When is a Lie ENOUGH to move forward?

[Guest lvdkeyes]

But on saying that I agree one should support or pay the level you feel your friend or boyfriend or part-time boyfriend is worth to you.

This strikes me as buying goods rather than supporting a boyfriend. How do you determine what a bf is "worth"? I support my bf, but I do not pay him a salary. If I did there wouldn't be enough money to pay him what he is worth to me.

[Guest]

5k a week!?!?! How on earth much do you normally give this boy?

 

Mistake on my part. What I should have said was that I cut his salary to a point that gives him enough to survive on. I should not have put numbers in the statement as I think that causes many people to get upset and angry. i shall be more careful in the future not to give too much personal detail. Hedda warned me about this years ago and I heeded her advice but from time to time, I have a relapse.

[Gaybutton]

What I should have said was that I cut his salary to a point that gives him enough to survive on.

I'm glad you said that. Generosity is one thing, but completely spoiling someone is quite another. I'm glad to know that you haven't lost your mind . . . well at least not completely . . .

[Guest Oogleman]

One of the easiest things in the world is to give someone else advice. One of the most difficult things is to take it.

Amen - wish i had taken my friend's advice when i first "fell in love" many moons ago in thailand. Lets just say i would have saved a six figure (baht) sum.

 

I was sending a guy 50,000 a month (my idea) -and he loved me!

 

As they say all too often - love is blind! It's the truth.

 

I have a friend in a similar if not so extreme position now and I'm trying to prepare him gently for when the letdown comes. Of course I hope it doesn't come for his sake, but my experience tells me 99% of the time it will. At least he can't say nobody told him or tried to tell him. He's a decent guy and I would hate to see him hurt.

[Guest Oogleman]

oh and Btw GT - 5000 a month and im all yours.

 

GB - dunkin donuts and a milk shake!

[Guest rainwalker]

Dearest Alaan,

 

I'm not going to smack you down although there is much room to do that but I am sorry that you don't want to acknowledge that some of the teachings of Buddhism about trying to separate yourself from wanting things and not getting them (expectations unfulfilled = disappointment) and consequent suffering can contribute to a full and satisfying life and is a valid point to make when talking about anticipating things.

 

It is exactly the point you are trying to make and is a point that I acknowledge can bring you to a still and quiet place. It is also a goal of mine to find a way to just be in that moment and not expect more, essentially renouncing the "western" way of plans and goals and accountability.

 

I have not gotten there yet.

 

I am also sorry that it seems I have disappointed you and your expectations as to how I should present myself on this forum.

 

I find that remarkable because, after reading your note, I would have assumed that you had evolved beyond looking forward to - and attempting to influence - events to meet your standards. Closer to the Buddhist ideal, perhaps, just letting thing be what they are.

 

Unfortunately, from your viewpoint, my predilection of having hopes for the way the people I have met comport themselves in our dealings, be they transitory or of length, is either misguided or inappropriate. It is non-Buddhist as I understand things.

 

I'm also sorry that my pool of knowledge is rather large for your tastes and that using what I know and value to express myself is off of your mark. Unfortunately, being a bright guy and under-appreciated is my burden <g>.

 

And almost finally, I regret that you didn't get the humour of the "I absolutely know that deep down in your heart of hearts" bit.

 

Or could it be that my expectation that people would get it was wrong and that I have disappointed myself.

 

Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

 

Just one more thing: People expectations often turn into demands and I try hard not to let that happen but, until I can hew closer to the Buddhist ideal, I do have expectations and believe unless all of us do, there is no effective way to help each other be our best.

 

Maybe I just believe that people can be better and can do better and that we need plans, goals and accountability to achieve whatever greatness we can and that inevitably we are less/achieve less than we hope.

 

Regards,

 

-R

 

(My last post on this matter because I am disappointed by the response.)

 

[Bob]

I'm also sorry that my pool of knowledge is rather large for your tastes

 

 

Well, something was kinda deep there. I'm not sure if I should yell "hallaluyah" or get my wadders on.

 

Sorry, the devil made me do it (or had expectations that I would).

[Guest HeyGay]

Let me weigh in with some faux pearls of wisdom...

 

 

 

Did you expect that he would never disappoint you? If so, you are a romantic.

 

Sooner or later, everyone disappoints Chok dee, na khrap.

 

If every one disappoint

 

 

If everyone disappoints you, then you are mixing in the wrong company or have your nose up your ass, pretending to be better than the others, but in reality, if you have a good friend, you accept them as you find them, but if they go beyond the pale, then you start to faze them out, all depending on the reason of Corse.

 

As far as over paying a guy his allowance, it is up to you what you pay and for what reason, I have a friend who paid his boys 1000 baht a day, I said you know a Pilot in Thailand does not earn that money.

 

For a boy to earn 7500 baht a week and do nothing for it, its really criminal it has nothing to do with how much you can afford, it has a lot to do with how this guys mind is reacting to such an amount, for what reason would you pay so much, unless you thought he would leave you, if you did not pay it. I

[Guest jtrack33]

I would suggest that the term boy friend is rather confusing in this situation. GT makes payments to help make life more enjoyable to a "good friend" and receives in exchange, a pretty-much exclusive, fun companion who has been molded into a pleasing package with some rough edges...so to speak!

 

This is the part that rather makes the normally-accepted interpretation of 'boy friend' redundant:..."I'll tell them what I want for sex and ask them if it is something they can do. If they say yes, I'll then ask them if they want to go with me or wait for another customer. I do all this through the BF.".

[Guest]

oh and Btw GT - 5000 a month and im all yours.

 

LOL Thanks. Can we discuss this as I am bidding on dunking you and GB? You may have hard feelings if I get to do the deed.

 

 

As far as over paying a guy his allowance, it is up to you what you pay and for what reason, I have a friend who paid his boys 1000 baht a day, I said you know a Pilot in Thailand does not earn that money.

 

I see little wrong with 1k baht a day. I think a fair price for this kind of service industry.

 

The boy says in his mind this guy is an idiot to pay this and does not respect it t all I know I speak to many who get money from a few old guys and think they are the only one. Even though in many cases the guy only wants one guy as in this one I know he still deep down looses some respect.

 

This is where we always disagree. I don't think someone being generous causes a loss of respect if that respect is earned in so many ways. For me to pay the number 1 boy a nice salary that I would spend if I took a friend out to eat at Lux'or with a bottle of wine, is not being spoiling someone. The BF sees my expenses. He knows my bank accounts. He deserves every penny he gets. I have never had any regrets on how much I give to him!

 

 

I would suggest that the term boy friend is rather confusing in this situation. GT makes payments to help make life more enjoyable to a "good friend" and receives in exchange, a pretty-much exclusive, fun companion who has been molded into a pleasing package with some rough edges...so to speak!

 

This is the part that rather makes the normally-accepted interpretation of 'boy friend' redundant:..."I'll tell them what I want for sex and ask them if it is something they can do. If they say yes, I'll then ask them if they want to go with me or wait for another customer. I do all this through the BF.".

 

I think your first paragraph sums things up pretty good. Except for the love part. I know he loves me very much as he tells me every time I buy him a motorbike or phone.

 

The second part, I used the word BF but it could be exchanged with friend or someone who speaks both languages. If a boy in a bar does not understand me, I ask someone who does to interpret everything so it is all 100 percent clear to all parties.

 

I have dealt with hookers for years and I can say that if the majority of things are discussed and agreed upon up front there is always much less disappointment.

[Guest mauRICE]

Oh my. So much angst from farang over their rented lovers. All this could have been avoided if the farang in concern did things the Thai way. And the Thai way is simple: he who pays the piper calls the tune. Thai boys know not to mess with their Thai patrons for they will promptly be shown the door and ostracised, and that there will be ten fresh boys from the village eager to take their place.

[PattayaMale]

"I see little wrong with 1k baht a day. I think a fair price for this kind of service industry."

 

Not all farang have the same income of course. For many, paying 5000Bt a week is alot of money when considering how much their pension is and how much their other living expenses are. Some boys are very happy with that amount.

 

Others are very wealthy and 30,000 a week is not a high amount for them to spend.

 

How much each person pays, in my opinion should be their private business. If I could afford it I would be happy to give my Thai friend a large amount. But since I am not, my Thai friend must get by on 25,000 a week and his Christmas bonus of 100,000 oh and his birthday bonus of 30,000 and his New Years bonus of 40,000. Sure I'd like to give more, but on my pension, no way.

[Guest]

If I could afford it I would be happy to give my Thai friend a large amount. But since I am not, my Thai friend must get by on 25,000 a week and his Christmas bonus of 100,000 oh and his birthday bonus of 30,000 and his New Years bonus of 40,000. Sure I'd like to give more, but on my pension, no way.

 

You are very generous my dear. It is odd though. On each of the occasions you mention, I see my BF's account go up by those numbers. Perhaps we need to meet and compare notes.

 

BTW: I said I see little wrong with 1k a day. I also see little wrong with 2k a day or 3k a day. It is all what one is comfortable with. I have seen clients bring escorts from USA to Thailand and pay them 2,000 plus USD per day for 30 days just to have fun. If I were young and sexy, that is a job I would want too.

[Bob]

How much each person pays, in my opinion should be their private business.

 

As noted before, absolutely agree with that. However, other than university tuition expenses, you and GT are making me feel like an absolute cheap charlie.

[Guest buckeroo2]

I have paid a boy 30,000 in a month I must say, but I pay a basic amount can be up to 2/3000 a week all depends on the boy, then they get 1000 baht every time I have sex. It works for me but I do not give him the money after sex he gets it later that day some time.

Can you explain giving the boy 1000 baht every time you have sex but not immediately after the act but rather later in the day? Does that make it seem less of a commercial transaction? If both of you know that you will give him 1,000 baht for having sex, I do not understand the timing of when you make the remittance. Can you illuminate?

[Guest HeyGay]

Yes I think its a nice motor bike, be better if he could show the one he sold, to top up his 10,578 US dollars a year, I was more interested in the washing and the buildings in the back ground , it must be the Home or Farm he has bought with the 360,000 baht a year, you have been giving him, for the last 5 years as you say, nearly 2 million baht 58.600 US dollars....earned so far plus.... I would admire him much more if he had invested the money wisely when you consider most Thai Boys are lucky if they can make 5000 a month, if you take that as a living wage your boy has 25000 a month to invest in a nice home for his family and his future, I do hope he has not squandered it, I know with your guidance he will have saved most of it for a rainy day.

 

I still find it unrealistic to pay any boy in Thailand minimum of 1000 a day, when you can get any boy, not working for 15000 a month, or a lot less in some cases, Im not talking about Guys in the service industry, I'm talking about normal every day boys, who will swing from the lamp shades, for that money, as I'm sure your boy will be doing every day for a 1000 baht, cleaning the house, keeping the Garden nice, making sure the pool is clean and the washing sorted out, plus his normal interpreter serves and Im sure he gets other perks that goes with this dream job, education fees, a must, Ipods, computers and travel and food free, and accommodation, and of course motorbikes. so he is really getting double that 1000 a day in reality, what for just his fun company amazing. so your really giving him near 4 million a year inreality 117.000 US dollars, even more amazing.

[Guest buckeroo2]

I'm glad you said that. Generosity is one thing, but completely spoiling someone is quite another. I'm glad to know that you haven't lost your mind . . . well at least not completely . . .

All GT said was that he should not have said he was deducting 5,000 baht a week - that he should not have given the amount but rather just leave the actual amount out of his post. I read it to mean that while he is indeed deducting 5,000 baht from his BF's weekly allowance, he wishes he had not been so specific and will not be in future posts -so he may still qualify for having "lost his mind".

[Guest]

All GT said was that he should not have said he was deducting 5,000 baht a week - that he should not have given the amount but rather just leave the actual amount out of his post. I read it to mean that while he is indeed deducting 5,000 baht from his BF's weekly allowance, he wishes he had not been so specific and will not be in future posts -so he may still qualify for having "lost his mind".

 

Thank you buckerroo2 for clearing that up. Now, I can sleep better tonight. or not.

[Guest HeyGay]

Thank you buckerroo2 for clearing that up. Now, I can sleep better tonight. or not.

 

 

Your right to not mention your paying these amazing amounts to one boy, when you think you can buy a nice house for these kinds of pay outs over 5 years, just for the company of this guy, who is now showing signs of disrespect. its a shame it has got to this before you can part as friends.

http://www.pattaya-p...ang=&ref=HS2601

[Guest fountainhall]

I do get a bit pissed off at times in discussions about how much a boy is worth over either the short or long term. I fully accept the argument of some who worry that "over-paying" - usually by transient visitors - makes life more difficult for those who live here, often on fairly basic pensions. I believe that in Thailand, 'tips' for sex are in lieu of a fee, which is against the law (at least as I understand it). You could therefore also argue that the 'fee' should be standardised. But, as GT mentioned in one of is posts, in most countries what you pay for escort or other services varies massively. So why not in Thailand?

 

We're all different and life is never fair. If someone is rich and has a good time with a boy, what on earth is wrong with giving him a large tip, a bike, apartment or whatever? After all, this is standard in the entertainment industry here with young performers of both sexes - often barely out of their teens - being given all sorts of goodies by company bosses. Is this purely in return for a signature on a contract? (Rhetorical question!)

[dapitt]

However, other than university tuition expenses, you and GT are making me feel like an absolute cheap charlie.

I'm with you Bob!

Same same me!

[Guest]

I'm with you Bob!

Same same me!

 

Not really my intent. I didn't say how much I paid the BF. I just didn't deny anyone's speculations either. Other than my stupidity over a few motorbikes, I doubt he gets much more than any other boy who has a Falang from NYC.

[Guest HeyGay]

The reason I now get upset about paying a boy in what ever country, more than he would normally need for that country to live on, its because I have spoilt my Boy Special over 8 years now and as he is getting older he is still my boy, but he has moved on and I have moved on also, but we are still like father and son, but he is not getting the hand outs he was having, what has happened now, he is not living the High life, where money was NO PROBLEM, he was caught in a Vacuum of trying to live something like he use to, but never could, so he wanted a Business to try to start to get an Income, how did he do it, of course selling Drugs and was very successful at it, unbeknownst to me.

 

Now I am flying monthly up county visiting him, The only one wining is Asia Air, he is in a very bad way In prison, and I blame my self, to see him crying there, breaks my heart, all because I gave him money as you would in the UK instead of what they earn or could in Thailand and not giving him the ammunition to work and make a good living, yes I now think its criminal, to spoil them and ruin them for life.

 

You must not pay a boy more then a normal living wage max 400 a day but as I said if you want to give a bonus for some good deed well that is different and because psychologically I think it makes him look like a tart if you give it after your bit of fun I give it later as if I just wanted him to have the odd good night out more all in my mind not his.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

This bears out what I have said many times; if something is given on a regular basis it comes to be expected and not appreciated. I have told this story before, I am sure, but I will tell it again.

When I was working and was a supervisor I had weekly team meetings. I brought bagels, schmears and OJ every week for the meeting. (Out of my pocket) One meeting a woman came in and saw what I had brought and said, "What, bagels again?"

[Bob]

One meeting a woman came in and saw what I had brought and said, "What, bagels again?"

 

You've had a rough life!