When is a Lie ENOUGH to move forward?

[TotallyOz]

One thing I can say about the Boyfriend I have been with for 5 years is that he never lied to me. He is always honest. He always tells the truth no matter how hard it is.

 

UNTIL NOW

 

I have caught him in a lie. Not a big one and not one that I actually care a great deal about but one that may be the ruin of our relationship.

 

I had a motorcycle that I gave to him to keep for me in January. He said he would take care of it and it would be ready for me when I needed it. I came back a few months back and have been asking about it and he keeps saying he would go and get it. Last week, I gave him the time to do that and he returned without it. I then started docking his weekly allowance 2k baht per week for 30 weeks till I get a new one or until he brings in the old one.

 

When he noticed this deduction he asked why and I carefully explained it to him. As I have bought him at least 4-5 bikes over the years and ALL ended up being modified to be racers, I was promised that this one would not end up in the same fate. What I really thought had happened is that he gave it to his family and didn't know how to get it back. I told him to explain to the family why he was going home weekly with 2k less than normal and that if they wanted that to increase to return the bike in the same condition as when I left.

 

It was then I learned the truth. He had it modified to do street racing as it was a nice power bike. He can get it back but it is now an illegal bike to ride and I want no part of it.

 

He already understands that I will take 2k a week from him till I get a new bike. I do this not as need the money to live on but more to set an example that you can't just do something like this without consequences.

 

He is OK with this and totally agrees with the decision. The question now is "can I ever trust him again?" My honest boy whom I have known for 5 years and has a 6 year old son and a family that depends on him has now lied to me and my trust for him has diminished. I do not yet know the course I will take. I know the advice I would give to others. I know the advice I have given so many. But, in the end it is a very hard call for me. Any other suggestions?

[Guest Astrrro]

Any other suggestions?

 

Stay with him if you otherwise enjoy his company but since the trust level has diminished be more careful about a variety of things.

 

On another note, maybe he thinks it's OK as this seems to have happened in the past. He might think it was more of a gift and it was OK to modify or give away.

[Guest taylorsquare]

Dont take this the wrong way......but.......how can he be a real boyfriend if he has a wife and son and i presume by your post,lives with them.

 

To me a boyfriend is a boyfriend,maybe a different meaning to you.

 

Yes because he is effectively a employee of yours,i would stll trust him ,in the prefessional sense.

Whether i would trust him personally ,as a BF,I doubt it,but as a employee then give him a warning,otherwise fire him.....and find another .

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Two things come to mind:

 

If you gave him 4-5 bikes and he modified all of them, What on earth made you think he would do any different with this one??? I mean really??

 

Also, if you are docking 2000 a WEEK, and he still gets an allowance, I would say that you have already spoiled him.

 

I guess the "lying" is bad, but this isn't in an area of trust...and you should have known better!!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

From my experience, the first lie you catch someone telling is probably not the first lie they told you and definitely will not be the last.

[firecat69]

In the great scheme of things I don't see this lie as that important. First in your heart you knew what would happen to the bike when you gave it to him. What's that saying about not knowing history, you are doomed to make the same mistakes. There were completely safe people you could have given the bike

 

Also I find it doubtful that in a 6 year relationship,you have not lied to him. Let's remember omission can be lying also.

 

He had a bike and he refitted it because it was there and you were not. Then when he realized that you were back he knew someday you might ask for the bike and was scared and embarassed about what he did. How to tell you was not an option. Too much risk.

 

All relationships have lies. No matter how close people are they have secrets or things they don't tell for fear of hurting their partner.

 

If the lying becomes endemic then there is a problem.

[Guest Hedda]

I wonder if lying is really the issue here. Let's face it, most everyone tells little white lies to their partners, lovers, parents and friends. The real issue is whether the lies are symptomatic of a lack of affection or respect for the person who's been receiving those little deceptions.

 

I suspect that the real issue troubling you is not whether he lied. Deeper down, what's bothering you is the gnawing suspicion that he went ahead and disregarded your wishes not to modify that bike because he's so selfish or spoiled that he doesn't much give a hoot about you or your feelings.

 

No one likes to feel like they are being taken advantage of, which is always a sensitive issue in many farang-Thai relationships. No one wants to think they're simply "being used" by an ungrateful object of their affection.

 

I suspect from your reaction to this little white lie that you may be feeling that way right now. I don't envy you.It's not a pleasant feeling. Whether it's enough to "call it a relationship" is something that only you can answer.

[Gaybutton]

I agree completely with lvdkeyes. So do you. You've told me that yourself on several occasions . . . once they start lying, it's not going to stop. I've found that out the hard way too.

 

The most difficult things I have had to do in my life was letting my boyfriends go once the reality of the situation finally hit me. A "little white lie" is one thing, but this boy flat out lied and tried his damnedest to mislead you. I believe lvdkeyes is absolutely right, that not only will it continue, but it's virtually a sure thing that quite a bit has already been going on behind your back for a long time.

 

Few emotions are as painful as having to give up someone you care about. Obviously you care about him very much, but as someone not emotionally involved and looking at it from outside, my opinion is giving him up is the only thing to do. You have spent a fortune on him and he still lies to you to get what he wants, even when he knows it's totally against your wishes. He chose that for himself. Now he has to pay the consequences of it.

 

If you have the money to do it with, I would urge you to give him a reasonable 'severance,' send him on his way, and get on with your life. It will be terribly painful to do that, but I know you well enough to know what a terrific person you truly are. You will find someone else and it won't take long for the emotions you feel for this boy be transferred to the next one.

 

So many of us have been through this, GT. You know me well enough to know I'm no more immune to it than you are, but there comes a time when you have to choose reality over emotions. It will take a while, but you will get over it. I hope you make the right decision.

[PattayaMale]

This is difficult to answer because you already told him what the penalty was and it seems that you feel it is important to be honest to him. In a sense you told him you were going to continue an allowance for 30 more months, just a bit reduced. I also imagine that since you are very generous, he knows you probably don't mean it, since 30 months is a long time to stay angry.

 

Since you have the most life experiences and hold the purse, what really is the outcome you want for the future? If it is that he never lie to you again, good luck. If it is as Hedda suggests, he does not respect you as much as you want him to, how can you change that...very difficult.

 

If I was in your position, I think I would do the following. Let him know that you are disappointed that he does not respect your wishes. Tell him this bothers you so much you have reconsidered how the bike will be paid for. Next eliminate his allowance entirely until the money for a brand new bike has been recovered. I am sure he has other assets he can sell to scratch out enough for his family to get by. (Buy him meals when he is with you, but NO gifts, cigarettes, etc.)Some call it tough love. But it may be harder on you than it is on him. But IF you can do it, he may see you in a better light. He may understand that you are serious person with feelings and will not tolerate disrespect.

 

Don't be mean about it. But try to teach him what principles are.

 

If that doesn't work.....go back to drinking.......since the world will certainly end shortly!

[Guest HeyGay]

The truth of this matter is not as you think, if you put yourself in his place he is a straight guy, living your life. may be even though you are very good to him, to good to him in fact, from what you say, he has become bored with being a Prince with a paradise life and is getting Mature and wants to be a man in his own right, don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming you, I'm blaming his hormones, now he is 24 his body wants him to go and make more babies, be his own man, with his own friends, chat to his own friends with beer at night, have his wife/girlfriend be his little Chattel and go get his beer and cook his diner and be there for him.

 

This is not a lie to him, its just he sees how you spend money or waist it, as he thinks, and his sub conscious, says, well you wont miss it, so he slowly drifted into this situation, then you ask for it back, he thought you would not bother or hoped and he has given you his answer.

 

Its normal for a Thai boy, don't think as you would a western boy, he is lying, No! he just does not want to loose face, you have done the right thing by fining him and may be you have been alone with him to much yourself and now thinking you need a fresh approach to your companion and that's all he sees it as, nothing more your like his employer, but he has respect for you, as he would a good uncle or father figure, but as he is straight you can not expect him to be any more than respectful to you and he does not steal from you, so you have a guy in a million, so as long as you know he needs to live his own life, but can only do that if he has a good well paid job.

 

I have seen this many times with farangs spoiling Boys with much more money, then they could ever earn themself and not giving them in time, a way of making this sort of money, if you decided to move on, because he is slowly turning into a slightly resentful Alpha Male and your sensing it, and it is eating into him if he lieaves you he will be back where he met you its like a dripping tap to him torture, and all because you have been good to him to good.

 

How do I know, I have done that been there, ashamed to say, a few times.

[KhorTose]

I wonder if lying is really the issue here. Let's face it, most everyone tells little white lies to their partners, lovers, parents and friends. The real issue is whether the lies are symptomatic of a lack of affection or respect for the person who's been receiving those little deceptions.

 

I think Hedda has hit the proverbial nail on the head. Not only that, but this public posting tells me that you already know the answer to your dilemma at some level. I am not sure you really want advice here, or confirmation of what you may already suspect.

[Guest HeyGay]

Even though for some reason my post came out twice, I have now had a chance to read all the other posts, and we seem to have come to the same conclusion, you know the answer, its just that you dont want to beleive it, as if you knew you had a horrid illness, but had to ask the doctor if its true.

[Guest thaiworthy]

Everyone has a good answer. Gaybutton's advice is the best, I think. It is easy to give advice to others when you are not the subject of the problem. But you are thinking with your dick and not your brain. Quite possibly, this guy turns you on so much you are willing to accept any and all circumstances that go with it, i.e., the lying and his straight relationship. In my book, the latter is a lie too. This does just sound like an "arrangement" of sorts and not a nurturing relationship. I don't know why else you would be willing to accept him on those terms if it weren't for the fact that maybe he makes your heart zing.

 

Get unzunk. It's a waste of time. There are too many good Thai men out there without all this heterosexual baggage. The motorbike is just a symptom of the problem. The real problem is his heterosexuality. Is this really what you want? Do you know what you want?

 

I'm sorry if this is sounding harsh. I do not mean to condemn you if it sounds like it. It just seems like you are trying to fool yourself with cutbacks to his allowance, etc. You have accepted him into your life on HIS terms, and he is taking it for all its worth.

 

He is not lying to you. You are lying to yourself.

[Guest taylorsquare]

The sad fact is ,you cant buy love.

Really I doubt he loves you.

Maybe that doesnt matter to you,but you obviously need someone to "love".

 

And I am not being nasty to you when i say this,but its about time you ended the relationship that really is a professional one anyway.

 

In reality he wont be there in the future with you anyway,think what i just said.

Its now time in your life i think to move on.

 

When someone like yourself who is described as a good person really needs to be used and unappreciated then you are letting your values down.

You have morals,you are good hearted,really dont you think you can find a real lover,someone you can share deep things with,someone who really loves you and not what you can give them.

I agree with the others,its time now to finish it.

Its going to a stage where he s laughing at you behind your back.

You dont need to be hurt more in the future.

 

 

I dont mean you when i say this but I think many farangs throw money to buy love ,buy a relationship,but really its not real love is it.

If it makes someone happy and get thru life happier then its ok to buy someone to pretend to be a boyfriend.

Im sure there would be plenty of older farangs whose pension has gone right down who would be my BF for 10k a month.

[Guest xiandarkthorne]

I beg to differ from everyone else. Sorry if I offend you, GT, though I really hope you won't take my post the wrong way because the logic I am going to apply is quite different from what anyone else has been saying here.

 

For starters, what would your reaction be if I gave you a bike and told you not to ride it over 30km/h at any time?

 

And then, there's also the fact that if you gave the bikes to him as gifts, then they belong to him, don't they? And what business of yours is it, if he modifies them?

 

If the bikes were given as some sort of payment for affection, then they belong to him. And the same reasoning applies.

 

On the other hand, if you expect to retain some control over the fate of the bikes, then they couldn't really have been gifts, could they? And if the bikes weren't gifts, what were they, really?

 

I have had some experience with various forms of payment for the pretence of affection, too, and I tell you that the hardest thing I ever had to do was to see things for what they were and then tell myself to stop.

 

This is bitter medicine, I know, but I hope it helps anyway.

 

Xian.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Sorry Xian, but you are way off the mark. GT's original posting regarding this was:

 

"I had a motorcycle that I gave to him to keep for me in January. He said he would take care of it and it would be ready for me when I needed it."

 

This clearly was not a gift to buy affection or even a gift at all.

[Gaybutton]

The sad fact is ,you cant buy love.

bullSHIT, you can't! You can buy mine, and it's for sale rather cheaply . . .

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I read that on a hong nam wall, "For a mediocre time call GB. CHEAP"

[Gaybutton]

I read that on a hong nam wall, "For a mediocre time call GB. CHEAP"

You misread it. It said "for a totally disappointing, miserable time . . ." VERY CHEAP!

 

I haven't gotten many calls, so I had to fire my secretary. I attribute the lack of calls to the low season and poor exchange rates . . .

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Maybe a different hong nam.

[PattayaMale]

Can't bi-sexuals enjoy and love both men and women? Is it not possible to love more than one person at a time? Why end a 6 year relationship over something that may be a true misunderstanding?

 

I think everything can be worked out. I again suggest some type of consequence, but ending a relationship seems way over the top.

[Gaybutton]

Why end a 6 year relationship over something that may be a true misunderstanding?

It doesn't sound like a misunderstanding to me. Also, I would not assume this is the first time this boy has lied or, at best, misunderstood. Based on GT's story, this boy knew exactly what he was doing and if GT sticks with him, then to my mind that's like having a strong premonition, but still boarding the Titanic.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

It's more than a premonition. It is as if you know it has sunk several times before and you still board.

[Guest HeyGay]

Well it looks like the jury is out just waiting for the last word from the Victim, Mr. GT

 

I think if you look on him as a very good friend and companion, as it would seem he is, after reading into your various mentions of him on here, then this mista-mina is of no consequence in your friendship, if he had gone to your wallet or conned you out of some money or stole some luxury Item, then of course you would have to ask him to go, but as things are now, take it as we all have, he is your friend and working for you, because I can tell you, that's how he sees it. Its just that he does not want to find himself back on the streets, with out a job or with minimal education to earn big money as i ahve said before, ever have a big pay day again unless he finds another Ji Dee Punter who asked for very little and gives a lot.

 

As far as Bi-sexual's falling in love with a man well I specialize in Bi-sexual's and I dont mean the type that work in the bars of Thailand, who are like a cuckoo who lay their eggs in an other birds nest and the Baby Cuckoo mimic's being their baby but in reality it is sucking the host dry then flies off and does the same to another host. Between 60 to 80% of boys working in Bars are pretending to be Bi-sexual all according to the time of year. just for the money so its just a job to them and they have no feelings of love for their customers apart from some respect a few customers as a father good they never had.

 

But real Bi-sexual's you can find where I get then in the wash rooms and there is so many in thailand because there is no stigma and hang ups about going with a member of the same sex, and a Bi-sexual goes hunting out a women or a man, and does not ask for money, and for some most amazing reason love a farang unless they are Rice Queens Bi, who only like thais, I ask them all the time why they have a girlfriend and a boy friend they said they have twice the fun and love both and the do.

 

But dont get me wrong also the Str8 guys working in the sex trade get to like gay sex also but that still does not make them gay, they will only love and look for a women if they have the money never a man.

 

We are all waiting for GT now to see if these are the answers he was expecting even if it was in his sub-conscious mind.

[Guest]

I honestly don't know what I will do or what to think. I needed the weekend to chill and try to understand. The motorbike was in his name (as was many before) but with the understanding that it was for my use as long as I go back and forth. I put in his name as I trusted him to take care of it for me. I made that mistake before and the other motorcycle turned out to be shit when I got it back as his family destroyed it by putting over 40k kilometers on it when I was away. I bought the new one to have at least one bike that was totally mine to ride. But, I never want it in my name in case I don't return and I want him to have it and sell it or whatever. But, he was getting a salary when I was away. A good one I might add. He had no need to sell it. Instead, he modified it for a racing bike and he raced it. When I returned I kept getting the story he would go and get it and bring it to me. But, after countless times I finally gave in and said, "Ok, we will go together today or you can just pay me for it." He said he would pay me for it. I knew what had happened at that point.

 

He said it is modified. I say he sold it. Either case, it was a deception and one that was not needed. He had 2 other bikes I had given to him that same year. He did not need another one. I thought he would hold it for me. He has done so in the past but just let his family wear it out. We went into great detail about this not happening again.

 

He is not gay. It is business. I have feelings for him and I adore him. I know he feels the same. We are not "in love" but we care for each other a great deal. I guess this was a test of that and he failed. Now, I have to determine the best way to proceed. Some good suggestions have been given to me. My first reaction is to do as GayButton says and say goodbye (with a severance package). Fly to Brazil or Mexico or Paris and take a holiday. My other reaction is to make him pay the entire amount up front before any other money is given. I think that option may push him out the door but a good risk to take to see where he does stand. I do know he is with me as I provide for him. I know many married couples in the same relationship. They just don't pick them up on the street, they meet them in church, social gatherings, etc. But, in the end it is all the same. The one who has the most money will often have someone stay because the benefits far outweigh the other options. For me, I find someone I find sexy and adorable and could care less about money. He uses me no more than I do him. It is mutually beneficial to both of us. No one is taking advantage. We talk about the reason we are together and we both know why and understand. Neither of us are naive or stupid.

 

The question now becomes do I take the advice I have given so many others over the years or do I give another second chance? The jury is still out.