Members stevenkesslar Posted March 9 Author Members Posted March 9 7 hours ago, Moses said: Ukrainian human reserves are almost melted already, Ukraine, even with support of the West, has as much as 2 years max to resist. Then soldiers will run out. I want to address that alone, and make it personal. You do realize you are advocating genocide, @Moses, right? This is sick, @Moses. You are advocating genocide. It won't work, of course. More important, it is sick. And wrong. You do realize that, don't you? This is exactly why I don't view Russians as victims of Putin. At the very least, you are being willfully ignorant and just going along for the ride. You confirm it in every post. But especially this one. You don't see genocide. You don't hear genocide. You don't speak genocide. Neither does Vlad. And yet, genocide exists. And you are condoning it. In writing above. You're saying let's just kill as many Ukrainians as it takes. Which is, as you correctly point out, what Bibi Netanyahu is doing right now in Gaza. And the numbers of civilians are roughly the same. Your genocidal sadist has killed far more Ukrainian men who are soldiers than Bibi has killed Hamas. But you've probably killed roughly the same number of innocent women and children. Tens of thousands and counting. I think "genocide" is the right word for it. Vlad is doing it in Ukraine. Bibi is doing it in Gaza. They are both genocidal sadists who are leading us toward war and away from peace. And have been as long as they are in power. So now I'll say this as American, about not advocating genocide. Israel is a huge moral and political mess. As a nation, it is on its way to being a hated pariah. including by my party, the Democratic Party. Young Americans of every race will increasingly say Israelis are those White people who like apartheid, and like genocide. They are saying it now. It saddens me. But I understand it. Israel was different when I was their age. Maybe this will actually be why Biden loses Michigan, and the election. But everyone knows it's complicated. Hamas did attack innocent Israelis and burn Jewish babies alive. Israel, like Russia and Ukraine, has the right to defend itself from from the most brutal and sadistic attack. Electing Trump won't be good news for Palestinians. It will be good news for Bibi The Butcher. Like I said, it is a huge moral and political mess. But one thing most Americans agree on is that genocide is not the answer. This is why genocide promoters like you, @Moses, have to be willfully ignorant. Hamas actually is Hitler. They are advocating the genocide of an entire nation and people. I imagine many Russians have to believe Ukraine is a Nazi nation run by a democratically elected Jew. It makes no fucking sense. It would be comic, if it were not tragic. It is ironic that a Jewish comedian is now the leader of the tragic nation that has to deal with Russia's genocidal monster. But there is no question who started this war, and why. Vlad started the war. Ukraine did not burn Russian babies alive. Vlad is a genocidal sadist. He said, in writing, that Ukraine is mine. And I will take it by force, if needed. No matter how many men, women, and children I need to kill. That's genocide. You just said, in writing, you support it. We'll just kill as many Ukrainians as it takes. That is sick. I know about this personally. There were plenty of Americans who wanted to go as far as nuking Iraq. Somehow, in their sick minds, they could even argue that for the sake of helping Iraq we have to nuke Iraqi men, women, and children. It's really for their own good. It's just sick. But I assure you I had conversations with those Americans, and told them it was sick. So I don't feel at all like a hypocrite telling you that you are sick. There's a good reason the US did not nuke Iraq. It would have made America a pariah. And it would not have worked. One of my Republican friends at the same said that he supported going to war in Iraq, but not what W. was going to do. I asked him what he meant. He said W. would put US boots on the ground, and it would eventually fail. He was right. I said what do you think we should do instead? He said, "Bomb the fuck out of Iraq." I asked, "What if we bomb the fuck out of Iraq, and something even worse rises from the ashes?" He said, "That's easy. We bomb the fuck out of Iraq again." There's a word for this. GENOCIDE. I was also right, by the way. What rose out of the ashes of the US military quagmire in Iraq was ISIS. Which was worse. I repeat that conversation a lot. Because my Republican friend and I, in a five minute conversation, accurately predicted over a decade of tragedy and genocide. The US was the midwife of ISIS in Iraq. It was a disaster for the US, and still is. It also helped birth Trump's isolationism. I'll give that much to Trump. He wants to ignore the rest of the world, and be selfish. Which is better than invading and bombing the world. Now Russia is having its global genocide moment. The happy news, to me, is that Russia's genocide is not birthing a new ISIS. Although, it kind of is. If every Ukrainian could slit the throat of every man, woman, and child in Russia, and get away with it, they probably would. That is what genocide does to people. They hate you. Every poll says Ukrainians are more united than ever in wanting to beat Russia. So is every Pole. And every Swede. You are fucked. Millions of Ukrainians would love nothing more than to tie you up and slit your throat, @Moses. I'm being brutal. But brutally honest. What did you expect? You are advocating genocide. Why should every man, woman, and child in Ukraine not want to tie you up and slit your throat? That is what Vlad has created. That is what you are advocating. You call this winning? You are wrong. This is sickness. This is evil. I am 1000 % aware of what my country did in Iraq. I was passionately opposed. Over half the Democrats elected in the US House voted against it. Nancy Pelosi, my US Rep at the time, voted against it. I knew several US Senators personally at the time. They voted against it. Here's one: It was a surprisingly understated speech. But, at the time, to be against the Iraq War was to be unpatriotic, and un-American, to many. And he was running for re-election. The key line, "this could be a very costly mistake," looks like a massive understatement in retrospect. That's the guy who, as a college professor, set my moral compass more than any other single human being. He could have given a passionate speech about genocide, as a Jew who had relatives die in the death camps. What he focused on instead was pragmatic. How many Americans will die? Are we making a big mistake? Google says there were 4,431 American deaths in Iraq. That's nothing compared to how many Russians are now fertilizer. You are easily headed to 100x that number, if Putin wants to keep turning Russians into fertilizer to try to win something he can call a victory. More genocide, and more dead Russians. You call this winning? The number of dead Russians in Ukraine is staggering compared to the number of dead Russians when the USSR invaded Afghanistan, a much weaker nation than Ukraine. With fewer allies than Ukraine. 15,000 Russians died in Afghanistan. Add a "0" and maybe that's how many Russians have died in Ukraine, to date. You call this winning? You think this won't end up like Afghanistan did? In some ways I hope you are right, for the sake of global peace. If it ends up like Afghanistan did, this will gradually destroy Russia, like it ended the Soviet Union. THAT would be a threat to world peace. You should stop advocating genocide. It is sick. It is wrong. But if you can't understand that, at least you should be able to look at what the US did in Iraq, in our great unipolar moment, when we were the most powerful military in the world, and understand that what you are advocating simply will not work. Happily, Ukraine will not birth a new ISIS. Ukraine will end up a democracy, and part of NATO. Russia is going to be the loser. If you can't see that, I genuinely feel sorry for you. Russia is a much weaker nation than the US was when we invaded Iraq, with lots of powerful allies. If you think you can get away with genocide, it is sick and wrong. Quote
Moses Posted March 9 Posted March 9 4 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: You made all my points, @Moses. Russia is stagnating under Putin. Most propagandistic conclusion based on zero facts. Since 2021 GDP PPP of Russia is higher than in Germany. In XXI century growing of GDP per capita in Russia 17 years of 23 is higher or equal than to US, including most of years since sanctions started in 2014. In 2023 it is higher 6 times. Quote
Marc in Calif Posted March 9 Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Moses said: Since 2021 GDP PPP of Russia is higher than in Germany. In XXI century growing of GDP per capita in Russia 17 years of 23 is higher or equal than to US, including most of years since sanctions started in 2014. In 2023 it is higher 6 times. I'm glad you think that GDP growth necessarily indicates a better economy for ordinary citizens. But it doesn't. 😂🤡😂 Here's the real reason for Russia's economic "growth": military spending. Russia's GDP boost from military spending belies wider economic woes Feb 7 (Reuters) - Russia's economy rebounded sharply from a slump in 2022, annual data showed on Wednesday, but the growth relies heavily on state-funded arms and ammunition production and masks problems that are hampering an improvement in Russians' living standards. Summary Russia's GDP rebounded last year from 2022 contraction Growth of 3.6% built on soaring military spending Economists question impact of GDP growth on population Labour issues point to wider problems, wages set to drop stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 9 Author Members Posted March 9 1 hour ago, Moses said: Most propagandistic conclusion based on zero facts. Thank you! Again, you are doing a great job of making my arguments for me. This isn't even a debate. I am using YOUR facts, and YOUR charts. So if I am reaching propagandistic conclusions based on zero facts, it means you have no facts. You are just spewing propaganda. Which is true. You're just doing your best impression of Tucker sucking Putin's cock. It's not a pretty image. It has nothing to do with reality. If you want to make the point that Russia grew in 2023, we agree. There is no debate. Russia did grow. I made that point before you did. If you want to make the point that Russia survived, despite sanctions, we agree. What your own chart above shows is that Russia is stagnating under Putin, and has been since the GFC. Those numbers make it incredibly clear. Based on the numbers you posted, when you go back to 1989, the average Chinese is maybe 1,500 % better off. 15 times better off. The average Russian is maybe 10 % better off? 20 % better off? Again, this is your chart, not mine. But it completely supports my point. China is definitely growing, and winning. Russia is stagnating. In your defense, comparing Russia and China - which was my point = is of course going to overstate just how fucked Russia is. If you take China out of that chart and just compare Russia to Russia, things do not look quite as bad. But my point is correct, and you have confirmed it. Long term, China is clearly winning and growing by leaps and bounds. Russia is stagnating long term. Especially the last decade. If you want to say, "Yes, but Russia has grown," good for you. If a billionaire's income goes up 10 %, and a poor person's income goes up 10 %, both incomes grew at the same rate. One is still a billionaire. And the other is still poor. My point is about the long term. Which you absolutely can't acknowledge, or probably see. Because Russia is fucked. I completely agree that Putin kind of won 2023. He's building a war economy that requires turnings hundreds of thousands of Russians into fertilizer. And that requires committing genocide by killing and raping and torturing Ukrainians. And stealing their children. And making them hate you and want to kill you because you are Russian. If that's your long term economic plan, go for it. You're still fucked. You did not deny that you are personally advocating the genocide of Ukrainians. You want to kill as many of them as you can so Russia can win. It's sick and wrong. But if that is your economic and military plan, good luck. Again, all I have to do is turn to your charts to make my points. If your point is Russia is growing, great. I agree. If your point is that Russia is growing at about the same rate as the US, great. I agree. That is precisely why Russia is fucked. You can't acknowledge that. Probably because you can't see it. Or you have to be willfully ignorant. China has become America's great competitor or rival - and sometimes still partner - because they have grown way more than the US for decades. You have to if you are very small and very poor, like China was, and you want to catch up. Before COVID, and before master Xi, everyone thought China would actually surpass the US economically. Now it's not clear that will ever happen. Why? because their growth has slowed down. Suddenly Master Xi wants to go to San Francisco and meet with US capitalists. Wonder why? Maybe he needs the US and Europe and Asia's vibrant capitalist democracies more than he thought. Your own chart proves that Russia is at best stuck and stagnating. As I said above, Putin's "good years" were in the Naughts. Back then Americans and Europeans thought maybe Russia is now a partner. Maybe we all invest and grow together. That's part of why Russia grew significantly faster than the US in almost every year of Putin's first decade, up until the global financial crisis. Your own chart confirms that. I agree. Since 2012 or so, as your chart shows, the US has grown either faster or at the same rate as Russia every year. And that is AFTER Putin decided in order to grow your country had to create an economic growth plan based on genocide and turning Russians into fertilizer. You are fucked. You can't outgrow us. Even if I assume every Russian agrees that the best way to grow is to kill and rape and torture and be a global pariah and turn yourselves into fertilizer, that is self-evidently not a good growth plan. You might try electric cars. But that's China. You might try AI. But that's the US. Russians have genocide and becoming fertilizer. You haven't tried to deny any of my facts, because you can't. That World Bank chart I'll post again is consistent with your point: that the US and Russia have been growing at roughly the same pace since about 2017. You do realize that's why you're fucked, right? Or are you just bad at math? One, unlike China, you can never catch up. Because, at best, if you all turn yourselves into fertilizer and are very good at genocide, maybe you can grow as fast as the US. China has grown faster than the US, which that chart obscures. Russia is not growing faster than the US, and can't. Second, even if you can grow as fast as the US by turning yourselves into fertilizer, every single year the US still becomes way more bigger and powerful than Russia. Because we grew a lot more in absolute terms. This is why Murderous Vlad had to put together a wartime budget that is unstainable. He has to pray that Trump wins and Europe bows down. Because that budget is unsustainable. That's what the RUSSIAN media says. But that's the money it takes to make all those weapons for Vlad's genocide. Vlad is doing everything he can to try to make or buy enough weapons to dominate Ukraine. And he can't. Right now, the best he can do is a stalemate. Of a much smaller and weaker country. The US could send 5 or 10 times as much military aid as we will likely eventually send this year. The problem for the US is internal politics (Trump wanting to bow down to Putin) and Biden and Europe not wanting to start a nuclear war with a genocidal sadist. You really don't get that this dooms you, economically and militarily and technologically. Even if you can grow as much as the US by genocide and turning yourselves into fertilizer, you're still becoming smaller and weaker compared to the US in absolute terms every year. That's why the US won the Cold War with the USSR, as I said above. Compared to the Cold War and the USSR, this is not even a fair fight. You are fucked. Unless Master Xi for some reason decides he loves his murderous pit bull more than he loves being part of a thriving global economy. I would not bet on that, if I were you. 1 hour ago, Moses said: Since 2021 GDP PPP of Russia is higher than in Germany. is that even serious? Really? Or have you now turned to comedy because you have no facts and no argument? Yes, Vlad is a desperate genocidal sadist who is manipulating currency and interest rates. And basically bribing people with money he doesn't have to try to get them to accept genocide and turning poor Russians into fertilizer. And you are telling us, in your own words, that you accept genocide. You hope that Vlad's genocide works and you can kill as many Ukrainians as it takes. Are you also good with Russian soldiers raping women and children? The torture? The stealing of children? Or just the genocide? Some economy! Russia is a sorry failing mess compared to the US. People here are bitching and moaning about 3 % inflation. That chart above is the most recent I could find. But the most recent number I got is 7.5 % inflation in Russia in November 2023. It's gong up, not down. Investors and banks and corporations in the US can't wait for the 5.5 % federal funds rate to start going down. But everyone agrees it has peaked. In Russia the most recent benchmark rate is now 16 %, I believe And growing. Oh. Business bankruptcies are growing very rapidly, too. Murderous Vlad could not keep a bankruptcy moratorium in place forever. When you destroy your economic base, other than your genocide economy, and turn your own people into fertilizer, at some point that catches up with you. You think this is a winning economic plan? This is a fucking nightmare. This is why your best and brightest young people are going any fucking place in the world to live - other than Russia. If Russia breaks up, like many experts think it will in the next decade, this is why. You are fucked. And you deserve to be, because you are supporting genocide. Marc in Calif 1 Quote
Moses Posted March 9 Posted March 9 3 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: is that even serious? Really? Yes, dear, seriously. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?end=2022&locations=RU-DE&start=2000 Quote
Moses Posted March 9 Posted March 9 And, speaking about brainless Joe Alzheimer's politic to push Ukraine to fight "till last Ukrainian". Pope Francis said Ukraine must have “the courage to raise the white flag” and begin negotiations with Russia. In his opinion, when a country sees that it is “failing,” it must “have the courage” to negotiate. The Pope expressed his opinion in an interview with the Swiss broadcaster RSI. https://www.rsi.ch/info/mondo/Conflitto-a-Gaza-“due-responsabili”.-Ucraina-“il-coraggio-della-bandiera-bianca”--2091038.html (IT) Quote
KeepItReal Posted March 10 Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Moses said: Pope Francis said Ukraine must have “the courage to raise the white flag” and begin negotiations with Russia. This from a guy who wears white after labor day. Clearly his judgment should be called into question! 🤭 Bingo T Dog and stevenkesslar 2 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 10 Author Members Posted March 10 10 minutes ago, Moses said: Yes, dear, seriously. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?end=2022&locations=RU-DE&start=2000 Both of your posts just continue to make my argument. Thanks for making my case. Plus, every time I fact check your propaganda I learn some new and interesting things about why and how Russia is losing. At no point have you denied that you want Ukrainian genocide. You want as many Ukrainians to die as it takes so Russia can win. You said it. Not me. implicitly, that also means you want as many Russians turned into fertilizer as it takes. If you do NOT advocate the genocide of Ukrainians, please clarify. You keep trying to dance around it by blaming Putin's sadism and genocide on Biden. Now you want to drag the Pope into it. You haven't disputed or disproven that Russia is stagnating under Putin, and has been for 15 years. Interest rates and inflation in your country are going through the roof and out of control. Your rebuttal is that Russia has survived, and grown as much as the US. Great. It means we are way more powerful, and you can never catch up. And every year your economy, with is a fraction of the US economy, actually becomes smaller to ours in absolute terms. But instead of addressing facts and reality, you want to say Joe Biden is the cause of Putin's genocide. And the Pope wants Ukraine to bow down to Putin. I've used your charts and your facts to confirm my argument. Again, let's stipulate that Putin won more than he lost in 2023. Although it's far more ambiguous than that. Putin's not really winning when inflation and interest rates in Russia are out of control, misery is rising, business bankruptcies are out of control, and hundreds of thousands of Russians are being processed into fertilizer. Which is probably why you all want to believe these delusions about how Ukraine or the US or Europe or NATO are going to bow down to Putin. But let's stipulate all this is a win for your genocidal sadist. You still have not rebutted one argument I have made using your charts and your facts. You're fucked. You just keep changing the subject. Now you want to talk about Germany. Great. I did live there for a year. So I understand a little better how Vlad fucked that up, too. How did Vlad manage to be so genocidal that a nation that mostly trusted the US less than Russia now sees Russia as a global threat to peace? And the US as a partner in protecting the peace from your genocidal sadist? As recently as 2017 28 % of Germans saw Russia as a reliable partner, compared to 25 % who saw the US as a reliable partner. Meaning, most Germans don't particularly trust either Russia or the US. That was what I understood when I spoke with most Germans. Now Germany has turned dramatically against Russia. And to some extent China, since they see how Master Xi manipulates his murderous pit bull. 86 % of Germans now call Russia a global threat. 63 % of Germans now say that about China. Master Xi can't be happy that, in addition to being unreliable at genocide, his murderous pit bull is now fucking up China's relationship with Germany. If you think Master Xi will choose his murderous old pit bull over Europe and the US, think again. Now only 10 % of Germans say they can trust the Russian Federation. See what watching Russian genocide does to people in Europe? And you call this winning? Ostpolitik was a big thing in Germany when I lived there. Arguably, it worked. Germany is whole again. Vlad nailed that coffin shut for decades to come. By fucking up their economy and their gas. Again, you are making my point. Putin's stupidity and cruelty was a huge win for the US LNG industry. It's yet another one of unlimited examples of how the US and China win, and Russia loses. China wins because they get Vlad's cheap gas. The US wins because it opened up new markets for us. But I have agreed with you that the Russian economy is growing as much as the US economy, in part because Vlad is selling whatever he can for cheap. Including Russian life. That's not a win for Russia, or a long term economic plan. But go ahead and delude yourself. You'll never catch up to the US, or China. Every year Russia grows at the same rate as the US means Vlad is the weak, aging, and sadistic cripple who is falling further and further behind the US in absolute terms. But, I know. You have no choice. Your chart comparing Germany and Russia just repeats my points about how Russia is losing, and the points we agree on. Vlad did catch up to Germany between 2000 and 2010. I have said repeatedly now that in his first decade, Russia outgrew the US. And Germany. You'll never get close to the economic power of the US. But you were bigger than Germany's GDP in 2014, as your chart shows. Since then, stagnation. Or, to be generous, you have been able to keep up with Germany. And in a year where you were hoping to make them bow down because they needed your gas, and you were making money turning yourselves into fertilizer, you got ahead of them for one year. Woo hoo! If you want to call it a victory that you nailed the coffin of economic ties with Germany shut, and now few of them trust you, and it fucked their economy for a year or two, go ahead. But you lose. You have not responded to, let alone rebutted, the picture of an out of control, genocidal, stagnating Russia. Because you can't. When I say the US and China are winning, and Russia is losing, that chart below is what I mean. Some Americans would say this shows the US is losing. I don't believe that. The whole global pie is growing. For the US. For China. For Nigeria. For most people. Capitalism lifted billions out of poverty. That is good for humanity. Most Americans I know think that way. Russia is being left behind. And now you have given everyone on the planet a reason to be glad you are failing. If Russia grew as much as the US this year, and got a little ahead of Germany for a year by destroying their trust in you, and you managed to survive while committing genocide, that's not a win. That's why you're fucked. You can't see that. I get why it's hard to see. If there is any possible way that you think Russia is actually becoming more powerful, or richer, or more respected, please show us. All you have shown us so far is that your genocidal pit bull, who is aging and crippled, has managed to survive by committing genocide and turning his people into fertilizer. In New Poll, 89% of Ukrainians Reject Ceding Land to Reach Peace With Russia I think you, me, and Pope Francis would agree that's a problem. Generally, I oppose most wars. So I agree it's a problem that Ukrainians hate you so much for your genocide and rape and torture and stealing their children and destroying their cities and lives that they would rather kill you than make peace with you. If you want to say Iraq was a genocide that the US started, I'm fine with that. The only place we disagree is that it is a fact that American men and women in uniform did not systematically rape, torture, and kill innocent civilians in Iraq. Many sectarian Iraqis did that to each other, after the US opened Pandora's box. In Ukraine, Russian men in uniform are systematically raping, torturing, and killing innocent women and children. So there's a real problem, beyond Putin, with the misogyny and cruelty of so many Russian men who find it so easy to rape, torture, and kill Ukrainian women and children. I heard they don't like gays much, either. What values! The reason I bring that up is they hate you. The Ukrainians who have lived through the rape, torture, and mass murder by so many Russian men hate you. They want to kill you, @Moses They would love to kill you right now, wherever you are. And piss on you, and shit on you, and laugh at your pathetic dead Russian body. They hate you. And, yeah, Americans have been in that position. They burned some Americans alive in Iraq just to make a point about how much they hated us. I'm not saying this to be cruel. I'm saying this to be clear. I'm not the Pope. I can say they'd rather slit your throat and shit on you than make peace with you. There is this bullshit argument about how Ukrainians could have had peace with Generous and Loving and Kind Vlad, other than for Boris Johnson. Or something like that. It makes about as much sense as the idea that Ukraine needs to be liberated from their Jewish Nazi leader. it just shows how stupid and desperate Vlad is, to say things that no child who some Russian soldier raped or tortured would believe. But that's the problem. I think they hate you. I'm not Ukrainian. Never been there. But I read the polls, and watch the interviews. I think they would rather slit your throat, piss on you, and shit on you, than make peace with you. Sorry if that offends you, or The Pope. It's a problem for the US, and for me as a pro-Ukraine Democrat. Because there is no evidence they have the ability to win back Crimea, for example. Even if we sent them every bomb we own. So now, thanks to Genocidal Vlad, you have a country that used to be "brothers" with Russians. And now hates you. This is why you are fucked, and it can not possibly end well for you. You can build pretty new buildings in Mariupol, for sure. But that doesn't buy you love from everyone who loved all the people Vlad killed in his genocide. Including the ones that survived, and were raped or tortured. Here's another problem, which I'd guess we mostly agree on. The US military advisers are at best a mixed blessing. At worst, they suck. I'll single out David Petraeus. I listened to him cheerlead for how the US would win in Afghanistan. He was wrong. I listened to him cheerlead for how the US would win in Iraq, which I opposed from Day One. He was wrong. So forgive me for never believing him when he was a cheerleader for Ukraine's noble 2023 offensive. He was wrong, again. That's a problem. I'm no military expert. But it's not hard to guess that Ukraine will learn from Russia's 2023 playbook, and do what is easy for them in their own country. Play defense. Dig in. Be kind to every Russian you see. Except the ones that breathe, or move. Kill them when they breathe, or move. That way Vlad has to keep sending over more fertilizer. I'd rather give Ukraine the weapons they want and let them kill Russians as they choose. With guardrails set to prevent World War III. Let them decide when they are tired of it, and want to make a deal. Pop quiz. Viet Nam. Afghanistan. Iraq. Libya. What do they all have in common? They were all invaded by the US, or the USSR, or both. They all spent years just grinding the invader down. By every measure, Ukraine is bigger and more powerful than any of them. And they have better and richer allies. So if you don't see that they are going to do the same thing, and grind you down, you are really blind. They have no other choice. I will give Vlad this. He was able to get Chechnya to submit. They are in Russia. They are a fraction of the size of Ukraine. And they had little power or money and few allies. Ukraine is not the same ball game. You're going to have to keep sending lots of Russians to be processed into fertilizer in Ukraine, I'm afraid. Lots of them. For a long time. Watch out for that out of control inflation and interest rates. And that unsustainable budget. It will get worse. And don't blame it on Biden, or the Pope. Blame it on your genocidal sadist. And the Russian soldiers who rape, torture, and kill. One last thing about Germany. 70 % of Germans think the war won't end in 2024. They are almost certainly right. That says two things. One, Germans are realists who are braced for this to go on for a long time. Whether they like it or not. Second, you are fucked. Germany has turned against Russia in a way they never have in my lifetime. And Vlad is playing for time. He's hoping Trump wins and Europe bows down to him. Ain't gonna happen. But you can hope. And deny reality. Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 10 Author Members Posted March 10 1 hour ago, KeepItReal said: This from a guy who wears white after labor day. Clearly his judgment should be called into question! 🤭 Call me Gay. And I have had sex with more than a few priests. But when it comes to fashion, sorry. I've always had a thing for a man in uniform. Beyond his good fashion sense, Milley's negotiating insight was right in Fall 2022. What he said makes more sense than what the Pope just said, with all due respect. Quote Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley said the Russian military was “really hurting bad” after nearly nine months of war in which the Kremlin has failed to achieve any of its goals. The Ukrainians have racked up “success after success after success,” Milley quipped, while the Russians “have failed every single time.” Quote “There may be a political solution where politically the Russians withdraw,” Milley said at a press conference Wednesday. “You want to negotiate at a time when you’re at your strength, and your opponent is at weakness. And it’s possible, maybe, that there’ll be a political solution. All I’m saying is there’s a possibility for it.” I'm not saying Ukraine should have listened to him. But I agree with what Milley said. A military victory does not seem possible for either side. And I'm glad he said it. If only to show the US military is not against peace. It makes way more sense to me than what felt like yet another dose of Petraeus and his gaga military overconfidence. @Moses is teaching us that Putin is now setting up Russians with the same overconfidence both Ukrainians and Americans had in 2022. That's the percentage of Ukrainians who want to join NATO. It is an amazing, but understandable, reversal. Quote
Moses Posted March 10 Posted March 10 3 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley said the Russian military was “really hurting bad” after nearly nine months of war in which the Kremlin has failed to achieve any of its goals. Yeah, yeah. But now is not "after 9 months". Now is "after 2 years", and situation became even more worst for Ukrainians, despite all things Miller said and promised. So you see yourself, how correct Miller was when told all that bullshit. Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 10 Author Members Posted March 10 1 hour ago, Moses said: Yeah, yeah. But now is not "after 9 months". Now is "after 2 years", and situation became even more worst for Ukrainians, despite all things Miller said and promised. So you see yourself, how correct Miller was when told all that bullshit. We agree. The stuff about how Boris Johnson kept Ukraine from making a peace deal with Kind And Loving Vlad is laughable bullshit. We know that. We don't know what would have happened if Ukraine had listened to Milley. Who certainly had a good point. If there was a deal to be made, it would have been simple at core. Putin gets out of Ukraine. Ukraine stays out of NATO. Somehow they try to get along. Kissinger's idea that somehow Ukraine could be a bridge between Russia and the West was a good idea. Vlad's invasion killed that idea. I can see two huge problems with Milley's idea. By 2022, Putin had bet his power and his place in history on his special military operation. So clearing out of Ukraine, even if he got a commitment on NATO, is something that would have looked like a loss. You know better than me how that might have played in Russia. It certainly would have been good news for all the Russians being processed into fertilizer. The other problem is how Ukrainians feel. That's simple, too. They hate you. They want to kill you. I know my language is over the top. But 90 % of them say they don't trust Putin, because of his genocide, and won't agree to give away land for peace. So the idea that they will make peace with Russia anytime soon seems extremely unlikely. They'd much rather kill you. Harsh, and blunt. But true. It's bad news for both Ukraine, and Russia. Which is why I guess you want to blame Biden, or whoever. I guess this is why Russians might hope the Pope performs some miracle or something. But Milley seemed correct in 2022 and just as correct in 2024 that a military victory is impossible for either side. More likely this is a long and horrific and bloody slog that ends like Afghanistan did, for both the USSR and US. You're fucked. You can't say you were not warned. Quote
reader Posted March 10 Posted March 10 9 hours ago, Moses said: And, speaking about brainless Joe Alzheimer's politic to push Ukraine to fight "till last Ukrainian". Pope Francis said Ukraine must have “the courage to raise the white flag” and begin negotiations with Russia. In his opinion, when a country sees that it is “failing,” it must “have the courage” to negotiate. The Pope expressed his opinion in an interview with the Swiss broadcaster RSI. https://www.rsi.ch/info/mondo/Conflitto-a-Gaza-“due-responsabili”.-Ucraina-“il-coraggio-della-bandiera-bianca”--2091038.html (IT) I don't think it's so much as having the courage to negotiate as it is to suspend all intelligence in the belief that Putin is an honorable man and can be depended upon to keep his word. stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Moses Posted March 10 Posted March 10 12 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: More likely this is a long and horrific and bloody slog that ends like Afghanistan did, for both the USSR and US. Afghanistan has 3 main differences with Ukraine: This is a mountainous country with terrain inaccessible to heavy equipment, and Ukraine is flat as a table and accessible to tanks almost everywhere. Afghans speak an unfamiliar language. Any Russian will understand a Ukrainian. The languages are very, very close, there is no communication barrier. Afghanistan is far away. Ukraine is "behind the next pillar." From 3 to 5 million Ukrainians constantly went to work in the Russian Federation. So there are no logistical problems in this war, logistics are relatively cheap, a repair base for equipment and hospitals for the wounded are “around the corner.” Quote
Marc in Calif Posted March 11 Posted March 11 On 3/9/2024 at 3:48 PM, Moses said: Pope Francis said Ukraine must have “the courage to raise the white flag” and begin negotiations with Russia. In his opinion, when a country sees that it is “failing,” it must “have the courage” to negotiate. The Pope expressed his opinion in an interview with the Swiss broadcaster RSI. https://www.rsi.ch/info/mondo/Conflitto-a-Gaza-“due-responsabili”.-Ucraina-“il-coraggio-della-bandiera-bianca”--2091038.html (IT) When defeated and owned, you happily switch from your proven misinterpretation of Russia's GDP to Pope Francis. You internet trolls just blindly pivot from one ridiculous talking point to another. Do you think that either President Zelensky or Little Pooty Poot Pootin cares what the Pope says? How juvenile of you to think that! 🤣 stevenkesslar 1 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 11 Author Members Posted March 11 6 hours ago, Moses said: Afghanistan has 3 main differences with Ukraine: This is a mountainous country with terrain inaccessible to heavy equipment, and Ukraine is flat as a table and accessible to tanks almost everywhere. Afghans speak an unfamiliar language. Any Russian will understand a Ukrainian. The languages are very, very close, there is no communication barrier. Afghanistan is far away. Ukraine is "behind the next pillar." From 3 to 5 million Ukrainians constantly went to work in the Russian Federation. So there are no logistical problems in this war, logistics are relatively cheap, a repair base for equipment and hospitals for the wounded are “around the corner.” Congratulations, @Moses. I am proud to bestow on you the esteemed Gen. David Petraeus Award For Military Propaganda And Bullshit. Petraeus had a knack for explaining how the Afghan surge was going to work beautifully. And then how the Iraqi surge was going to work beautifully. Needless to say, by the time he started cheerleading for Ukraine's 2023 offensive, hearing Petraeus on TV talking about how successful it was going to be sounded like ................. well, bullshit. Sounds like you're reciting the bullshit and propaganda you hear and read from Vlad's war planners. I'm not good at military strategy. Which is why I'm good at saying there are some very common sense things that aren't that complicated that anyone can understand. The rhetoric about taking back Crimea always seemed particularly overconfident. After Russia had months to set up defenses in the areas they occupied, it seemed predictable that it would be a huge challenge to get through them. And - what a complete surprise! - it was. That's why I give Gen. Milley credit for not spouting bullshit. And instead advocating negotiating for peace while your enemy is weak. Problem, as @reader noted, is who actually believes Putin is honorable, or keeps his word? What also seems common sense is that all the rules of occupying wars apply here. It's their country, not yours. They hate you, they want to get rid of you, they want to kill you, and they will gradually and incrementally do that. If Russians want to keep fighting and turning millions of yourselves into fertilizer, maybe that will work. But the history of this is that you're in for years and years and years of hell. Just like in Viet Nam, Afghanistan, and Iraq, to name the most obvious quagmires. It's already fucking up Russia's economy badly, and that will just continue and escalate. You don't want to believe it. Fine, Gen. Petraeus. Cheerlead and bullshit all you want. I don't see Vlad stopping. And I think Milley was right. He can't win militarily, and neither can Ukraine. My guess is the most likely thing that will change is Ukraine may eventually decide that they were overconfident. And that some of this territory - especially Crimea - will never be part of Ukraine again. But that is a long way off. 90 % of them don't want to make peace with Russia on Russian terms. Again, because Putin is a man of genocide, not honor. So I think you're stuck with a future of trying to keep an economy based on genocide and turning Russians into fertilize going. Best of luck. And congratulations on you new honor, @Moses. Too bad I can't give you an Oscar, as well. That went to the people who documented Vlad's genocide., The global effort to document the genocide and the horror of Putin's Russia is just getting started. Marc in Calif 1 Quote
Moses Posted March 11 Posted March 11 When Russia destroys something, it then rebuilds it. When the United States destroys, no one comes to the aid of people who have lost a roof over their heads. Grozny, Chechnya: Mariupol, Russia: Iraq: Libya: Syria: Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 11 Author Members Posted March 11 7 hours ago, Moses said: When Russia destroys something, it then rebuilds it. When the United States destroys, no one comes to the aid of people who have lost a roof over their heads. Grozny, Chechnya: Mariupol, Russia: Iraq: Libya: Syria: Yup. You deserve the Petraeus Propaganda Award. You are proving it with every post. This is exactly why 90 % of Ukrainians don't want to make peace with your genocidal sadist. Putin is a man of genocide, not honor. He has made that very clear. At the end of 20 Days of Mariupol, it says, "An estimated 25,000 people are known to have died in the siege of Mariupol. The true toll is probably much higher." Can you show us the pictures where you rebuilt the 25,000 dead people? The film showed us the dead mothers your genocidal sadist kjiled. The film showed us the dead babies your genocidal sadist killed. Show us the pictures of how you rebuilt the dead. This is why 90 % of Ukraine does not want to make peace with your genocidal sadist. Ain't gonna happen, @Moses. Believe and dish out all the propaganda you want. But the hell will continue, thanks to what your genocidal sadist did. Can you estimate for us how many more Russians need to be processed into fertilizer? How high does inflation in Russia need to go? How high do interest rates need to go in Russia? How many bankruptcies? Educate us, please! This is not happening because of NATO. Not because of the US. Not because of Europe. It is happening because Ukrainians see Putin as the genocidal sadist he is, and Russians soldiers as the torturers and rapists and mass murderers that they are. How could they not? Everything you are saying confirms my points, and often restates them. I'll restate that I'm okay with saying the US committed genocide in Iraq. I opposed it. Most Democrats opposed it. Nancy Pelosi opposed it. How did it end? Very badly for the US. Even though we are far more powerful than Russia, and we had a world of allies. And yet somehow you want to believe the propaganda that it will end differently in Ukraine. Even though Ukraine is stronger, has way more allies, and probably hates you more. And already has demonstrated that they know how to kick your ass. What Ukraine proved in 2023 is that they don't have superpowers. They couldn't just walk through horrific killing fields of defense set up by Russia like heroes in a Marvel movie. But you are not winning a war that is a quagmire. And will continue to be a horror that drains Russia of blood and treasure. Just like our invasion of Iraq (or Afghanistan, or Viet Nam) did to the US. Grozny and Chechnya makes my point. It was an internal civil war, not an occupation of another country. And even then, it took about a decade to quell the war. 7 hours ago, Moses said: When Russia destroys something, it then rebuilds it The key verb is "destroy". That is correct. Russia destroys. Russia kills. Russia rapes. Russia tortures. Again, you are making my point. And yet you can't simply connect the dots of blood of how genocide works. Even though you are pointing to the US and describing, quite accurately, how it worked in Iraq. And how it will end for Russia in Ukraine. You condone the genocide, and deny the genocide. You condone mass murder. You just won't admit that this is precisely why 90 % of Ukrainians don't trust the genocidal sadist, and his rapist soldiers, who have done this to them. They found something like 800 Chechen bodies in mass graves from the 1995 Chechen war. They found something like 5000 bodies in mass graves from the second Chechen war. Did you restore them? Can you show us the pictures? Your point is this: "GENOCIDE WORKS." We committed genocide in Chechnya and it worked. We were willing to destroy everything, and kill everyone. We killed the men. We killed the women. We killed the children. Our strategy was to destroy, and commit genocide. And it worked! Woo hoo! If you think that will work in Ukraine, this is why I gave you the Petraeus Propaganda Award. Everything about Chechnya tells us precisely why Russia will lose in Ukraine. Chechnya has a bit more than 1 million people. In Ukraine, there are maybe 10 times as many WHO LEFT UKRAINE because of the genocide, and are absolutely determined to return from Poland or wherever they are. Then there's the maybe 37 million people still in Ukraine. You think this is like Chechnya? You think you can just destroy and destroy and destroy and keep on with the genocide and win that way? Show me one example in history where that actually worked. Every recent example - Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Viet Nam - shows why genocide and mass destruction doesn't work. It just dooms millions of Russians to suffering and being processed into fertilizer. This is not for me or you to decide. Personally, I hope that 90 % of Ukrainians get tired of the war. I hope they shift and maybe decide they can live without Crimea. And maybe just build a huge fucking wall and join NATO. But even that will take a very long time. The only other alternative is what happened to the USSR in Afghanistan. It ground Russia down (with only 10 % of the dead Russians we already have in Ukraine) and it ground the Russian economy and morale down. And that took many years. So it took 10 years of hell, mass murder, rape, torture, and genocide in Chechnya, which has 1 million people and is part of the Russian Federation. If you think it will ONLY take 10 years in Ukraine for Russia to win, you are deluding yourself, Gen. Petraeus. You are explaining why you will lose to us. And you don't even get it. You also don't get that the US does rebuild. The appropriate example, especially in Europe, is what happened after World War II. The US did occupy. The US and our allies came up with the Marshall Plan. We did rebuild Germany. It became a vibrant economy. It has been a strong ally to America. In my view, Germany was a good ally when Schröder opposed the Iraq War. We should have listened. I agreed with him. Germany is a strong ally now in welcoming Ukrainian refugees and opposing your genocidal sadist. Have you noticed that Ukrainians hate Russians, and the idea of being part of Russia? Have you noticed how they can't wait to be part of the EU and NATO, and build a wall between them and your genocidal sadist and his raping and mass murdering soldiers? So, again, all your points explain the details of why and how Russia will lose. The US is probably one of the best examples in all of world history of how you win a war and occupy the country of the loser. And rebuild it in a way that, 80 years later, it is one your strongest allies. Japan is another example. Although, as you like to point out, the US nuked Japan. Did you notice whose side Japan is on now? Do you understand why the Japanese people feel the way they do? We did nuke them, after they bombed the shit out of us and started the war. It is a great example of how you go from being enemies to being allies, based on mutual self-interest. Where did the Soviet Union or Russia ever do that? Poland? East Germany? Estonia? Lithuania? Afghanistan? Ukraine now? Give me a fucking break! All you have proven so far is that in a small part of your failing federation, genocide can be made to work. For now. If and when the Federation collapses, Chechnya will be an independent country. Thanks for pointing out how hollow all your propaganda is. Marc in Calif and Bingo T Dog 2 Quote
Moses Posted March 11 Posted March 11 1 hour ago, stevenkesslar said: And maybe just build a huge fucking wall and join NATO. But even that will take a very long time. The only other alternative is what happened to the USSR in Afghanistan. Dreams, dreams... Pope Francis already told what will be in the end: white flag, falling Nazi regime of Zelenskiy, demilitarization of Ukraine and neutral status. And I'm not sure if NATO will be the same to that time NATO as we know now, because Trump demonstrating clear intention to withdraw US from NATO. Marc in Calif and stevenkesslar 2 Quote
Marc in Calif Posted March 11 Posted March 11 3 minutes ago, Moses said: Pope Francis already told what will be in the end... The Pope is celibate, isolated, and weak. He has no first-hand knowledge of reality. Yet you believe that he can successfully predict the future. Why don't you tell us when Jesus will return and start Armageddon and the rapture! 🤡 No. The Pope simply made an ineffectual, weak, hopeless, and feeble suggestion that NOBODY will follow. Try harder next time and pay attention! 🤣 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 11 Author Members Posted March 11 48 minutes ago, Moses said: Dreams, dreams... Pope Francis already told what will be in the end: white flag, falling Nazi regime of Zelenskiy, demilitarization of Ukraine and neutral status. And I'm not sure if NATO will be the same to that time NATO as we know now, because Trump demonstrating clear intention to withdraw US from NATO. Damn! Once again. We agree. This isn't even a debate. You keep making my arguments for me Americans Remain Committed to NATO Two-thirds want to see U.S. increase or maintain commitment to NATO That poll is less than a month old. So, yes. Trump wants to bow down to Putin. Trump is okay with Putin's genocide. Trump wants to weaken if not destroy NATO. These are all among the many reasons this weak, corrupt, law-breaking, cop-bone breaking wannabe fascist will lose. You're just deeply fucked, @Moses. You keep saying outrageous shit. If you think Americans will elect Trump so he can bow down to Putin and destroy NATO, you are clueless in your denial. At no point have you rebutted my main point. You condone genocide. You think genocide works. You actually want MORE genocide. Now you want to argue that we can kill as many children as we want. We can kill as many women as we want. We can kill as many men as we want. See? Genocide works. We did it is Grozny. You just have to kill as many children, women, and men as it takes, dump them in mass graves, and pave them over in concrete and put new buildings on top of their bodies. Ain't it swell? Doesn't it look pretty? I'd say there's probably a 30 to 50 % chance that in a decade Chechnya will be an independent state, after the Russian Federation breaks up. That's a very hard one to call. What's easier to call, because it's inevitable, is that your genocide in Ukraine will weaken Russia - politically, economically, and militarily. It's happening right now. You can't deny it. Interest rates are soaring. Inflation is soaring. Bankruptcies are soaring. The US stock market keeps making new highs, and the average American's net worth is up 30 % since 2019. Vlad needs an inflationary pretend budget, and he needs to process hundreds of thousands of Russians into fertilizer, just to TRY to keep this genocide going. You think you are on a sustainable or winning path? Give me a fucking break. 48 minutes ago, Moses said: Pope Francis already told what will be in the end: white flag, falling Nazi regime of Zelenskiy Yes. The Jew is a Nazi. Got it. Makes perfect sense. You're so far out there, @Moses, that I would not stop at the Pope. Let's bring in the master of fantasy, Walt Disney. You'll need it. Let's have happy talk about genocide. That's what you want, and what you actually need. Happy talk about the genocide, to try to think it is not just pure evil. When you wish for genocide Makes no difference where you die All the hate your heart desires Will come to you. As you build your war machine No cruelty is too extreme When you wish for genocide As Russians do Kill their babies rape their Moms Shell their cities with your bombs When you wish for genocide You always lose. Here's the thing @Moses. Thanks to your genocide, 90 % of Ukrainians love Vlad even more than Walt Disney. They just can't wait for Russian soldiers to kill their men, rape their women, and blow up their babies. It is sowing love and respect for Russians, which will build 100 years of peace. If that's the fantasy you want to believe, enjoy it while it lasts. Marc in Calif and Bingo T Dog 2 Quote
Moses Posted March 11 Posted March 11 5 hours ago, Marc in Calif said: He has no first-hand knowledge of reality. Yet you believe that he can successfully predict the future. Well.. then listen CIA director Burns. Quote Ukraine is likely to lose “significant ground” against Russia this year. https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/us-news/2024/03/11/not-funding-ukraine-a-massive-and-historic-mistake-cia-director-warns/ stevenkesslar and Marc in Calif 2 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 12 Author Members Posted March 12 2 hours ago, Moses said: Well.. then listen CIA director Burns. https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/us-news/2024/03/11/not-funding-ukraine-a-massive-and-historic-mistake-cia-director-warns/ Americans Remain Committed to NATO Two-thirds want to see U.S. increase or maintain commitment to NATO I of course just posted that, but it bears repeating. I'm talking US domestic politics now. The equivalent point is that 2 in 3 Americans agree with Trump on immigration. Biden has not been tough enough. We should close the border. So do people care more about keeping "illegals" out of America? Or about keeping Ukrainians safe from a genocidal sadist? In terms of how this plays out in November, I think it matters a lot that in both cases Republicans are just blocking anything and creating chaos. They are blocking money going to Ukraine, which most Americans, and many House Republicans (but not most Trump Republicans) support. They don't want compromise on immigration. I would bet money that whole "do nothing Congress" thing is going to hurt them in November. Now let's add what the CIA Director just said. I pray to God he is right. His point is that NOT funding Ukraine is a "massive and historic mistake". Same thing Biden said. We should not bow down to Putin, a genocidal sadist. Most Americans agree. They see Putin as a genocidal sadist. They support NATO. They do not want Ukraine to lose. They believe we should support Ukraine. Biden, and his CIA director, are preaching to the choir. This is what it means if Putin gains "significant ground". Your genocidal sadist killed a baby boy in Mariupol. His parents are heartbroken. For all we know, your genocidal sadist also managed to kill the mother, the father, the doctors and the nurses. Your genocidal sadist killed tens of thousands of innocent people in Mariupol. People who voted 80 % against being part of your genocidal sadist's nation. They were right. Why would anyone want a genocidal sadist as a leader? Why would Russians want a genocidal sadist leader who processes them into fertilizer? Trump's best argument is that we need to end this, and focus on building pretty new buildings in Ukraine. Buildings built over the bodies of all those dead Ukrainian babies, and dead Russian soldiers. It's an argument. But if that is the best Trump has, he's gonna lose. At least based on that argument. But it does make it sound like Trump is against killing baby boys. Trump is for building pretty buildings. If Burns is right, and Trump's effort to block aid to Ukraine encourages Vlad to go big on genocide, it mostly makes Trump look weaker, and stupider, and more of a Putin cock sucker. I love that picture. Two of the best Putin cock suckers in the world, amid the opulence of Mar A Lago. Please, let's plaster that picture all over America. And please, make sure that photos says: "Not a penny more to Ukraine if I win. I, Donald Trump, will cut off all aid to Ukraine if I win." Is it is reasonable to have Orban suck Trump's cock while he says it? Or maybe Orban and Trump sucking Vlad's cock? It's an idea. Maybe we can be like Russia, and suck Putin's cock. And if we can't be like Russia, we can be like Hungary. A junior cock sucker. A wannabe Putin cock sucker, gradually undermining democracy every way we can. That way Putin won't kill our babies, and rape our women, and kill our soldiers. It's an idea. If Putin does launch an offensive, and what Americans see on TV are more dead baby boys, and more sobbing Moms who may be dead themselves soon, this is not good for Trump. Because it just makes him look even more like the weak, pathetic, selfish Putin cock sucker that he is. One thing I'm hoping, for Ukraine's sake, is Putin is smart enough (spoiler alert: he's not) to hold off on the genocidal sadism a bit until after the US election. Putin should be smart enough (spoiler alert: he's not) to figure out that making it clear that Trump pals around with baby killers who are genocidal sadists isn't really what we expect of our Presidents. If you don't believe me, just pay attention to all the feelings about Gaza, as you already know. Putin would be doing Bibi The Butcher a big favor by taking the focus off his genocide in Gaza and putting it back on the genocide in Ukraine. An offensive that kills more babies and Moms in Ukraine would accomplish that. And Putin is the kind of genocidal sadist that will do it. I have a very hard time believing that the 2 in 3 Americans who support NATO will buy Trump's vision of weakness, stupidity, and lining up to suck Vlad's cock like Tucker did. Maybe America will become Putin's cock sucker. The ones who do will rationalize it by saying Vlad's not such a bad guy after all. Which is a bit hard to believe when the images on TV are about how the genocidal sadist is killing babies in Ukraine again. But who knows. Maybe America will bow down to Putin. But I would not bet on it. This could backfire. I'm guessing Burns has been reading the polls, as Biden has: Quote When asked how the U.S. should respond to a stalemate between Russian and Ukrainian forces, a plurality (34%) of Americans would support trying to end the war by shifting its focus to diplomacy while continuing to aid Ukraine’s defense, as opposed to cutting off aid in order to force negotiations (14%), cutting off aid and staying uninvolved diplomatically (13%), ramping up aid indefinitely in pursuit of total victory (11%), or becoming directly involved in the war by sending U.S. troops to fight Russian forces in Ukraine (5%). That's an interesting poll, compared to the way most ask the question. Because there is this seeming contradiction. If you ask whether Americans want to send aid to Ukraine, they say yes. If you ask whether Americans think we need negotiations for a peaceful settlement, they say yes. That poll sound right to me, based on lots and lots of polls on Ukraine. I think most Americans agree with Burns (and Biden) that we need to keep arming Ukraine. So, as Burns says, Ukraine "can regain the offensive initiative by early next year and negotiate from a position of greater strength." Those poll numbers sound right. There's some wing of militarists who think we should arm Ukraine forever, or jump in the fight ourselves. Maybe 1 in 5 Americans would go for that, the poll suggests. Maybe 1 in 4 or even 1 in 3 Americans just want to cut Ukraine off and leave them to the genocidal sadist. Trump is one of them. Why? I guess it makes America Great Again. And then there's this huge center that wants to aid Ukraine's defense, but try to end the war through negotiations. It's a form of peace through strength. Burns and Biden are centrists. They obviously have read the polls. Trump is saying we should not give Ukraine a penny, I guess. Cut 'em off. Be nice to Putin. I think that makes him look weak, and extreme. If Vlad ramps up the genocidal sadism, it will make Trump look even weaker. And then there is this, from one of Trump's potential running mates: Quote Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., said Sunday that President Vladimir Putin of Russia was a “murderous dictator” responsible for the death of opposition leader Alexei Navalny and that “we need strong leadership coming from America that actually pushes back against Russia and other dictators.” Huh? And we punish the murderous dictator by NOT sending the military aid Ukraine desperately needs, so the genocidal monster can kill more Ukrainian babies? I am pretty sure this will hurt Republicans. They'll look both weak, and hypocritical. The question it raises is whose cock are these weak Republicans sucking? Trump's cock? Putin's cock? Both cocks? Ugh! Marc in Calif 1 Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 12 Author Members Posted March 12 Trump's plan to end the Ukraine war is to totally cut off funding, says Putin's closest EU ally Quote Trump "will not give a penny" more to Ukraine if he becomes president, Hungary's prime minister said. This is going to hurt Trump. The cross tabs of this new poll I referred to in the prior post are worth taking a look at. People have a lot of conflicted feelings about both wars going on right now. I for sure do. This poll helps illuminate how people feel about Ukraine. Here's the most informative question, which I will quote verbatim (in italics): Q: Since Russia invaded Ukraine in early 2022, the United States has responded in part by allocating $113 billion to support Ukraine’s war effort. Which of the following best aligns with what you think the U.S. should be doing in terms of financial aid to the Ukrainian war effort? Continue providing financial aid with specific conditions requiring diplomatic progress (i.e., negotiations to reach a settlement to the conflict) 48 % Stop providing financial aid altogether 30 % Continue providing financial aid without any conditions attached 22 % I think another question helps illuminate that. When asked how the war will end, the answers are all over the map. A plurality of 41 % say, "Dunno." 38 % say through a negotiated settlement. 12 % say Russia will win militarily. 11 % say Ukraine will win militarily. So there is huge uncertainty, but negotiations seem like the best road to peace. Most people I know feel this way. But they also feel like we have to keep giving Ukraine military aid. Trump is in trouble. One reason to question both his mental health and his political judgment is that he is saying extreme, and extremely unpopular, things. He should know that. And if he doesn't, there's a problem. No surprise, Republicans are most likely to support stopping financial aid. But that's 48 % of Republicans. So we're watching this movie right now. Republicans have to tie themselves in knots explaining how we stand up to Putin and support Ukraine by cutting them off. This is going to make Republicans looks weak. 54 % of Democrats and 51 % of Independents support the first choice, continuing aid while promoting diplomacy. 29 % of Democrats and 21 % of Independents support continuing aid with no strings attached. So, basically, about 3 in 4 Democrats and Independents support continuing military aid while seeking a negotiated solution. Trump's "not a penny more" and "Putin can do whatever he wants" to our allies is way, way, way out of touch. It almost seems too good to be true that both Trump and Biden both have a very serious genocide problem in their own parties. This is not the US that was eager to go on offense with Iraq and their WMD. It is not even the America that felt it had to go on defense in Afghanistan after an unprecedented brutal attack on the homeland. "Genocide Joe" is now at serious risk of losing Michigan, and the Presidency, thanks to being complicit in Bibi The Butcher's genocide. Joe has gotten the memo. He is starting to talk about conditional aid to Israel. The rift between Bibi and Genocide Joe will grow. Quickly. "Genocide Don" will have that problem soon. If he's honest, he'll say Bibi - like Vlad - can do whatever the hell he wants. That won't sit well with Independents. The bigger genocide problem for Trump, in the GOP, is his willingness to cut Ukraine off, and reward Putin's genocide. That's how lots of old school Republicans will see it. The part that seems to be too good to be true is that both parties are saying to their nominee: "Give peace a chance." That's not a surprise for left wingers. This is NOT my World War II veteran Dad's Republican Party. I hope they stay this way. I kind of like it. That said, I'll end with a pop quiz. Which of these ones is not like the other: 1) Vladimir Putin. 2) Hamas 3) Bibi Netanyahu 4) John Lennon. Call me lefty. One wanted to give peace a chance. The other three have spent their whole time in power giving genocide a chance. America may have changed for now. But the world is still the same. Quote
Moses Posted March 12 Posted March 12 6 hours ago, stevenkesslar said: Your genocidal sadist killed a baby boy in Mariupol. Your best friend Netanyahu killed 10 times more children in Gaza in 2 weeks than died in Ukraine during 2 years of war US is sponsor of wars... Quote
Members stevenkesslar Posted March 12 Author Members Posted March 12 1 minute ago, Moses said: You best friend Netanyahu killed 10 times more just in 2 weeks in Gaza, than kids died in Ukraine in 2 years... US is sponsor of wars... Bibi the Butcher? He's not my best friend. He's the genocide dude. I thought Bibi and Vlad were best friends. They are both into genocide, after all. Sadists of a feather flock together. There's at least tens of thousands of women and children killed thanks to each of the genocidal sadists. What Bibi is doing in Gaza is in the ballpark of what your genocidal sadist did in Mariupol. And about ask quickly. Quote
