Guest tdperhs Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Shouldn't true lady boys - those who have undergone at least some genderic modification - be referred to in the plural? Or at least a plural pronoun with a singular verb form or a singular pronoun with a plural verb form if they are, they is, he is, she is, he are, she are halfway through the procedure? "What are your thoughts, Hobson?" Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 referred to in the plural? My first thought is "huh"? I'm not following your logic. I don't understand what you mean. For example, if a lady-boy has been taking hormones, or whatever it is they do for breast enlargement, or has had breast implant surgery, what's the plural part? If you are correct, what would the word be? "Look, there goes a lady-boys." "Look, there goes a ladies-boy." "Look, there goes a ladies-boys." Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 Lady and She works fine for me. If they are dressed like a lady, I always address them as "She" or "her". Quote
Guest lester1 Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 When I first read Tdpervs posting I thought it was the sort of tragic little offering you get when medication, alcohol, and too much time on your hands combine to bad effect. Then I thought he was having a bet with himself as to how many losers he could sucker into the thread ( 4 and counting). My offering is that you can only refer to them in the plural if they are in a bunch, perhaps just about to mug you on beach road or somewhere similar. Of course, there will be problems over the pronoun which is perhaps what he meant; he or she doesnt quite cut the mustard. Mean spirited people might use 'it'. Generally speaking, the matter is complicated by broad spectrum use of 'ladyboy', such as a description of Christiano Ronaldo diving after a tackle, or your best mate ordering a Mai Tai to drink whilst watching the All Blacks on TV. Is it best to abandon LadyBoy altogether and use Katoey. This will then enable perv to open up another thread on how it is pronounced, rather like the farang controversy. I am not quite sure what else there is to say, but I can understand some help is needed from the ladyboy fraternity themselves as to exactly what bits they have left, what state it is in, and whether they are comfortable doing anything with it. Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I thought he was having a bet with himself as to how many losers he could sucker into the thread Interesting you would come up with that kind of comment considering you're participating in this thread too. I never refer to the lady-boys as "she." I've never been comfortable with that. I always refer to people by the gender they were at birth, although I've never figured out how I would refer to a hermaphrodite. Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 I never refer to the lady-boys as "she." I've never been comfortable with that. I always refer to people by the gender they were at birth, although I've never figured out how I would refer to a hermaphrodite. I am the opposite. Having a few exes who were adrogenous and dressed in Drag often, they always referred to themselves as "she" when they were dressed. I thought it as a sign of respect. The girls in Thailand who do this are not in drag. They have made a lifestyle change and they have decided they prefer to live as a lady. I think it is only respectable to call them that. IMHO PS I just responded to this initial thread cause his avatar was so cute. Quote
Rogie Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 "What are your thoughts, Hobson?" Henry Ford's offer of the Model-T Ford in 'any colour you like, so long as it's black' is an example of Hobson's choice. In other words like it or lump it. The original poster is suggesting ways to give ladyboys a different voice In cockney rhyming slang a hobson's = voice Quote
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 It's obviously courteous to address someone using the gender that they appear to be. Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 It seems ridiculous to refer to a person who is dressed in women's clothing and makeup as "he". I am sure she would be offended by it. Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 It's obviously courteous to address someone using the gender that they appear to be. I agree, and I would do so when addressing someone directly, out of courtesy. It is a different matter when simply referring to someone. I know most people feel differently from the way I feel about it, but no matter how someone is dressed or has redone his body, if he was born male, to me it's "he" and "him". I'm simply not comfortable referring to someone I know is biologically male as "she". Most of the time when I'm speaking directly to someone, it's "you". I can't think of many instances when it would be anything else. Even in Thai, there isn't much gender associated with it when speaking directly to someone. Even the formal "khun" is a word used for both males and females. Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted August 12, 2009 Posted August 12, 2009 What if you were introducing a lady boy dressed as a woman? Would you say, "This is "Alice", He is my old friend."? Or would you just find a way to avoid using the feminine pronoun? Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 would you just find a way to avoid using the feminine pronoun? That's a very good question. Most likely I would try to avoid the pronoun at all. I would probably try to say, "This is 'Alice', my old friend." However, under circumstances like that, knowing that the lady-boy would most likely wish to be referred to in the feminine, if I couldn't come up with a different way to say it, out of courtesy I think I would disregard my own discomfort and use the feminine. Quote
Guest tdperhs Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Either my question was too vaguely stated or, as often happens, this thread has been taken over by someone who did not understand it. I was not concerned so much with gender as with number. Is there more than one person inside a lady boy? Are all ladyboys monosexual, i.e. bottoms? Surely, they must consider that the traditional role of the female is to be a taker, not a giver; or, do some continue to vary between the two genders - so long as they retain the appropriate equipment. And, if it is the latter, should we address them in the plural, which would be more convenient because then gender identifying pronouns do not apply? The same question applies to the royals. The Queen of England addresses herself as "we." Is it more proper for one to refer to her in the third person as "they?" Quote
Bob Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 I don't understand ladyboys but I'd think it would be rather rude to address them in any plural fashion. Just as rude to address a bisexual in the plural. They're not hung up about their sexuality and I see no reason anybody else ought to be. We don't (or, in my opinion) shouldn't address anybody by their sexuality or gender. Should I address or call Brad Pitt as "Mr. Straight Fucker" or "Mr. Dick With Two Balls" or some other terms so I'm accurately describing his sexuality or gender? Address them politely and you'll get along fine; better yet, call them by their name. Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Is there more than one person inside a lady boy? Are all ladyboys monosexual, i.e. bottoms? Is it more proper for one to refer to her in the third person as "they?" I think in some respects many people have, to varying degrees, more than one person inside. Lady-boys are obviously much more inclined to physically express it. But I don't see any reason to refer to a lady-boy in the plural. Also, I know many lady-boys who are tops. Just as rude to address a bisexual in the plural. "I feel so sorry for bisexuals. What a terrible curse that must be. What a way to have to live your life. Can you imagine wanting to fuck everyone you meet?" - George Carlin Quote
Guest Astrrro Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 Lady and She works fine for me. If they are dressed like a lady, I always address them as "She" or "her". Same here and that's how my girlfriend likes to be and is addressed. I've never heard anyone refer to her as he even at the airport as her plane tickets do say Mr. On straight forums ladyboys are often referred to as he and that's highly offensive. On gay forums I tend to call her the gender neutral teerak just to avoid confusion. Quote
Guest Astrrro Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 "I feel so sorry for bisexuals. What a terrible curse that must be. What a way to have to live your life. Can you imagine wanting to fuck everyone you meet?" - George Carlin "The good thing about being bisexual is that it doubles your chance of a date on a Saturday night."--Woody Allen Quote
Guest lester1 Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 tdpervs latest attempt at 'clarification' doesnt really help, mainly because he refuses to give an example of what he means. He starts by suggesting that a ladyboy, because he has male and female parts to his/her character, can be considered as two people in one. Following this logic, does this mean that you have to say something like 'do both of you want to come home with me tonight?'. Apart from opening up the whole schizophrenia debate, it also suggests that you havent a clue what you are doing either. tdp suggests that they could also be referred to as 'they', as in , I assume something like, when discussing a shopping trip with a farang friend 'we went shopping but they couldnt decide what to buy. This sounds a bit sarcastic and demeaning as a way of discussing the ladyboy. Its just occured to me that as the Thai language tends to leave out pronouns and plurals in everyday conversation then the whole debate is academic. Far far more interesting is what it is that attracts the farang to engage in a relationship with a ladyboy. I am not being for one second judgemental on this. The statute of limitations is off on this story now but a while ago I fell for a slightly effiminate young man in a well known plaza bar. After a week of quite spectacular fun and games, a treat was organised to go and see the Alcazar show.I drove the car to his house to pick him up, and he had transformed himself into the whole enchillada. I mean wig, jewellry, dress, high heeels, hand bag. We still went, although I felt uncomfortable. We ended up having a great time at the show. Before it started he dumped the handbag with me and set off to the washrooms, and I didnt have the nerve to spot which one. (too busy hiding the handbag). At the end, where it is the custom for the 'girls' of the show to wait outside to have their pics taken with the audience he caused quite a stir. All the cast came over and chatted with him and made a big fuss of me as well, although I was still a bit shellshocked. In all honesty, his new self was completely unattractive to me sexually. Fortunately, in the way of relationships in Pattaya, it all faded out without loss of face as I went back home and he moved up country. So the debate is 'is it he or she', and what is it about ladyboys that attracts farangs of gay persuasion? Quote
Guest Posted August 13, 2009 Posted August 13, 2009 So the debate is 'is it he or she', and what is it about ladyboys that attracts farangs of gay persuasion? Well, I love the perfect transformation. A ladyboy that is not even noticed as a guy is very sexy to me. That being said, I have never been in a relationship with a ladyboy. I have only had short-times but I have thoroughly enjoyed them. Quote
Guest Astrrro Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 Well, I love the perfect transformation. A ladyboy that is not even noticed as a guy is very sexy to me. Think Nicky fits that bill. Quote
Bob Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 On occasion - one good example would be the Loy Krathong parade in Chiangmai - I'll engage in some friendly contest with Thai friends as to who is or isn't a ladyboy. I can guess fairly easily if I can see the typical male shoulders or adam's apple but, when those features aren't fairly pronounced, I'm wrong at least half of the time - and Thai friends (who seem to always know 100%) just shake their heads at this "ting tong" falang for not knowing the "obvious." I attended the performances at Simon Caberet in Chiangmai a couple of times before it closed and some of those performers were absolutely stunning. On one occasion, our seats were right at the end of the runway and the performers ended up right above and maybe three feet in front of us - and, to this day, I'm dumbfounded as to how many of them were able to totally hide their equipment in the skimpy bikini briefs (and, yea, I was looking....). While I don't get (understand) ladyboys, there are some out there that are as gorgeous as any ladies anywhere (but perhaps I'm biased because they have the Thai features). Quote
Gaybutton Posted August 14, 2009 Posted August 14, 2009 'm dumbfounded as to how many of them were able to totally hide their equipment in the skimpy bikini briefs I know how they do it. I've seen them do it. They push their "equipment" down and back as far as they can before putting on their briefs. I don't know how on earth they can be comfortable that way, but that's what they do. Quote
KhorTose Posted August 15, 2009 Posted August 15, 2009 I know how they do it. I've seen them do it. They push their "equipment" down and back as far as they can before putting on their briefs. I don't know how on earth they can be comfortable that way, but that's what they do. Gb, I see the lock but it lets me post. Definitely some kind of glitch. Quote
