PGF Dinner

[PattayaMale]

I really support the mission of the PGF. It has raised a very large fund of money over the past 7 years.

 

When I saw the price to attend the dinner at Amor was 1270 baht I thought it must be an exotic menu. Then I read that the main course was roasted chicken and dressing....for 1270!

 

True, 500 goes to PGF off the top, meaning 770 for the roast chicken dinner. But I think that must be the highest menu price for chicken in Pattaya! At Cherry's all-you can eat menus through the week you get a Amuse Boche, all you can eat salad bar, all you can eat main which could include all of the following and as much as you want: large shrimp kebab, salmon, strip steak, beef fillet, chicken, 2 kinds of pork, cooked vegetable, roasted potatoes, choice of desert, coffee or tea for 295 baht.

 

Now I imagine that the dinner will be sold out and I hope it is. But gosh, why such a premium for a dinner at Amor? Who are we really raising money for people with HIV or Amor Restaurant?

 

If the event was held at Cherry's, PGF could get 1000 baht instead of 500 and people would get a wonderfully cooked all you can eat dinner for almost the same price!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I couldn't agree with you more. The places that host (if that is the right word) these PGF dinners rake in the cash. They are way over priced and call it a charity dinner. That's why I never attend these dinners.

[Guest Soi10Tom]

I don't think anyone complaining on any of the three main boards are upset about the price, but about the small % of it that is going to charity... a 1,270 baht donation is not a big deal, and I suspect, actually I know, that many of the posters on all of these boards give generously to many causes around Thailand. The point of irritation is that no one likes being ripped off, and a 770 baht chicken, even with hors d'oeuvres, soup, salad and desert is a rip off. I would think that most any proper restaurateur would want to make a modest profit and see to it that the greatest amount possible goes to charity....that is not the case in this instance.

[Gaybutton]

This issue seems to come up whenever there is a PGF dinner. In fairness, before labeling the price as a rip-off, I would think some of those complaining about the price ought to at least contact Richard Burk, owner of the Amor, either by telephone or Email and ask him why he is charging that amount, and then post his response.

 

His web site, with contact information, is http://www.amorrestaurant.com

[Guest lvdkeyes]

It is not only at Amor, but all of the charity venues, that overcharge compared to what the charity gets.

[Gaybutton]

It is not only at Amor, but all of the charity venues, that overcharge compared to what the charity gets.

That's why I said this issue comes up every time there is a PGF charity dinner, but nobody seems to want to contact the involved restaurants and ask about the charges. I think it's expensive too, but I don't know why it's expensive. Before I would post messages complaining about it I would contact the restaurant and ask. Maybe there is a justifiable reason. I don't know. And if nobody contacts the restaurant, then nobody knows. They are only posting an assumption.

 

Quite frankly I support PGF, but my support is not going to include paying 1270 baht for a chicken dinner, even if the price is totally justifiable. But I'm also not going to complain about the price without first getting the facts.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

The fact is it is way overpriced. Talking to the owners will get you absolutely no where as long as they continue to get people to pay their prices.

[PattayaMale]

GB knows Richard very well. I do not. But I believe that any discussion would lead to nothing but animosity.

 

Soi10Tom has it exactly right. It is the % of the 1270 going to charity that is small. I know the price of chicken. I can get a wonderful roasted chicken dinner including soup, salad, Roasted chicken, potatoes, cooked vegetable, and desert any Monday at Kaz for about 300 baht. If they can do it and make a profit I think other places can do. And remember at a banquet, many people have a few cocktails which adds greatly to a owners profit.

 

So a 1270 ticket with 900 baht to PGF would be able to be done.

 

But it is ok as the tickets will sell out and I am happy that it will. I would just prefer PGF to get 100% more from each ticket. If that were the case I would certainly go.

 

It is not being a penny pincher. But offended that a restaurant profits so greatly for a charity event.

[Bob]

I've attended a few PGF events when, in the past, I was in the Pattaya area but, frankly, I'm rarely near the place as I hang out in other parts of Thailand when I'm in country. And I'm on record for praising a lot of the work that the PGF (and the Heartt program) has done.

 

But I must admit that my hackles stand up when I hear posters expressly or impliedly bitching on a public board about which charity is being benefitted, that the dinners cost too much, or whatever. It seems to me (just my opinion and it's worth what you're paying for it) that, if you're supporting the concept of the PGF and you don't like something they're doing (which charity they benefit, how they set up the dinners, cost, or whatever), then go to one of the PGF meetings and express your opinion. If, however, you really have no involvement in the PGF, then I'm not sure you really have any right to question anything they do.

 

Maybe I'm off base but I've always thought that purpose of the PGF in these various events is twofold: to provide some good charitable works and to benefit the gay venues participating. Presuming that's the case, I do hope that the gay venues make a profit or at least break even on these various events so the charitable work will continue. At the end of the day, all that counts to me is that the charities are benefitted.

 

Presuming I was involved in the PGF meetings and decisions (and I'm not), then I'd hope there would be a spirited debate as to how best to raise the funds for charity. And, if I thought we'd raise more money by letting the gay venues make a handsome profit, I'd vote for that; however, if it appeared that you could raise just as much money or more by hard bargaining with the gay venues as to what they could make, then I'd vote for that.

 

However they've decided to do it - and it's natural, I suppose, that the gay venues that make up the leadership of PGF have a separate motive to make some money in these hard times - the whole program certainly has worked a lot of good over the years.

 

I thought GB's suggestion to lvdkeyes, given he had a question as to why Amor was charging so much, that he go talk to Richard at Amor was eminently fair - and probably a little more courteous to Richard than simply saying on this forum that what he is doing is overpriced. Saying that talking to the owners will get you nowhere is just a bit of negative guesswork when you haven't made the easy effort to simply talk to Richard or any of the owners involved.

[Gaybutton]

GB knows Richard very well. I do not. But I believe that any discussion would lead to nothing but animosity.

Yes, I do know Richard quite well, but rest assured that my friendship with him has nothing to do with my position on this issue. I would have taken the same position no matter which restaurant was involved. There is no reason for anyone to refrain from discussing the issue here. I said I too think the price is very expensive and I'm not going to the dinner because of it, despite my personal friendship with Richard.

 

I thought GB's suggestion to lvdkeyes, given he had a question as to why Amor was charging so much, that he go talk to Richard at Amor was eminently fair

For the record, my suggestion was not directed specifically toward lvdkeyes. I'm simply trying to convey my position that before anyone posts complaints about the price, they ought to at least contact the venue owner and ask why the price is as high as it is.

[Guest fountainhall]

I have not been to a charity dinner in Pattaya, have never been to the restaurant and know no-one involved with it. I also know nothing about restaurant economics! Having read this post, tho', I decided to check out Amor's regular menu and prices, because most organised dinner functions do bear some relation to the menu costs, less a volume discount.

 

I noted that Amor's has a big staff overhead and a very large menu. Also noted the PGF dinner is not just a 'chicken dinner' as some have described it. There is amuse bouche, a starter, soup, sorbet, dessert and coffee as well. Although not every item is on the main menu, taking average prices and a little guesswork, I end up with a cost that is probably around 15% below walk-in prices. Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable from the restaurant's viewpoint. Am I wrong? Had the PGF wished to bring the price down further, surely it would have made more sense to go to a less expensive establishment?

[Bob]

For the record, my suggestion was not directed specifically toward lvdkeyes. I'm simply trying to convey my position that before anyone posts complaints about the price, they ought to at least contact the venue owner and ask why the price is as high as it is.

 

I guess I misread that, GB. And, for the record, I'm not trying to pick on lvdkeyes as he seems to be a reasonable guy.

 

Still, though, a fair suggestion for those who question the pricing of the dinners.

[Guest paulg]

I decided to check out Amor's regular menu and prices, because most organised dinner functions do bear some relation to the menu costs, less a volume discount.

I agree totally. Most of the complaints come from people that would not attend if the dinner was half that price with a lower donation.

If you eat out at Brunos, Manhattan or other restaurants the main course is almost 1000baht. The same people that rant away each year about this function, neglect to raise the same issue when Brunos has a similar night.

My attitude is if you cant afford to go,then why get involved in throwing shit at a function that will be sold out or close to, to people who can aford and do not object

to the price, the drinks and to buying raffle tickets for the benefit of the charities

that PGF supports.

I would rather see those people that complain say, "I will not attend but here is my 500 baht donation to be included in the night's takings"

[Guest paulg]

I have not been to a charity dinner in Pattaya, have never been to the restaurant and know no-one involved with it. I also know nothing about restaurant economics! Having read this post, tho', I decided to check out Amor's regular menu and prices, because most organised dinner functions do bear some relation to the menu costs, less a volume discount.

 

I noted that Amor's has a big staff overhead and a very large menu. Also noted the PGF dinner is not just a 'chicken dinner' as some have described it. There is amuse bouche, a starter, soup, sorbet, dessert and coffee as well. Although not every item is on the main menu, taking average prices and a little guesswork, I end up with a cost that is probably around 15% below walk-in prices. Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable from the restaurant's viewpoint. Am I wrong? Had the PGF wished to bring the price down further, surely it would have made more sense to go to a less expensive establishment?

 

 

I agree totally. Most of the complaints come from people that would not attend if the dinner was half that price with a lower donation.

If you eat out at Brunos, Manhattan or other restaurants the main course is almost 1000baht. The same people that rant away each year about this function, neglect to raise the same issue when Brunos has a similar night.

My attitude is if you cant afford to go,then why get involved in throwing shit at a function that will be sold out or close to, to people who can aford and do not object

to the price, the drinks and to buying raffle tickets for the benefit of the charities

that PGF supports.

I would rather see those people that complain say, "I will not attend but here is my 500 baht donation to be included in the night's takings"

[Guest lvdkeyes]

To set the record straight about restaurant prices. I recently ate at Manhattan's. Their early bird dinner (until 730PM) for 3 courses was 750 baht, not 1000 baht.

 

I am not the first or only one to comment about the price of these PGF dinners and I was not singling out this particular restaurant.

 

I have attended other charity functions in Pattaya and have donated to various charities, so the point that was made about saying, "I am not attending, but here is my 500 baht..." was uncalled for.

 

This is the last post I will make on the subject to avoid haggling on and on.

[Gaybutton]

Another point is that for the PGF dinner the restaurant serves only the set of people who come for the dinner. The restaurant will have no other customers that night. Because all the meals need to be ready and served at the same time, I know that Richard calls in all of his staff, even the ones who normally would have that night off and they have to be paid.

 

I don't know how much the restaurant has to take in to at least break even. I see no reason why the restaurant should lose money and I also see no reason why the restaurant shouldn't be entitled to make some money.

 

Richard is the chairman of PGF. ANd Pattayamale is right. I know him very well, well enough to know that he is not trying to profiteer or rip off anyone.

 

The bottom line seems simple enough to me. If you enjoy the PGF dinners and are willing to pay the price, then go. If not, then don't go. What's the problem?

[PattayaMale]

I agree totally. Most of the complaints come from people that would not attend if the dinner was half that price with a lower donation.

If you eat out at Brunos, Manhattan or other restaurants the main course is almost 1000baht. The same people that rant away each year about this function, neglect to raise the same issue when Brunos has a similar night.

My attitude is if you cant afford to go,then why get involved in throwing shit at a function that will be sold out or close to, to people who can aford and do not object

to the price, the drinks and to buying raffle tickets for the benefit of the charities

that PGF supports.

I would rather see those people that complain say, "I will not attend but here is my 500 baht donation to be included in the night's takings"

 

Since I was the one who started the post, my objection seems to be getting a little twisted.

 

As to the statement "if you can't afford to go" and "would not attend if the price was half with a lower donation" was never part of the discussion. This had nothing to do with "if you can't afford to go". As for me, I can easily afford it and over the years have attended several dinners and functions and bought many raffle tickets. That was NOT the point.

 

My objection was based on a simple principle that a charity event should not be used as a price gouge. I agree a fair profit should be made by the host holding the event.

 

I mentioned the price for this event only because in my opinion 770 for the menu of that night is too high. If the menu for the night was more labor intensive to cook with higher priced ingredients, I would have applauded. And truly if this was not a charity night, I doubt many would rush to the restaurant to pay 770 baht($24)for roast chicken with all the fixings. However, maybe some would.

 

In low season, many restaurants are lucky to have 30% of the tables taken the entire night. Manhatan's had 3 customers when I was there a few weeks back from 7:30 - 9:30.

 

I know this event will be packed. And as I said in my original post, I am pleased about the money the charity will raise. It is a worthwhile cause

[Guest paulg]

A search on google to get Amor detailed menu show the 10 choices of chicken available on his a la carte menu range from 340-420 baht I could not be bothered chasing through the other items but your 750 baht 7 course menu plus 500 donation looks very reasonable to me.

 

http://www.amorrestaurant.com/

 

From his specials board on chalkboard at entrance , 3 course dinner is 450 baht with no choice. This function has a more extensive menu for an extra 300 baht plus donation.

 

As Gaybutton pointed out a function like this needs days of extra preparation, extra staff hours that has to be paid, it needs extra staff in the kitchen on the night and extra floor staff. The fact that all meals are served almost at once is a nightmare for a small kitchen and also for partly trained Thai floor staff.

 

He has pitched his function to a certain market, they do not complain about the price and it will be successful again.

[Guest Soi10Tom]

Yikes!!!! I thought charity was about love and giving to a worthy cause. I can not believe how twisted the arguements of the defenders of Amor prices have become, so let's just cut the middle men, Amor and the dead chicken, out of the equation and donate directly to a charity that will give 100% of your generosity directly to the beneficiary; a REAL HUMAN. I currently support one child...how about some of you donating directly to a real child instead of a dead chicken and a restaurant??? Take some love and positive feelings away from this conversation rather than sitting around a table at another boring dinner with a bunch of other old guys while eating and drinking too much as you are listening to another old goat with a mike ramble on. Come on guys make a real contribution to the future!!! http://pattayastreetkids.homestead.com/childrenneedingsponsors.html

[Guest paulg]

just cut the middle men, Amor and the dead chicken, out of the equation and donate directly to a charity that will give 100% of your generosity directly to the beneficiary; a REAL HUMAN. I currently support one child...how about some of you donating directly to a real child instead of a dead chicken and a restaurant??? Take some love and positive feelings away from this conversation rather than sitting around a table at another boring dinner with a bunch of other old guys while eating and drinking too much as you are listening to another old goat with a mike ramble on. Come on guys make a real contribution to the future!!! http://pattayastreetkids.homestead.com/childrenneedingsponsors.html

 

 

I think this is insulting to all the work that is done by those involved with Heartt2000

You currently support one child but feel nobody else is doing anything worthwhile.

Did not know we have to brag about what we do or what we spend

[Guest paulg]

just cut the middle men, Amor and the dead chicken, out of the equation and donate directly to a charity that will give 100% of your generosity directly to the beneficiary; a REAL HUMAN. I currently support one child...how about some of you donating directly to a real child instead of a dead chicken and a restaurant??? Take some love and positive feelings away from this conversation rather than sitting around a table at another boring dinner with a bunch of other old guys while eating and drinking too much as you are listening to another old goat with a mike ramble on. Come on guys make a real contribution to the future!!! http://pattayastreetkids.homestead.com/childrenneedingsponsors.html

 

 

I think this is insulting to all the work that is done by those involved with Heartt2000

You currently support one child but feel nobody else is doing anything worthwhile.

Did not know we have to brag about what we do or what we spend

[Guest fountainhall]

I recently ate at Manhattan's. Their early bird dinner (until 730PM) for 3 courses was 750 baht, not 1000 baht

 

Early Bird Dinners/Happy Hours and their ilk are always a good deal lower than main evening prices. So that's not really comparing like with like. When I lived in Japan, I ate like a king at French, Italian and other continental restaurants, but only because I went for their set lunch menus. Apart from slightly smaller portions, the cost would always be less than 25% (yes, 25%!) of the cost of the same meal in the evening. My understanding is that all these types of lower cost promotions are primarily to get punters in at less attractive times. Also, don't forget, as GB pointed out, that charity functions usually take over most if not all of a restaurant for a much longer time than taken by walk-in guests.

 

I can not believe how twisted the arguements of the defenders of Amor prices have become, so let's just cut the middle men, Amor and the dead chicken, out of the equation and donate directly to a charity that will give 100% of your generosity directly to the beneficiary; a REAL HUMAN

 

I object strongly to that comment. Indeed it makes me angry that anyone would make it. Soi10Tom - do you want to see a list of the charities I have supported in recent years, including major donations to the Red Cross for the earthquake appeals in China and Pakistan? Maybe we can compare. No, I won't be going to the PGF dinner, but that's because I do not live in Pattaya. But I wholeheartedly support those who do - as I do you and those who help kids through the 'pattaya street kids' and other charities.

[PattayaMale]

May I suggest that those that took exception to soi10Tom's comment missed the point. Maybe if the suggestion would be read without a bias, a good point is made.

 

Remember that a poster suggested that "if you can't afford to pay" 1270 baht, do go and give 500 baht donation directly to PFG.

 

Soi10Tom suggested to us that instead of arguing over a 770 roast chicken dinner we could forgo the 770 baht and contribute to a charity that has no "middleman". In other words donate 500 directly to PGF and 770 directly to "your" child. That way a child who has to pay 20 baht a day for lunch at school would be able to get almost 40 lunches at school.

 

I am at a loss as to why paulg and fountainhall object so strongly to a suggestion of helping a charity and passing up the "middleman", unless they did not understand the post.

 

Also, why would a poster assume that the child soi10Tom said he was helping is the only charity he supports? Was it a need to say "I am better than you."???

 

I am sure that those that will attend the up coming dinner at Amor will have a good time and help raise a lot of money for a very worthy charity. Maybe someone will win the ruby and diamond ring and donate its value to the street kids project or back to PGF.

 

But I would like to suggest a function that the PGF puts on. That is the "street party". For a small entry fee, which includes a drink, you can get great entertainment. You also give whatever you want directly to the PGF charity by buying raffle tickets. For me it is fun to buy several thousand baht worth of tickets and give them to some of the guys working the different venues.

[Guest fountainhall]

May I suggest that those that took exception to soi10Tom's comment missed the point. Maybe if the suggestion would be read without a bias, a good point is made

 

Quite frankly, I am not sure how one of soi10Tom's first somewhat dogmatic comments is "missing the point" or how it can be read without bias -

 

The point of irritation is that no one likes being ripped off, and a 770 baht chicken, even with hors d'oeuvres, soup, salad and desert is a rip off

 

It states a position with which several of us disagree quite strongly. But whilst we have have tried merely to point out that the term "rip-off" seems not to be accurate in this case, please understand that does not mean we disagree with his admirable "missing out the middle-man" suggestion.

 

I have been involved with a lot of charity functions at various times in my life. I know that in Hong Kong, for example, you can rarely raise large amounts of charitable dollars from a group of people without giving a lavish dinner at a 5-star hotel with often over-the-top decorations and accompanied by some equally lavish entertainment, often flown in from overseas. These guys realise that with all the competition for charitable giving, you have to spend money to make money for your charities - and they make it big!

 

Equally, whereas there are the taipans and their like who will write a cheque for a massive amount just because someone on the charity committee twisted their arm in the right way, there are vast numbers who contribute to many charities in much smaller and anonymous ways.

 

My view is that there is no right or wrong way. Obviously the PGF people think there is nothing wrong with raising money through a dinner. Again I know nothing about this dinner, but perhaps it will involve other fund raising elements - a raffle, auction etc. If not, then I certainly think they should consider such things in future.

 

To try and show I am not biased, I was going to contribute to the 'pattaya street kids' charity by sending a cheque next week. However, having checked the website, I note this is a UK-based charity. I will therefore find a local charity with similar objectives. So perhaps the discussion on this Board will not be just hot air! I encourage other to do likewise.

[bkkguy]

Amor runs many special events, eg christmas, valentines, thanksgiving etc, and they all require special planning, extra staff, logistical problems etc but they are usually run because they increase sales and profits for the restaurant

 

Amor also runs PGF charity dinners and faces very similar problems on these nights, so how do these fare after the set donation to charity?

 

on a typical night at this time of year what net profit does Amor make, and what net profit will they make on this event - if significantly less then good for them for supporting the charity, if significantly greater then I suppose we should at least be grateful that the charity has received at least some money while the venue has lined their own pockets and gained kudos for helping the community

 

one of the main difference between charity events organized by the charity and charity events organized by venues is that for charity events most people donate time, resources, etc as well as donations so costs are minimal and proceeds to the charity are maximized and costs and returns are usually available to the public, venues tend to donate set amounts from ticket sales, proceeds from raffles, etc with very little transparency thus almost invariably there are these types of discussions about profit by the venues

 

I continue to be surprised that the PGF and venues do not learn from their experience and improve their transparency and accountability or find a better way of organizing such events!

 

bkkguy