started coming to LOS in 1998.

 

Calling himself a “newbie to the scene”, noy9000 stated –

 

I must say that 1000THB, 1500THB is reasonable - especially to western standards. These boys have short shelf-life (most maxed out by 23-25) this period of time in the bar is the time to save money.

 

I hope repeating all the above has proved informative given the nature of this thread, and not too boring. Just on that one thread, though, some disagreement is obvious, but there is more general agreement that short time/long time rates at the time were Bt1.000/Bt.1,500. I have two observations and one specific question which I throw out for general discussion.

 

i. that thread is now 3 ½ years old(!)

ii. we have read that these minimum tips had been the “standard for years”.

 

If 1,000/1,500 was the “standard for years” (and might even have been raised “due to inflation” - no-one can doubt there has been inflation), can someone enlighten me as to why at the end of 2009 we are still talking about 1,000/1,500? Is this merely market forces, tourism downturn etc.?

[firecat69]

Is this merely market forces, tourism downturn etc.?

 

Not sure for others but as an American I was getting 42 baht to the $ in 2006 so 1000 baht costs me 20-25% more then it did in 2006 .How that translates into what 1000 baht buys for the average Thai in 2009 versus 2006 , I am not sure. But for argument's sake lets say the accepted tip had grown from 1000 baht to 1500 baht over those 3 years. That would mean the price would have almost doubled in 3 years.

 

Would that effect the number of visitors and thus the income of the Boys. I think so.

[Gaybutton]

can someone enlighten me as to why at the end of 2009 we are still talking about 1,000/1,500? Is this merely market forces, tourism downturn etc.?

Of course there has been inflation, but most of the inflation has not affected the things that these boys usually spend their money on. The food they eat still costs essentially the same as it cost way back when. Their room rent costs just about the same. Their clothes cost about the same. The top-ups for their telephones cost the same. Their transportation costs the same.

[Guest fountainhall]

Not sure for others but as an American I was getting 42 baht to the $ in 2006 so 1000 baht costs me 20-25% more then it did in 2006 . . . for arguments sake lets say the accepted tip had grown from 1000 baht to 1500 baht over those 3 years. That would mean the price would have almost doubled in 3 years.

 

Would that effect the number of visitors and thus the income of the Boys. I think so.

 

Personally I think it is unfair to the boys to relate what they earn to what we, the buyers of their services, have to pay to purchase our Baht. I am also not sure that currency variations have that much affect on inbound tourism. I say this because there has been a huge variation in the Baht against other currencies over the last 12 years. In early 1997, for example, $1 bought Bt. 25. By early 1998, the Baht had crashed and the dollar could buy around Bt. 57. Other currencies were similarly upvalued. Did that mean the number of tourists increased and the average tip went up? I don't know, but I expect not - if only because the entire region was so severely affected by the Asian economic crisis that inbound tourism nosedived. The number of western tourists may have increased, but Asian tourists declined. My guess is the number of bar customers would have been static - at best.

 

We also have to remember two other factors. Whilst the dollar has been on the decline in recent years, other currencies have been increasing. So whilst tips for US citizens are now 'higher', those for Australians, Chinese, Japanese and others are 'lower'.

 

Then, inbound tourism has been severely impacted on several occasions since the 1997 crisis by non-currency factors that have had a much greater effect on the boys' earnings. When the economy was finally beginning to recover in the early 2000s, Thailand was hit with SARS in 2003, then the tsunami in 2005, the airport closures in 2008, the worst worldwide recession in goodness knows how many decades - and more political riots earlier this year.

 

Who'd be a bar boy! (just a rhetorical question!)

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

So it would be safe to assume that anything between Baht 1,000 - 1,500 would be acceptable, generally?