Another Police Raid in Soi Sunee

[TotallyOz]

Pattaya, September 8 [PATTAYA ONE NEWS] : In the early hours of Tuesday Morning, the Banglamung District Licensing Officials were back in Soi Sunee Plaza in South Pattaya to check a total of 4 bars who were known to be operating illegally following previous raids. The raid was led by Khun Pongtasit, the Deputy Chief of Banglamung District who raided the Villa Rouge Bar, the Crazy Dragon Bar, the Red Night Pub and the Sundance Bar. A total of 12 employees under the age of 18 were found and 34 employees failed drug tests. The Deputy District Chief told us that he would impose an initial 30 day closure order on all venues pending further investigations and promised to continue checking bars in the Sunee Plaza area over the coming weeks.

 

http://www.pattayaone.net/news/2009/september/news_08_09_52_3.shtml

[Guest lester1]

I thought that Crazy Dragon was supposed to be whiter than white, or is there more to the news than meets the eye?

[Guest]

I thought that Crazy Dragon was supposed to be whiter than white, or is there more to the news than meets the eye?

 

Well, it doesn't say which of the arrested boys come from which bars. I would be my wager that Crazy did not have underage working for it. They may have had some boys test positive for yaba but you can't control that 100 percent of the time. I guess we'll wait for Mark to tell us the full story. As it is, the story reported is VERY vague of any specific details.

[Guest luvthai]

Not good news with high season coming up. If the BIB keep up the raids it is possible there would be few if any bars to survive in Sunee. They could start ordering bars to close rather then just giving 30 day shut down notices. With the economy as bad as it is in thailand (as it is everywhere) closing bars down and putting more workers out on the street can only cause the crime problems to increase.

[bkkguy]

I thought that Crazy Dragon was supposed to be whiter than white, or is there more to the news than meets the eye?

 

"C"razy Dragon is not to be confused with "K"razy Dragon, the latter being "whiter" than the former

 

bkkguy

[Guest Mark7711]

I am going to post this one time only; they are referring to the Krazy Dragon.

None of our boy tested positive for drugs, two Thai customers with farangs from other bars were taken along with the staff from our bar which is no problem to the Krazy dragon.

However one Thai customer was under the legal age to be in a bar which is 20 that has allowed the police an opening to prosecute if they proceed.

 

 

Mark

[Guest]

One has to read the report & then make an interpretation which does not tar all the 4 bars listed with the same brush.

 

Krazy Dragon would be at the more respectable end of the spectrum.

[Guest Oogleman]

Mark tries harder than anyone in the area to do things right.

 

because one customers id wasn`t checked it really galls me that he has to suffer this crap. mark - you have the support of many - never forget it!

[Guest koeninthailand]

30 days closing it will be very dark in the soi and for the bars from (name of Owner deleted by GT) Vila Rouge and Sundance... after the last recent raid again still having under age boys a final closing would be perfect for the whole Sunnee Plaza area

[Guest fountainhall]

However one Thai customer was under the legal age to be in a bar which is 20 that has allowed the police an opening to prosecute if they proceed

 

I wonder if this will start some owners thinking about closing up the entries to Sunee and having the same ID/passport checks that have been in place in Silom Soi 2 in Bangkok for years. Not so easy since there are many entrances, but not impossible either.

[Gaybutton]

I wonder if this will start some owners thinking about closing up the entries to Sunee

They can think about it, but I doubt they would ever be allowed to close a public thoroughfare. Don't forget the tenement apartments in Sunee Plaza. It would be a little difficult to tell a kid he can't go home. Issuing special IDs to kids living in Sunee would be of no help. You can't deny access to friends and relatives coming over and you can't deny kids access to the street if they're on one side of Sunee Plaza and want to go to the other side.

 

In other words, closing off the streets would not be a viable solution and would be illegal in any case.

 

It's a truly difficult situation for the bar owners. There is already such a lack of customers and stepping up the raids is certainly no help. I'm almost convinced that someone in authority is trying to harass the bars out of business. Find one under-age boy, even if he managed to sneak in as a customer, or find one boy on ya ba, and close the bar. They'll also lose even more customers if people start avoiding Sunee Plaza for fear of being caught up in a raid. While nothing happens to the farang during these raids, it certainly is not a pleasant experience.

 

The bar owners are caught between a rock and a hard place. The current system places the responsibility squarely on their shoulders. It doesn't seem fair to me that the bar owners have to also be de-facto police officers and also have to become responsible for their employees' use of drugs.

 

Meanwhile, bar owners throughout Pattaya are protesting the restricted bar opening hours. I'm surprised they're not including police harassment as part of their protest. These raids are not limited to only Sunee Plaza.

 

I can understand bar owners being held responsible if they have employees under-age, but I have never understood holding them responsible for their employees using drugs on their own time.

[Guest]

However one Thai customer was under the legal age to be in a bar which is 20 that has allowed the police an opening to prosecute if they proceed.

 

What a stupid rule. I know it exists as I had a BF 19 and we were stopped one time and I had to "pay" to have him released. It is like the STUPID American law that you can join military at 18 but not drink till 21.

 

Mark tries harder than anyone in the area to do things right.

 

Agree. The owners here at least try to do the right thing. Not easy with all the rules and regulations and I don't understand how one can possible want to deal with all the PITA stuff that goes on by being a bar owner. I don't feel sorry for Mark as he choose this path and he must have a reason to do this. But, I will never understand how anyone can win in a situation if they are a foreigner owning a bar in Pattaya. Perhaps I just don't understand. Not a criticism of Mark, just a lack of understanding on why someone would put up with the crap day after day for so long.

 

 

30 days closing it will be very dark in the soi and for the bars....after the last recent raid again still having under age boys a final closing would be perfect for the whole Sunnee Plaza area

 

I doubt the bars will be closed for 30 days. But, we will see.

 

I don't think closing the whole of Sunee for the few bad apples is a good idea.

 

I wonder if this will start some owners thinking about closing up the entries to Sunee and having the same ID/passport checks that have been in place in Silom Soi 2 in Bangkok for years. Not so easy since there are many entrances, but not impossible either.

 

It was talked about in the past. It would make the soi a ghost town. If you took away the 18 and 19 year old guys in the bars and on the street, I would estimate the bars would loose a good percentage of their workers.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

It seems the only way to keep out underage customers is to check ID's at the door like is many bars in US.

[Guest koeninthailand]

I doubt the bars will be closed for 30 days. But, we will see.

 

I don't think closing the whole of Sunee for the few bad apples is a good idea.

 

 

 

I have seen that GT has removed the name from the owner from curtain bars in an earlier post from me sory I didnt knew this was not allowed I tought because the name from the owner from one bar is mentioned all the time it was fine But I am not talking about closing the whole Sunnee plaze there are some very fine bars where I like to sit and enjoy life.... but only of those that have been raid now several times in a short time and always with the same problems underaged staf....and then bringing the whole plaza like an underaged playground only visited by child lovers

 

if you also would look in the past after 2-3 raids in a short time the bars were closed afterwards for 30-60 days why you think they changed one time also the entrerance door to an other unit also belong to the bar ... because the order to close is for only one house number so if you have two or tree units conected you can make a new enterance door at an other unit a fault in the thai law

 

koeninthailand

[Guest finally]

It seems the only way to keep out underage customers is to check ID's at the door like is many bars in US.

Last Febr. I was with my Thai friend (24yo) at " Jupiter 2000" in BKK and he had to show his ID. Good idea and nothing to complain about.I never witnessed these controls in any other bar in Soi Twilight. Last year I was at the "Tangmo" in Phuket and a Farang couple dragged their kids ...the youngest about 10yo... into the bar for the show. Incredible, how stupid some people can be, but no problem for the mamasan!!!!

[Gaybutton]

a Farang couple dragged their kids ...the youngest about 10yo... into the bar for the show.

Sounds almost as if that couple is grooming their kids for a future job doing the same thing.

[Guest Astrrro]

Villa Rouge and Playboys (Look Boys Club) merged their staff at Villa Rouge due to lack of business. Perhaps Playboys will reopen if Villa Rouge is closed.

[Guest joseph44]

mark - you have the support of many - never forget it!

 

Is that the same kind of support Kevin Q. got, or is it that same kind of support that the late Mick from Cafe Royal got since he passed away?

 

Well Mark, you're blessed with this kind of support.

[Guest Hedda]

Before we shed too many crocodile tears here for the poor bar owners, we might do well to remember that no one forces anyone to go into the gogo bar business here, a business which is, after all, basically an illegal enterprise pimping prostitution. That doesn't include the booze, drugs, disease and unsavory characters of all ages, in and out of uniform, that always come with the sex trade in most places on the planet.

 

These are some of the same bar owners who never cared, before the law said otherwise, whether their young staff were catching cancer or emphysema from working in smoke-filled bars. These are some of the same bar owners who do nothing to stop young Thai men from risking alcoholism in pushing and sharing drinks every night of the week. These are some of the same bar owners who insist on a 6 or 7 day work week, with no time off for good behavior. These are also some of the owners who choose not to card patrons if there's any doubt about their legal age.

 

Stripped of the frills, they're guys who make a profit renting young men to old men. No questions asked. It's a business that people far from the permissive mentality of places like Patpong or Pattaya would have no hesitation in calling a life of vice and crime.I don't happen to care what those people think; no one forced me to retire here.

 

That doesn't mean, however, I have to start deluding myself about what this scene is all about,sympathizing with bar owners as if they were Albert Schweitzer struggling with Satin or fate to administer to the sick.

[Gaybutton]

Stripped of the frills, they're guys who make a profit renting young men to old men.

I don't view that aspect of it as something negative. I see it as positive. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as they're providing their 'services' within the bounds of the law. And by law, I mean what is actually enforced, not something that's been on the books for lord-knows-how-many years and has yet to ever be enforced.

 

Yes, on a technical level prostitution is illegal in Thailand. On a practical level, it's perfectly legal. That satisfies me and I don't regard myself as less of a person for partaking and I don't see bar owners such as Mark as less of a person for providing.

 

My question to you, Hedda, is do you support your position by refusing to patronize the bars?

[Guest jomtien]

 

 

My question to you, Hedda, is do you support your position by refusing to patronize the bars?

What does patronizing the bars have to do with 'supporting' the position? I agree with Everything Hedda said in that post. I patronize the bars. I don't see any contradiction. I only see recognizing the reality, not living in a fantasy world.

[Gaybutton]

What does patronizing the bars have to do with 'supporting' the position?

Who said anything about a contradiction? I'm curious whether, based on what he writes, he goes to the bars or not. I agree with much of what he said about the way the bar owners treat the staff, but that doesn't stop me from going to the bars. I'm just wondering whether it stops him.

[Guest lester1]

I have always respected those who view the pattaya gay scene with a healthy dose of reality, and Hedda certainly does this with his view that barowners should not be put on a pedestal.

What intrigued me was his examples of how barowners have been guilty of not caring about their employees. Do you think that barowners are going to factor in the need to worry about the inhalation of second hand cigarette smoke. True, in many western countries laws are being put in place to ban smoking indoors, but I dont think its a workable criticism here. Likewise the worry that staff might overindulge on alcohol if customers are going to keep buying them drinks. That one is even more preposterous.

What he could have raised but didnt, is care and attention to sexual diseases and safe sex education, and, of course the use of drugs. The latter two examples are far more dangerous to barworkers than smoke and alcohol.

With regard to whether 'support' for barowners is heartfelt or hollow, I feel that what many people mean is that the business deserves support rather than the owner. Like Hedda, I feel that the average barowner, with some notable exceptions of course, is in the trade for reasons that have little to do with altruism, occupying a high moral ground, respect for the law etc etc. Whilst not caring too much about the weelbeing of the owner, we must all hope that the little universes of excitement and entertainment such as Sunee and BT keep going and keep being there for us. In the current climate, all of us must support the businesses.

[khaolakguy]

 

 

Stripped of the frills, they're guys who make a profit renting young men to old men. No questions asked. It's a business that people far from the permissive mentality of places like Patpong or Pattaya would have no hesitation in calling a life of vice and crime.I don't happen to care what those people think; no one forced me to retire here.

 

 

 

Let me guess, you chose Pattaya to retire in because of the numbers of unspoilt beaches, or because of the number of cheap rentboys?